Would you kill an intruder?

[Ifreann]

Did you even bother reading my post? Let me reiterate: in the event that your non-violent robber suddenly turns murderous and has absolutely no self-preservation instinct whatsoever, you have a gun.

Your flippant dismissal of the seriousness of, er, murder, doesn't do you any favours.

Funny, I don't think you read mine.

Oh, I'd be heart broken for defending myself and family members in the house against some idiot breaking in with a weapon. So heart broken.

There is, in fact, every possibility that killing someone would traumatise you to some degree.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Only in the extreme case when it was the only way to save my own life or that of someone else in the house. I don't believe that just because someone has broken into your house you need, or have the right, to kill them.

[Big Jim P]

From the self defense thread:

Everyone has the right to defend themselves, their property and their loved ones, against unprovoked attack. Anyone not willing to stand up and do so is unworthy of further consideration, let alone respect.

This includes using lethal force if required.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

Good to know, but since you were talking about shooting someone who hadn't threatened you in any way, that's an irrelevant comment. I also note you've failed to explain why my suggested strategy (of not shooting them dead immediately) would be insufficient.

Breaking into my home with a large knife is threatening me and others, this shouldn't be too difficult to see. There's a number of things wrong with your plan, for one, there's a chance he could have anther weapon such as a gun. Being most likely at night and the house pitch black, it may be hard to see his movements closely enough that I can be assured of my safety. Taking a clear shot right away eliminates the threat to myself and others. I'm not going to be concerned about what happens to the criminal, my concern is to try and ensure my own and family's safety right away.

[Tubbsalot]

Good to know, but since you were talking about shooting someone who hadn't threatened you in any way, that's an irrelevant comment. I also note you've failed to explain why my suggested strategy (of not shooting them dead immediately) would be insufficient.

Breaking into my home with a large knife is threatening me and others, this shouldn't be too difficult to see. There's a number of things wrong with your plan, for one, there's a chance he could have anther weapon such as a gun. Being most likely at night and the house pitch black, it may be hard to see his movements closely enough that I can be assured of my safety. Taking a clear shot right away eliminates the threat to myself and others. I'm not going to be concerned about what happens to the criminal, my concern is to try and ensure my own and family's safety right away.

threat·en/ˈTHretn/
Verb:
1. State one's intention to take hostile action against someone in retribution for something done or not done.
2. Express one's intention to harm or kill (someone): "the men threatened the customers with a handgun".

I was addressing the circumstances described in the OP, not an arbitrary fantasy you're using to justify your immediate intention to murder someone. If you're going to just make things up, why not say that the robber is also Satan bin al-Hitler.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

threat·en/ˈTHretn/
Verb:
1. State one's intention to take hostile action against someone in retribution for something done or not done.
2. Express one's intention to harm or kill (someone): "the men threatened the customers with a handgun".

I was addressing the circumstances described in the OP, not an arbitrary fantasy you're using to justify your immediate intention to murder someone. If you're going to just make things up, why not say that the robber is also Satan bin al-Hitler.

Well, in a real situation, the criminal won't be following OP rules on an internet forum. So, I'm not going to assume the knife is the only weapon in a real situation.

[Tubbsalot]

threat·en/ˈTHretn/
Verb:
1. State one's intention to take hostile action against someone in retribution for something done or not done.
2. Express one's intention to harm or kill (someone): "the men threatened the customers with a handgun".

I was addressing the circumstances described in the OP, not an arbitrary fantasy you're using to justify your immediate intention to murder someone. If you're going to just make things up, why not say that the robber is also Satan bin al-Hitler.

Well, in a real situation, the criminal won't be following OP rules on an internet forum. So, I'm not going to assume the knife is the only weapon in a real situation.

Well, in a real situation, they might not be a criminal. There might not be anyone in your house. You might be 80 years old and everyone you ever loved has died leaving only you and your rapidly-fading memories.

I'm not going to assume you're living on Earth because otherwise we'd be following the rules in an OP on an internet forum, and that would just be silly.

[Ifreann]

Guys, what if the intruder was a vampire?

