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Well, looks like Obama didn't go on a spending spree.

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Parpolitic Citizens
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Founded: May 15, 2012
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Postby Parpolitic Citizens » Sun May 27, 2012 8:49 am

Wirbel wrote:
Divair wrote:You're talking about Stalinism, not Communism.


Don't just deny, think about it. They tried to create a Communist society. Corruption created a Stalinist society. Unless you are Jesus of Nazareth, you will not be able to create a communist society without it becoming a messed up place ruled by evil men like Joseph Stalin.


Not so. Marx himself said that it was ill advisable for an agrarian country to try to implement communism. In the post industrial west, we need only try to establish a greater direct democracy and allow the sun, no right to privacy for any elected official full 24/7 surveillance, to sanitize our system.
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Wirbel
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Postby Wirbel » Sun May 27, 2012 8:51 am

Divair wrote:
Wirbel wrote:
Look at the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany and compare that to what current US politicans are trying to do. It might not be exactly the same, but they are corrupt and they want to turn all the citizens into slaves.

Eh, not really. The US is heading to the right and towards authoritarianism, but I don't think it'll ever reach a point at which it could be compared to the USSR or Nazi Germany.


Left and towards Totalitarianism. Why do you think politicians just want to tell you how to live your life? If we are going right, what are all of these bailouts and obamacare and all this other unecessary spending?
Last edited by Wirbel on Sun May 27, 2012 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Costa Fiero wrote:
Soviet Russia Republic wrote:Yes, they could. They'll likely not get seven years.


Nah, they'll probably end up in one of the gulags rehabilitation facilities in Siberia.

Mikoyan-Guryevich wrote:Don't RP that your naval strike force has just launched 1000 fighter jets, this is just pure shit.
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Socialist Ecuador
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Postby Socialist Ecuador » Sun May 27, 2012 8:52 am

Wirbel wrote:
Divair wrote:Stalinists. And you're wrong, but I'll let others address that.

Actually, Stalinists does sound more like US polticians. But they certain people to think of them as communists.

Please elaborate on the evil plan by Congress to turn the U.S into a slave state. How many capitalists have been overthrown and sent to the Gulags so far? How has no one else noticed this? Why are you under the impression most Stalinists are even communists?
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Wirbel
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Postby Wirbel » Sun May 27, 2012 8:54 am

Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
Wirbel wrote:
Don't just deny, think about it. They tried to create a Communist society. Corruption created a Stalinist society. Unless you are Jesus of Nazareth, you will not be able to create a communist society without it becoming a messed up place ruled by evil men like Joseph Stalin.


Not so. Marx himself said that it was ill advisable for an agrarian country to try to implement communism. In the post industrial west, we need only try to establish a greater direct democracy and allow the sun, no right to privacy for any elected official full 24/7 surveillance, to sanitize our system.


Direct Democracy couldn't be that inefficient. I mean, we do have computers to tally up the votes. I also like the 24/7 surveillance. Whenever politcians are in private, they steal taxpayers' money.
Costa Fiero wrote:
Soviet Russia Republic wrote:Yes, they could. They'll likely not get seven years.


Nah, they'll probably end up in one of the gulags rehabilitation facilities in Siberia.

Mikoyan-Guryevich wrote:Don't RP that your naval strike force has just launched 1000 fighter jets, this is just pure shit.
Preferred Type of Gov't:
Insane Evil Fascist Tyranny

Religion:
Science
I roleplay Steampunk and Dieselpunk.

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Melkor Unchained
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Postby Melkor Unchained » Sun May 27, 2012 8:56 am

Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
Melkor Unchained wrote:Yup.

To be honest, I chuckle a bit when I hear conservatives rage about Obama. In 2008 I predicted he would be another business-as-usual president and I was right. My mother can't stand him, and while I'm not exactly a fan myself, I find it hilarious that Republicans suddenly "care" about spending.


What about Obama don't you like?

The wars, but with the role of government as a close second. I wasn't a fan of our meddling at home and abroad under Bush and I'm not a fan now. I was nominally sympathetic to Obama's platform re: Iraq and Afghanistan (the latter having been a legitimate target) in 2008, but enough is enough. I was under the impression he was supposed to be the "dove-ish" of our options four years ago. Also, with the Affordable Care Act and its subsequent defense in the Supreme Court, the administration now has to take the position that it is okay to mandate that the citizen purchase a product for public health reasons. Whether one endorses this particular act or not, she should still be alert to such a ruling's larger meaning in a legal system that depends so faithfully on precedent.

