Would you kill an intruder?

[Hammurab]

That wasn't necessary, but if you were able to see the point I'm trying to make: I wish to join the marines, that is my decision. My parents accepted it. However, once my parents saw it was a serious and impending one (not sure why it wasn't in the first place) they quickly broke into factions and began preaching to me.

All I'm saying is don't revert back. My parents were proud of my decision, now the time has come and their telling me it's selfish to do this.

EDIT: Back on topic: Robberies turn nasty all the time, there is nothing wrong with defending yourself. The whole argument above is pointless, it's not being tough, it's being safe.

Actually, that's not all you said. You claimed all Marines sound like that previous poster. We've shown that they don't.

Because to them, it is about being tough, and making sure people on the internet know they're tough. Not all Marines sound like that.

[Hammurab]

Until someone just decides he's stronger than you.

No, it's better for everyone, in the long run, to respond with love. Sure, it might not end well for you personally, but isn't a better world for us all more important?

Respond with love?

One's personal well being is the only thing that should matter to one.

Maybe he means some kind of Ancient Monastic Militant Order love where you love them by killing them so they can ascend to the 14th Level of Enlightenment while their body bleeds out onto your Dr. Who kitchen mat.

[Shadowlandistan]

Only if my life or my families life was in danger.

[Bornisia]

That wasn't necessary, but if you were able to see the point I'm trying to make: I wish to join the marines, that is my decision. My parents accepted it. However, once my parents saw it was a serious and impending one (not sure why it wasn't in the first place) they quickly broke into factions and began preaching to me.

All I'm saying is don't revert back. My parents were proud of my decision, now the time has come and their telling me it's selfish to do this.

Dont' stick forks in your eyes or deliberately shit your pants at important public events.

Don't drive while intoxicated. Don't snatch the trigger.

Don't wipe your ass with your bare hand.

That's all I'm saying. Hopefully you're able to see the point I'm making.

I do, it's weird to think this decision will practically hand me over to them. It will be tough for everyone, in the end it also depends on what he is seeking job wise. (Which my father tells me I should never set my sights on and simply see where they think I should go) It's one of those rare jobs where decisions really make a difference.

I am, by law, not given any authority to shoot him.

However, I am in a position to make a citizen arrest in this position, and I would. I would call the police. Then I would enter, inform him that I will interpret him raising his weapon as a threat, and order him to leave my home. If he refused to lower his weapon, I would deliberately injure him, taking it as a 'threat'. If he moved to leave; I'd have to let him, but I'd have every detail of his description ready for a cop. Hopefully he would be caught.

I'm not going to jail forever because I hastily shot someone, giving them legal ammunition to fry me.

I once made a citizens arrest...didn't work. (Then again the guy was an African Warlord (zing) ) You can shoot them, just dont kill them unless its becomes life or death. But it's a gun, it will probably do enough just wounding them. I'm sure everyone knows about the case we had here with that pharmacy robbery attempt...

[Hammurab]

I do, it's weird to think this decision will practically hand me over to them. It will be tough for everyone, in the end it also depends on what he is seeking job wise. (Which my father tells me I should never set my sights on and simply see where they think I should go) It's one of those rare jobs where decisions really make a difference.

What also might help is you acknowledging that not all Marines sound the way you claimed they sound. They don't all sound like that previous poster, the way you claimed they did.

The fair thing to do would be to withdraw your "yes they do" comment from early in the thread. Its clearly incorrect.

[JoeBob99]

As my father always told me "Shoot later and ask questions" There's no way I would let myself get harmed. I would harm someone else first, because obviously they are armed and expecting to fight back if it comes to it. Anyways, stealing is just as illegal in the real world as killing someone... So wouldn't that make it even?

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Funnily enough, being inside your house in England and brandishing a knife at people outside the house is a criminal offence.
We have castle laws? Impossibru.

Only England and Wales have partial castle laws and they are just that, partial. The moment a) the danger has averted or b) the force you use is beyond reasonable, any action you take is an offence.

They're still shit.

[Ereria]

I always have my Iron bat under my bed. I would try to give a killing blow.

[Hammurab]

As my father always told me "Shoot later and ask questions" There's no way I would let myself get harmed. I would harm someone else first, because obviously they are armed and expecting to fight back if it comes to it. Anyways, stealing is just as illegal in the real world as killing someone... So wouldn't that make it even?

Holy shit.

[Bornisia]

That wasn't necessary, but if you were able to see the point I'm trying to make: I wish to join the marines, that is my decision. My parents accepted it. However, once my parents saw it was a serious and impending one (not sure why it wasn't in the first place) they quickly broke into factions and began preaching to me.

All I'm saying is don't revert back. My parents were proud of my decision, now the time has come and their telling me it's selfish to do this.

EDIT: Back on topic: Robberies turn nasty all the time, there is nothing wrong with defending yourself. The whole argument above is pointless, it's not being tough, it's being safe.

Actually, that's not all you said. You claimed all Marines sound like that previous poster. We've shown that they don't.

Because to them, it is about being tough, and making sure people on the internet know they're tough. Not all Marines sound like that.

No it's not about making people on the internet know their tough. It's about defending your country, liberating the oppressed, and being the best you can be. Most Marines...well all of them I know do sound like that. I do have a level of pride, but I was never one to boast (which is rare in my opinion). The marines pride themselves on tradition and what not. In the the previous post I was referring to simple pride, not the internet tough guy attitude to which I thought you were referring to. (There is plenty of internet tough guys who have never been around the armed forces)

EDIT: and to all NS'ers on this thread I take back the previous statement of simply shooting them, you could simply do that, assuming you do not have a more monitored atmosphere on guns.

