NationStates

Melas wrote::palm: word keeps getting worse.oh well still illegal here

Why do you give me so much reason to hate you?

Anyway, welcome to the club Denmark. You're now just a tad cooler.

I'm gay and I don't support same-sex marriage. Family and cohabitation should be recognized (regardless of gender), but marriage is a spiritual matter as far as I'm concerned. Forcing churches to perform services contrary to their doctrines, however much I disagree with them, is just stamping on religious freedom. So long as a government provides the same recognition and benefits (if any apply) to couples of any orientation - and most don't at this point - then I don't care about aging men of the cloth who think I'm perverted.

Barbary Bay wrote:I'm gay and I don't support same-sex marriage. Family and cohabitation should be recognized (regardless of gender), but marriage is a spiritual matter as far as I'm concerned. Forcing churches to perform services contrary to their doctrines, however much I disagree with them, is just stamping on religious freedom.

No church is being forced to do anything.

At all.

To claim otherwise is ignorance of the highest degree.

Barbary Bay wrote:I'm gay and I don't support same-sex marriage. 1. Family and cohabitation should be recognized (regardless of gender), but marriage is a spiritual matter as far as I'm concerned. 2. Forcing churches to perform services contrary to their doctrines, however much I disagree with them, is just stamping on religious freedom. 3. So long as a government provides the same recognition and benefits (if any apply) to couples of any orientation - and most don't at this point - then I don't care about aging men of the cloth who think I'm perverted.

1. Marriage is a legal matter. Hence why in the US, you can get married at a courthouse, and people say "by the powers vested in me by [insert name of state here]..."

2. True. Which is why nobody (at least in the US) is seriously advocating for forcing churches to do anything against their will.

3. Civil unions, even if they include the exact same rights as marriage itself, are inherently unequal to marriage by the fact that they aren't called marriages. Personally, I'd rather be married, not civil unionized. And I think most people would answer the same way if asked.

You're both right, and I worded what I meant terribly (I did just wake up.) I'm basically wary of a nation which hasn't practically separated religion from their legislature - which accounts for most countries on the planet - inverting the definition of marriage and performing it in a religious context. For example, in the UK the Church of England is the state religion. Same-sex marriage backed by the state, but not the state religion, is indicative of the irrelevance of the latter in governmental matters. As long as 'marriage' is understood to mean a familial contract of sorts, and not a spiritual binding, I'm all for it.

So now there are 11 countries which have legalized same sex marriage.

The Netherlands (2001)
Belgium (2003)
Spain (2005)
Canada (2005)
South Africa (2006)
Norway (2009)
Sweden (2009)
Portugal (2010)
Iceland (2010)
Argentina (2010)
Denmark (2012)

who'll be next?

Martean wrote:So now there are 11 countries which have legalized same sex marriage.

The Netherlands (2001)
Belgium (2003)
Spain (2005)
Canada (2005)
South Africa (2006)
Norway (2009)
Sweden (2009)
Portugal (2010)
Iceland (2010)
Argentina (2010)
Denmark (2012)

who'll be next?

Hopefully the rest of the world. But I'll settle for America, China, and Australia. IIRC, its legal in NZ...

Barbary Bay wrote:You're both right, and I worded what I meant terribly (I did just wake up.) I'm basically wary of a nation which hasn't practically separated religion from their legislature - which accounts for most countries on the planet - inverting the definition of marriage and performing it in a religious context. For example, in the UK the Church of England is the state religion. Same-sex marriage backed by the state, but not the state religion, is indicative of the irrelevance of the latter in governmental matters. As long as 'marriage' is understood to mean a familial contract of sorts, and not a spiritual binding, I'm all for it.

Don't worry, I totally understand the first part, and agree to an extent with the last.

New Zealand. Specifically, marriage equality.

Grenartia wrote:

Martean wrote:So now there are 11 countries which have legalized same sex marriage.