Incidentally, the ACA has the potential to end my healthcare benefits through my employer. Our contracts are up for negotiation this year (I work at a UPS hub, so I'm a Teamster) and apparently it might be cheaper for the company to just kill the part-timer's health package, give everyone a one-time $1-2 raise to "compensate" and just pay the fines. My current package--full medical, dental, vision, prescription--is way better than anything I will be able to afford in the free market.
"I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair."

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Parpolitic Citizens
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Postby Parpolitic Citizens » Sun May 27, 2012 9:11 am

Wirbel wrote:
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
Not so. Marx himself said that it was ill advisable for an agrarian country to try to implement communism. In the post industrial west, we need only try to establish a greater direct democracy and allow the sun, no right to privacy for any elected official full 24/7 surveillance, to sanitize our system.


Direct Democracy couldn't be that inefficient. I mean, we do have computers to tally up the votes. I also like the 24/7 surveillance. Whenever politcians are in private, they steal taxpayers' money.


See, there is a little seed of communism within all of us.
Damned commie
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun May 27, 2012 9:31 am

Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
Wirbel wrote:
Direct Democracy couldn't be that inefficient. I mean, we do have computers to tally up the votes. I also like the 24/7 surveillance. Whenever politcians are in private, they steal taxpayers' money.


See, there is a little seed of communism within all of us.

Everyone with a brain loves actual communism. Problem is reaching it (Personally, my solution is taking volunteers to another planet to start a communist society)

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Wamitoria
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Postby Wamitoria » Sun May 27, 2012 9:31 am

Melkor Unchained wrote:Incidentally, the ACA has the potential to end my healthcare benefits through my employer. Our contracts are up for negotiation this year (I work at a UPS hub, so I'm a Teamster) and apparently it might be cheaper for the company to just kill the part-timer's health package, give everyone a one-time $1-2 raise to "compensate" and just pay the fines. My current package--full medical, dental, vision, prescription--is way better than anything I will be able to afford in the free market.

I'm pretty sure that's fraud.

Your employer is stupid.
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Wamitoria
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Postby Wamitoria » Sun May 27, 2012 9:34 am

Divair wrote:
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
See, there is a little seed of communism within all of us.

Everyone with a brain loves actual communism.

I didn't realize that I had no brain.
Wonder where all the good posters went? Look no further!

Hurry, before the Summer Nazis show up again!

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Laissez-Faire
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Postby Laissez-Faire » Sun May 27, 2012 9:35 am

Divair wrote:
Wirbel wrote:
Cutting spending would help in the long run and keep the economy out of holes. Most people only look in the short run. They think: BIG SPENDING= FREE MONEY= GOOD ECONOMY. Yeah, for a few years. And then you get into a hole like we are in now.

Again, just like when FDR did it, huh?

FDR was far from the reason for economic improvement, and did little to maintain any shred of it.
Sanguinthium wrote:and then the government abolishes itself after its purpose has been served
Vestr-Norig wrote:I'm sorry, I am not familiar with your highbrow words.
Greater Evil Imperial Japanese Dystopia wrote:Ah, how heavenly & masturbatable must unregulated capitalism be!
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:You're one of the most disingenuous people I've seen here.
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:Do you see any value in human dignity or happiness? I'm not trolling. I'm seriously wondering if you're a sociopath.

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Laissez-Faire
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Postby Laissez-Faire » Sun May 27, 2012 9:36 am

Divair wrote:
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
See, there is a little seed of communism within all of us.

Everyone with a brain loves actual communism. Problem is reaching it (Personally, my solution is taking volunteers to another planet to start a communist society)

Yes, because only communism has the true moral imperative to exist on the earth.
Sanguinthium wrote:and then the government abolishes itself after its purpose has been served
Vestr-Norig wrote:I'm sorry, I am not familiar with your highbrow words.
Greater Evil Imperial Japanese Dystopia wrote:Ah, how heavenly & masturbatable must unregulated capitalism be!
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:You're one of the most disingenuous people I've seen here.
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:Do you see any value in human dignity or happiness? I'm not trolling. I'm seriously wondering if you're a sociopath.

