Vaccines are poison!

[Awesomeland]

You're still expecting me to believe a completely outlandish claim with no evidence whatsoever. I'm as mistrustful of very large businesses as anyone, but the whole "The ebil corporations are controlling the mainstream media and your minds!" thing is ridiculous, and I'm frankly quite insulted that you think I'd accept something like that with no evidence or other reason to believe it.

Well, it's true that "they" control mainstream media, and if they control anyone's minds, it's only because peoples' minds are very susceptible to manipulation because they are stupid. It's not as if "they" send any kind of unified message, other than maybe "buy our stuff". The fact of the matter is that if you have a message that displeases mainstream media, you're going to be stuck blogging it on the Internet, because mainstream media won't touch it. Mainstream media does not like the Internet much. Of course, a big reason your message doesn't satisfy mainstream media might be because it is utter bollocks. There's a lot of bollocks on the Internet.

[No Water No Moon]

Or, at least, so say the Pakistanis.

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-06-06/asia ... _s=PM:ASIA

As it turns out, the Pakistanis are now refusing to give their kids polio vaccines...and the number of cases is on the rise, it's gonna hit the roof and head to the moon any time now. All this is because we were using vaccines to catch Bin Laden.

Seriously.

So what does everyone else make of this? Why are people so afraid of vaccines anyway, even when their own health is in danger by not taking them?

"Pakistan is causing particular consternation among health officials who say their efforts to vaccinate more children are being frustrated by the CIA's use of a fake vaccination program last year to gather intelligence on Osama bin Laden."

Fake program for ideological ends. People no longer trust the program.

Not hard to see if you actually read the article - although your OP does seem to try to obscure the facts.

[AiliailiA]

I think part of the problem with modern society is it's hard to know what to believe as truth anymore. Anyone can say and does say pretty much whatever they want, and someone can somehow make it sound authoritative. So it's just hard for some people to trust that anything, including vaccines, really are good for them. I mean who can you really trust anymore?

When people can actively un-inform themselves to this degree, distrust so badly (the Pakistani in the article believed the vaccines were intended to cripple Muslim youth and make them infertile) or refuse to accept what's being told to their faces (some Afghan tribal elders are adamant that despite what they say in face to face meetings with ISAF officers, ISAF forces are in fact the Russians returning), I don't think you can really help people.

The US has tried to help. There is a component of charity in US foreign policy, over the last century, which should be acknowledged and applauded.

But this was just wrong. It was wrong, and President Obama let it go ahead. To say that he wasn't informed of it, is as ridiculous as to say the Reagan did not know of the Iran/Contra transfers which Congress had explicitly forbidden.

There is nothing good in this. It is horrifying. It's the military making foreign policy. We are hearing the approaching footsteps of the military junta which wlll take power when federal democracy fails.

For shame, you "starve the beast" libertarians. You are starving the children of the beast, you are starving the breast which feeds the children of the beast. The worst part of the beast, its violent arm and fist ... that will be the last part of the "beast" to die. And it will rule you, gentle libertarians who wish so sweetly for a free exchange of goods and services, in a happy la-la land where bad people get bad deals and are run out of business ... the last part of the "beast" will still be there, and it will rule you.

Reducing the civil role of government (less regulations, less tax-and-spend, less education and less welfare) will only strengthen that other role of government: to pay for, authorize, and use, the corporation of killing known as the military.

It is time to change sides, you minarchists and ancaps and petty criminals who just want the man off your back. It's time to change sides. Starve the civil government of funds, and you will live under a military dictatorship. The "beast" has a dependent child, the military which is a monster. Kill the beast, to be ruled by the monster?

Change sides, oh please, you minarchists and anarchists. You're trying to destroy what stands between us, and something horrible. The civil state ... it's not so bad, hmm? Let's work to make it better, not attack it just for being there. Look at what is behind it ... isn't that so much worse? What possible government could be worse, than to give power to those trained and equipped for destruction and death?

[SaintB]

So these vaccines were fake, as in they didn't actually work? Or were they actual vaccines but given under fake pretenses?

nah it was the hepB vaccine and they only gave the first dose.

