Opinions on the Soviet Union

[EebulFatMan]

I grew up in the USSR, I was, and still am patriotic of the Soviet Union. I served in the army until the 1980's, and the day it was announced the Union was dissolved, was one of the most upsetting days of my life. I recall being in tears hearing the news, I was in disbelief the Soviet Union could collapse. Things weren't 100% perfect, but they were 100% better than things are today. Life was hard, but when is it not? With time, the Soviet Union would have returned to a better time. I can remember as a child, people being happier than ever, and crying when Stalin died. He was strict, but a great leader.

Usure?

GDP of USSR and states after USSR.

Anyway, it was empire whose collapse came 69 years late.

Notice how that the graph only goes up to 2007, leaving out the current economic crisis. I wonder what the effects were on Russia and its people.

Besides, the improvement at the end is probably due to oil and gas, which is dominated by the state owned companies nowadays.

[EebulFatMan]

The USSR did succeed at several things. First and foremost, the Bolsheviks did drag Russia fully into the 20th century with modern technology, heavy-duty industry, and extensive military production, which allowed the USSR to - at great cost in human lives - become one of the most important countries on the face of the earth after WWII. Before the revolution, Russia was a third-rate power; after WWII, it was one of two global superpowers.

Second, it did pretty well at pushing the technological frontier, especially for a country that was, ultimately, not that rich. Mind, this technological frontier was pushed the most in areas with specific military application.

Several Problems:

• Czarist Russia was by no means a 'Third Rate' power, and its economic disparity relative to the west was rapidly diminishing - it's worth noting that the rapid expansion of the Russian railway network gave the German high command sleepless nights, and that Russia moved to domestic production for modern warships et al before WW1. There's very good reasons a number of authors have noted that the Soviets' excessive industrialisation, particularly combined with its purges of engineers and commissar- rather than engineer-led projects led to Russia developing significantly more slowly and with far greater teething problems than it'd have under the czars, judging by sheer extrapolation.
• Pre-Soviet Russia was by no means not innovative in the fields of science and technology. Mendelejev should be known, I imagine. Russia's pre- and during WW1 aviation industry was nothing to sneeze at, either, and its engineers in the field of firearms were, frankly, the most capable of the entire pre/ during war era. Soviet successes here aren't a new development, they're merely a continuation of Russia's traditions in these areas.

Problem: a lot of Czarist Russia's stuff was financed by grain exports. What were they going to do when the price of grain collapsed following WWI?

Sure the Soviet Union could have been a LOT more efficient. But the Czarist regime was so incompetent in comparison that they would probably have bungled everything anyway.

[New Heathera]

I can remember as a child, people being happier than ever, and crying when Stalin died. He was strict, but a great leader.

A great leader? It seems even his own people feared him more than admired him. I read reports of soviet pilots prefering to die by German hands over Soviet firing squads if they didn't fight. But a native knows his own country's people better than an observer I guess.

[Dokuritsu Nippon]

I mean, then we wouldn't have all these revisionist "lets-all-sing-kum-ba-ya-and-magically-bring-about-socialism-violence-is-bad-mkay-the-capitalists-will-step-down-peacefully-if-we-smile-enough-and-ask-politely-enough" capuccino sipping, white, middle-class, "hippy" pseudo-socialists idolizing him and hindering the efforts of those who actually want to fight the imperialist system.

And I'm saying this as a former ISO member (for about a year), for reference. So I've seen far, far more than enough of the type for my liking...

Yeah, Trotsky was definitely a pacifist, with that whole ''leading the Red Army to victory against the Whites'' thing.

Yeah, well, try telling that (probably the only good thing the man ever did, and mostly for opportunist ends), to modern trots...

[Magmia]

I think the USSR was one of the greatest evils and disapointments in human history

[New Heathera]

I think the USSR was one of the greatest evils and disapointments in human history

Greater than Nazi Germany? At least the USSR didn't use prisoners as raw materials and medical tests subjects.

[Dokuritsu Nippon]

Stalin was the one who stopped the revolution with his stupid "Socialism in one-country" crap. Trotsky advocated permanent revolution which was a much better idea for bringing about worker's revolutions.

"Socialism in one country", briefly speaking, was the idea that, as different countries have different material conditions, each should formulate a strategy for their own revolution in their own way. Not "there should only be one socialist nation" (as empirically, Stalin assisted revolutions in other nations), simply that the differing material conditions in different nations necessitated different methodologies of revolution, and thus a bloated, centralized "world communist revolution" that the trots advocated, simply wouldn't work.

And as for "permanent revolution", that was just Trotsky twisting Marx's words (initially referring to "piggy-backing" off capitalist revolutions and forcing them into socialist ones; NOT opposing an existing socialist revolution) towards his own, personal advantage, like the opportunist he was.

