Would you kill an intruder?

[Gromn]

I will probably elaborate further later in this thread if necessary.

No, we've already gathered that you're the toughest guy of all the internet tough guys.

And probably no older than 16 years.

so let's post snarky replies to him, because that's not antagonizing or otherwise unnecessary at all.

[Elkwell]

Nah, would probably stun them though.

[Parpolitic Citizens]

Castle laws have been in many states for years now, as we all know. Also the general answer you will get from cops about if you should shoot to kill is "kill them, they cant sue if they are dead"
So, here is the scenario. You live in a state where it is legal to shoot and/or kill a tresspasser. One day a robber breaks into your house and starts stripping it to the walls. You notice the robber also has a large knife.
You have a gun. Assuming the robber is dangerous-you don't know if he really wants to kill you or just harm you but nevertheless you must decide what to do.Do you shoot to kill?,Do you shoot to wound?, or you just let him strip your house to the walls?
Remember he is armed and poses a threat. He is also trying to steal everything you ever owned for the express purpose of getting money illegaly through your own hardwork.
Personally, id probably shoot to kill if I really have to but that is my own opinion.

Well, what's yours NSG?

I would give him a warning and tell him to drop the weapon. If he does not relent, I would kill him.

[Angermanland]

well, to start with i'd be wondering why the hell i had a gun in the first place given that my depth perception is shit at best. (target shooting with an air-rifle? forget the bulls-eye, i'm lucky to hit the hay-bale the target's ON.)

this would be closely followed by retrieving my sword. much more hope of actually achieving something that way (and i actually own one). to be fair, the sword is deliberately missing it's edges and point (it's a training weapon. it's been blunted) but i know from experience that it's still a great big honking piece of metal perfectly designed for hitting things with, and that does a fair bit of damage (a Pulled shot hitting me somewhere unarmored in training due to my doing exactly the wrong thing cut skin and bruised my arm for a couple of weeks...) at minimum it's going to cause pain and keep him out of knife range. if he's not randomly wearing armour it's quiet capable of breaking bones. room to move and need for lethal force = power shot to the head. if the first blow doesn't kill the second or third certainly will.

of course, most houses don't have room inside to swing a longsword, so i'd probably be more likely to go for short sword and dagger... i'm a bit better with that than with the longsword, though the style's very defensive, it's also very awkward to fight against, and good for disarming a foe... of course, if the blades aren't Sharp, it's not going to kill anyone unless you ram the dagger into their eye... ram it hard enough into someone's gut you could probably do some damage, i guess...

actually, i'd prefer that option. reasonable odds of managing to disarm them, no worse off if they manage to get my weapons off me (that's actually where a lot of instances of cops shooting people comes from: they can't Risk you getting close enough to them to Take Their Gun, 'cause then suddenly you're a threat to even more people from even further away. which is one of several reasons cops in a lot of places Don't Carry Guns. the rest of the instances of this are either 'the cops are psychos' or 'there was actually a real and present threat that left no other option.') reasonably low odds of getting injured in the process unless said random burglar is a trained swordsman (or has had a lot of practice with his knife, i suppose), kill shots available if necessary, a number of disabling options available... (best one? slam the pommel of the dagger Downward onto his jaw. do it right and the way the jaw moves temporarily cuts off blood flow to the brain, knocking them out. do it wrong, you may have broken their jaw, which is at minimum plenty distracting.)

'course, where i live, use of weaponry is only legit if the dangerous individual in question is using something at least as dangerous (and even then, it's a Defense, not a 'no court case necessary' issue.): blunt steel is a lot further down the list than firearms (heck, even sharp steal is further down the list than firearms.)... there seems to be a bit of a gray area regarding restraining people until the police arrive... you and a buddy tackling a fleeing intruder/burglar/whatever to the ground and holding him down until the cops show up Seems to be legit if a crime actually took place... established fact that the use of firearms to force captured vandals to 'dance' is not legit *laughs* (that one actually happened, though i may be misremembering the details.)

police response times are rubbish, and if they're busy and/or some distance away they're not above getting you to do any part of their job you can without breaking the law For them... no matter how dangerous that actually is to you. though that does seem to be a 'well, you can do this or... you can just ignore it, and we'll assume it's fine, because we're not going to be able to do anything for a while anyway' sort of issue.

not that i'm a lawyer or anything.

[Anacasppia]

I would probably avoid contact with any intruder altogether. I mean, you never know what they might resort to. If I have to fight, I'd probably do that with my C2 Taser, although I do own a couple of handguns, which I would not hesitate to turn on an intruder if he threatens my life.