The Netherlands (2001)
Belgium (2003)
Spain (2005)
Canada (2005)
South Africa (2006)
Norway (2009)
Sweden (2009)
Portugal (2010)
Iceland (2010)
Argentina (2010)
Denmark (2012)

who'll be next?

Hopefully the rest of the world. But I'll settle for America, China, and Australia. IIRC, its legal in NZ...

Barbary Bay wrote:You're both right, and I worded what I meant terribly (I did just wake up.) I'm basically wary of a nation which hasn't practically separated religion from their legislature - which accounts for most countries on the planet - inverting the definition of marriage and performing it in a religious context. For example, in the UK the Church of England is the state religion. Same-sex marriage backed by the state, but not the state religion, is indicative of the irrelevance of the latter in governmental matters. As long as 'marriage' is understood to mean a familial contract of sorts, and not a spiritual binding, I'm all for it.

Don't worry, I totally understand the first part, and agree to an extent with the last.

No it isnt, i legalized civil unions, not marriages

Martean wrote:So now there are 11 countries which have legalized same sex marriage.

The Netherlands (2001)
Belgium (2003)
Spain (2005)
Canada (2005)
South Africa (2006)
Norway (2009)
Sweden (2009)
Portugal (2010)
Iceland (2010)
Argentina (2010)
Denmark (2012)

who'll be next?

Hasn't Finland done it already?

Grenartia wrote:Hopefully the rest of the world. But I'll settle for America, China, and Australia. IIRC, its legal in NZ...

The right to marriage is. Equality on the other hand, that's a whole different story. Same sex couples aren't even allowed to adopt children. This is all changing with current legislation being voted through.

Zaras wrote:

Martean wrote:So now there are 11 countries which have legalized same sex marriage.

The Netherlands (2001)
Belgium (2003)
Spain (2005)
Canada (2005)
South Africa (2006)
Norway (2009)
Sweden (2009)
Portugal (2010)
Iceland (2010)
Argentina (2010)
Denmark (2012)

who'll be next?

Hasn't Finland done it already?

No

Martean wrote:

Zaras wrote:
Hasn't Finland done it already?

No

Damn, Finland, get your shit together already!

Zaras wrote:

Martean wrote:
No

Damn, Finland, get your shit together already!

Its incredible that countries such as Argentina or South Africa have legalised same sex mariages before Finland.

Barbary Bay wrote:For example, in the UK the Church of England is the state religion. Same-sex marriage backed by the state, but not the state religion, is indicative of the irrelevance of the latter in governmental matters.

The CofE is pretty irrelevant though. It's attempting to block a piece of legisture that has a fucking large support base.

Barbary Bay wrote:I'm gay and I don't support same-sex marriage. Family and cohabitation should be recognized (regardless of gender), but marriage is a spiritual matter as far as I'm concerned. Forcing churches to perform services contrary to their doctrines, however much I disagree with them, is just stamping on religious freedom. So long as a government provides the same recognition and benefits (if any apply) to couples of any orientation - and most don't at this point - then I don't care about aging men of the cloth who think I'm perverted.

Err, who cares about churches in this matter ? Atheists can marry too.

Marriage in this discussion is only about the special priviledges people can offer their marriage partner.

Martean wrote:

Zaras wrote:
Damn, Finland, get your shit together already!

Its incredible that countries such as Argentina or South Africa have legalised same sex mariages before Finland.

One would think they are the 'less advanced' (economy wise) and therefore not prepared to say yes... (especially Africa)

but a civil union is great and all countries that have one should at least get some props. (civil union is also for 1 man and a woman, not just 2 women or 2 men.)

Barbary Bay wrote:I'm gay and I don't support same-sex marriage. Family and cohabitation should be recognized (regardless of gender), but marriage is a spiritual matter as far as I'm concerned.

Well, you're wrong. Marriage under the law need not have an iota of spirituality.

Forcing churches to perform services contrary to their doctrines, however much I disagree with them, is just stamping on religious freedom.