[The Reliquary]

Well, as most intruders want stuff rather than to harm me, I'd comply and replace what was stolen.

Point of discussion:

Does all this macho talk of blowing away intruders just increase tension to the point where intruders feel they need to be armed and neutralise the householder?

[Ifreann]

Well, as most intruders want stuff rather than to harm me, I'd comply and replace what was stolen.

Point of discussion:

Does all this macho talk of blowing away intruders just increase tension to the point where intruders feel they need to be armed and neutralise the householder?

Nah, nobody takes Internet Tough Guys seriously.

[Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen]

I'm completely unsure how an armed intruder who has broken into your home is supposed to be nonthreatening.

Like, I literally do not understand how that could even begin to be considered nonthreatening.

[Tubbsalot]

I'm completely unsure how an armed intruder who has broken into your home is supposed to be nonthreatening.

Like, I literally do not understand how that could even begin to be considered nonthreatening.

threat·en/ˈTHretn/
Verb:
1. State one's intention to take hostile action against someone in retribution for something done or not done.
2. Express one's intention to harm or kill (someone): "the men threatened the customers with a handgun".

[Big Jim P]

I'm completely unsure how an armed intruder who has broken into your home is supposed to be nonthreatening.

Like, I literally do not understand how that could even begin to be considered nonthreatening.

threat·en/ˈTHretn/
Verb:
1. State one's intention to take hostile action against someone in retribution for something done or not done.
2. Express one's intention to harm or kill (someone): "the men threatened the customers with a handgun".

You've posted this before. The very act of breaking into someones home armed is an expression of intent to harm or kill.

[Amiatia]

Castle laws have been in many states for years now, as we all know. Also the general answer you will get from cops about if you should shoot to kill is "kill them, they cant sue if they are dead"
So, here is the scenario. You live in a state where it is legal to shoot and/or kill a tresspasser. One day a robber breaks into your house and starts stripping it to the walls. You notice the robber also has a large knife.
You have a gun. Assuming the robber is dangerous-you don't know if he really wants to kill you or just harm you but nevertheless you must decide what to do.Do you shoot to kill?,Do you shoot to wound?, or you just let him strip your house to the walls?
Remember he is armed and poses a threat. He is also trying to steal everything you ever owned for the express purpose of getting money illegaly through your own hardwork.
Personally, id probably shoot to kill if I really have to but that is my own opinion.

Well, what's yours NSG?

I would shoot him, yes. There are children in this house and escaping with all of them would be difficult at the best of times. That, and replacing the things I've worked so hard to obtain in my life would be very difficult as well right now. If he thinks tough talk and a big knife will save him, he is wrong.

The cops are right, by the way. You need to be alive to take somebody else to court. My uncle taught me that one. He also taught me that shooting to cause injury just makes them dangerous. If the situation justifies drawing the weapon and shooting in the first place, it justifies killing them.

[Ifreann]

I'm completely unsure how an armed intruder who has broken into your home is supposed to be nonthreatening.

Like, I literally do not understand how that could even begin to be considered nonthreatening.

They've got their hands up, they're tossing the knife to the ground, they're climbing out a window. Pretty easy to imagine some possible scenarios.

[Tubbsalot]

threat·en/ˈTHretn/
Verb:
1. State one's intention to take hostile action against someone in retribution for something done or not done.
2. Express one's intention to harm or kill (someone): "the men threatened the customers with a handgun".

You've posted this before. The very act of breaking into someones home armed is an expression of intent to harm or kill.

Yes I have, and no it isn't.

In fact there's sort of a dead giveaway that breaking into a house armed isn't a threat, and the giveaway is that it's impossible to describe both things at once with the same words.

[Our Most Resplendent Goddess Sen]

I'm completely unsure how an armed intruder who has broken into your home is supposed to be nonthreatening.

