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Would you kill an intruder?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Would you kill an intruder?

Yes
226
56%
Id shoot him in a limb
105
26%
Id hide & wait till he leaves
22
5%
Other(plz explain)
49
12%
 
Total votes : 402

User avatar
Free South Califas
Senator
 
Posts: 4213
Founded: May 22, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Free South Califas » Thu May 31, 2012 12:00 pm

Spiritwolf wrote:I can see why you would feel that way and i respect your analysis and opinion. "Combat Mindset" is a skill in its own right and is useful when the need for lethal force exists. Whether that need comes in the form of an enemy soldier trying to take your life or an armed intruder in your home, the simple fact is a weapon will do you no good if you are unwilling or afraid to use it. I am enthusiastic about using lethal force on a threat, thats true, but in any other context it is unacceptable. A Marine who will not use his weapon is worthless to himself, his family, and his Nation.


There is an implied subservience here. Who decides when lethal force is necessary? That is a homeowner or tenant's right within reason, and should be viewed with leniency when s/he is protecting the lives of others (which by the way is not necessarily happening when someone comes to your place to steal your stuff, even if they have a knife, though of course their brandishing a weapon makes the line blurry). But on the battlefield, sometimes an American must value respect for freedom and self-determination above the goals of the politicians who volunteered them into some dank hellhole. Many Marines in the Vietnam Era served their country by refusing to shoot the poor suckers with the other uniform on. Think about the dilemma of a black soldier, probably lacking civil rights in their home state, drafted by a country which has no room for them in its economy, where their countrymen hate him and throw rocks through his window if he dares get too close to the Included Ones. If you were that man, would you fire because the politicians that hold you down, told someone to give you an order? Many of these men had unspoken agreements with their co-draftees on the other side: if they saw each other, they would avert their eyes and keep looking for the enemy in another direction. Two people live another day, maybe with the hope of coming home to put food on the table, maybe hoping to come home and change their society for the better. I think our country is much stronger for these men having survived, and come home to participate in our democracy, and I despise the implication that servicemembers who respect life above hierarchical command are "worthless".

At the very least, you should acknowledge that this is my country too and I get to determine who is and isn't worthless to me.
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Free South Califas
Senator
 
Posts: 4213
Founded: May 22, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Free South Califas » Thu May 31, 2012 12:03 pm

Big Jim P wrote:
Free South Califas wrote:
Well, aren't you a charmer. Everyone's gotta do it your way, huh? Individual freedom isn't good enough for you?


No, I did not say they had to do it my way. Just that if they aren't willing to step up and defend their own, then they do not deserve (nor will they receive) my consideration or respect.


Ah, thanks for clarifying. You said "any" consideration or respect earlier. Pretty different IMHO, sorry if this comes across as nitpicking.
FSC Government
Senate: Saul Califas; First Deputy Leader of the Opposition
Senior Whip, Communist Party (Meiderup)

WA: Califan WA Detachment (CWAD).
Justice
On Autism/"R-word"
(Lir. apologized, so ignore that part.)
Anarchy Works/Open Borders
Flag
.
.
.
I'm autistic and (proud, but) thus not a "social detective", so be warned: I might misread or accidentally offend you.
'Obvious' implications, tones, cues etc. may also be missed.
SELF MANAGEMENT ✯ DIRECT ACTION ✯ WORKER SOLIDARITY
Libertarian Communist

.
COMINTERN/Stonewall/TRC

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Spiritwolf
Diplomat
 
Posts: 944
Founded: Nov 21, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Spiritwolf » Thu May 31, 2012 12:42 pm

Free South Califas wrote:
Spiritwolf wrote:I can see why you would feel that way and i respect your analysis and opinion. "Combat Mindset" is a skill in its own right and is useful when the need for lethal force exists. Whether that need comes in the form of an enemy soldier trying to take your life or an armed intruder in your home, the simple fact is a weapon will do you no good if you are unwilling or afraid to use it. I am enthusiastic about using lethal force on a threat, thats true, but in any other context it is unacceptable. A Marine who will not use his weapon is worthless to himself, his family, and his Nation.


There is an implied subservience here. Who decides when lethal force is necessary? That is a homeowner or tenant's right within reason, and should be viewed with leniency when s/he is protecting the lives of others (which by the way is not necessarily happening when someone comes to your place to steal your stuff, even if they have a knife, though of course their brandishing a weapon makes the line blurry). But on the battlefield, sometimes an American must value respect for freedom and self-determination above the goals of the politicians who volunteered them into some dank hellhole. Many Marines in the Vietnam Era served their country by refusing to shoot the poor suckers with the other uniform on. Think about the dilemma of a black soldier, probably lacking civil rights in their home state, drafted by a country which has no room for them in its economy, where their countrymen hate him and throw rocks through his window if he dares get too close to the Included Ones. If you were that man, would you fire because the politicians that hold you down, told someone to give you an order? Many of these men had unspoken agreements with their co-draftees on the other side: if they saw each other, they would avert their eyes and keep looking for the enemy in another direction. Two people live another day, maybe with the hope of coming home to put food on the table, maybe hoping to come home and change their society for the better. I think our country is much stronger for these men having survived, and come home to participate in our democracy, and I despise the implication that servicemembers who respect life above hierarchical command are "worthless".

