Americans Becoming More Pro-Life

[Occupied Deutschland]

I consider myself and voted "pro-life". But I have a suspicion my own feelings on the matter may be what produced this poll. I consider myself pro-life, but I don't want laws stopping abortion. I glanced through and it looks like the poll question was just "13. With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life?"

That may be partially what contributed to the results, possibly supported by the steadiness in the percentage of people who find it "morally wrong".
*shrug* I dunnow...

[Deus Regis Tyrannorum (Ancient)]

Organ Donation isn't the same as Pregnancy (though it does fit into the Liberal/Pro-"Choice" MO about how pregnancy is an "illness"),

Well, want a suit for THAT strawman?

[Alaje]

Rights > "efficient" state.

Also, cool that he apparently supports Nazi Germany...

Wrong, again with the assuming. I don't support Nazis, that's like saying I support Pre-CIvil Rights USA...which, being an African-American, wouldn't make sense. Nor am I anti-emotion or anti-individuality, I simply don't view things as MORE = BETTER, that's includes freedom.

I was pointing out that an effiecient state need not respect your "rights" to anything. Hence, rights do not inherently lead to the progress of a state....

[Deus Regis Tyrannorum (Ancient)]

He believes in ultimate efficiency of the species. Lack of emotion, I'm thinking.

Actually, I think he believes that not having any rights or individualism makes people work more.
Doesn't make sense.

Uh, he's a fascist. He's not supposed to make sense.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Also, cool that he apparently supports Nazi Germany...

Wrong, again with the assuming. I don't support Nazis, that's like saying I support Pre-CIvil Rights USA...which, being an African-American, wouldn't make sense. Nor am I anti-emotion or anti-individuality, I simply don't view things as MORE = BETTER, that's includes freedom.

Again, which freedoms are detrimental to society?
You've already said you support limited individuality, like clothing and music choice, but you think that "too much" individuality is "harmful" to society.

[Alaje]

Actually, I think he believes that not having any rights or individualism makes people work more.
Doesn't make sense.

Uh, he's a fascist. He's not supposed to make sense.

Of course, any ideology that isn't Liberalism doesn't make sense.

Please, GTFO if you're not going to contribute to the discussion.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Bout time.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Uh, he's a fascist. He's not supposed to make sense.

Of course, any ideology that isn't Liberalism doesn't make sense.

Please, GTFO if you're not going to contribute to the discussion.

Fascism certainly doesn't.

[Deus Regis Tyrannorum (Ancient)]

Uh, he's a fascist. He's not supposed to make sense.

Of course, any ideology that isn't Liberalism doesn't make sense.

Please, GTFO if you're not going to contribute to the discussion.

Depriving others from their rights without any real reason why doesn't make sense. Sorry for not being specific enough.

But about this discussion: pro-choice, non-american, women have their rights you know...

EDIT: Also, define liberalism (as americans see it i.e. leftism or actual liberalism, the ideology of freedom).

[Occupied Deutschland]

Of course, any ideology that isn't Liberalism doesn't make sense.

Please, GTFO if you're not going to contribute to the discussion.

Depriving others from their rights without any real reason why doesn't make sense(1). Sorry for not being specific enough.

But about this discussion: pro-choice, non-american, women have their rights you know...

1: I am not a facist, but that's unfair. His reasoning is (likely) "efficiency" (I think he even said that). Now while I or you might not find that reason sufficient to abrogate freedoms, it IS a reason and a fairly held one at that.

But yeah, back to the topic at hand.

[Deus Regis Tyrannorum (Ancient)]

Depriving others from their rights without any real reason why doesn't make sense(1). Sorry for not being specific enough.

But about this discussion: pro-choice, non-american, women have their rights you know...

1: I am not a facist, but that's unfair. His reasoning is (likely) "efficiency" (I think he even said that). Now while I or you might not find that reason sufficient to abrogate freedoms, it IS a reason and a fairly held one at that.

But yeah, back to the topic at hand.

He thinks that totalitarian systems advocating centrally planned economy, ultra-nationalism, militarism and anti-liberalism, -conservatism, -communism or what the hell, anti-EVERYTHING that isn't fascism is efficient? Hardly.

[Deus Regis Tyrannorum (Ancient)]

Wrong, again with the assuming. I don't support Nazis, that's like saying I support Pre-CIvil Rights USA...which, being an African-American, wouldn't make sense. Nor am I anti-emotion or anti-individuality, I simply don't view things as MORE = BETTER, that's includes freedom.

Again, which freedoms are detrimental to society?
You've already said you support limited individuality, like clothing and music choice, but you think that "too much" individuality is "harmful" to society.

Freedom of having certain properties one cannot change, like gender and sexuality.

[Alaje]

Of course, any ideology that isn't Liberalism doesn't make sense.

Please, GTFO if you're not going to contribute to the discussion.

Fascism certainly doesn't.

Actually, it does more so than either Liberalism or Conservatism. People misunderstand Fascism itself and the idea behind its doctrine. I'm not a traditional Fascist to begin with anyway, I view it in a different light than most of us. I'm quite a bit more moderate than all the other Fascists I know.

[Raeyh]

Again, which freedoms are detrimental to society?
You've already said you support limited individuality, like clothing and music choice, but you think that "too much" individuality is "harmful" to society.

Freedom of having certain properties one cannot change, like gender and sexuality.

While you can't change your sex or what you are attracted to sexually, you can change the way you present yourself.

[Laerod]

Fascism certainly doesn't.