Like, I literally do not understand how that could even begin to be considered nonthreatening.

threat·en/ˈTHretn/
Verb:
1. State one's intention to take hostile action against someone in retribution for something done or not done.
2. Express one's intention to harm or kill (someone): "the men threatened the customers with a handgun".

threat (θrɛt)

— n
1. a declaration of the intention to inflict harm, pain, or misery
2. an indication of imminent harm, danger, or pain
3. a person or thing that is regarded as dangerous or likely to inflict pain or misery


threat·en [thret-n]
verb (used with object)
1. to utter a threat against; menace: He threatened the boy with a beating.
2. to be a menace or source of danger to: Sickness threatened her peace of mind.
3. to offer (a punishment, injury, etc.) by way of a threat: They threatened swift retaliation.
4. to give an ominous indication of: The clouds threaten rain.

See? I can quote dictionary entries too!

[Big Jim P]

You've posted this before. The very act of breaking into someones home armed is an expression of intent to harm or kill.

Yes I have, and no it isn't.

In fact there's sort of a dead giveaway that breaking into a house armed isn't a threat, and the giveaway is that it's impossible to describe both things at once with the same words.

If there was no intent to harm then the intruder wouldn't be armed, and actions, in this case the breaking into a house, is a form of expression.

[Samuraikoku]

Guys, what if the intruder was a vampire?

I'm Type 0 Negative. Not sure they would like it.

[The Reliquary]

Yes I have, and no it isn't.

In fact there's sort of a dead giveaway that breaking into a house armed isn't a threat, and the giveaway is that it's impossible to describe both things at once with the same words.

If there was no intent to harm then the intruder wouldn't be armed, and actions, in this case the breaking into a house, is a form of expression.

What if the weapon is for self defence if a house owner waving a shotgun appears whilst he's 'borrowing' your TV?

[Kington Langley]

Only if they were trying to kill me because it is against the law in the UK to cause harm to an intruder who poses no danger to you.

[Big Jim P]

threat·en/ˈTHretn/
Verb:
1. State one's intention to take hostile action against someone in retribution for something done or not done.
2. Express one's intention to harm or kill (someone): "the men threatened the customers with a handgun".

threat (θrɛt)

— n
1. a declaration of the intention to inflict harm, pain, or misery
2. an indication of imminent harm, danger, or pain
3. a person or thing that is regarded as dangerous or likely to inflict pain or misery


threat·en [thret-n]
verb (used with object)
1. to utter a threat against; menace: He threatened the boy with a beating.
2. to be a menace or source of danger to: Sickness threatened her peace of mind.
3. to offer (a punishment, injury, etc.) by way of a threat: They threatened swift retaliation.
4. to give an ominous indication of: The clouds threaten rain.

See? I can quote dictionary entries too!

And without editing them too!

Tubs: I have bolded the relevant definitions: The intruder is not MAKING threats. The Intruder IS a threat.

[Amiatia]

They've got their hands up, they're tossing the knife to the ground, they're climbing out a window. Pretty easy to imagine some possible scenarios.

If he puts his hands up and drops the weapon, he will be told to get on his face and kiss the carpet. If he refuses, he will be shot. If he complies, he will be hauled in by the Police. Saves me a bullet.

If he is running away, he might be shot anyway, unless he moves very quickly. I'll also still be calling the cops to report the incident, of course.

[Tubbsalot]

threat·en [thret-n]
verb (used with object)
1. to utter a threat against; menace: He threatened the boy with a beating.
2. to be a menace or source of danger to: Sickness threatened her peace of mind.
3. to offer (a punishment, injury, etc.) by way of a threat: They threatened swift retaliation.
4. to give an ominous indication of: The clouds threaten rain.

See? I can quote dictionary entries too!

Since those entries agree with me, I'm not sure what your point is.

If there was no intent to harm then the intruder wouldn't be armed, and actions, in this case the breaking into a house, is a form of expression.

Really? For goodness sake. "They're armed, they must be planning to attack someone without provokation!" "He's looking at her suggestively, he must be planning to rape her!" You can't think of any other possible explanation for their being armed?

Breaking into a house and stealing things is expressing that you're a thief. Unless you can find a way to twist that into expressing that they're an evil murderer, I don't see the relevance.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Guys, what if the intruder was a vampire?

Then they would have had to have been invited to enter the house. Now, if it was a zombie that would be a different kettle of fish. Though killing the undead is a grey area...