At the very least, you should acknowledge that this is my country too and I get to determine who is and isn't worthless to me.

This is the beauty of combat operations in the FMF........ they handle their own problems their way. Simply put, if you were in my Unit and i observed you "refusing to shoot the poor suckers with the other uniform on" i would make it my business to find an opportunity to waste your fucking ass. Then you could "avert your eyes" from six feet under all day long. My Marines are not gonna die in a firefight due to your inaction/moral objections.
Last edited by Spiritwolf on Thu May 31, 2012 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Caninope
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24620
Founded: Nov 26, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Caninope » Thu May 31, 2012 12:52 pm

Spiritwolf wrote:
Free South Califas wrote:
There is an implied subservience here. Who decides when lethal force is necessary? That is a homeowner or tenant's right within reason, and should be viewed with leniency when s/he is protecting the lives of others (which by the way is not necessarily happening when someone comes to your place to steal your stuff, even if they have a knife, though of course their brandishing a weapon makes the line blurry). But on the battlefield, sometimes an American must value respect for freedom and self-determination above the goals of the politicians who volunteered them into some dank hellhole. Many Marines in the Vietnam Era served their country by refusing to shoot the poor suckers with the other uniform on. Think about the dilemma of a black soldier, probably lacking civil rights in their home state, drafted by a country which has no room for them in its economy, where their countrymen hate him and throw rocks through his window if he dares get too close to the Included Ones. If you were that man, would you fire because the politicians that hold you down, told someone to give you an order? Many of these men had unspoken agreements with their co-draftees on the other side: if they saw each other, they would avert their eyes and keep looking for the enemy in another direction. Two people live another day, maybe with the hope of coming home to put food on the table, maybe hoping to come home and change their society for the better. I think our country is much stronger for these men having survived, and come home to participate in our democracy, and I despise the implication that servicemembers who respect life above hierarchical command are "worthless".

At the very least, you should acknowledge that this is my country too and I get to determine who is and isn't worthless to me.

This is the beauty of combat operations in the FMF........ they handle their own problems their way. Simply put, if you were in my Unit and i observed you "refusing to shoot the poor suckers with the other uniform on" i would make it my business to find an opportunity to waste your fucking ass. Then you could "avert your eyes" from six feet under all day long. My Marines are not gonna die in a firefight due to your inaction/moral objections.

I'm not familiar with what FMF stands for, but in any first world military, you would be court martialed and most likely imprisoned for the rest of your life.
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Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.

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Der Teutoniker
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9452
Founded: Jan 09, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Der Teutoniker » Thu May 31, 2012 1:47 pm

Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:All violence is intrinsically immoral.


Nope.
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Spreewerke
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10910
Founded: Oct 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Spreewerke » Thu May 31, 2012 4:21 pm

Kardelia wrote:
Spreewerke wrote:

I actually review firearms in my free time and practice with my AK-103 clone fairly often. I'm not a badass, I'm just someone who actually wishes to know how to properly use their weapon. If you're at all interested, my reviews can be found at the link in my signature. I'm currently working on a Walther PK380 review and a Mosin M91/30 review. Too lazy to go out and photograph the .22LR MP5 clone at the moment, so that'll probably be later this week.

Really ?



Not sure who this is directed to nor what it's supposed to mean... :eyebrow:

EDIT TO ADD: Oh, and those two reviews are up, so... yeah.
Last edited by Spreewerke on Thu May 31, 2012 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Trotskylvania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17217
Founded: Jul 07, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Thu May 31, 2012 6:59 pm

Spiritwolf wrote:
Ifreann wrote:A mindset that has you unload all your ammo into one person and then batter their body until you are exhausted, no matter the collateral damage, sounds like a spectacularly useless mindset for a solider. Spectacularly.

Overkill is still a kill...........

It's also going to make the cop's pretty unwilling to buy your self-defense story.
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Vallermoore
Senator
 
Posts: 4792
Founded: Mar 27, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vallermoore » Thu May 31, 2012 7:02 pm

Kill him.

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Ende
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7475
Founded: Jan 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Ende » Thu May 31, 2012 7:02 pm

Yeah.

I wouldn't want to kill an intruder, but if I had to, I would.