[Grand Britannia]

It sucked ass....

Yeah, that sums it up nicely for me.

[Foguk]

I grew up in the USSR, I was, and still am patriotic of the Soviet Union. I served in the army until the 1980's, and the day it was announced the Union was dissolved, was one of the most upsetting days of my life. I recall being in tears hearing the news, I was in disbelief the Soviet Union could collapse. Things weren't 100% perfect, but they were 100% better than things are today. Life was hard, but when is it not? With time, the Soviet Union would have returned to a better time. I can remember as a child, people being happier than ever, and crying when Stalin died. He was strict, but a great leader.

I'm no Russian history expert, but the time of the Soviet Union was the most powerful Russia ever was. It is a major achievement, being able to challenge america for global power when considering that Russia is not a land blessed with resources and what not.

The Soviets gave Russians what they deserved: Jobs, Food, Shelter, Security, Education, Entertainment, and most importantly: A country they could be proud to stand for.

Sure, Soviet Russia was not at the same level as the US at the time. But they did the best for what they could, and considering how well endowed the russian lands are, I think they did a damn fine job.

Stalin was a great leader. He had flaws, but he was still a great leader given the circumstances. The same goes for Lenin.

I hate Putin.

[Magmia]

I think the USSR was one of the greatest evils and disapointments in human history

Greater than Nazi Germany? At least the USSR didn't use prisoners as raw materials and medical tests subjects.

I said ONE of the greatest, not THE

[Zendabujii]

russia was not communist it was a whole new form of economic control called Leninism. And Leninism in my opinion is a capitalist system of not one citizen taking advantage of another citizen, but the government taking advantage of it's own citizens. So no Idont like it. But I do think russia would be a utopia and win my favor, if Leon, not Stalien was to take power. He truly cared for and fight for the people. Leon was a true marxist! And I would be proud to call him a friend. P.S. I hate when people attack socialism and Communism with the ignorant and bias falsehoods that Hitler and Stalin where socialist / Communist when really they weren't. And saying that socialism and communism are the same. Sometimes I really hate liberaltarians and conservatives for causing and spreading this ignorance to the american people.

[Sudetanland]

In Soviet Russia, opinions are on you!

[Silver Luna Enchantment]

Was founded under grand ideologies, but became a terrible place because of Stalin.

[Tropical Isles]

it is on my list of least-favorite countries with the reason being cold war reasons.

[Trotskylvania]

You do realise that Trotsky was an active Socialist?

Historically, he was an active Menshevik (the faction that at one point was considering joining the White Russians in fighting the Bolsheviks), who only joined the Bolsheviks after it was absolutely apparent that the latter were going to come out on top, like an opportunist scumbag. The Menshevik ideology favored the petty-bourgeois, essentially on the same "spectrum" as fascism and social democracy.

He wasnt gona sit by and sing Kum by ya or anything he was about bringing the revolution to other countries and supporting the various different struggling revolutionaty and worker groups to topple the Bougeoise system particularly in europe particularly in Germany and France because they almost became communist at times in their history and had a very large left feeling majority in its people and also becuase he and al ot of others in the party felt that one communist state couldnt last on its own. Stalin on the other hand was content to sit by and work on the USSR and do nothing to help the other communist movements around the world.

Well, last I checked, Stalin, for all his supposed faults, assisted successful revolutions in China, Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, etc.

Trotsky, on the other hand, was more than happy to feed intel to the CIA, while living in his mansion in Mexico, necessitating what happened as a matter of security.

Your reading of history is terrible.

Trotsky was a Menshevik during the period when they were the minority in the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party. He left after they became the majority faction, becoming more aligned with the Bolsheviks before the tide of 1917 swung that direction.

Furthermore, Trotsky had no contact with the American national security state. As a matter of fact, the CIA wasn't founded until 7 years after his death. In fact, when forced by the House UnAmerican Activities Committee to testify before congress on the Communist threat, he planned instead to turn the hearing into a three ring circus, and make a call for proletarian revolution.

The only people who cooperated with the national security state were the Communists during the 30s and the period during and just after world war 2. They were the ones who ratted out Trotskyist groups, and gleefully supported their violent suppression under the Smith Act until the knives were turned on them.

[The Multiversal Species Alliance]

Since we're talking about the USSR, I'll just leave this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8

[Der Landstreicher]

My friend, despite being born and raised in America, supports the USSR and wishes it never collapsed so he could have moved there.

Well, more than likely your ignorant friend is just trying to be a "rebel."

[The Multiversal Species Alliance]

I was wondering, what do you all think about it?

Well, I'm a Socialist and I dislike the USSR, it made the lives of it's people infinitely worse than Tsarist Russia, especially under Stalin, yes people were hungry, but, they weren't being executed by secret police.