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Parpolitic Citizens
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Postby Parpolitic Citizens » Sun May 27, 2012 9:37 am

Wamitoria wrote:
Divair wrote:Everyone with a brain loves actual communism.

I didn't realize that I had no brain.


Whats wrong with communism?
Damned commie
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun May 27, 2012 9:38 am

Laissez-Faire wrote:
Divair wrote:Again, just like when FDR did it, huh?

FDR was far from the reason for economic improvement, and did little to maintain any shred of it.

Prove it.

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Parpolitic Citizens
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Postby Parpolitic Citizens » Sun May 27, 2012 9:39 am

Laissez-Faire wrote:
Divair wrote:Everyone with a brain loves actual communism. Problem is reaching it (Personally, my solution is taking volunteers to another planet to start a communist society)

Yes, because only communism has the true moral imperative to exist on the earth.


As opposed to the slavery of arachno-capitalism?
Damned commie
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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Sun May 27, 2012 9:45 am

Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
Laissez-Faire wrote:Yes, because only communism has the true moral imperative to exist on the earth.


As opposed to the slavery of arachno-capitalism?


Yes, we are all slaves of a spider-based economy. Oops, I better go collect more flies before our spider masters get angry.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sun May 27, 2012 9:48 am

Gauthier wrote:
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
As opposed to the slavery of arachno-capitalism?


Yes, we are all slaves of a spider-based economy. Oops, I better go collect more flies before our spider masters get angry.

Next thing you know the right wing spiders will protest for less taxation on spider webs!

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Parpolitic Citizens
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Postby Parpolitic Citizens » Sun May 27, 2012 9:55 am

Gauthier wrote:
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
As opposed to the slavery of arachno-capitalism?


Yes, we are all slaves of a spider-based economy. Oops, I better go collect more flies before our spider masters get angry.


:oops: Anarcho-capitalism I mean.
Damned commie
Economic Left/Right: -8.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.92

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Laissez-Faire
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Postby Laissez-Faire » Sun May 27, 2012 10:29 am

Divair wrote:
Laissez-Faire wrote:FDR was far from the reason for economic improvement, and did little to maintain any shred of it.

Prove it.

The New Deal as an economic stimulus package was poor at helping end the Great Depression, and largely only extended the depression until something circumstantial could be found.

FDR's government spending campaign did little to actually help.

Image

And before you say that WWII policies helped the status quo-

Image

You are the one citing it as an imperative, you prove it.
Last edited by Laissez-Faire on Sun May 27, 2012 10:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sanguinthium wrote:and then the government abolishes itself after its purpose has been served
Vestr-Norig wrote:I'm sorry, I am not familiar with your highbrow words.
Greater Evil Imperial Japanese Dystopia wrote:Ah, how heavenly & masturbatable must unregulated capitalism be!
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:You're one of the most disingenuous people I've seen here.
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:Do you see any value in human dignity or happiness? I'm not trolling. I'm seriously wondering if you're a sociopath.

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Laissez-Faire
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Postby Laissez-Faire » Sun May 27, 2012 10:29 am

Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
Laissez-Faire wrote:Yes, because only communism has the true moral imperative to exist on the earth.


As opposed to the slavery of arachno-capitalism?

Heh. Yes, slavery it is. And communism is complete liberty.
Sanguinthium wrote:and then the government abolishes itself after its purpose has been served
Vestr-Norig wrote:I'm sorry, I am not familiar with your highbrow words.
Greater Evil Imperial Japanese Dystopia wrote:Ah, how heavenly & masturbatable must unregulated capitalism be!
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:You're one of the most disingenuous people I've seen here.
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:Do you see any value in human dignity or happiness? I'm not trolling. I'm seriously wondering if you're a sociopath.

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Melkor Unchained
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Postby Melkor Unchained » Sun May 27, 2012 10:44 am

Wamitoria wrote:
Melkor Unchained wrote:Incidentally, the ACA has the potential to end my healthcare benefits through my employer. Our contracts are up for negotiation this year (I work at a UPS hub, so I'm a Teamster) and apparently it might be cheaper for the company to just kill the part-timer's health package, give everyone a one-time $1-2 raise to "compensate" and just pay the fines. My current package--full medical, dental, vision, prescription--is way better than anything I will be able to afford in the free market.

I'm pretty sure that's fraud.

Your employer is stupid.