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Edward Richtofen
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5055
Founded: Mar 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Edward Richtofen » Thu May 31, 2012 7:04 pm

I live in florida and i served in law enforcement
NEED I SAY MORE? (no im not George Zimmerman)
Member of the Socialist Treaty Organization
Economic Left/Right: -8.3
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.9
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:It seems like Donald has pulled out his Trump card.

Corrian wrote: I'm freaking Corrian.

Death Metal wrote:By the OP's logic:

-Communists are big fans of capitalism
-Anarchists believe in the necessity of the state
-Vegans fucking love to eat meat.
-Christians actually worship Satan.
-Homosexual men all like to sleep with women.

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coordinates confirmed, cruise missile away

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Thu May 31, 2012 7:05 pm

Edward Richtofen wrote:I live in florida and i served in law enforcement
NEED I SAY MORE? (no im not George Zimmerman)

Which agency?
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Nahgallay
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 141
Founded: May 08, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nahgallay » Thu May 31, 2012 7:06 pm

I would shoot but make sure not to kill them

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Vermingbourg
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: May 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Vermingbourg » Thu May 31, 2012 7:06 pm

I'd shoot to kill. I'm not just gonna let him get away with it.
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Neo Arcad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11242
Founded: Jan 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Neo Arcad » Thu May 31, 2012 7:07 pm

I would kill an intruder even if he wasn't doing anything. Heck, I'd kill him if he wasn't armed. If he's willing to break into my house, he'd best be ready to get glued back together... IN HELL! And I'd revel in his death, knowing that I was preventing him from committing further crimes or else draining my taxpayer funds in jail.
Last edited by Neo Arcad on Thu May 31, 2012 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
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Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Thu May 31, 2012 7:08 pm

Neo Arcad wrote:I would kill an intruder even if he wasn't doing anything. Heck, I'd kill him if he wasn't armed. If he's willing to break into my house, he'd best be ready to get glued back together... IN HELL!

You know, killing a person, even if it's a lawful kill, is not easy.

The mental consequences are a bitch... unless you're a sociopath.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Neo Arcad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11242
Founded: Jan 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Neo Arcad » Thu May 31, 2012 7:11 pm

Galloism wrote:
Neo Arcad wrote:I would kill an intruder even if he wasn't doing anything. Heck, I'd kill him if he wasn't armed. If he's willing to break into my house, he'd best be ready to get glued back together... IN HELL!

You know, killing a person, even if it's a lawful kill, is not easy.

The mental consequences are a bitch... unless you're a sociopath.


Maybe if it was, like, a kid, or someone I knew/cared about. Then I'd have trouble sleeping later. But for a thief? A common crook? Pah. I'd kill him in a heartbeat, and be proud of my contribution to the betterment of humanity. Zeroth law and all that.
Last edited by Neo Arcad on Thu May 31, 2012 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ostroeuropa wrote:Two shirtless men on a pushback with handlebar moustaches and a kettle conquered India, at 17:04 in the afternoon on a Tuesday. They rolled the bike up the hill and demanded that the natives set about acquiring bureaucratic records.

Des-Bal wrote:Modern politics is a series of assholes and liars trying to be more angry than each other until someone lets a racist epithet slip and they all scatter like roaches.

NSLV wrote:Introducing the new political text from acclaimed author/yak, NEO ARCAD, an exploration of nuclear power in the Middle East and Asia, "Nuclear Penis: He Won't Call You Again".

This is the best region ever. You know you want it.

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Thu May 31, 2012 7:13 pm

Neo Arcad wrote:
Galloism wrote:You know, killing a person, even if it's a lawful kill, is not easy.

The mental consequences are a bitch... unless you're a sociopath.


Maybe if it was, like, a kid, or someone I knew/cared about. Then I'd have trouble sleeping later. But for a thief? A common crook? Pah. I'd kill him in a heartbeat, and be proud of my contribution to the betterment of humanity. Zeroth law and all that.

Easier said than done.

Even a thief, or common crook, is going to have a mother, father, child, and/or sibling that is going to wonder why he had to die.

When you see them... well, it's not easy knowing you are the one that caused it to happen. Whether lawful or not, that sticks with you.

Unless, of course, you're a sociopath, in which case you can simply ignore this.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Trotskylvania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17217
Founded: Jul 07, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Thu May 31, 2012 7:13 pm

Neo Arcad wrote:I would kill an intruder even if he wasn't doing anything. Heck, I'd kill him if he wasn't armed. If he's willing to break into my house, he'd best be ready to get glued back together... IN HELL! And I'd revel in his death, knowing that I was preventing him from committing further crimes or else draining my taxpayer funds in jail.

Good luck explaining that one to the jury.

"Did you fear for your life?"

"No, I did not. He was unarmed."

"Then why'd you kill him?"

"Because he was criminal scum trespassing in my house."

