Opinions on the Soviet Union

[Dokuritsu Nippon]

The only tragedy with Trotsky is that the ice pick came several decades too late...

pray tell?

I mean, then we wouldn't have all these revisionist "lets-all-sing-kum-ba-ya-and-magically-bring-about-socialism-violence-is-bad-mkay-the-capitalists-will-step-down-peacefully-if-we-smile-enough-and-ask-politely-enough" capuccino sipping, white, middle-class, "hippy" pseudo-socialists idolizing him and hindering the efforts of those who actually want to fight the imperialist system.

And I'm saying this as a former ISO member (for about a year), for reference. So I've seen far, far more than enough of the type for my liking...

[Samuraikoku]

Ludmilla Drago: "You have this belief that you are better than us. You have this belief that this country is so very good and we are so very bad. You have this belief that you are so fair and we are so very cruel."
Nicoli Koloff: "It's all lies and false propaganda to support this antagonistic and violent government."
Paulie: "Whoa. Violent? Hey, we don't keep our people behind a wall with machine guns."
Nicoli Koloff: "Who are you?"
Paulie: "Who am I? I'm the unsilent majority, bigmouth."

Rocky IV

I side with Paulie.

[The Huskar Social Union]

pray tell?

I mean, then we wouldn't have all these revisionist "lets-all-sing-kum-ba-ya-and-magically-bring-about-socialism-violence-is-bad-mkay-the-capitalists-will-step-down-peacefully-if-we-smile-enough-and-ask-politely-enough" capuccino sipping, white, middle-class, "hippy" pseudo-socialists idolizing him and hindering the efforts of those who actually want to fight the imperialist system.

And I'm saying this as a former ISO member (for about a year), for reference. So I've seen far, far more than enough of the type for my liking...

You do realise that Trotsky was an active Socialist? He wasnt gona sit by and sing Kum by ya or anything he was about bringing the revolution to other countries and supporting the various different struggling revolutionaty and worker groups to topple the Bougeoise system particularly in europe particularly in Germany and France because they almost became communist at times in their history and had a very large left feeling majority in its people and also becuase he and al ot of others in the party felt that one communist state couldnt last on its own. Stalin on the other hand was content to sit by and work on the USSR and do nothing to help the other communist movements around the world.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Ludmilla Drago: "You have this belief that you are better than us. You have this belief that this country is so very good and we are so very bad. You have this belief that you are so fair and we are so very cruel."
Nicoli Koloff: "It's all lies and false propaganda to support this antagonistic and violent government."
Paulie: "Whoa. Violent? Hey, we don't keep our people behind a wall with machine guns."
Nicoli Koloff: "Who are you?"
Paulie: "Who am I? I'm the unsilent majority, bigmouth."

Rocky IV

I side with Paulie.

I get what you mean but a scene from rocky 4?

[Samuraikoku]

I get what you mean but a scene from rocky 4?

If you got what I meant, then the reference was correct enough.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I get what you mean but a scene from rocky 4?

If you got what I meant, then the reference was correct enough.

Yeah was a bit silly eh.

[Cobreiny]

A former nation that didn't really have a budget, with only two expenditures: Heavy Industry and Military. With of course 'law' enforcement as there other expenditure.

[Midnight Science Fiction Feature]

pray tell?

I mean, then we wouldn't have all these revisionist "lets-all-sing-kum-ba-ya-and-magically-bring-about-socialism-violence-is-bad-mkay-the-capitalists-will-step-down-peacefully-if-we-smile-enough-and-ask-politely-enough" capuccino sipping, white, middle-class, "hippy" pseudo-socialists idolizing him and hindering the efforts of those who actually want to fight the imperialist system.

And I'm saying this as a former ISO member (for about a year), for reference. So I've seen far, far more than enough of the type for my liking...

Yeah, Trotsky was definitely a pacifist, with that whole ''leading the Red Army to victory against the Whites'' thing.

[Domicilium Sapientiae]

Since you don't specify politics or government, I won't trouble with them. Politics schmolitics.

I met Russians as a child, even before the Berlin wall came down, at the height of the Cold War. I remember thinking they were just like me. They were nice people, and we became great friends.

I've met Russians more recently, as an adult. Every single one of them is nice, intelligent, understanding, helpful, you just can't run out of superlatives for these people. And they love to read. They're so tickled pink to make you feel welcome, always. I can't think of one I wouldn't value as a friend to the end of my days.

