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Abortion discussion in Turkey

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Kemaliste
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Abortion discussion in Turkey

Postby Kemaliste » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:40 pm

The prime minister Erdogan has brought the whole country into a discussion after surprisingly saying in his party's congress '' “I see abortion as murder… I am asking you: what’s the difference between killing a baby inside a mother’s womb and killing a baby after birth?” for no reason at all. Somebody claimed that Erdogan just tried to change the agenda as his government was under intense public pressure about a debatable airstrike that led to the killing of 34 Kurdish civilians in Uludure, Turkey's Iraqi border. “Each abortion is one Uludere,” Erdogan said, adding that abortion and caesarean births were part of a sneaky plan to slow the growth of Turkey’s population. Abortion has been legan on request (up to 10 weeks) since 1983.

The next day, his health minister expressed that they've started to work on a new law proposal that would restrict caesarean and abortion. His saying that the state would take care of babies born because of incidents of rape caused a great public criticism. The main opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) reacted furiously, “The prime minister should stop guarding vaginas,” said CHP's woman lawmaker Aylin Nazliaka.

A deputy from his party tried to justify Erdogan saying that abortion is still discussed among Western societies. A government-supporter journalist read a fictional letter on a TV program titled '' A letter from an unborn baby to his/her mother '' and then she began to cry. There are such efforts in some channels and newspapers to convince the public that it is a real murder exploiting people's emotions.

Now there has been a harsh debate in public for a few days, from my point I can claim that people are divided about half and half about this issue. I'm against its restriction, some women's organizations began to hold protests in the squares.

Is it a natural result of the party's being social conservative just like the Republican Party in USA ? are there such discussions there ? and are there states there prohibiting abortion ?

EDIT: The government has decided not to change the current abortion law (10 weeks on request, 20 weeks on the occasion of rape) in the recent meeting, probably due to the great public reactions and protests.

And it now strengthens the claims that they just used this abortion issue to distract people's attention for a while, they did not really care about it from the beginning at all.
Last edited by Kemaliste on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:26 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:42 pm

Ugh, what the fuck, Turkey?
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:43 pm

Abortion is legal in the United States due to Roe v. Wade. http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0410_0113_ZS.html
However, the Republicans are quite anti-abortion now and would try to do everything legal to restrict abortion.
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Kemaliste
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Postby Kemaliste » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:44 pm

Geilinor wrote:Abortion is legal in the United States due to Roe v. Wade. http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0410_0113_ZS.html
However, the Republicans are quite anti-abortion now and would try to do everything legal to restrict abortion.


I know that each state has different laws so is it legal in all of them ?
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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:44 pm

They shouldn't be restricting abortion. They should be allowing it more.
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Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:45 pm

Kemaliste wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Abortion is legal in the United States due to Roe v. Wade. http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0410_0113_ZS.html
However, the Republicans are quite anti-abortion now and would try to do everything legal to restrict abortion.


I know that each state has different laws so is it legal in all of them ?

Yes. That ruling was by the Supreme Court, it overrides any state or federal laws.
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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:45 pm

Kemaliste wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Abortion is legal in the United States due to Roe v. Wade. http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0410_0113_ZS.html
However, the Republicans are quite anti-abortion now and would try to do everything legal to restrict abortion.


I know that each state has different laws so is it legal in all of them ?

Yes. Roe v. Wade was a SCOTUS decision, and falls on a federal level so all states have to abide by it.
The Andromeda Islands wrote:This! Is! A! Bad! Idea!
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:46 pm

Kemaliste wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Abortion is legal in the United States due to Roe v. Wade. http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0410_0113_ZS.html
However, the Republicans are quite anti-abortion now and would try to do everything legal to restrict abortion.


I know that each state has different laws so is it legal in all of them ?

Yes.
Last edited by Geilinor on Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Daihan
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Postby Daihan » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:53 pm

Sounds like typical conservative BS. I'm sorry you guys have to deal with it in Turkey, too.
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:57 pm

Kemaliste wrote:The prime minister Erdogan has brought the whole country into a discussion after surprisingly saying in his party's congress '' “I see abortion as murder… I am asking you: what’s the difference between killing a baby inside a mother’s womb and killing a baby after birth?” for no reason at all. Somebody claimed that Erdogan just tried to change the agenda as his government was under intense public pressure about the a debatable airstrike that led to the killing of 34 Kurdish civilians in Uludure, Turkey's Iraqi border. “Each abortion is one Uludere,” Erdogan said, adding that abortion and caesarean births were part of a sneaky plan to slow the growth of Turkey’s population. Abortion has been legan on request (up to 10 weeks) since 1983.

The next day, his health minister expressed that they've started to work on a new law proposal that would restrict caesarean and abortion. His saying that the state would take care of babies born because of incidents of rape caused a great public criticism. The main opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) reacted furiously, “The prime minister should stop guarding vaginas,” said CHP's woman lawmaker Aylin Nazliaka.

A deputy from his party tried to justify Erdogan saying that abortion is still discussed among Western societies. A government-supporter journalist read a fictional letter on a TV program titled '' A letter from an unborn baby to his/her mother '' and then she began to cry. There are such efforts in some channels and newspapers to convince the public that it is a real murder exploiting people's emotions.