Which is why no such thing would happen, nor has it even been proposed.

So long as a government provides the same recognition and benefits (if any apply) to couples of any orientation - and most don't at this point - then I don't care about aging men of the cloth who think I'm perverted.

Obviously you do care about them if you want to change marriage law for their sake. Hell, apparently you care enough to dig up a thread from June.

My country was the first to legalize same sex marriage? Wow, I've never felt more patriotic.

Inertialism wrote:

Martean wrote:
Its incredible that countries such as Argentina or South Africa have legalised same sex mariages before Finland.

One would think they are the 'less advanced' (economy wise) and therefore not prepared to say yes... (especially Africa)

but a civil union is great and all countries that have one should at least get some props. (civil union is also for 1 man and a woman, not just 2 women or 2 men.)

I think same sex marriages should be legal in all countries, becouse if you just legalize civil unions for homosexuals is like trating them as second-class citizens

Martean wrote:So now there are 11 countries which have legalized same sex marriage.

The Netherlands (2001)
Belgium (2003)
Spain (2005)
Canada (2005)
South Africa (2006)
Norway (2009)
Sweden (2009)
Portugal (2010)
Iceland (2010)
Argentina (2010)
Denmark (2012)

who'll be next?

So I converted all of the the initial letters into numbers, using a=1, b=2 etc. The resulting sequence was 14, 2, 19, 3, 19, 14, 19, 16, 9, 1, 4. I then shoved all of this into a Lagrange's interpolation formula (correction, I told Wolfram Alpha to shove it all into Lagrange's interpolation formula) and came out with this polynomial:

Then I plugged in the number, and the twelfth country to legalise gay marriage will begin with the letter L.

Laos
Lebanon
Latvia
Lithuania
Liberia
Liechtenstein
Lesotho
Luxembourg
Libya

Take your pick.

Is it strange that I found this out by reading a webcomic?

Anyway, 50 bucks says China & Russia will be the last nations to legalize same sex marriage.

Martean wrote:So now there are 11 countries which have legalized same sex marriage.

The Netherlands (2001)
Belgium (2003)
Spain (2005)
Canada (2005)
South Africa (2006)
Norway (2009)
Sweden (2009)
Portugal (2010)
Iceland (2010)
Argentina (2010)
Denmark (2012)

who'll be next?

Scotland by 2014 and the rest of the UK by 2015 I believe.

New Kriegizstan wrote:Is it strange that I found this out by reading a webcomic?

Anyway, 50 bucks says China & Russia will be the last nations to legalize same sex marriage.

No, I think the Arab countries will be the last to let that happen...

Johz wrote:

Martean wrote:So now there are 11 countries which have legalized same sex marriage.

The Netherlands (2001)
Belgium (2003)
Spain (2005)
Canada (2005)
South Africa (2006)
Norway (2009)
Sweden (2009)
Portugal (2010)
Iceland (2010)
Argentina (2010)
Denmark (2012)

who'll be next?

So I converted all of the the initial letters into numbers, using a=1, b=2 etc. The resulting sequence was 14, 2, 19, 3, 19, 14, 19, 16, 9, 1, 4. I then shoved all of this into a Lagrange's interpolation formula (correction, I told Wolfram Alpha to shove it all into Lagrange's interpolation formula) and came out with this polynomial:

Then I plugged in the number, and the twelfth country to legalise gay marriage will begin with the letter L.

Laos
Lebanon
Latvia
Lithuania
Liberia
Liechtenstein
Lesotho
Luxembourg
Libya

Take your pick.

I should, of course, have used Lingerholm's method, as described in Mathematics Made Difficult. I would have then, without all of this mathematics, been immediately able to spot that the country which would legalise gay marriage next would be one of Vanuatu, Venezuela, Vietnam, or the Virgin Islands.

A) This may be the funniest post ever.
B) I vote Libya. That'd be interesting.