I'm disappointed we're not allies today. Reagan & Gorbechev broke down a lot of barriers, set the whole thing up, it was perfect. Then the USSR accepted democracy, dissolved, its economy crashed, and America just... let it happen. We would have been amazing allies. Imagine the tourism, easy travel to a place with nice people, gorgeous countryside... Instead we sold democracy to them, then treated them like a conquered enemy when it imploded their economy.

America. Dropped. The ball.

As for a regime which killed people within its own borders and attempted to stamp out their culture many decades ago, clearly we can point that finger because events like the Trail of Tears never occurred in America's history. >_>

[Vetalia]

I'm disappointed we're not allies today. Reagan & Gorbechev broke down a lot of barriers, set the whole thing up, it was perfect. Then the USSR accepted democracy, dissolved, its economy crashed, and America just... let it happen. We would have been amazing allies. Imagine the tourism, easy travel to a place with nice people, gorgeous countryside... Instead we sold democracy to them, then treated them like a conquered enemy when it imploded their economy.

America. Dropped. The ball.

The problem is, what could we have done? The Soviet system was deteriorating beyond the point of recovery and Gorbachev's reforms were too late and too top-down to produce the kind of changes we've seen in China.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Glad it's gone.

[Blessed Proloterian Isle]

Such good dreams and such good ideas... Such a disaster.

[Chinese Regions]

Yeah, I guess it would have been better to become a Japanese protectorate or a Chinese province instead of staying an independent country. Suuuuure.

Its not that shocking -_- Tengriism, Mongolian Shamanism, was persecuted to the point that those who practice it today simply know what has been written down. Buddhism was persecuted, with thousands of monks and nuns being killed. The Mongolian writing system was replaced in favor of a Cyrillic Alphabet due to Soviet-ties, etc. So, no, it would not have been better to be part of China, as China does the same exact thing in Inner-Mongolia to this day.

Mongols in China still uses the Mongolian script for their language.

[New Acardia]

Lenin and Trostky started out with hopes and dreams for an amazing nation; then reality and Josef Stalin came along.

Lenin and Trostky were just as EVIL as Stalin was

[Naked Greed]

Evil, definitely. Destructive, perhaps not as much as you may think. The Soviet Union industrialized and modernized its constituent republics like no regime before it had. It had a whole load of crimes against humanity, but quite a number of achievements as well.

It's not like book-keeping, the good stuff doesn't balance out the bad stuff, especially when the bad stuff includes a huge system of slave labour camps, secret policemen and informers in every place of work, imperialism etc. Even the less major human rights violations - needing a passport to travel within your own country, having to get permission off your boss to get married etc - can you imagine what growing up in a system like that would do to you? The way it would limit your mental horizons and stunt your dreams? No wonder alcoholism was such a problem.

Socialist governments are able to focus enormous resources on a small number of things, but I suspect that industrialisation would have occurred under practically any kind of regime (short of a Khemer Rouge type government).

[Almire]

Lenin and Trostky started out with hopes and dreams for an amazing nation; then reality and Josef Stalin came along.

Lenin and Trostky were just as EVIL as Stalin was

Uh, no.

Stalin's wish was a dictatorship that was nominally 'communist' but really just the same as fascism. Lenin and Trostky both wanted real communism, and many people (back then) liked Lenin's government.

[New Acardia]

Lenin and Trostky were just as EVIL as Stalin was

Uh, no.

Stalin's wish was a dictatorship that was nominally 'communist' but really just the same as fascism. Lenin and Trostky both wanted real communism, and many people (back then) liked Lenin's government.

All Stalin did was continued on the path that Lenin created and Trostky was a wannabe tyrant. Who lost the power struggle to Stalin, And many people (Often the same ones who liked Lenin's government) liked Hitler's government as well. In short all four men were evil monsters.

[Chestaan]

pray tell?

I mean, then we wouldn't have all these revisionist "lets-all-sing-kum-ba-ya-and-magically-bring-about-socialism-violence-is-bad-mkay-the-capitalists-will-step-down-peacefully-if-we-smile-enough-and-ask-politely-enough" capuccino sipping, white, middle-class, "hippy" pseudo-socialists idolizing him and hindering the efforts of those who actually want to fight the imperialist system.

And I'm saying this as a former ISO member (for about a year), for reference. So I've seen far, far more than enough of the type for my liking...

Stalin was the one who stopped the revolution with his stupid "Socialism in one-country" crap. Trotsky advocated permanent revolution which was a much better idea for bringing about worker's revolutions.

[Chinese Regions]

pray tell?

I mean, then we wouldn't have all these revisionist "lets-all-sing-kum-ba-ya-and-magically-bring-about-socialism-violence-is-bad-mkay-the-capitalists-will-step-down-peacefully-if-we-smile-enough-and-ask-politely-enough" capuccino sipping, white, middle-class, "hippy" pseudo-socialists idolizing him and hindering the efforts of those who actually want to fight the imperialist system.