[Tahar Joblis]

Eesh, so many self-hating, uncle tom "socialists" here.

While I'll grant some latitude to those living in the West, with all the collective psyche baggage of the Red Scare and McCarthyism still to deal with, I'd posit that it's impossible to be a genuine Marxist socialist and simultaneously oppose those nations that made the strongest stand in fighting the imperialist (last stage of capitalism) powers in the world. Unfortunately, many, particularly in the West, simply view "socialism" as some trendy, lovey-dovey, lets-all-sing-around-the-campfire-and-sing-kum-ba-ya castrated bullshit. "If we're just nice enough to the capitalist oppressors, they'll realize they're wrong and step down without a fight." "Socialism has to be voted into power." No real understanding of socialist theory.

The facts are, Lenin was an absolutely brilliant man, one of the greatest in all of mankind's history; both in synthesizing Marxism ideology for the imperialist stage of capitalism, and for his work in organizing and leading the Revolution to victory. Stalin too was a great man, defeating the deplorable fascist system, leading his people and their Revolution to honor and victory.

And yes, unlike these hippy, half-assed, capucinno-sipping, middle-class, white, college (dropout) students self-designating themselves as "socialists", Lenin and Stalin had balls. They did what was necessary. They defeated those elements that would bring back the slavery of the capitalist system. They did what it took to defend the Revolution. And for that, they deserve all the more honor.

Lenin was a brilliant tactician when it came to orchestrating a coup. He had no idea how to run a country, just how to hold onto power.

Stalin didn't have the charisma to lead a revolution from scratch, but by golly, he knew how to keep himself in power.

And let's not forget that Lenin's coup was actually carried out against a provisional government largely controlled by socialist parties. Who stood to be elected into a majority in Russia's first democratic elections if the Bolsheviks hadn't pulled off their coup. The three main parties in Russia at the time were the Socialist-Revolutionary party, Kadets, and Mensheviks.

Socialism was going to be voted into power, phased in incrementally, steadily, and with popular backing; and then the Bolsheviks went and, in the grand context of history, snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory by imposing an autocratic ogilarchy with pretensions of socialism.

If you are truly understanding of Marxist theory, you understand that Marx describes a historical dialectic with distinct and necessary phases; and Russia was not ready for what the Bolsheviks tried to impose on it. Marx would have predicted dire consequences from such an attempt; and history proves that such a prediction would be correct.

In actual reality, we can look at places like Sweden and see a peaceful dialectical progression that tracks exactly what Marx predicted; without, even, any violent revolutions. From absolute monarchy to constitutional monarchy; and thence to industrialization, and from industrialization to democracy, and from democracy slowly towards functioning socialism. Sweden did so precisely by avoiding excesses, and implementing reform slowly and pragmatically; today, while Sweden is not communist, the Swede of today lives a life much closer to what Marx dreamed about than the Soviet citizen of any era of the USSR.

Do you know who else "had balls?" George W. Bush. Adolf Hitler. Ronald Reagan. Being bold and undertaking monumentally stupid actions detrimental to your own country as well as the world at large does not make you a great man; it makes you a great idiot and a great villain.

[Naked Greed]

russia was not communist it was a whole new form of economic control called Leninism. And Leninism in my opinion is a capitalist system of not one citizen taking advantage of another citizen, but the government taking advantage of it's own citizens.

That's called socialism.

[Maineiacs]

My opinion of the Soviet Union is that it no longer exists.

[Warhosta]

My opinion on the Soviet Union is that I'm glad it no longer exists.

[Imperial British Empire]

I don't like the Unions logo or this North-Korean style of presentation that the soviets introduced nor the fact they enforced there influence on the Ukraine etc.. (which can still be seen today) But to say it was an evil empire is extreme, Stalin was evil. On the whole what country hasn't committed atrocities against its or other people. The people let the soviets take over don't get this idea that Democracy is great because it isn't and it doesn't work. Force isn't always a bad thing we need to forget about "Human Rights" because we shouldn't have them they are ruining our world, people need to hire "Lighting Technicians" to put in a light bulb instead of a Janitor doing it, despite the fact they put lights in at home. The soviets accepted the idea of common sense, I feel russia and the soviets were a cold regime but russia is always cold isn't it? I neither like nor dislike it. It would've been acceptable to stay but I don't like the ideology of communism.

[Maineiacs]

My opinion on the Soviet Union is that I'm glad it no longer exists.

This too.

[Ovisterra]

russia was not communist it was a whole new form of economic control called Leninism. And Leninism in my opinion is a capitalist system of not one citizen taking advantage of another citizen, but the government taking advantage of it's own citizens.

That's called socialism.

-Implying all socialist governments have to take advantage of their citizens to be socialist