NATION

PASSWORD

I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Free Soviets
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11256
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Free Soviets » Sun May 31, 2009 1:07 pm

Doctor Who Performed Abortions Is Shot to Death

Dr. George Tiller, one of the nation's few late-term-abortion providers, was killed Sunday in church.

Dr. Tiller, who had performed abortions since the 1970s, had long been a lightning rod for controversy over the issue of abortion, particularly in Kansas, where abortion opponents regularly protested outside his clinic and sometimes his home and church. In 1993, he was shot in both arms by an abortion opponent but recovered.

He had also been the subject of many efforts at prosecution, including a citizen-initiated grand jury investigation. In the latest such effort, in March, Dr. Tiller was acquitted of charges that he had performed late-term abortions that violated state law.

The shooting occurred at around 10 a.m. (Central time) at Reformation Lutheran Church on the city’s East Side, Dr. Tiller’s regular church.

Wichita police said that the shots were fired from a handgun in the church lobby during the morning service.


and things had been so quite on the anti-abortion terrorism front recently. like for almost a decade, actually...

i'm sure the extremist and eliminationist rhetoric the USian right has been screaming relentlessly since losing power is doing loads to avoid this sort of thing. you know, like how it worked to calm that guy that shot those cops in pittsburgh because the government was gonna steal his guns any day now.

User avatar
Techno-Soviet
Senator
 
Posts: 3785
Founded: Jan 19, 2009
Ex-Nation

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Techno-Soviet » Sun May 31, 2009 1:20 pm

That's terrible. I hope whoever shot him gets life in prison with no parole.
[align=center]Economic Tyranny/Libertarian: 6.38
Social Libertarian/Tyranny: -3.33

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Ashmoria » Sun May 31, 2009 1:23 pm

no

the vandalizing of his facility counted as terrorism (since it was designed to scare him into closing his practice)

this is murder.
whatever

User avatar
Newer Burmecia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 154
Founded: Apr 04, 2007
Ex-Nation

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Newer Burmecia » Sun May 31, 2009 1:28 pm

Without meaning to be flippant, am I the only person who thinks it ironic that a Christian fundementalist murdered someone in a church on Sunday?

Without also meaning to be flippant, my first response would be to repeal that pointless partial-birth abortion ban.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10904
Founded: May 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby The Romulan Republic » Sun May 31, 2009 1:33 pm

Newer Burmecia wrote:Without also meaning to be flippant, my first response would be to repeal that pointless partial-birth abortion ban.


Why?

Edit: I don't want to derail this thread into an abortion debate, even if its only on one type of abortion (though that's probably going to happen anyway). If need be, I will be happy to take up this discussion in another thread.
Last edited by The Romulan Republic on Sun May 31, 2009 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - President Abraham Lincoln.

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Ashmoria » Sun May 31, 2009 1:34 pm

Newer Burmecia wrote:Without meaning to be flippant, am I the only person who thinks it ironic that a Christian fundementalist murdered someone in a church on Sunday?

Without also meaning to be flippant, my first response would be to repeal that pointless partial-birth abortion ban.

i expect that the murderer is a weak minded anti-abortion nutcase who was goaded into action by listening to too much bill o'reilly and that the recent aquittal of dr tiller on bullshit charges pushed him over the edge.

he is probably mentally incapable of figuring out that the murder of an inconvenient doctor is not "pro-life".
whatever

User avatar
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1754
Founded: Mar 31, 2005
Ex-Nation

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby H N Fiddlebottoms VIII » Sun May 31, 2009 1:42 pm

Assassination, like anything else, only counts as terrorism if the goal is to create a general environment of fear, which is why terrorists tend to leave notes, send letters to newspapers, or at least stick around to rant after their deed. If you're just shooting someone because they piss you off (and this guy apparently pisses a lot of people off), then that's just murder.

Newer Burmecia wrote:Without meaning to be flippant, am I the only person who thinks it ironic that a Christian fundementalist murdered someone in a church on Sunday?

It wasn't necessarily a fundamentalist, he could have been a snake-handler or Catholic.
Stuck somewhere between high school and old school.
Here's some bullshit I write. Maybe you want to read it?

User avatar
Greeen Havens
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Dr Tiller, murdered.

Postby Greeen Havens » Sun May 31, 2009 2:34 pm

Dr Tiller has been murdered.

http://www.kansas.com/news/breaking/story/833730.html

From another report that I had read, the murderer had gone to that church to figure out the best time to kill him.
Its first degree murder AND a hate crime.