Just the first course of it?

So in other words no actual good came of it at all? That's unforgiveable *sighs*

I really am looking for reasons to keep faith in my nation I just can't find any anymore.

[Risottia]

Or, at least, so say the Pakistanis.

And fundies of all religions, all over the world.

As if we should care of what fundies think. Screw 'em.

[Genivaria]

Well seeing as how they have been tested time and time again and seeing as how the paper on how vaccines supposedly cause autism was refuted years ago, yeah I'd say I trust them.

[Samuraikoku]

Well, I've had my share of vaccines... I'm still alive.

[Hallistar]

Because even though there is no scientific link between vaccines and autism, some people still take their subjective experiences that were most likely just coincidental and then take it as 'proof' of why they should leave their kids vulnerable to a wide host of diseases such as chickenpox, diphtheria, polio, tetanus, some of which can kill them easily.

[Laissez-Faire]

Well seeing as how they have been tested time and time again and seeing as how the paper on how vaccines supposedly cause autism was refuted years ago, yeah I'd say I trust them.

Considering that it fundamentally ignored the nature of autism (which is already an indefinite condition within much of the psychiatric community), and "science should research it more" is just the safe way of saying "I don't think this should be done." Honestly, it's almost as if they don't even read the scientific reports. Oh, wait...

[SimNewtonia III]

You're still expecting me to believe a completely outlandish claim with no evidence whatsoever. I'm as mistrustful of very large businesses as anyone, but the whole "The ebil corporations are controlling the mainstream media and your minds!" thing is ridiculous, and I'm frankly quite insulted that you think I'd accept something like that with no evidence or other reason to believe it.

Well, it's true that "they" control mainstream media, and if they control anyone's minds, it's only because peoples' minds are very susceptible to manipulation because they are stupid. It's not as if "they" send any kind of unified message, other than maybe "buy our stuff". The fact of the matter is that if you have a message that displeases mainstream media, you're going to be stuck blogging it on the Internet, because mainstream media won't touch it. Mainstream media does not like the Internet much. Of course, a big reason your message doesn't satisfy mainstream media might be because it is utter bollocks. There's a lot of bollocks on the Internet.

The anti-corporates/anti-capitalists (which I identify mmyself as being) do have a point (which is why I'm an anarchist) - corporations have waaay to much influence for things to be healthy. And there *is* a dangerous concentration of media power.

The anti-vaxxers on the other hand are full of crap. There have been so many cases, and such overwhelming evidence in support of the effectiveness of vaccination (several diseases almost knocked out, though sadly it appears human stupidity is going to prevent us knocking them out, one [smallpox, as I recall] actually eliminated) as to blow their case out of the water (although the same can be said for evolution vs creationism, which doesn't seem to stop creationists burying their heads in the sand). The new agers sadly have also fallen for this (they're commonly members of the anti-vax crowd as well as believing in untested "cures").

With that said, I have nothing but contempt for the CIA for this. This was a really, really DUMB idea, and whoever came up with this idea should be among the first against the wall when the revolution comes. Way to set back dialogue between the west and the Middle East at LEAST 5-10 years. Great job(!)

[Icamera]

So what does everyone else make of this? Why are people so afraid of vaccines anyway, even when their own health is in danger by not taking them?

Because... NEEDLES! Getting pricked by a pointy thing for a second or so is obviously worse than suffering from a life-threatening illness.

[No Water No Moon]

When people can actively un-inform themselves to this degree, distrust so badly (the Pakistani in the article believed the vaccines were intended to cripple Muslim youth and make them infertile) or refuse to accept what's being told to their faces (some Afghan tribal elders are adamant that despite what they say in face to face meetings with ISAF officers, ISAF forces are in fact the Russians returning), I don't think you can really help people.

The US has tried to help. There is a component of charity in US foreign policy, over the last century, which should be acknowledged and applauded.

