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Americans Becoming More Pro-Life

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On the issue of abortion, do you consider yourself pro-life or pro-choice?

Pro-life (American)
255
25%
Pro-life (non-American)
65
6%
Pro-choice (American)
391
39%
Pro-choice (non-American)
245
24%
No opinion (American)
28
3%
No opinion (non-American)
17
2%
 
Total votes : 1001
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Ovisterra
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Postby Ovisterra » Thu May 24, 2012 10:11 am

Alaje wrote:
Divair wrote:Because morals are subjective.


If that's the case no one's morals matter, and all laws are subjective.


No one's morals matter to anyone but the person themselves.

Also, laws =/= morals.
Removing the text from people's sigs doesn't make it any less true. I stand with Yalta.
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Avenio
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Postby Avenio » Thu May 24, 2012 10:12 am

Auralia wrote:This begs the question - why apply moral standards to yourself but not others?


Matthew 7:1?
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Disserbia
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Postby Disserbia » Thu May 24, 2012 10:13 am

pro-choice, not American by birth but I have citizenship.
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Laerod
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Postby Laerod » Thu May 24, 2012 10:13 am

Auralia wrote:
Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:personal morality =/= what you think others should do.


This begs the question - why apply moral standards to yourself but not others?

Is the idea of not being interested in doing everything that you believe a society should allow so foreign a concept to you?
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Safhaven
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Postby Safhaven » Thu May 24, 2012 10:15 am

Christian Democrats wrote:NSG, why do you think support for the American right-to-life movement is growing?

Counties on the verge of collapse tend to fold back into conservatism to hold on to whatever way of life they consider "traditional". It's what destroyed the catholic church in europe, it's what destroyed the sultanate and it's what destroyed many other ideologies. Furthermore extreme rightwing ideologies tend to invade other countries, which is exactly what america tends to do under republican presidents. If americans are becoming more conservative, it means americans have a gut feeling that american hegemony is about over, americans know that their economy is going to collapse and they try to hold on to straws.

Progressive ideas are how nations survive. I sure hope america proves to be smart enough to keep democrats in power for at least 12 years to give the USA a chance to recover it's declining influence.
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Alaje
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Postby Alaje » Thu May 24, 2012 10:16 am

Divair wrote:
Alaje wrote:
If that's the case no one's morals matter, and all laws are subjective.

Morals =/= laws.

Laws = based on rights and occasionally efficiency/survival.


Wrong, all laws are based on morality, otherwise we wouldn't be arguing about "rights". "Rights" are irrelevant to a functioning and efficient state.......i.e Nazi Germany, Pre-Civil RIghts USA, Imperial Japan, Singapore, South Korea...etc.
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Ovisterra
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Postby Ovisterra » Thu May 24, 2012 10:17 am

Alaje wrote:
Divair wrote:Morals =/= laws.

Laws = based on rights and occasionally efficiency/survival.


Wrong, all laws are based on morality, otherwise we wouldn't be arguing about "rights". "Rights" are irrelevant to a functioning and efficient state.......i.e Nazi Germany, Pre-Civil RIghts USA, Imperial Japan, Singapore, South Korea...etc.


Laws are based on morality, but they are not morals themselves. They are rules.

Historical fiction is based on history but that doesn't make it history.
Removing the text from people's sigs doesn't make it any less true. I stand with Yalta.
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Patrynsland
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Postby Patrynsland » Thu May 24, 2012 10:17 am

I am pro life and so is my girlfriends mom who was rapped and still had her child who is now my girlfriend. Her mom views her daughter as the only bright spot from all of it and that without her daughter she would not be nearly as happy. Also there is the case of adoption.
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Alaje
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Postby Alaje » Thu May 24, 2012 10:24 am

Ovisterra wrote:
Alaje wrote:
Wrong, all laws are based on morality, otherwise we wouldn't be arguing about "rights". "Rights" are irrelevant to a functioning and efficient state.......i.e Nazi Germany, Pre-Civil RIghts USA, Imperial Japan, Singapore, South Korea...etc.


Laws are based on morality, but they are not morals themselves. They are rules.

Historical fiction is based on history but that doesn't make it history.


Laws are morals, the two are inseparable. Let's see it is morally right for a person to be able to breathe air, SUPRISE no laws saying otherwise. It is morally wrong to kill your fellow countrymen, SUPRISE a law against it!!!