I'd post more, but. i am furious, and angry over this happening.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Re: Dr Tiller, murdered.

Postby Galloism » Sun May 31, 2009 2:35 pm

Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Charlotte Ryberg
The Muse of the Westcountry
 
Posts: 15007
Founded: Mar 14, 2007
Civil Rights Lovefest

Re: Dr Tiller, murdered.

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Sun May 31, 2009 2:36 pm

Both in and out of character, I see no rationale for the killing. >:(
Last edited by Charlotte Ryberg on Sun May 31, 2009 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Falsonia
Envoy
 
Posts: 264
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: Dr Tiller, murdered.

Postby Falsonia » Sun May 31, 2009 2:37 pm

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:Both in and out of character, I see no rationale for the killing. >:(


...

This is General. There is no IC.

User avatar
Skama
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 150
Founded: Oct 28, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Skama » Sun May 31, 2009 2:38 pm

Ashmoria wrote:i expect that the murderer is a weak minded anti-abortion nutcase who was goaded into action by listening to too much bill o'reilly and that the recent aquittal of dr tiller on bullshit charges pushed him over the edge.

he is probably mentally incapable of figuring out that the murder of an inconvenient doctor is not "pro-life".
No, try to get from his point of view. Suppose there's a baby-killer in town. I don't think that someone is "weak minded" if he shoots him, do you?

He's not pro-life, why the hell does everyone think it's only 2 sides in there? Many people are anti-abortion, aka anti-killing, at least in their perspectives.

User avatar
Falsonia
Envoy
 
Posts: 264
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Falsonia » Sun May 31, 2009 2:40 pm

Skama wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:i expect that the murderer is a weak minded anti-abortion nutcase who was goaded into action by listening to too much bill o'reilly and that the recent aquittal of dr tiller on bullshit charges pushed him over the edge.

he is probably mentally incapable of figuring out that the murder of an inconvenient doctor is not "pro-life".
No, try to get from his point of view. Suppose there's a baby-killer in town. I don't think that someone is "weak minded" if he shoots him, do you?

He's not pro-life, why the hell does everyone think it's only 2 sides in there? Many people are anti-abortion, aka anti-killing, at least in their perspectives.


Yes. I do. Vigilante justice is illegal for a reason.

User avatar
Charlotte Ryberg
The Muse of the Westcountry
 
Posts: 15007
Founded: Mar 14, 2007
Civil Rights Lovefest

Re: Dr Tiller, murdered.

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Sun May 31, 2009 2:40 pm

Falsonia wrote:
Charlotte Ryberg wrote:Both in and out of character, I see no rationale for the killing. >:(


...

This is General. There is no IC.

Well either way this is an appalling tragedy and it is absolutely no way to solve the abortion issue in such a radical way.

User avatar
Skama
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 150
Founded: Oct 28, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: Dr Tiller, murdered.

Postby Skama » Sun May 31, 2009 2:40 pm

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:Both in and out of character, I see no rationale for the killing. >:(
The person who shot killed a murderer, at least in his viewpoint. Dr. Tiller = serial baby-killer :p

User avatar
Greeen Havens
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Greeen Havens » Sun May 31, 2009 2:46 pm

I have started a duplicate thread. I did not see this when I started the other one. :palm:

to answer your question, yes, the murder of Dr Tiller IS domestic terrorism.
The :twisted: pro-lifers who will cheer this news, (and yes, I do believe that they will consider this murder to be a thing to be celebrated-) will yowl up storms should this be properly tried as a case of domestic terrorism via assassination.

User avatar
Greeen Havens
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Greeen Havens » Sun May 31, 2009 2:51 pm

Newer Burmecia wrote:Without meaning to be flippant, am I the only person who thinks it ironic that a Christian fundementalist murdered someone in a church on Sunday?

Without also meaning to be flippant, my first response would be to repeal that pointless partial-birth abortion ban.


Sigh, it is ironic. and no, I don't see it as being flippant. :shock:

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Ashmoria » Sun May 31, 2009 2:57 pm

Skama wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:i expect that the murderer is a weak minded anti-abortion nutcase who was goaded into action by listening to too much bill o'reilly and that the recent aquittal of dr tiller on bullshit charges pushed him over the edge.

he is probably mentally incapable of figuring out that the murder of an inconvenient doctor is not "pro-life".
No, try to get from his point of view. Suppose there's a baby-killer in town. I don't think that someone is "weak minded" if he shoots him, do you?

