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If you could change one thing in history.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Prussia-Steinbach
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:27 pm

Nordengrund wrote:Gather the Native Americans, form an army of them. Then I would march them to Washington, D.C. and say "Native Americans of the world, unite!" and have them fight to regain their land.

Native Americans? Don't most Americans already have land?

Oh wait, you mean the American Indians. OK then, I would gather an army (also known as the U.S. Army) and have them kill every last one of the traitors.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Trollgaard
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Trollgaard » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:32 pm

Nordengrund wrote:Gather the Native Americans, form an army of them. Then I would march them to Washington, D.C. and say "Native Americans of the world, unite!" and have them fight to regain their land.


You don't have the numbers. They are like 1% of the population. You'd just create another Trail of Tears.

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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:39 pm

Nordengrund wrote:Gather the Native Americans, form an army of them. Then I would march them to Washington, D.C. and say "Native Americans of the world, unite!" and have them fight to regain their land.


This thread is "if you could change 1 thing in history", not "if you had a time machine".
Also, you can't speak Native American languages, and I doubt they would listen to you even if you could.
Furthermore, I doubt you'd make a good military leader.
Finally, you chance of success are low, no matter which time period you choose.
Last edited by Conscentia on Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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The Lone Alliance
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Postby The Lone Alliance » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:42 pm

Make Reagan lose the election.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -Herman Goering
--------------
War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; -William Tecumseh Sherman

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Glorious Brittania
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Founded: Aug 24, 2012
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Postby Glorious Brittania » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:08 pm

The UK in Exile wrote:
Glorious Brittania wrote:Gustav Stresemann would have lived.


:clap:


Good to see another person loves the Gustameister.

After all: Stresemann, Stresemann. Does whatever a Strese can.

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Veladio
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Postby Veladio » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:10 pm

Christianity never violently expanded into northern Europe and Scandinavia, causing needless wars, a loss of oral and written tradition, and a demonization of Pagans.
I am a Wiccan. Do not assume I am an Atheist in Religion threads simply because I support complete Secularization of Government Entities.

Social Libertarian (could care less about Economics, there are people who are more educated at it, so it is a waste of time to try and debate me on it.). As stated above I am a Wiccan, and I find solidarity with the Egyptian Deities. I support government secularization as well as complete freedom of religion, as I believe that to truly be secular, the state must respect all beliefs, and favor none. And I recently enlisted in the United States Navy.

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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:39 am

Conscentia wrote:
Nordengrund wrote:Gather the Native Americans, form an army of them. Then I would march them to Washington, D.C. and say "Native Americans of the world, unite!" and have them fight to regain their land.


This thread is "if you could change 1 thing in history", not "if you had a time machine".
Also, you can't speak Native American languages, and I doubt they would listen to you even if you could.
Furthermore, I doubt you'd make a good military leader.
Finally, you chance of success are low, no matter which time period you choose.

I choose 1607, pocohantus let's john smith be executed.
Followed up in 1620 with the plymouth rock massacre.

All those inidans needed was decent border security and the country would still be free.
:p
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Winslavia
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Founded: Mar 17, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Winslavia » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:44 am

Destroy Religion. All Of Them :D

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Floyd Bjoernstjerne Olson
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Ex-Nation

Postby Floyd Bjoernstjerne Olson » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:49 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Conscentia wrote:
This thread is "if you could change 1 thing in history", not "if you had a time machine".
Also, you can't speak Native American languages, and I doubt they would listen to you even if you could.
Furthermore, I doubt you'd make a good military leader.
Finally, you chance of success are low, no matter which time period you choose.

I choose 1607, pocohantus let's john smith be executed.
Followed up in 1620 with the plymouth rock massacre.

All those inidans needed was decent border security and the country would still be free.
:p

John Smith never met Pocahontas and led the Jamestown settlement in Virginia. He hated natives rather vehemently.
John Rolfe, on the other hand, knew Pocahontas, but they got married and went off to England - no executions or anything involved...a rather peaceful affair.
Plymouth Colony was peaceful and they were friendly with the natives until one soldier got a bit overzealous.

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:52 am

Floyd Bjoernstjerne Olson wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:I choose 1607, pocohantus let's john smith be executed.
Followed up in 1620 with the plymouth rock massacre.

