If you could change one thing in history.

[Saracenia]

Bush is NEVER BORN!

[Genivaria]

Hmmm.....honestly. I'd rather the British Empire moved a little faster with the idea of a Imperial Federation giving local colonies more autonomy and rights, under that condition I would rather the British have won the American Revolutionary War, assuming the Revolution would've happened in the first place.
Better to ally with the strongest and change it from within, then a united Great Britain would take on the world.

[Jafas United]

Ken oath mate! It's a linguistic gem!

Because being an Indo-European language is so mainstream.

I guess the downside is the amount of people you get who think Finnish is very similar to Hungarian.
Person: "Oh you're Finnish? I have a Hungarian friend. You two can speak to each other in your lang...-"
Me:

*googles*

An argument between them two would be something to be seen.

Now wouldn't it just? But I'll take Hippo's side anyday. Soini is a nut.

[Forster Keys]

Ken oath mate! It's a linguistic gem!

Because being an Indo-European language is so mainstream.

I guess the downside is the amount of people you get who think Finnish is very similar to Hungarian.
Person: "Oh you're Finnish? I have a Hungarian friend. You two can speak to each other in your lang...-"
Me:

Ask if they speak Dutch.

Now wouldn't it just? But I'll take Hippo's side anyday. Soini is a nut.

Judging from my conversations with the bloke I'm not entirely sure I'd be the same.

[Jafas United]

Ask if they speak Dutch.

Exactly! It's all the same to English.

Judging from my conversations with the bloke I'm not entirely sure I'd be the same.

I only agree with Soini's opposition to the EU, other than that he's a closet fascist. For one, he said that Finland's military service is more important than democracy. You get the idea.

Other than that, he's developed his own catch phrase with "JYTKY!" Which basically means something big and unexpected. Or as many Finns suspect, coded speak for "Sieg Heil"

As he said "Our win was a big "JYTKY!"

Now I'm clearly ranting aimlessly.

[Forster Keys]

Ask if they speak Dutch.

Exactly! It's all the same to English.

How similar are Finnish and Hungarian?

I only agree with Soini's opposition to the EU, other than that he's a closet fascist. For one, he said that Finland's military service is more important than democracy. You get the idea.

Oh. Me and him would be the fastest of friends.

Other than that, he's developed his own catch phrase with "JYTKY!" Which basically means something big and unexpected. Or as many Finns suspect, coded speak for "Sieg Heil"

As he said "Our win was a big "JYTKY!"

Jytky? That's got a ring to it. Is it a pre-existing Finnish word? Damn. I need my own catchphrase.

Now I'm clearly ranting aimlessly.

This is NSG you know...

[Nazis in Space]

Actually, considering that Belgium was a neutral state whose neutrality and territorial integrity was guaranteed by treaty by the United Kingdom and Germany (as a successor to Prussia), yes, even by the standards of that time it was immoral. Not to mention the atrocities committed, which Wilhelm II hardly prevented; in fact, you could argue that his fiery rhetoric (the best example of which would be the Hun Speech) is partly responsible for encouraging the atrocities.
That Hindenburg and Ludendorff managed to take over is to a great extent Wilhelm II's fault, as he should have prevented it. That he couldn't is another nail in the coffin of the idea that he was able to provide stability when it was needed. The French civilian government managed to shake off their military dictatorship during the war; it took a popular revolution in Germany.

And Britain had a working and active alliance with Portigal, which didn't stop it from threatening it with war if it didn't relinquish some territorial claims. The only difference to Germany's 'Let us march through you against France or else' deal is that Portugal passed on the whole 'War' deal. So yeah. Not a big deal in the context of the time. It was made a big deal chiefly on account of the rampant germanophobia in the United States in particular. Nothing more.

The problem is the circumstances came about in no small part due to Wilhelm's bungling and issuing of the Blank Cheque. As such, he shares the responsibilty for bringing about WWI and said extreme events. The concept that reprisals against civilians are wrong did exist back then, elsewise the Allies would never have attempted to exaggerate them in their propaganda. And breaking treaties with states, even if they were weaker than you, was considered wrong as well.

I think we agree that WW1 would've come about one way or the other. Now, sure - the treatment of civilians in the early stages of the war was problematic, I'm not disagreeing there, I do, however, question the idea of making Wilhelm out as a main cause for this. As opposed to the military's wish to avoid guerilla warfare issues by way of preemptive measures - they had had problems with civilian guerillas in the 1870/ 71 war, after all.

[Jafas United]

How similar are Finnish and Hungarian?

About as similar as Spanish and Swedish. So not very much at all. There's a few words which sound a like e.g. fish in Finnish is "kala" and in Hungarian I think it's "kal" or "kel". Or maybe not...I could be wrong.

Blegh! Estonian is more similar.

Oh. Me and him would be the fastest of friends.

Maybe. He does favor a welfare state, which you like.

He also hates the Swedish language which is just plain mean. And he's good friends with Teuvo Hakkarainen...so yeah.

Jytky? That's got a ring to it. Is it a pre-existing Finnish word? Damn. I need my own catchphrase.