Actually, it does more so than either Liberalism or Conservatism. People misunderstand Fascism itself and the idea behind its doctrine. I'm not a traditional Fascist to begin with anyway, I view it in a different light than most of us. I'm quite a bit more moderate than all the other Fascists I know.

Our fascisms are different?

[The Jahistic Unified Republic]

I consider myself and voted "pro-life". But I have a suspicion my own feelings on the matter may be what produced this poll. I consider myself pro-life, but I don't want laws stopping abortion. I glanced through and it looks like the poll question was just "13. With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life?"

That may be partially what contributed to the results, possibly supported by the steadiness in the percentage of people who find it "morally wrong".
*shrug* I dunnow...

That is what I call a "John Kerry" Stance. John Kerry (D-MA) supports Pro Choice laws (or lack of pro life laws) but is personally pro life.

[Alaje]

Actually, it does more so than either Liberalism or Conservatism. People misunderstand Fascism itself and the idea behind its doctrine. I'm not a traditional Fascist to begin with anyway, I view it in a different light than most of us. I'm quite a bit more moderate than all the other Fascists I know.

Our fascisms are different?

Are you trolling me, or are you a Fascist?

[Hallistar]

I am be Pro-Choice and will continue to be until a Fetus actually says he has rights on an Ultrasound.

Why not kill everyone who can't talk?

Lets do some comparisons:

Fetus: Is just a chemical structure, does not know or think anything, is just there, never had anything to lose

Everyone else who can't talk: Already is sentient, metacognitive, yet disabled

[The Jahistic Unified Republic]

Why not kill everyone who can't talk?

Lets do some comparisons:

Fetus: Is just a chemical structure, does not know or think anything, is just there, never had anything to lose

Everyone else who can't talk: Already is sentient, metacognitive, yet disabled

I don't mean to attack, but what if Einstein was aborted, what if MLK, JFK, etc etc were aborted. I know that ethical and cleanse abortion techniques did not exist back then, but it makes me wonder. That "chemical structure" could go on to be the being that cures cancer, you just don't know. Just some food for thought.

[Farnhamia]

Lets do some comparisons:

Fetus: Is just a chemical structure, does not know or think anything, is just there, never had anything to lose

Everyone else who can't talk: Already is sentient, metacognitive, yet disabled

I don't mean to attack, but what if Einstein was aborted, what if MLK, JFK, etc etc were aborted. I know that ethical and cleanse abortion techniques did not exist back then, but it makes me wonder. That "chemical structure" could go on to be the being that cures cancer, you just don't know. Just some food for thought.

No, it's not food for anything, it's an empty proposition. You can't know what the ultimate outcome of any individual pregnancy might be, so it's pointless to speculate. Should we make women bear children on spec? That's worse than making them bear children because someone else's morals are offended.

[Laerod]

I consider myself and voted "pro-life". But I have a suspicion my own feelings on the matter may be what produced this poll. I consider myself pro-life, but I don't want laws stopping abortion. I glanced through and it looks like the poll question was just "13. With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life?"

That may be partially what contributed to the results, possibly supported by the steadiness in the percentage of people who find it "morally wrong".
*shrug* I dunnow...

That is what I call a "John Kerry" Stance. John Kerry (D-MA) supports Pro Choice laws (or lack of pro life laws) but is personally pro life.

What you're describing is essentially pro choice.

Our fascisms are different?

Are you trolling me, or are you a Fascist?

Neither. I'm simply amused by how your argumentation resembles certain articles on TV Tropes.

[Aggicificicerous]

Lets do some comparisons:

Fetus: Is just a chemical structure, does not know or think anything, is just there, never had anything to lose

Everyone else who can't talk: Already is sentient, metacognitive, yet disabled

I don't mean to attack, but what if Einstein was aborted, what if MLK, JFK, etc etc were aborted. I know that ethical and cleanse abortion techniques did not exist back then, but it makes me wonder. That "chemical structure" could go on to be the being that cures cancer, you just don't know. Just some food for thought.

What if *insert random bad person here* had been aborted? That isn't a convincing argument.

[Laerod]

Lets do some comparisons:

Fetus: Is just a chemical structure, does not know or think anything, is just there, never had anything to lose

Everyone else who can't talk: Already is sentient, metacognitive, yet disabled

I don't mean to attack, but what if Einstein was aborted, what if MLK, JFK, etc etc were aborted. I know that ethical and cleanse abortion techniques did not exist back then, but it makes me wonder. That "chemical structure" could go on to be the being that cures cancer, you just don't know. Just some food for thought.

Conversely what if Ghengis Khan, Adolf Hitler, Elizabeth Bathory, Charles Manson, etc. had been aborted?

[The Steel Magnolia]

Lets do some comparisons:

Fetus: Is just a chemical structure, does not know or think anything, is just there, never had anything to lose

Everyone else who can't talk: Already is sentient, metacognitive, yet disabled

I don't mean to attack, but what if Einstein was aborted, what if MLK, JFK, etc etc were aborted. I know that ethical and cleanse abortion techniques did not exist back then, but it makes me wonder. That "chemical structure" could go on to be the being that cures cancer, you just don't know. Just some food for thought.

Or the next Stalin/Hitler/Pol-Pot/Random Dictator. Don't try that argument.

[Alaje]

Are you trolling me, or are you a Fascist?

Neither. I'm simply amused by how your argumentation resembles certain articles on TV Tropes.

AH, TV tropes, good taste sir.