But this was just wrong. It was wrong, and President Obama let it go ahead. To say that he wasn't informed of it, is as ridiculous as to say the Reagan did not know of the Iran/Contra transfers which Congress had explicitly forbidden.

There is nothing good in this. It is horrifying. It's the military making foreign policy. We are hearing the approaching footsteps of the military junta which wlll take power when federal democracy fails.

For shame, you "starve the beast" libertarians. You are starving the children of the beast, you are starving the breast which feeds the children of the beast. The worst part of the beast, its violent arm and fist ... that will be the last part of the "beast" to die. And it will rule you, gentle libertarians who wish so sweetly for a free exchange of goods and services, in a happy la-la land where bad people get bad deals and are run out of business ... the last part of the "beast" will still be there, and it will rule you.

Reducing the civil role of government (less regulations, less tax-and-spend, less education and less welfare) will only strengthen that other role of government: to pay for, authorize, and use, the corporation of killing known as the military.

It is time to change sides, you minarchists and ancaps and petty criminals who just want the man off your back. It's time to change sides. Starve the civil government of funds, and you will live under a military dictatorship. The "beast" has a dependent child, the military which is a monster. Kill the beast, to be ruled by the monster?

Change sides, oh please, you minarchists and anarchists. You're trying to destroy what stands between us, and something horrible. The civil state ... it's not so bad, hmm? Let's work to make it better, not attack it just for being there. Look at what is behind it ... isn't that so much worse? What possible government could be worse, than to give power to those trained and equipped for destruction and death?

"Me too, plus one".

[Greed and Death]

When people can actively un-inform themselves to this degree, distrust so badly (the Pakistani in the article believed the vaccines were intended to cripple Muslim youth and make them infertile) or refuse to accept what's being told to their faces (some Afghan tribal elders are adamant that despite what they say in face to face meetings with ISAF officers, ISAF forces are in fact the Russians returning), I don't think you can really help people.

The US has tried to help. There is a component of charity in US foreign policy, over the last century, which should be acknowledged and applauded.

But this was just wrong. It was wrong, and President Obama let it go ahead. To say that he wasn't informed of it, is as ridiculous as to say the Reagan did not know of the Iran/Contra transfers which Congress had explicitly forbidden.

There is nothing good in this. It is horrifying. It's the military making foreign policy. We are hearing the approaching footsteps of the military junta which wlll take power when federal democracy fails.

For shame, you "starve the beast" libertarians. You are starving the children of the beast, you are starving the breast which feeds the children of the beast. The worst part of the beast, its violent arm and fist ... that will be the last part of the "beast" to die. And it will rule you, gentle libertarians who wish so sweetly for a free exchange of goods and services, in a happy la-la land where bad people get bad deals and are run out of business ... the last part of the "beast" will still be there, and it will rule you.

what does this have to do with the libertarians, this was the democrats. If the libertarians had been in charge military/CIA would never have been in a position of power to do this. More like shame on the democrats their beast is killing children, the beast was supposed to protect [/quote]

Reducing the civil role of government (less regulations, less tax-and-spend, less education and less welfare) will only strengthen that other role of government: to pay for, authorize, and use, the corporation of killing known as the military.

It is time to change sides, you minarchists and ancaps and petty criminals who just want the man off your back. It's time to change sides. Starve the civil government of funds, and you will live under a military dictatorship. The "beast" has a dependent child, the military which is a monster. Kill the beast, to be ruled by the monster?

Change sides, oh please, you minarchists and anarchists. You're trying to destroy what stands between us, and something horrible. The civil state ... it's not so bad, hmm? Let's work to make it better, not attack it just for being there. Look at what is behind it ... isn't that so much worse? What possible government could be worse, than to give power to those trained and equipped for destruction and death?[/quote]

I hate to break it to you the civil govnerment is in the back pocket of the military, the civil govnerment is not our protector but the beast leading us to the slaughter. Rise up you foolish Republicans and Democrats your master will choke the life from us all unless we all pull back at our chains and choke him first.