[Spiritwolf]

Castle laws have been in many states for years now, as we all know. Also the general answer you will get from cops about if you should shoot to kill is "kill them, they cant sue if they are dead"
So, here is the scenario. You live in a state where it is legal to shoot and/or kill a tresspasser. One day a robber breaks into your house and starts stripping it to the walls. You notice the robber also has a large knife.
You have a gun. Assuming the robber is dangerous-you don't know if he really wants to kill you or just harm you but nevertheless you must decide what to do.Do you shoot to kill?,Do you shoot to wound?, or you just let him strip your house to the walls?
Remember he is armed and poses a threat. He is also trying to steal everything you ever owned for the express purpose of getting money illegaly through your own hardwork.
Personally, id probably shoot to kill if I really have to but that is my own opinion.

Well, what's yours NSG?

I fucking live for questions like this................. If an armed intruder has broken into my home i am gonna unload on his ass until he is nothing but a bloody ragged shredded pulp. If my weapon has a fifty round drum magazine then he is gonna have fifty bullet holes in him, no questions asked. I will blow my entire house to pieces if that is what it takes to kill his fucking ass DEAD. Then Ima go get my baseball bat and club his corpse until i cant lift my arms anymore.............. I fucking LOVE Castle Doctrine. Thats me............. my Wife is actually quite a bit more frightening and would definitely do worse to this poor misguided soul that has chosen to break and enter our home while being armed and dangerous. She has a serious maternal protective instinct and is a naturally gifted shooter with a .45 Auto and/or a 12ga autoloader (Kimber Ultra CDP II and FN SLP). We practice practical shooting skills and work on our teamwork and scenario response continually........... the Family that shoots together lives safely together.

[Der Teutoniker]

so let's post snarky replies to him, because that's not antagonizing or otherwise unnecessary at all.

Welcome to the internet. Now that you are hear, you will see that this kind of thing is actually pretty common. As is the "internet toughguy" routine.

Like this guy, for example.

I fucking live for questions like this................. If an armed intruder has broken into my home i am gonna unload on his ass until he is nothing but a bloody ragged shredded pulp. If my weapon has a fifty round drum magazine then he is gonna have fifty bullet holes in him, no questions asked. I will blow my entire house to pieces if that is what it takes to kill his fucking ass DEAD. Then Ima go get my baseball bat and club his corpse until i cant lift my arms anymore.............. I fucking LOVE Castle Doctrine.

I honestly really doubt it buddy.

[Spiritwolf]

so let's post snarky replies to him, because that's not antagonizing or otherwise unnecessary at all.

Welcome to the internet. Now that you are hear, you will see that this kind of thing is actually pretty common. As is the "internet toughguy" routine.

Like this guy, for example.

I fucking live for questions like this................. If an armed intruder has broken into my home i am gonna unload on his ass until he is nothing but a bloody ragged shredded pulp. If my weapon has a fifty round drum magazine then he is gonna have fifty bullet holes in him, no questions asked. I will blow my entire house to pieces if that is what it takes to kill his fucking ass DEAD. Then Ima go get my baseball bat and club his corpse until i cant lift my arms anymore.............. I fucking LOVE Castle Doctrine.

I honestly really doubt it buddy.

My Father is retired Navy and i am retired Marine Corps............... many of my family are also retired Army. I spent several years in the NRA Youth Program shooting on ranges weekly until my skills approached levels that enabled me to win the High Shooter Award at Parris Island and to shoot a score of 243 out of a possible 250 on rifle qual with the M-16A2 at ranges of 200, 300, and 500 yards once in the Fleet Marines. I have nothing to prove here. I answered the question from the heart and meant it literally. What you choose to believe is up to you. Semper Fi

[Ifreann]

Welcome to the internet. Now that you are hear, you will see that this kind of thing is actually pretty common. As is the "internet toughguy" routine.

Like this guy, for example.




I honestly really doubt it buddy.

My Father is retired Navy and i am retired Marine Corps............... many of my family are also retired Army. I spent several years in the NRA Youth Program shooting on ranges weekly until my skills approached levels that enabled me to win the High Shooter Award at Parris Island and to shoot a score of 243 out of a possible 250 on rifle qual with the M-16A2 at ranges of 200, 300, and 500 yards once in the Fleet Marines. I have nothing to prove here. I answered the question from the heart and meant it literally. What you choose to believe is up to you. Semper Fi

Whether that's true or not, the apparent glee with which you imagine brutally killing an intruder is disturbing, to say the least. You should seriously look into speaking with a mental health professional before this predilection for violence you seem to have lands you in front of a judge.

[Kardelia]

Depends on what his motivations were. If it was to rob me, I'd just get my stuff back and give him a hard hitting for good measure that he didn't try robbing me again.

If it were to rape a lady in the house, I'd give him a serious beating and crush his "tenders."

If it were to kidnap or murder one of us, like hell I'd kill him.

Totally agee!

[Terio]

I'd shoot him in his leg most likely, and see if he still wants to mess with me.
Of course if i lacked a weapon, I'm out of luck.