It existed in the Finnish language beforehand. But Uncle Timo transformed it into his own. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he has copyright on it.

Now what should your catchphrase be? Hmm...

This is NSG you know...[

True, true. In a way, this has something to do with the thread at hand. Somehow.

[Laerod]

Actually, considering that Belgium was a neutral state whose neutrality and territorial integrity was guaranteed by treaty by the United Kingdom and Germany (as a successor to Prussia), yes, even by the standards of that time it was immoral. Not to mention the atrocities committed, which Wilhelm II hardly prevented; in fact, you could argue that his fiery rhetoric (the best example of which would be the Hun Speech) is partly responsible for encouraging the atrocities.
That Hindenburg and Ludendorff managed to take over is to a great extent Wilhelm II's fault, as he should have prevented it. That he couldn't is another nail in the coffin of the idea that he was able to provide stability when it was needed. The French civilian government managed to shake off their military dictatorship during the war; it took a popular revolution in Germany.

And Britain had a working and active alliance with Portigal, which didn't stop it from threatening it with war if it didn't relinquish some territorial claims. The only difference to Germany's 'Let us march through you against France or else' deal is that Portugal passed on the whole 'War' deal. So yeah. Not a big deal in the context of the time. It was made a big deal chiefly on account of the rampant germanophobia in the United States in particular. Nothing more.

Tu quoque fallacy. It's pretty clear that it wasn't ok.

The problem is the circumstances came about in no small part due to Wilhelm's bungling and issuing of the Blank Cheque. As such, he shares the responsibilty for bringing about WWI and said extreme events. The concept that reprisals against civilians are wrong did exist back then, elsewise the Allies would never have attempted to exaggerate them in their propaganda. And breaking treaties with states, even if they were weaker than you, was considered wrong as well.

I think we agree that WW1 would've come about one way or the other. Now, sure - the treatment of civilians in the early stages of the war was problematic, I'm not disagreeing there, I do, however, question the idea of making Wilhelm out as a main cause for this. As opposed to the military's wish to avoid guerilla warfare issues by way of preemptive measures - they had had problems with civilian guerillas in the 1870/ 71 war, after all.

Oh, I'm not saying Wilhelm is the main cause. I am, however, refuting the argument that he's been a moral guide for the better because he contributed to creating a mindset that justified disproportionate reprisal.

[Michianna]

I would have invaded Nazi Germany after they took back the Rhineland, and stopped their terrible plans, because when they marched into the Rhineland DMZ, they were still vulnerable to invasion and would have been crushed by either france or britain.

[Nazis in Space]

Hmmm.....honestly. I'd rather the British Empire moved a little faster with the idea of a Imperial Federation giving local colonies more autonomy and rights, under that condition I would rather the British have won the American Revolutionary War, assuming the Revolution would've happened in the first place.
Better to ally with the strongest and change it from within, then a united Great Britain would take on the world.

The difference in power this would make for the first half of the 19th century is negligible. Worse still, it'd remain negligible, since Britain wasn't particularly fond of non-British emigrating to its colonies. Or Britain itself. American population growth would consequently be rather below what happened historically, and America would be demographically and economically inferior to what could've been. Even settler colonies that achieved dominion-statuswere usually chiefly agricultural in nature - it seems highly doubtful that an America still bound to the motherland's industries, demographically inferior et al, would be any different.

This actually has considerable (And pleasant) implications - for starters, the American banks and industries that propped up the ententé during the first world war wouldn't be there, or rather, be much, much smaller. Admittedly, grain would be there aplenty. This implies a much greater chance for Germany to achieve a favourable peace by 1916 or so (Before Hindenburg and Ludendorff acquired quasi-dictatorial powers over Germany), not to mention, unrestricted submarine warfare doesn't have to be dropped on account of yank pressure.

... Hm.

Tell you what, I'll team up with you on this.

[Atalem]

Oh! Here's a few good ones!

-I'd prevent the heart attack that killed Ogedei and give the Mongols some time to shore up their holdings in Europe.
-Alternatively, kill of Baibars before the battle of Ain Jalut. This way, the Mongols take Egypt and we can maybe get some safety for the Coptic Christians in there.
-Nebuchadnezzar gets his crown handed to him at Jerusalem. A Judean empire, what with them being religiously motivated up the wazoo, might, might be able to hold of Cyrus and keep the Ionian Greeks free from Persian domination.
-Kill of Temudjin when he was younger, and make sure Kuchlug decides to take over the world.
-Prevent TImur from dying before he invades China. China needed to be scared into innovating.
-Blow Zheng He off-course, have him land in Mexico. Contact with China could help the Aztecs and other peoples. Better yet, have the Chinese overthrow the Aztecs and start up a settlement in concert with the Tlaxcalans.
-Kill off Selim the Sot, maybe have Suleyman live longer. Also, no Battle of Ankara to halt the Ottoman advance. Either that, or have Bayezid win, forcing Timur to head east sooner.
-Defeat the Hepthalites and save the Gupta.
-Save the Mohenjo-Daroans and prevent the Aryan invasion.
-Prevent the Indo-Europeans from entering Europe, just to see what happens.
-Have the Greeks lose Salamis.
-Celts conquer Rome at the Battle of the Allia, just to see how things go.
-Have Hannibal attack the Diadochoi instead of Rome.