Now there has been a harsh debate in public for a few days, from my point I can claim that people are divided about half and half about this issue. I'm against its restriction, some women's organizations began to hold protests in the squares.

Is it a natural result of the party's being social conservative just like the Republican Party in USA ? are there such discussions there ? and are there states there prohibiting abortion ?

Ugh. Damn it.

Yeah, there are abortion discussions over here, and some states make it damn hard to get an abortion. But under a decision from the US Supreme Court, they aren't allowed to outright ban it.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:58 pm

ok.....but what is wrong with cesarian birth? does he want mothers to die while trying to deliver these precious babies?
whatever

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Kemaliste
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Postby Kemaliste » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:58 pm

Daihan wrote:Sounds like typical conservative BS. I'm sorry you guys have to deal with it in Turkey, too.


Republicans in USA are not able to do whatever they want at least. Unfortunately the people's rights are dependent on the government's mercy.
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Secruss
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Postby Secruss » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:00 pm

I'm in agreement with the conservatives in Turkey on this one, abortion is murder of the next generation for the convenience of the current.
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Postby Ashmoria » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:00 pm

Kemaliste wrote:
Daihan wrote:Sounds like typical conservative BS. I'm sorry you guys have to deal with it in Turkey, too.


Republicans in USA are not able to do whatever they want at least. Unfortunately the people's rights are dependent on the government's mercy.


isnt there something about abortion rights being important if turkey wants to get into the EU?

does turkey still want to be in the EU?
whatever

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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:01 pm

Ashmoria wrote:ok.....but what is wrong with cesarian birth? does he want mothers to die while trying to deliver these precious babies?

The baby must go through the vagina, or doom will befall us all.
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Alyekra
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Postby Alyekra » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:01 pm

Hopefully Turkey will end their infanticide. I'll be watching this.

http://abolishhumanabortion.com/faq/
(FOR LEGAL REASONS, THAT'S A JOKE)

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Kemaliste
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Postby Kemaliste » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:01 pm

Ashmoria wrote:ok.....but what is wrong with cesarian birth? does he want mothers to die while trying to deliver these precious babies?


The health minister claimed that caesarians are applied unnecessarily sometimes (near %50, the rate is even more than average European countries) because the doctors want to get paid more.
Last edited by Kemaliste on Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:01 pm

Secruss wrote:I'm in agreement with the conservatives in Turkey on this one, abortion is murder of the next generation for the convenience of the current.

at 10 weeks? its giving women a tiny window of opportunity to decide their own future.
whatever

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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:02 pm

Secruss wrote:I'm in agreement with the conservatives in Turkey on this one, abortion is murder of the next generation for the convenience of the current.

It's not murder. To deny a woman the right to an abortion, you take away her bodily autonomy and essentially enslave every woman.
The Andromeda Islands wrote:This! Is! A! Bad! Idea!
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



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Ashmoria
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Postby Ashmoria » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:02 pm

Kemaliste wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:ok.....but what is wrong with cesarian birth? does he want mothers to die while trying to deliver these precious babies?


The health minister claimed that caesarians are applied unnecessarily sometimes (near %50) because the doctors want to get paid more.


meaning that the other 50% are done for dire necessity.
whatever

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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:04 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:ok.....but what is wrong with cesarian birth? does he want mothers to die while trying to deliver these precious babies?

The baby must go through the vagina, or doom will befall us all.

Babies born by Cesarean will obviously form an army of superhuman monsters and call on their alien allies to kill us all. Only vagina babies are good babies.
The Andromeda Islands wrote:This! Is! A! Bad! Idea!
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



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Alyekra
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Postby Alyekra » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:04 pm

Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:
Secruss wrote:I'm in agreement with the conservatives in Turkey on this one, abortion is murder of the next generation for the convenience of the current.

It's not murder. To deny a woman the right to an abortion, you take away her bodily autonomy and essentially enslave every woman.


Lies.
(FOR LEGAL REASONS, THAT'S A JOKE)

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Kemaliste
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Postby Kemaliste » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:05 pm

Ashmoria wrote:
Kemaliste wrote:
Republicans in USA are not able to do whatever they want at least. Unfortunately the people's rights are dependent on the government's mercy.


isnt there something about abortion rights being important if turkey wants to get into the EU?

does turkey still want to be in the EU?


My belief (and a serious number of people's here) is that the government uses EU to provide more control over the military which used to be a serious threat to the government (under the mask of more democratization and reaching EU standards). Now they've begun to show their real face as the threat has gone away.
Last edited by Kemaliste on Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:08 pm

Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:
Ifreann wrote:The baby must go through the vagina, or doom will befall us all.

Babies born by Cesarean will obviously form an army of superhuman monsters and call on their alien allies to kill us all. Only vagina babies are good babies.

It lead to Macbeth's downfall, and so it will lead to the downfall of human civilisation.
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Kemaliste
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Postby Kemaliste » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:08 pm

Secruss wrote:I'm in agreement with the conservatives in Turkey on this one, abortion is murder of the next generation for the convenience of the current.


Are you American ?
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