And I'm saying this as a former ISO member (for about a year), for reference. So I've seen far, far more than enough of the type for my liking...

Being peaceful is better than being a monster.

[Trotskylvania]

I mean, then we wouldn't have all these revisionist "lets-all-sing-kum-ba-ya-and-magically-bring-about-socialism-violence-is-bad-mkay-the-capitalists-will-step-down-peacefully-if-we-smile-enough-and-ask-politely-enough" capuccino sipping, white, middle-class, "hippy" pseudo-socialists idolizing him and hindering the efforts of those who actually want to fight the imperialist system.

And I'm saying this as a former ISO member (for about a year), for reference. So I've seen far, far more than enough of the type for my liking...

Stalin was the one who stopped the revolution with his stupid "Socialism in one-country" crap. Trotsky advocated permanent revolution which was a much better idea for bringing about worker's revolutions.

A stance which would have been collective suicide for the Bolsheviks, and probably for most revolutionary movements.

[New England and The Maritimes]

Stalin was the one who stopped the revolution with his stupid "Socialism in one-country" crap. Trotsky advocated permanent revolution which was a much better idea for bringing about worker's revolutions.

A stance which would have been collective suicide for the Bolsheviks, and probably for most revolutionary movements.

Not that Lenin and Stalin's "Red Fascism" was good for anyone but the party elite, anyway.

[Samuraikoku]

If you got what I meant, then the reference was correct enough.

Yeah was a bit silly eh.

Obviously not if you understood it.

[Dokuritsu Nippon]

You do realise that Trotsky was an active Socialist?

Historically, he was an active Menshevik (the faction that at one point was considering joining the White Russians in fighting the Bolsheviks), who only joined the Bolsheviks after it was absolutely apparent that the latter were going to come out on top, like an opportunist scumbag. The Menshevik ideology favored the petty-bourgeois, essentially on the same "spectrum" as fascism and social democracy.

He wasnt gona sit by and sing Kum by ya or anything he was about bringing the revolution to other countries and supporting the various different struggling revolutionaty and worker groups to topple the Bougeoise system particularly in europe particularly in Germany and France because they almost became communist at times in their history and had a very large left feeling majority in its people and also becuase he and al ot of others in the party felt that one communist state couldnt last on its own. Stalin on the other hand was content to sit by and work on the USSR and do nothing to help the other communist movements around the world.

Well, last I checked, Stalin, for all his supposed faults, assisted successful revolutions in China, Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cuba, etc.

Trotsky, on the other hand, was more than happy to feed intel to the CIA, while living in his mansion in Mexico, necessitating what happened as a matter of security.

[Domicilium Sapientiae]

The problem is, what could we have done? The Soviet system was deteriorating beyond the point of recovery and Gorbachev's reforms were too late and too top-down to produce the kind of changes we've seen in China.

Open trade. At the time, we could have afforded it. Russia needed food. We have an abundance. Families are picking wild mushrooms to survive, for God's sake. Instead, we voted for open trade with Mexico, which... flopped.

Not to mention: tourism! "Visit the former USSR, powerhouse of the Cold War!" With their rich culture & kind, welcoming people, they'd have quickly climbed to be Germany's equal as an American tourist destination. Given the chronological distance of WWII and the then-still-recent novelty of the Cold War, they could have beaten Germany as such for several years. All those fat, consumer-mongering Americans, living on the local economy for a week or more and infusing it with the comparitively-heavy American dollar. Sure, through close contact the Russian people would have eventually realized what narcissistic, egotistical pigs we are and grown to hate us, but we do that to every country we visit eventually. Except Canada, and only because they're SOOO lenient. (True story: before Obama became president, about 30% of American travelers claimed to be Canadian so they wouldn't be hated by the locals. Now that Obama has failed as a president, they're back to pretending to be Canadians again. Foreign policy, anyone?)

Of course this would come at the price of neglecting our home economy, slightly increasing the national debt, but who's really made an effort to fix the deficit? Who's made a difference? The last chance we had was Ross Perot, who wouldn't have exactly led us, but might have put us in the black, and the American people were too concerned with their own needs to vote a 3rd party candidate into office. We will always be bipartisan and the deficit will never get fixed. Two evils that, deep down, the world recognizes but no one wants to admit. When will we face facts?

Hell, we can open tourism RIGHT NOW with Russia and the novelty will infuse their economy with millions of American dollars. Tho our economy can't handle that anymore.

[Soviet Socialist Republics-]

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