Historical fiction? What are you going on about?
Last edited by Alaje on Thu May 24, 2012 10:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Furious Grandmothers
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Postby Furious Grandmothers » Thu May 24, 2012 10:31 am

Alaje wrote:
Ovisterra wrote:
Laws are based on morality, but they are not morals themselves. They are rules.

Historical fiction is based on history but that doesn't make it history.


Laws are morals, the two are inseparable. Let's see it is morally right for a person to be able to breathe air, SUPRISE no laws saying otherwise. It is morally wrong to kill your fellow countrymen, SUPRISE a law against it!!!

And what are you going on about this? Let's see it is morally right for a person to be able to sell chewing gum, SUPRISE[sic] in my country there are laws saying otherwise.

Bad debate tactic, bro.
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Thu May 24, 2012 10:31 am

Tyler Schrakamp wrote:The higher fertility rate among religious conservatives than among the general population. Also, because Americans are beginning to realize that life is sacred.


As we are showing that in Iraq and Afghanistan.....
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Alaje
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Postby Alaje » Thu May 24, 2012 10:34 am

Furious Grandmothers wrote:
Alaje wrote:
Laws are morals, the two are inseparable. Let's see it is morally right for a person to be able to breathe air, SUPRISE no laws saying otherwise. It is morally wrong to kill your fellow countrymen, SUPRISE a law against it!!!

And what are you going on about this? Let's see it is morally right for a person to be able to sell chewing gum, SUPRISE[sic] in my country there are laws saying otherwise.

Bad debate tactic, bro.


Bubble gum selling is a privilege at best, hardly important not on the same level as "breathing air" or " the right to live".
I'm a Flamingo
Likes: Corporatism, Market Socialism, Progressivism, Atheism, Centrism, Kemalism, Dirigisme

Dislikes: Capitalism, Liberalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, Abortion, Feminism, LGBT

I've been: Communist , Fascist

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
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Excess of liberty, whether it lies in the state or individuals, seems only to pass into excess of slavery. - Plato
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Furious Grandmothers
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Postby Furious Grandmothers » Thu May 24, 2012 10:34 am

Patrynsland wrote:I am pro life and so is my girlfriends mom who was rapped and still had her child who is now my girlfriend. Her mom views her daughter as the only bright spot from all of it and that without her daughter she would not be nearly as happy. Also there is the case of adoption.

As has been mentioned many, many times in this thread, adoption cannot replace abortion because it still requires the woman to carry the baby to term, against her will. If my mum while pregnant with me was faced with circumstances in which she could not want me, I would rather that she abort me.

Nevertheless, I am glad for your girlfriend's mum.
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Furious Grandmothers
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Postby Furious Grandmothers » Thu May 24, 2012 10:37 am

Alaje wrote:
Furious Grandmothers wrote:And what are you going on about this? Let's see it is morally right for a person to be able to sell chewing gum, SUPRISE[sic] in my country there are laws saying otherwise.

Bad debate tactic, bro.


Bubble gum selling is a privilege at best, hardly important not on the same level as "breathing air" or " the right to live".

So says you. About your claim that laws are morals, how do laws like congregations of five people and more require a police license have anything to do with morals?
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Laerod
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Posts: 26183
Founded: Jul 17, 2004
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Laerod » Thu May 24, 2012 10:38 am

Alaje wrote:Laws are morals, the two are inseparable.

Why would you even suggest that this is true?
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Neo Art
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Founded: Jan 09, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Neo Art » Thu May 24, 2012 10:38 am

From the article, and conveniently left out by the OP:

Gallup's longest-running measure of abortion views, established in 1975, asks Americans if abortion should be legal in all circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances. Since 2001, at least half of Americans have consistently chosen the middle position, saying abortion should be legal under certain circumstances, and the 52% saying this today is similar to the 50% in May 2011. The 25% currently wanting abortion to be legal in all cases and the 20% in favor of making it illegal in all cases are also similar to last year's findings.



It appears that this poll is indicative of nothing more than a change in the usage of the terms. The reality is, despite more people considering themselves "pro life", 77% of americans want abortion legalized at least in certain circumstances, and only 20% want to outlaw the practice all together.

Funny how the OP left this little factoid out.
Last edited by Neo Art on Thu May 24, 2012 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alaje
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Posts: 2542
Founded: Oct 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Alaje » Thu May 24, 2012 10:38 am

Safhaven wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:NSG, why do you think support for the American right-to-life movement is growing?