All those inidans needed was decent border security and the country would still be free.
:p

John Smith never met Pocahontas and led the Jamestown settlement in Virginia. He hated natives rather vehemently.
John Rolfe, on the other hand, knew Pocahontas, but they got married and went off to England - no executions or anything involved...a rather peaceful affair.
Plymouth Colony was peaceful and they were friendly with the natives until one soldier got a bit overzealous.


which was the indians big mistake, In plymouth anyway the indian tribes tried to us the white folks as pawns in their own political games. Where they should have immediately banded together and massacred the settlers.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Floyd Bjoernstjerne Olson
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Postby Floyd Bjoernstjerne Olson » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:54 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Floyd Bjoernstjerne Olson wrote:John Smith never met Pocahontas and led the Jamestown settlement in Virginia. He hated natives rather vehemently.
John Rolfe, on the other hand, knew Pocahontas, but they got married and went off to England - no executions or anything involved...a rather peaceful affair.
Plymouth Colony was peaceful and they were friendly with the natives until one soldier got a bit overzealous.


which was the indians big mistake, In plymouth anyway the indian tribes tried to us the white folks as pawns in their own political games. Where they should have immediately banded together and massacred the settlers.

I'm descended from settlers in Plymouth Colony so I wouldn't appreciate that...
Plymouth is where Thanksgiving comes from, you know. They were peaceful. Why was it so bad if they were both friends and both helped each other?

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Petrovsegratsk
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Ex-Nation

Postby Petrovsegratsk » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:58 am

Make sure that the short-lived "Republic of Russia" won the Russian Civil War, so Russia would thrive under Democratic Capitalism, and not suffer under Dictatorial Socialism.
My name is Николай and I am from Россия.

IMPEACH CHARLES XII - LEGALIZE MODERNIZATION - ISOLATION IS THEFT - PETER THE GREAT 1682

The Capitalist Russian, a rare species.

Yandere Schoolgirls wrote:Capitalism is the most moral and effective system for bringing wealth to countries that man has ever devised or known


Hippostania wrote:I live in the second largest metropolitan area in the country (with a grand population of 300,000 :p) and as a lifelong city dweller, I have no skills to survive in the wild whatsoever. To put it mildly, I'd be royally fucked.



The Ben Boys wrote:They are so cute. It's like a toddler trying to wrestle a bear, except the toddler is retarded, doesn't have any teeth, and poops way too much.

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Ethel mermania
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ethel mermania » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:02 am

Floyd Bjoernstjerne Olson wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
which was the indians big mistake, In plymouth anyway the indian tribes tried to us the white folks as pawns in their own political games. Where they should have immediately banded together and massacred the settlers.

I'm descended from settlers in Plymouth Colony so I wouldn't appreciate that...
Plymouth is where Thanksgiving comes from, you know. They were peaceful. Why was it so bad if they were both friends and both helped each other?


because allowing the whites to establish a base in the US, is one of the the proximate causes of the indians being wiped out.

also our friends in st. augustine may have an issue with you about thanksgiving party you threw 70 years or so too late. :p

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2812096/posts
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Draugaborg
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Founded: Aug 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Draugaborg » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:02 am

Most likely prevent the birth of Christianity. I hope it'd prevent Islam. I don't really care for Judaism since those folks are so closed and xenophobic (as in, don't want to intermix, not necessarily hate others).
The language of Draugaborg is Draugskur. The demonym is Draugaborgskúr(male) or Draugaborgskö (female), both plural and singular. The adjective is Draugaborgar. Draugskur is a constructed and artistic language created by me, and is based mainly on Icelandic and Russian. Please note that its systems and grammar may be modified, so certain posts will be rendered void in retrospect.

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Independent Peoples Communes
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Founded: Aug 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Independent Peoples Communes » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:05 am

In 1917 the October Revolution failed in Russia. Instead November German Revolution is fully successful. Therefore communism is introduced into high-developed country with strong working class and under the leadership of Rosa Luxembourg and Karl Liebknecht.

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Floyd Bjoernstjerne Olson
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Postby Floyd Bjoernstjerne Olson » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:16 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Floyd Bjoernstjerne Olson wrote:I'm descended from settlers in Plymouth Colony so I wouldn't appreciate that...
Plymouth is where Thanksgiving comes from, you know. They were peaceful. Why was it so bad if they were both friends and both helped each other?


because allowing the whites to establish a base in the US, is one of the the proximate causes of the indians being wiped out.

also our friends in st. augustine may have an issue with you about thanksgiving party you threw 70 years or so too late. :p

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2812096/posts

Oh well, that's how history was played out. I'd rather the Americas didn't end up like Africa, anyways.

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Glorious Brittania
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Postby Glorious Brittania » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:17 am

Petrovsegratsk wrote:Make sure that the short-lived "Republic of Russia" won the Russian Civil War, so Russia would thrive under Democratic Capitalism, and not suffer under Dictatorial Socialism.


This. A thousand times this. Give Kerensky a chance, people!

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Petrovsegratsk
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Postby Petrovsegratsk » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:19 am

Glorious Brittania wrote:
Petrovsegratsk wrote:Make sure that the short-lived "Republic of Russia" won the Russian Civil War, so Russia would thrive under Democratic Capitalism, and not suffer under Dictatorial Socialism.