[Spiritwolf]

My Father is retired Navy and i am retired Marine Corps............... many of my family are also retired Army. I spent several years in the NRA Youth Program shooting on ranges weekly until my skills approached levels that enabled me to win the High Shooter Award at Parris Island and to shoot a score of 243 out of a possible 250 on rifle qual with the M-16A2 at ranges of 200, 300, and 500 yards once in the Fleet Marines. I have nothing to prove here. I answered the question from the heart and meant it literally. What you choose to believe is up to you. Semper Fi

Whether that's true or not, the apparent glee with which you imagine brutally killing an intruder is disturbing, to say the least. You should seriously look into speaking with a mental health professional before this predilection for violence you seem to have lands you in front of a judge.

I can see why you would feel that way and i respect your analysis and opinion. "Combat Mindset" is a skill in its own right and is useful when the need for lethal force exists. Whether that need comes in the form of an enemy soldier trying to take your life or an armed intruder in your home, the simple fact is a weapon will do you no good if you are unwilling or afraid to use it. I am enthusiastic about using lethal force on a threat, thats true, but in any other context it is unacceptable. A Marine who will not use his weapon is worthless to himself, his family, and his Nation.

[Insignificance]

I selected 'Other' and will explain why, as instructed to do so.

I live in the UK, Scotland to be precise, and I think the laws on this matter are very different to those in other countries, such as America. Chances are, an intruder in your home in the UK will be unarmed. (I am not for one minute saying the intruder being unarmed in the UK is guaranteed, but there's more of a chance here than in the USA.) Because of that, I don't think the police, or the courts for that matter, would look at you favourably for killing an unarmed man/woman, intruder or not. It'd be different if they were armed, then you could use a weapon to incapacitate them and wait for the authorities. If they died as a result of their injuries that's something you'd have to live with. I would go out of my way to avoid killing them, unless they presented a threat to my life or any other member of my family, even then I'd try and avoid it. Violence isn't the solution to anything, especially violence. That said, if they were armed, and you did kill the intruder, I think their death is "justified" - regardless of what country you live in, as it was in self-defense. Killing them outright when they are unarmed won't be seen as self-defense. If anything it'll be seen as murder, and although you were protecting your family and property, you'll have to ask yourself if it was worth it when you're staring at the prison bars for 20 years.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

I am enthusiastic about using lethal force on a threat

Which is a problem.

All violence is intrinsically immoral.

[Ifreann]

Whether that's true or not, the apparent glee with which you imagine brutally killing an intruder is disturbing, to say the least. You should seriously look into speaking with a mental health professional before this predilection for violence you seem to have lands you in front of a judge.

I can see why you would feel that way and i respect your analysis and opinion. "Combat Mindset" is a skill in its own right and is useful when the need for lethal force exists. Whether that need comes in the form of an enemy soldier trying to take your life or an armed intruder in your home, the simple fact is a weapon will do you no good if you are unwilling or afraid to use it. I am enthusiastic about using lethal force on a threat, thats true, but in any other context it is unacceptable. A Marine who will not use his weapon is worthless to himself, his family, and his Nation.

A mindset that has you unload all your ammo into one person and then batter their body until you are exhausted, no matter the collateral damage, sounds like a spectacularly useless mindset for a solider. Spectacularly.

[Trollgaard]

I am enthusiastic about using lethal force on a threat

Which is a problem.

All violence is intrinsically immoral.

No, its not. Not in the slightest.

But as to the question, perhaps. Generally I don't think somebody should be killed just for breaking and entering and stealing. The law should look the other way if an intruder gets roughed up a bit, though.

If I actually thought my, or a loved one's, life was in danger then yes, I would try and kill an intruder.

[Big Jim P]

From the self defense thread:



This includes using lethal force if required.

Well, aren't you a charmer. Everyone's gotta do it your way, huh? Individual freedom isn't good enough for you?

No, I did not say they had to do it my way. Just that if they aren't willing to step up and defend their own, then they do not deserve (nor will they receive) my consideration or respect.

[Spiritwolf]

I can see why you would feel that way and i respect your analysis and opinion. "Combat Mindset" is a skill in its own right and is useful when the need for lethal force exists. Whether that need comes in the form of an enemy soldier trying to take your life or an armed intruder in your home, the simple fact is a weapon will do you no good if you are unwilling or afraid to use it. I am enthusiastic about using lethal force on a threat, thats true, but in any other context it is unacceptable. A Marine who will not use his weapon is worthless to himself, his family, and his Nation.

A mindset that has you unload all your ammo into one person and then batter their body until you are exhausted, no matter the collateral damage, sounds like a spectacularly useless mindset for a solider. Spectacularly.

Overkill is still a kill...........