Counties on the verge of collapse tend to fold back into conservatism to hold on to whatever way of life they consider "traditional". It's what destroyed the catholic church in europe, it's what destroyed the sultanate and it's what destroyed many other ideologies. Furthermore extreme rightwing ideologies tend to invade other countries, which is exactly what america tends to do under republican presidents. If americans are becoming more conservative, it means americans have a gut feeling that american hegemony is about over, americans know that their economy is going to collapse and they try to hold on to straws.

Progressive ideas are how nations survive. I sure hope america proves to be smart enough to keep democrats in power for at least 12 years to give the USA a chance to recover it's declining influence.


Progressive =/= Liberal
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Divair
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Founded: May 06, 2009
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Postby Divair » Thu May 24, 2012 10:41 am

Alaje wrote:
Divair wrote:Morals =/= laws.

Laws = based on rights and occasionally efficiency/survival.


Wrong, all laws are based on morality, otherwise we wouldn't be arguing about "rights". "Rights" are irrelevant to a functioning and efficient state.......i.e Nazi Germany, Pre-Civil RIghts USA, Imperial Japan, Singapore, South Korea...etc.

Rights > "efficient" state.
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The Jahistic Unified Republic
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Posts: 14096
Founded: Feb 28, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Jahistic Unified Republic » Thu May 24, 2012 10:45 am

Ailiailia wrote:
The Jahistic Unified Republic wrote:Funyn of how pro life people thinks life begins at conception... conception means sperm touches egg... your point is moot.


"Next thing you know" is a huge tell, that what follows isn't the sincere opinion of the writer.

Congrats on saying "moot" instead of "mute" though.


First off, thank you.

Second, as a pro-lifer myself, and knowing many pro lifers, all of us (around 12 of us) wouldn't go that far. We have come to the conclusion that as soon as sperm touched egg, that is when it becomes an egg. Now unless the complete idiot pro lifers, who want to adopt anti-masturbation ideals... I mean, they can have their opinion, but if your pro life, you usually believe that life begins when sperm joins with egg.

MY POINT IS:
Unless the far far far far far right holds a majority in a government organ, I think that fear is not rational.

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Terruana
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Posts: 1959
Founded: Nov 18, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Terruana » Thu May 24, 2012 10:49 am

Luckily, having a majority of people supporting something doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean it's going to happen.
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Yomali
Secretary
 
Posts: 31
Founded: Nov 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Yomali » Thu May 24, 2012 10:50 am

Jeez, Conservatives in this country just continiue to amaze me.
"We're gonna drive the country into the ground with our more and more recessive and backwards policies and generally not give a crap about you, but so help me, you're going to be born and live in it!"
Is basically what I hear on the news. An oversimplification, maybe, but there you go.

Also, Pro-Choice
Last edited by Yomali on Thu May 24, 2012 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Founded: May 05, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Thu May 24, 2012 11:03 am

Patrynsland wrote:I am pro life and so is my girlfriends mom who was rapped and still had her child who is now my girlfriend. Her mom views her daughter as the only bright spot from all of it and that without her daughter she would not be nearly as happy. Also there is the case of adoption.

She made that choice. When I was raped I had an abortion because it would ruin my life. Anecdotes about the happiness of one person choosing to give birth does not mean it's right to tell everyone that way is right for them.
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Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Founded: May 05, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Thu May 24, 2012 11:06 am

Divair wrote:
Alaje wrote:
Wrong, all laws are based on morality, otherwise we wouldn't be arguing about "rights". "Rights" are irrelevant to a functioning and efficient state.......i.e Nazi Germany, Pre-Civil RIghts USA, Imperial Japan, Singapore, South Korea...etc.

Rights > "efficient" state.

Also, cool that he apparently supports Nazi Germany...
The Andromeda Islands wrote:This! Is! A! Bad! Idea!
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



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Divair
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63434
Founded: May 06, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Divair » Thu May 24, 2012 11:09 am

Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:
Divair wrote:Rights > "efficient" state.

Also, cool that he apparently supports Nazi Germany...

He believes in ultimate efficiency of the species. Lack of emotion, I'm thinking.
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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Posts: 9398
Founded: May 05, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Thu May 24, 2012 11:11 am

Divair wrote:
Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:Also, cool that he apparently supports Nazi Germany...

He believes in ultimate efficiency of the species. Lack of emotion, I'm thinking.

Actually, I think he believes that not having any rights or individualism makes people work more.
Doesn't make sense.
The Andromeda Islands wrote:This! Is! A! Bad! Idea!
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



20 year old female. Camgirl/student. Call me Torc/TS/Alix
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