This. A thousand times this. Give Kerensky a chance, people!


Yes, Red Russia was worst Russia.
My name is Николай and I am from Россия.

IMPEACH CHARLES XII - LEGALIZE MODERNIZATION - ISOLATION IS THEFT - PETER THE GREAT 1682

The Capitalist Russian, a rare species.

Yandere Schoolgirls wrote:Capitalism is the most moral and effective system for bringing wealth to countries that man has ever devised or known


Hippostania wrote:I live in the second largest metropolitan area in the country (with a grand population of 300,000 :p) and as a lifelong city dweller, I have no skills to survive in the wild whatsoever. To put it mildly, I'd be royally fucked.



The Ben Boys wrote:They are so cute. It's like a toddler trying to wrestle a bear, except the toddler is retarded, doesn't have any teeth, and poops way too much.

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Delvoir
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Founded: Aug 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Delvoir » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:23 am

France's short-lived constitutional monarchy wouldn't have collapsed and the French Revolution would have led to democracy and would have been relatively bloodless. There would have been no bloodthirsty Robespierre, no Napoleon, the Age of Enlightenment would have been able to continue and there would be no police states enforced in Vienna and Naples.
Last edited by Delvoir on Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater Ilanar
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Postby Greater Ilanar » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:24 am

There would never be a rise of communism.

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:25 am

Greater Ilanar wrote:There would never be a rise of communism.

You mean state capitalism.

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Nazis in Space
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Postby Nazis in Space » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:45 am

Capitalism: Defined by the private Ownership of the means of production.

Socialism: Defined as a necessary stage in the evolution of communism, characterised by the state ownership of the means of production

Wanking: Redefining a given term in a thoroughly nonsensical fashion staggeringly contradictory to the phenomenon's philosophical and practical history to avoid having to deal with reality on account of preferring to engage in mutual intellectual masturbation within one's intellectually inbred philosophical circlejerk.

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:47 am

Nazis in Space wrote:Socialism: Defined as a necessary stage in the evolution of communism, characterised by the state ownership of the means of production

wut



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

"Socialism /ˈsoʊʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system characterised by social ownership and cooperative management of the means of production,[1] and a political philosophy advocating such a system."



Big difference.
Last edited by Divair on Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nazis in Space
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Postby Nazis in Space » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:59 am

Divair wrote:
Nazis in Space wrote:Socialism: Defined as a necessary stage in the evolution of communism, characterised by the state ownership of the means of production

wut



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

"Socialism /ˈsoʊʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system characterised by social ownership and cooperative management of the means of production,[1] and a political philosophy advocating such a system."



Big difference.
"Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or autonomous state enterprises.
And it's worth noting that 'State Ownership' was very specifically mentioned among its most influential authors (Marx among them) as the most practical solution.

Though I'll grant you that 'Socialism' is hilariously nebulously defined, with hundreds of competing definitions, which makes it pretty easy to always pick one that suits one's purposes, while claiming that the other, competing definitions, movements, and lets-try-it-for-real attempts are clearly not socialism, despite very much originating from the 'Socialism' cloud of philosophical and socio-economic thought. That part, while sad, is sufficiently common - I dare saying it's universal - that you shall be excused for doing it.

Declaring a lack of private ownership 'Capitalism' by way of cunningly inverting the very definition of capitalism, on the other hand, is such a load of bullshit, it's inexcusable. Admittedly, you didn't object to that objection of mine, so that's covered, too.

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Jewcrew
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Postby Jewcrew » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:01 am

Nazis in Space wrote:
Divair wrote:wut



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

"Socialism /ˈsoʊʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system characterised by social ownership and cooperative management of the means of production,[1] and a political philosophy advocating such a system."



Big difference.
"Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or autonomous state enterprises.
And it's worth noting that 'State Ownership' was very specifically mentioned among its most influential authors (Marx among them) as the most practical solution.

Though I'll grant you that 'Socialism' is hilariously nebulously defined, with hundreds of competing definitions, which makes it pretty easy to always pick one that suits one's purposes, while claiming that the other, competing definitions, movements, and lets-try-it-for-real attempts are clearly not socialism, despite very much originating from the 'Socialism' cloud of philosophical and socio-economic thought. That part, while sad, is sufficiently common - I dare saying it's universal - that you shall be excused for doing it.

Declaring a lack of private ownership 'Capitalism' by way of cunningly inverting the very definition of capitalism, on the other hand, is such a load of bullshit, it's inexcusable. Admittedly, you didn't object to that objection of mine, so that's covered, too.


THANK YOU! :clap:
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