Fraud?

Image

Incidentally, what's "stupid" about that? Wouldn't it be stupider to keep the plan if it's that much more expensive and (thanks to ACA) now obsolete?
"I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair."

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Parpolitic Citizens
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Postby Parpolitic Citizens » Sun May 27, 2012 10:51 am

Laissez-Faire wrote:
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
As opposed to the slavery of arachno-capitalism?

Heh. Yes, slavery it is. And communism is complete liberty.


Communism is the ultimate form of freedom possible. Your so called freedom is the ability of the rich to enslave the poor.
Damned commie
Economic Left/Right: -8.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.92

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Parpolitic Citizens
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Postby Parpolitic Citizens » Sun May 27, 2012 11:02 am

Laissez-Faire wrote:
Divair wrote:Prove it.

And before you say that WWII policies helped the status quo-

Image

You are the one citing it as an imperative, you prove it.


Because increasing employment did nothing. Because increasing the total amount of money in the hands of workers did nothing. Because more workers with more money buying things in a consumption based economy did nothing. Because we totally paid for WWII as the spending happened.

You're one of the most disingenuous people I've seen here.
Damned commie
Economic Left/Right: -8.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.92

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Melkor Unchained
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Postby Melkor Unchained » Sun May 27, 2012 11:14 am

Parpolitic Citizens wrote:Because increasing employment did nothing. Because increasing the total amount of money in the hands of workers did nothing. Because more workers with more money buying things in a consumption based economy did nothing. Because we totally paid for WWII as the spending happened.

Well to be fair, just increasing employment doesn't always get anything done. I work in a shipping hub: we could increase employment if we got rid of all our conveyor belts, but it would be hard or impossible to pay a wage worth the work (which is hard enough already) and the company would collapse. Also, we weren't really much of a consumer based economy until after the things you describe took place.
"I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will. But upon all whom you love my thought shall weigh as a cloud of Doom, and it shall bring them down into darkness and despair."

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Laissez-Faire
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Founded: Oct 29, 2011
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Postby Laissez-Faire » Sun May 27, 2012 1:19 pm

Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
Laissez-Faire wrote:Heh. Yes, slavery it is. And communism is complete liberty.


Communism is the ultimate form of freedom possible. Your so called freedom is the ability of the rich to enslave the poor.

That's called corporatism, which is the lovely form of government.

Communism keeps the individual strapped down with the 'security' of having 'no worries'.
Sanguinthium wrote:and then the government abolishes itself after its purpose has been served
Vestr-Norig wrote:I'm sorry, I am not familiar with your highbrow words.
Greater Evil Imperial Japanese Dystopia wrote:Ah, how heavenly & masturbatable must unregulated capitalism be!
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:You're one of the most disingenuous people I've seen here.
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:Do you see any value in human dignity or happiness? I'm not trolling. I'm seriously wondering if you're a sociopath.

User avatar
Laissez-Faire
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Founded: Oct 29, 2011
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Postby Laissez-Faire » Sun May 27, 2012 1:22 pm

Parpolitic Citizens wrote:
Laissez-Faire wrote:And before you say that WWII policies helped the status quo-

Image

You are the one citing it as an imperative, you prove it.


Because increasing employment did nothing. Because increasing the total amount of money in the hands of workers did nothing. Because more workers with more money buying things in a consumption based economy did nothing. Because we totally paid for WWII as the spending happened.

Because FDR ultimately did none of that in reality. Sure, he sent out stimulus packages. Theoretically, that should bring back the revenues. It didn't, because a single stimulus program shouldn't hope to help, and a whole series of multiple stimulus packages couldn't hope to repair the real structural issues in an economy.

Private employment, or public employment and works?

You're one of the most disingenuous people I've seen here.

I'm going to have to sig that, sir. Obviously you haven't met very many NSGers.

In that way, I'll take that as a compliment.
Sanguinthium wrote:and then the government abolishes itself after its purpose has been served
Vestr-Norig wrote:I'm sorry, I am not familiar with your highbrow words.
Greater Evil Imperial Japanese Dystopia wrote:Ah, how heavenly & masturbatable must unregulated capitalism be!
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:You're one of the most disingenuous people I've seen here.
Parpolitic Citizens wrote:Do you see any value in human dignity or happiness? I'm not trolling. I'm seriously wondering if you're a sociopath.

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