[Nauroubia]

I am not afraid of vaccines but when I was little I was afraid of needles. Hmm vaccines being poison sounds like a story worthy of Alex Jones

[Wikkiwallana]

Well, there was that one study (which has since been retracted and the author discredited) that claimed that there was a link between vaccines and autism. Also, certain vaccines used some chemical made with mercury as a preservative (the one that I recall uses this is the measles vaccine; I don't know if other vaccines use this).

The "study" was refuted, and thimerosal hasn't been used in over a decade.

[Woodstead]

Well, there was that one study (which has since been retracted and the author discredited) that claimed that there was a link between vaccines and autism. Also, certain vaccines used some chemical made with mercury as a preservative (the one that I recall uses this is the measles vaccine; I don't know if other vaccines use this).

Andrew Wakefield, I believe. I could be wrong.

[Great Europa (Ancient)]

Let them rely on their god, we'll take their vaccines and see who comes out better off.

[Nansurium]

I actually argued a debate case relating to this subject a view months ago. I found strong evidence that shows a correlation between the advent and introduction of vaccines and the rise of diseases like Downs Syndrome and Autism. The fact that our FDA has only studied the short term effects of these vaccines is also disturbing. That doesn't mean that I am going to refuse to take vaccines. But I am also not going to be blindly led to believe that they are always beneficial.

[Krodania]

I actually argued a debate case relating to this subject a view months ago. I found strong evidence that shows a correlation between the advent and introduction of vaccines and the rise of diseases like Downs Syndrome and Autism. The fact that our FDA has only studied the short term effects of these vaccines is also disturbing. That doesn't mean that I am going to refuse to take vaccines. But I am also not going to be blindly led to believe that they are always beneficial.

What is the evidence that you found, that no one else has ever found. Can you show us the evidence?

[Nansurium]

There was a specific report I found that details the findings. I can't seem to dig it up again. However I have found some evidence that shows that trace amounts of Mercury, which can cause these developmental diseases are still present in Vaccines.

http://vaccines.procon.org/sourcefiles/thimerosal_table.pdf

Now let me be clear. I do not think that vaccines are exclusively "poisonous". I simply feel that individuals should use caution while weighing the risks of utilizing vaccinations.

[Arkinesia]

oh wow

he got screwed eh?

the USA just used him and did'nt give him any help them sicko pro israel bastards

If the ISI wasn't running Pakistan and screwing the US at every turn, this whole debacle would never have happened in the first place.

[Individuality-ness]

Well, there was that one study (which has since been retracted and the author discredited) that claimed that there was a link between vaccines and autism. Also, certain vaccines used some chemical made with mercury as a preservative (the one that I recall uses this is the measles vaccine; I don't know if other vaccines use this).

The "study" was refuted, and thimerosal hasn't been used in over a decade.

The first point I already mentioned was retracted and refuted by the scientific community because the author had conflicts of interest, IIRC. The second point I wasn't fully sure about, considering that I read that apparently it was used in vaccines around two years ago, but it would make sense that it wouldn't be used now, with the paranoia of mercury poisoning.

[Individuality-ness]

I actually argued a debate case relating to this subject a view months ago. I found strong evidence that shows a correlation between the advent and introduction of vaccines and the rise of diseases like Downs Syndrome and Autism. The fact that our FDA has only studied the short term effects of these vaccines is also disturbing. That doesn't mean that I am going to refuse to take vaccines. But I am also not going to be blindly led to believe that they are always beneficial.

Strong evidence? If you're referencing the study that apparently linked autism to vaccines, you should know that that study has been denounced and retracted a while ago, and the author discredited, as evidence mounted that showed no link. If people really did develop signs of autism after vaccination, it's more likely coincidental, as the signs of autism show up around the time that it's safe to vaccinate children against various diseases such as measles, polio, and whooping cough.

[Wikkiwallana]

But as Pakistan is the 35th most powerful country in the world, some injections there might be poisoness.

Um, what?

[Ulvena]

I'm wary of vaccines. I realize their medical benefits, the science behind them, and such. But some vaccines are bums who hate me and everything I stand for and decides to put me in bed for three days.