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Free healthcare.

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Bleckonia
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Founded: Jun 12, 2011
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Postby Bleckonia » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:30 pm

Raeyh wrote:
Bleckonia wrote:
So if you have a heart attack, you don't have the right to get immediate treatment?


EMS won't charge you until after the operation.


And what happens if you can't afford the NECESSARY operation to save your life? So it should cost money to be able to have the right to live?
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The Sovietyeto
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Postby The Sovietyeto » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:31 pm

Raeyh wrote:
Numer wrote:
How will the homeless ever become "not homeless" and self-sufficient if we give them everything for free?


It's hard to get a job when you are suffering from goiter.

Why get a job at all if you have free stuff? They probably were homeless because they did somthing. Maybe did somthing stupid, or illegal, or didn't study in school. This is a sad reality. But, we can't stop it. I don't want to pay for a person who isn't going to even try to prop themselves up.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:32 pm

Raeyh wrote:Healthcare should be given to the homeless for free and everyone else should pay. If you can afford a house, you can afford your own healthcare insurance.

What if you can afford a house but only just?


Numer wrote:
Raeyh wrote:Healthcare should be given to the homeless for free and everyone else should pay. If you can afford a house, you can afford your own healthcare insurance.


How will the homeless ever become "not homeless" and self-sufficient if we give them everything for free?

Give them a house, and bingo, they're no longer homeless.

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Souseiseki
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Postby Souseiseki » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:33 pm

Yes.
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Avenio
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Postby Avenio » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:33 pm

Capitalist Running Dogs wrote:
Khadgar wrote:There shouldn't be an industry to profit off the misery of others. Healthcare should be a basic right.


Healthcare is not a right.


In a lot of places, it practically is, you know.

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Tlaceceyaya
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Postby Tlaceceyaya » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:33 pm

The Sovietyeto wrote:
Raeyh wrote:
It's hard to get a job when you are suffering from goiter.

Why get a job at all if you have free stuff? They probably were homeless because they did somthing. Maybe did somthing stupid, or illegal, or didn't study in school. This is a sad reality. But, we can't stop it. I don't want to pay for a person who isn't going to even try to prop themselves up.

Or maybe they were homeless because their parents were also poor and they weren't able to stay in school because they had to work to feed their family. Or maybe they have an illness. Maybe they were just unlucky.
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I am a market socialist, atheist, more to come maybe at some point
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:34 pm

Avenio wrote:
Capitalist Running Dogs wrote:
Healthcare is not a right.


In a lot of places, it practically is, you know.

It's the new American Exceptionalism, we can't do things other countries are perfectly capable of doing.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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The Sovietyeto
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Postby The Sovietyeto » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:34 pm

Tlaceceyaya wrote:
The Sovietyeto wrote:Why get a job at all if you have free stuff? They probably were homeless because they did somthing. Maybe did somthing stupid, or illegal, or didn't study in school. This is a sad reality. But, we can't stop it. I don't want to pay for a person who isn't going to even try to prop themselves up.

Or maybe they were homeless because their parents were also poor and they weren't able to stay in school because they had to work to feed their family. Or maybe they have an illness. Maybe they were just unlucky.

The world needs ditch diggers. They can get a job if they look.

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No-Ghost Zone
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Postby No-Ghost Zone » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:35 pm

There is no thing like free healthcare, the taxes is a bill for "customers."
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Amland
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Postby Amland » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:35 pm

It's been free in the UK for a very, very long time. But for the countries without it, definitely.
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Numer
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Postby Numer » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:35 pm

The Sovietyeto wrote:
Raeyh wrote:
It's hard to get a job when you are suffering from goiter.

Why get a job at all if you have free stuff? They probably were homeless because they did somthing. Maybe did somthing stupid, or illegal, or didn't study in school. This is a sad reality. But, we can't stop it. I don't want to pay for a person who isn't going to even try to prop themselves up.


I agree completely.
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Raeyh
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Postby Raeyh » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:36 pm

Bleckonia wrote:
Raeyh wrote:
EMS won't charge you until after the operation.


And what happens if you can't afford the NECESSARY operation to save your life? So it should cost money to be able to have the right to live?


Like I said, they perform the operation and then you owe a debt to them. If you can't pay it off, declare bankruptcy like anyone else who is in debt.

Why get a job at all if you have free stuff? They probably were homeless because they did somthing. Maybe did somthing stupid, or illegal, or didn't study in school. This is a sad reality. But, we can't stop it. I don't want to pay for a person who isn't going to even try to prop themselves up.


People aren't motivated to work from getting stuff. If somebody doesn't want to work, no carrot/stick combination will move them to work. Likewise, if someone wants to work, they will work even in the most deplorable conditions with little to no salary.

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DaWoad
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Postby DaWoad » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:36 pm

The Sovietyeto wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:Or maybe they were homeless because their parents were also poor and they weren't able to stay in school because they had to work to feed their family. Or maybe they have an illness. Maybe they were just unlucky.