If you're lucky, they'll let you get away with a mitigated manslaughter rap.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in Posadism


"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga

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Kueland
Diplomat
 
Posts: 720
Founded: May 15, 2012
Ex-Nation

I'd arrest him!

Postby Kueland » Thu May 31, 2012 7:14 pm

I think that shoting a intruder would get me in hot water with the police. I'd put him at gunpoint while calling 9-1-1.

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Greater Woodsonia
Secretary
 
Posts: 26
Founded: Jul 21, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Woodsonia » Thu May 31, 2012 7:15 pm

Not living in America, this doesn't apply to me, but...
Couldn't you simply point the apparently loaded gun at the intruder and tell them to stop? I mean, sure, they may have a knife, but as long as you don't get within arm's distance of them you should be fine until the police arrive.(Obviously you call the police)
If they then actually lunged at you in attempt to kill/injure you, then other action could be taken.

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Lusitonorox
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 59
Founded: May 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lusitonorox » Thu May 31, 2012 7:15 pm

I would only kill if my own life was in danger.
“Out of this war, the greatest since the beginning of history, a new world must be born, a world that would justify the sacrifices offered by humanity. This new world must be a world in which there shall be no exploitation of the weak by the strong, of the good by the evil; where there will be no humiliation of the poor by the violence of the rich; where the products of intellect, science and art will serve society for the betterment and beautification of life, and not the individuals for achieving wealth." - Nikola Tesla

Economic Left/Right: -8.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.79

User avatar
Edward Richtofen
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5055
Founded: Mar 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Edward Richtofen » Thu May 31, 2012 7:15 pm

Galloism wrote:
Edward Richtofen wrote:I live in florida and i served in law enforcement
NEED I SAY MORE? (no im not George Zimmerman)

Which agency?


Former Homeland Security officer
and Punta Gorda police department
Member of the Socialist Treaty Organization
Economic Left/Right: -8.3
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.9
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:It seems like Donald has pulled out his Trump card.

Corrian wrote: I'm freaking Corrian.

Death Metal wrote:By the OP's logic:

-Communists are big fans of capitalism
-Anarchists believe in the necessity of the state
-Vegans fucking love to eat meat.
-Christians actually worship Satan.
-Homosexual men all like to sleep with women.

Rob Halfordia wrote:Poduck, Kentucky?

coordinates confirmed, cruise missile away

User avatar
Lusitonorox
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 59
Founded: May 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lusitonorox » Thu May 31, 2012 7:16 pm

Trotskylvania wrote:
Neo Arcad wrote:I would kill an intruder even if he wasn't doing anything. Heck, I'd kill him if he wasn't armed. If he's willing to break into my house, he'd best be ready to get glued back together... IN HELL! And I'd revel in his death, knowing that I was preventing him from committing further crimes or else draining my taxpayer funds in jail.

Good luck explaining that one to the jury.

"Did you fear for your life?"

"No, I did not. He was unarmed."

"Then why'd you kill him?"

"Because he was criminal scum trespassing in my house."

If you're lucky, they'll let you get away with a mitigated manslaughter rap.


>Because he was criminal scum
>criminal scum

"STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM!"
“Out of this war, the greatest since the beginning of history, a new world must be born, a world that would justify the sacrifices offered by humanity. This new world must be a world in which there shall be no exploitation of the weak by the strong, of the good by the evil; where there will be no humiliation of the poor by the violence of the rich; where the products of intellect, science and art will serve society for the betterment and beautification of life, and not the individuals for achieving wealth." - Nikola Tesla

Economic Left/Right: -8.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.79

User avatar
Edward Richtofen
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5055
Founded: Mar 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Edward Richtofen » Thu May 31, 2012 7:16 pm

Neo Arcad wrote:I would kill an intruder even if he wasn't doing anything. Heck, I'd kill him if he wasn't armed. If he's willing to break into my house, he'd best be ready to get glued back together... IN HELL! And I'd revel in his death, knowing that I was preventing him from committing further crimes or else draining my taxpayer funds in jail.


Agreed
Member of the Socialist Treaty Organization
Economic Left/Right: -8.3
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.9
Nationalist State of Knox wrote:It seems like Donald has pulled out his Trump card.

Corrian wrote: I'm freaking Corrian.

Death Metal wrote:By the OP's logic:

-Communists are big fans of capitalism
-Anarchists believe in the necessity of the state
-Vegans fucking love to eat meat.
-Christians actually worship Satan.
-Homosexual men all like to sleep with women.

Rob Halfordia wrote:Poduck, Kentucky?

coordinates confirmed, cruise missile away

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Thu May 31, 2012 7:19 pm

Edward Richtofen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Which agency?


Former Homeland Security officer
and Punta Gorda police department

Ah, I never went to Punta Gorda that I recall, thus it's unlikely we ever met.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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