[Ifreann]

Oh! Here's a few good ones!

-I'd prevent the heart attack that killed Ogedei...

How?

[Atalem]

Oh! Here's a few good ones!

-I'd prevent the heart attack that killed Ogedei...

How?

Well, if we're assuming we ourselves are going back in time, I'd bring modern medicine back with me... and some tips on heart health for the Khan.

If we're just affecting things from afar, I don't know.

[Frisivisia]

Bush is NEVER BORN!

So you are of the school which believes that he is a Great President, rather than the Greatest President?

[Camawana]

Adolf hitler wining the war

[Farnhamia]

Oh! Here's a few good ones!

-I'd prevent the heart attack that killed Ogedei and give the Mongols some time to shore up their holdings in Europe.
-Alternatively, kill of Baibars before the battle of Ain Jalut. This way, the Mongols take Egypt and we can maybe get some safety for the Coptic Christians in there.
-Nebuchadnezzar gets his crown handed to him at Jerusalem. A Judean empire, what with them being religiously motivated up the wazoo, might, might be able to hold of Cyrus and keep the Ionian Greeks free from Persian domination.
-Kill of Temudjin when he was younger, and make sure Kuchlug decides to take over the world.
-Prevent TImur from dying before he invades China. China needed to be scared into innovating.
-Blow Zheng He off-course, have him land in Mexico. Contact with China could help the Aztecs and other peoples. Better yet, have the Chinese overthrow the Aztecs and start up a settlement in concert with the Tlaxcalans.
-Kill off Selim the Sot, maybe have Suleyman live longer. Also, no Battle of Ankara to halt the Ottoman advance. Either that, or have Bayezid win, forcing Timur to head east sooner.
-Defeat the Hepthalites and save the Gupta.
-Save the Mohenjo-Daroans and prevent the Aryan invasion.
-Prevent the Indo-Europeans from entering Europe, just to see what happens.
-Have the Greeks lose Salamis.
-Celts conquer Rome at the Battle of the Allia, just to see how things go.
-Have Hannibal attack the Diadochoi instead of Rome.

- The Celts beat the Romans at the Allia and subsequently sacked Rome.
- Hannibal had no reason whatsoever to move east instead of against Rome.
- The Jews were never interested in empire, and even if they were, they hadn't the resources to fight the Persians.
- The Indus Valley civilization wasn't overthrown by the Aryans, it was was overthrown by drought and a shift in the course of the river and declining trade with Egypt and Mesopotamia.

[West Vandengaarde]

Too many choices...

Well, I could have McClellan's peninsular campaign succeed so that people wouldn't blame him for false information given to him by his hired Pinkerton agents.
I could have Germany win the first world war, securing German supremacy in the world and ruining the chance of having either the second world war or a European Union.
Or I could just have it so that the Saxons completely destroy the British race during their invasions rather than sparing them.

[Hathradic States]

You know that fly? That one fly that, if it had been smashed, we would be ruled by giant fly overlords? I would smash that fly.

[Nazis in Space]

-Nebuchadnezzar gets his crown handed to him at Jerusalem. A Judean empire, what with them being religiously motivated up the wazoo, might, might be able to hold of Cyrus and keep the Ionian Greeks free from Persian domination.

lel

-Blow Zheng He off-course, have him land in Mexico. Contact with China could help the Aztecs and other peoples. Better yet, have the Chinese overthrow the Aztecs and start up a settlement in concert with the Tlaxcalans.

By the time of Zheng He's death, the Aztecs were still restricted to the area immediately surrounding Tenochtitlan, many, many kilometres inland. Are you sure that marching a few hundred kilometres inland through pretty shitty terrain, and toppling a tiny, pretty-much-still-a-village tribe of neolithics makes sense?

[Norjagen]

Archduke Franz Ferdinand was never assassinated, preventing the onset of world war one, whose aftermath as a driving force behind both the communist revolution in Russia and world war two, both of which set the stage for the cold war, which led to increased instability and violence to this day.

[Nazis in Space]

A cunning and extraordinarily sophisticated series of manipulations early in Earth' history leads to modernity being a tropical world - Eozene-esque climate - with giant arthropods ruling it and their human slaves - rather scantily clad slaves, I should add - with chitinous claws.

[Farnhamia]

Too many choices...

Well, I could have McClellan's peninsular campaign succeed so that people wouldn't blame him for false information given to him by his hired Pinkerton agents.
I could have Germany win the first world war, securing German supremacy in the world and ruining the chance of having either the second world war or a European Union.
Or I could just have it so that the Saxons completely destroy the British race during their invasions rather than sparing them.

Except the Saxons became the "British race" after driving the Celtic Britons into Wales and Cornwall. Funny, that.

[New Abooutland]

oh and maybe the french didnt exsist DEATH TO THE FRENCH!!!

they are a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys who like they poodles to poop

[Hibernion (Ancient)]

The Native Americans killing off all the European colonists.