[Cromarty]

A mindset that has you unload all your ammo into one person and then batter their body until you are exhausted, no matter the collateral damage, sounds like a spectacularly useless mindset for a solider. Spectacularly.

Overkill is still a kill...........

And in this instance gets you sent to prison for murder.

[Ifreann]

A mindset that has you unload all your ammo into one person and then batter their body until you are exhausted, no matter the collateral damage, sounds like a spectacularly useless mindset for a solider. Spectacularly.

Overkill is still a kill...........

Yeah, and that's what military operations are about, scoring kills at any cost.

[New Abooutland]

i just blow his chavish head off, but unfortunutly i live in the EU where criminals have rights

buericrotic bastards

[Kardelia]

well, to start with i'd be wondering why the hell i had a gun in the first place given that my depth perception is shit at best. (target shooting with an air-rifle? forget the bulls-eye, i'm lucky to hit the hay-bale the target's ON.)

this would be closely followed by retrieving my sword. much more hope of actually achieving something that way (and i actually own one). to be fair, the sword is deliberately missing it's edges and point (it's a training weapon. it's been blunted) but i know from experience that it's still a great big honking piece of metal perfectly designed for hitting things with, and that does a fair bit of damage (a Pulled shot hitting me somewhere unarmored in training due to my doing exactly the wrong thing cut skin and bruised my arm for a couple of weeks...) at minimum it's going to cause pain and keep him out of knife range. if he's not randomly wearing armour it's quiet capable of breaking bones. room to move and need for lethal force = power shot to the head. if the first blow doesn't kill the second or third certainly will.

of course, most houses don't have room inside to swing a longsword, so i'd probably be more likely to go for short sword and dagger... i'm a bit better with that than with the longsword, though the style's very defensive, it's also very awkward to fight against, and good for disarming a foe... of course, if the blades aren't Sharp, it's not going to kill anyone unless you ram the dagger into their eye... ram it hard enough into someone's gut you could probably do some damage, i guess...

actually, i'd prefer that option. reasonable odds of managing to disarm them, no worse off if they manage to get my weapons off me (that's actually where a lot of instances of cops shooting people comes from: they can't Risk you getting close enough to them to Take Their Gun, 'cause then suddenly you're a threat to even more people from even further away. which is one of several reasons cops in a lot of places Don't Carry Guns. the rest of the instances of this are either 'the cops are psychos' or 'there was actually a real and present threat that left no other option.') reasonably low odds of getting injured in the process unless said random burglar is a trained swordsman (or has had a lot of practice with his knife, i suppose), kill shots available if necessary, a number of disabling options available... (best one? slam the pommel of the dagger Downward onto his jaw. do it right and the way the jaw moves temporarily cuts off blood flow to the brain, knocking them out. do it wrong, you may have broken their jaw, which is at minimum plenty distracting.)

'course, where i live, use of weaponry is only legit if the dangerous individual in question is using something at least as dangerous (and even then, it's a Defense, not a 'no court case necessary' issue.): blunt steel is a lot further down the list than firearms (heck, even sharp steal is further down the list than firearms.)... there seems to be a bit of a gray area regarding restraining people until the police arrive... you and a buddy tackling a fleeing intruder/burglar/whatever to the ground and holding him down until the cops show up Seems to be legit if a crime actually took place... established fact that the use of firearms to force captured vandals to 'dance' is not legit *laughs* (that one actually happened, though i may be misremembering the details.)

police response times are rubbish, and if they're busy and/or some distance away they're not above getting you to do any part of their job you can without breaking the law For them... no matter how dangerous that actually is to you. though that does seem to be a 'well, you can do this or... you can just ignore it, and we'll assume it's fine, because we're not going to be able to do anything for a while anyway' sort of issue.

not that i'm a lawyer or anything.

-snip-

God damn it took me pretty good time to read that.

[Mike the Progressive]

I'd probably try.

[Mike the Progressive]

i just blow his chavish head off, but unfortunutly i live in the EU where criminals have rights

buericrotic bastards

And he respecting those rights, would leave you alone. Because you know, criminals leave you alone if you don't bother them.

[Free South Califas]

My Father is retired Navy and i am retired Marine Corps............... many of my family are also retired Army. I spent several years in the NRA Youth Program shooting on ranges weekly until my skills approached levels that enabled me to win the High Shooter Award at Parris Island and to shoot a score of 243 out of a possible 250 on rifle qual with the M-16A2 at ranges of 200, 300, and 500 yards once in the Fleet Marines. I have nothing to prove here. I answered the question from the heart and meant it literally. What you choose to believe is up to you. Semper Fi

Whether that's true or not, the apparent glee with which you imagine brutally killing an intruder is disturbing, to say the least. You should seriously look into speaking with a mental health professional before this predilection for violence you seem to have lands you in front of a judge.

Seconded, I'm not here to judge anyone, but it is indeed disturbing.