He's not pro-life, why the hell does everyone think it's only 2 sides in there? Many people are anti-abortion, aka anti-killing, at least in their perspectives.

the guy has been in town providing abortions for...decades? why murder him NOW? what has happened but that he was not convicted of abortion malpractice (im not sure what the charges were) and (ive read that) bill o'reilly is ranting about this babykiller on his show over and over again.
whatever

User avatar
Skama
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 150
Founded: Oct 28, 2008
Ex-Nation

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Skama » Sun May 31, 2009 2:58 pm

Take some guts to do it. Maybe he didn't have the guts before?

User avatar
Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Ashmoria » Sun May 31, 2009 3:01 pm

Skama wrote:Take some guts to do it. Maybe he didn't have the guts before?

since we dont know who did it, we cant say for sure why he did it.

it may have been that dr tiller had been stepping out with his wife for all we know.
whatever

User avatar
Aral
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Aral » Sun May 31, 2009 3:15 pm

Skama wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:i expect that the murderer is a weak minded anti-abortion nutcase who was goaded into action by listening to too much bill o'reilly and that the recent aquittal of dr tiller on bullshit charges pushed him over the edge.

he is probably mentally incapable of figuring out that the murder of an inconvenient doctor is not "pro-life".
No, try to get from his point of view. Suppose there's a baby-killer in town. I don't think that someone is "weak minded" if he shoots him, do you?

He's not pro-life, why the hell does everyone think it's only 2 sides in there? Many people are anti-abortion, aka anti-killing, at least in their perspectives.


Uhm, maybe because pro-fetal lifers have pulled this crap off before? "Army of God" idiots ring a bell??
I bet that if you ask that murderer why he shot Dr Tiller, he is gonna say at sometime that he is pro-life.

Do any of these names ring a bell? Dr. David Gunn, Dr. John Britton, James Barrett, Robert Sanderson, Dr. Barnett Slepian . Dr George Patterson (?) for starters. There are more. sigh. The last may have just been a robbery victim. His killer was never found.

Another shocking fact for you...
since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.


User avatar
SaintB
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21792
Founded: Apr 18, 2007
Ex-Nation

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby SaintB » Sun May 31, 2009 3:34 pm

Maurepas wrote::palm:

Why? >:(

Because fundementalism trumps reason is one possible answer.
Because the perpetrator is metally ill and beleives that what he did was right is the most likely case scenario in my opinion.

Or maybe... just maybe... the muderer was one of the many fetuses he aborted throughout his life that somehow survived and grew to adulthood; the angry and confused adult that grew up from this abandoned embryo has finally gained its long sought after revenge.
Hi my name is SaintB and I am prone to sarcasm and hyperbole. Because of this I make no warranties, express or implied, concerning the accuracy, completeness, reliability or suitability of the above statement, of its constituent parts, or of any supporting data. These terms are subject to change without notice from myself.

Every day NationStates tells me I have one issue. I am pretty sure I've got more than that.

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby Galloism » Sun May 31, 2009 3:35 pm

SaintB wrote:Or maybe... just maybe... the muderer was one of the many fetuses he aborted throughout his life that somehow survived and grew to adulthood; the angry and confused adult that grew up from this abandoned embryo has finally gained its long sought after revenge.


:p Galloism approves of this hypothesis.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
SaintB
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21792
Founded: Apr 18, 2007
Ex-Nation

Re: I Forget, Does Assassination Count as Terrorism?

Postby SaintB » Sun May 31, 2009 3:39 pm

Galloism wrote:
SaintB wrote:Or maybe... just maybe... the muderer was one of the many fetuses he aborted throughout his life that somehow survived and grew to adulthood; the angry and confused adult that grew up from this abandoned embryo has finally gained its long sought after revenge.


:p Galloism approves of this hypothesis.

The police should definitely pursue that angle first.
Hi my name is SaintB and I am prone to sarcasm and hyperbole. Because of this I make no warranties, express or implied, concerning the accuracy, completeness, reliability or suitability of the above statement, of its constituent parts, or of any supporting data. These terms are subject to change without notice from myself.

Every day NationStates tells me I have one issue. I am pretty sure I've got more than that.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aadhiris, Cyptopir, Dimetrodon Empire, Ethel mermania, Fartsniffage, General TN, Ifreann, Kreushia, Port Carverton, Shearoa, Shidei, Statesburg, Three Galaxies, Trump Almighty, Tungstan

Advertisement

Remove ads