The world needs ditch diggers. They can get a job if they look.

really? Who's going to hire someone who cannot provide a home address? Who doesn't have a resume and who may be mentally and/or physically unwell?
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Taneristan
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Founded: May 15, 2012
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Postby Taneristan » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:36 pm

Of course healthcare must be provided by government...Healthcare is a basic right which should not be let to market.

As we know due to asymmetric information , healthcare cannot be provided efficiently by the market alone therefore it is a market failure.I think the only way out of all the non-essential treatments etc. government should not let private sector to be involved in healthcare and provide it to everyone free of charge.

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Tlaceceyaya
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tlaceceyaya » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:37 pm

The Sovietyeto wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:Or maybe they were homeless because their parents were also poor and they weren't able to stay in school because they had to work to feed their family. Or maybe they have an illness. Maybe they were just unlucky.

The world needs ditch diggers. They can get a job if they look.

Maybe they can't look because they're too busy looking for food. They can't consider the long term because if they abandon the short term, they will starve. Or maybe no one will hire them. Maybe they can't find a job. Maybe they have a disability. Just envision yourself as a homeless person with limited education and constant hunger.
Economic Left/Right -9.75, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -8.87
Also, Bonobos.
I am a market socialist, atheist, more to come maybe at some point
Dimitri Tsafendas wrote:You are guilty not only when you commit a crime, but also when you do nothing to prevent it when you have the chance.

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Souseiseki
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:37 pm

The Sovietyeto wrote:Why get a job at all if you have free stuff?


Yeah man. Let's all quit our jobs and go on benefits, it's a fucking paradise.

They probably were homeless because they did somthing. Maybe did somthing stupid, or illegal, or didn't study in school. This is a sad reality. But, we can't stop it. I don't want to pay for a person who isn't going to even try to prop themselves up.


This isn't really true sorry! "isn't going to even try?" Do you have any fucking idea how the world works? If I was the kind of person that was comfortable with human suffering I'd hope you got completely fucked over through no fault of your own and died in the streets, your last breathe used to disown everything you just said, and repeat this process until society is rid of this cancer.

There is no thing like free healthcare, the taxes is a bill for "customers."


People who though healthcare grew on tress: 0
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

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The Sovietyeto
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Postby The Sovietyeto » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:38 pm

DaWoad wrote:
The Sovietyeto wrote:The world needs ditch diggers. They can get a job if they look.

really? Who's going to hire someone who cannot provide a home address? Who doesn't have a resume and who may be mentally and/or physically unwell?

I take it you haven't heard of non company work?

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Avenio
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Postby Avenio » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:39 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Avenio wrote:
In a lot of places, it practically is, you know.

It's the new American Exceptionalism, we can't do things other countries are perfectly capable of doing.


It's worse than that, it's practically ignoring the existence of things other countries are doing, and have been doing for 50+ years.

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Souseiseki
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Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:39 pm

The Sovietyeto wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:Or maybe they were homeless because their parents were also poor and they weren't able to stay in school because they had to work to feed their family. Or maybe they have an illness. Maybe they were just unlucky.

The world needs ditch diggers. They can get a job if they look.

Yes. Of course they can, from the magical well of infinite jobs. Of course, it's kinda hard to get a job without a home or a phone and once you get a mobile phone so you can get a fucking job LOOK AT THAT PHONE HE'S NOT POOR AT ALL.

Clearly all the unemployed just aren't looking. Why did no one come up with before? Operator, get me Obama. Now.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

signature edit: confirmation has been received. they will explicitly do it before and without asking. they can look at TGs basically whenever they want so please keep this in mind when nominating people for moderator or TGing good posters/anyone!
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Bleckonia
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Postby Bleckonia » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:40 pm

Raeyh wrote:
Bleckonia wrote:
EMS won't charge you until after the operation.


And what happens if you can't afford the NECESSARY operation to save your life? So it should cost money to be able to have the right to live?


Raeyh wrote:Like I said, they perform the operation and then you owe a debt to them. If you can't pay it off, declare bankruptcy like anyone else who is in debt.


And you have to live miserably for the rest of your life in debt because of an accident?
Last edited by Bleckonia on Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Economic Left: -9.13; Social Libertarian: -6.26
Atheist. Marxist-Leninist. Anti-consumerist.
Revolutionary Socialist Party of Fernão, Workers of the world, unite!

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DaWoad
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Postby DaWoad » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:40 pm

The Sovietyeto wrote:
DaWoad wrote:really? Who's going to hire someone who cannot provide a home address? Who doesn't have a resume and who may be mentally and/or physically unwell?

I take it you haven't heard of non company work?

non company work?
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Sucrati
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Postby Sucrati » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:42 pm

Nothing in life is free, someone is required to pay for it.

We could become like Canada where half of the cost of everything seems to be taxes to fund the system... then again, we don't like high taxes for the most part.
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