[Penguinmark]

I live in the UK. The downside is that I don't own a gun because the firearm laws are so strict. The upside is that criminals rarely do, either. I'd probably grab something like a breadknife, or even a chair. If I did have a gun, I would only shoot an armed intruder. If the intruder wasn't armed, I would maybe fire warning shots, but accost them until the police arrive.

A lot of people's attitudes towards this issue can be a bit...over the top. It is rare for the intruder to be a raging psychopath who wants to kill you. The normal motive among intruders is to break into your house, steal a laptop (or anything else that's valuable and portable) and get out without being seen. I would expect that the average intruder would rather be definately caught for burglary than commit murder and probably be caught. That is not to say it is wrong to attack an intruder but it's worthwhile thinking about what they're doing.

[Hammurab]

No it's not about making people on the internet know their tough. It's about defending your country, liberating the oppressed, and being the best you can be.

That is a simplistic and likely very young interpretation, which you are free to cling to yourself but not force on all Marines.

Most Marines...well all of them I know do sound like that.

That's very different than what you said. You said they all sound like that. Hopefully you'll meet more and have a less narrow view. Some sound like that. You said all. "All that I've met" is a different claim, and you should go back and edit.

I do have a level of pride, but I was never one to boast (which is rare in my opinion). The marines pride themselves on tradition and what not. In the the previous post I was referring to simple pride, not the internet tough guy attitude to which I thought you were referring to. (There is plenty of internet tough guys who have never been around the armed forces)

You continue to utterly miss the point of contention. I'm beginning to see there might not be a lot of opportunity for productive discourse.

[Saiwania]

It is better to kill an intruder than to merely wound because a dead person can't file a lawsuit. So the only thing an intruder would get from me short of gunfire is a warning to leave immediately or else.

[Secruss]

Semi-relevant.

[Cromarty]

Only England and Wales have partial castle laws and they are just that, partial. The moment a) the danger has averted or b) the force you use is beyond reasonable, any action you take is an offence.

They're still shit.

Not really. They're perfectly reasonable.

[Caninope]

United States Marine Corps here............... 'nuff said.

Now I'm kind of less interested in hoping my boy will decide to join the Marines.

Do they all sound like you?

No, most of the Marines I've met have been nice and good people. Sometimes passionate, but I've never met one in real life that has said he would shoot an intruder in such a gruesome manner as Spiritwolf described. This is from the Marines I've met online (people like Dyakovo) and the ones I've met in RL.

In fact, Spiritwolf's attitude doesn't seem to be in line with the Marine ethos. The Marines are supposed to be marksman, but they aren't supposed to be gruesome. Marines also don't just shoot fellow Marines who refuse to take up arms, like Spiritwolf described.

[Keronians]

Wack him with a cricket bat, or stab him with a knife.

Unless he surrenders, or something. Then he can just leave.

Also call the police.

[Hammurab]

Now I'm kind of less interested in hoping my boy will decide to join the Marines.

Do they all sound like you?

No, most of the Marines I've met have been nice and good people. Sometimes passionate, but I've never met one in real life that has said he would shoot an intruder in such a gruesome manner as Spiritwolf described. This is from the Marines I've met online (people like Dyakovo) and the ones I've met in RL.

In fact, Spiritwolf's attitude doesn't seem to be in line with the Marine ethos. The Marines are supposed to be marksman, but they aren't supposed to be gruesome. Marines also don't just shoot fellow Marines who refuse to take up arms, like Spiritwolf described.

That's been my experience, too.

Just thought I'd see how far they'd try to sell this shit. One kid even later claims they all talk like that. Backpedaled later.

[Free South Califas]

Which is an immoral and barbaric principle.

No, its not.
It is my life, my property and my family. I should have full right to blow your brains out if you threaten any of them.

So if I break your salt shaker, you can put one between my eyes?

[Great Nepal]

No, its not.
It is my life, my property and my family. I should have full right to blow your brains out if you threaten any of them.

So if I break your salt shaker, you can put one between my eyes?

Provided you broke into my house, yes?
As a reasonable person, would I do that? No but I would expect an apology for breaking it.

Something should be legal =/= Something must be done by individual.

[Free South Califas]

It's amazing how far you moved those goalposts all by yourself. The OP specifically says that the intruder in question is a thief, not a rapist.

Tell ya what Farnhamia.......... I will meet you half way here. YOU wait and see if the ARMED INTRUDER is gonna grab your goods or turn YOU into a BUTT MONKEY......... I'll just watch and munch popcorn on the couch while he does it, fair enough? You happy now?

Just to be clear, you're expressing a desire to watch Farnhamia be raped?

[Indira]

Shoot him if he doesn't surrender. Shooting to wound is for films and will probably get you killed. Of course, I don't have a gun so...

[Hammurab]

Tell ya what Farnhamia.......... I will meet you half way here. YOU wait and see if the ARMED INTRUDER is gonna grab your goods or turn YOU into a BUTT MONKEY......... I'll just watch and munch popcorn on the couch while he does it, fair enough? You happy now?

Just to be clear, you're expressing a desire to watch Farnhamia be raped?

Apparently that's how Marine's like to eat popcorn. At least this one.

[Free South Califas]

I am enthusiastic about using lethal force on a threat

Which is a problem.

All violence is intrinsically immoral.

Quoted to remind debaters of the context in which this statement was originally made.

[Ovisterra]

Which is a problem.

All violence is intrinsically immoral.

Quoted to remind debaters of the context in which this statement was originally made.

The context of such a definite statement matters little.

I'm inclined to disagree with it. I mean, if someone's coming at you with a knife/chair or your soft toys have told you it's what the unicorns would want, it would be ok to shoot the person in the foot or kick them in the balls.