Gillibrand - women in combat

by **Poorisolation** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:00 am

SaintB wrote:Letting women fight in combat is special treatment! Equal treatment is special treatment when you talk about women and gays!

Oh from what I recall and have heard since women in the Military already get "Special Treatment" extra hazing, less support from commanding officers and male colleagues, people desperately trying to prove they cannot do their jobs by asking them to perform well beyond the requirements and then turning around and arguing "oh they have it easy".

Funny thing is they know all that, they take all that and despite the enhanced career attrition you will see more female General/Flag Grade Officers in the years to come and that will be its own answer.

by **Dyakovo** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:16 am

Northern Dominus wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:He said military... Coast Guard doesn't count...
You can throw a vast majority of the US Air Forces' enlisted ranks with that attitude as well. Thanks for denigrating my service to my country by the way, really.

A bit touchy are we? I'd have thought that the ":p" would have made it clear that I was joking...

by **Ethel mermania** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:16 am

Souseiseki wrote:
The Taryegeans wrote:There's also this thing woman do once a month that men don't. A thing that causes emotional swings that in an already stressful combat situation could prove fatal to the soldier and/or her comrades.

More likely to be fatal to the enemies.

by **Dyakovo** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:21 am

Northern Dominus wrote:
The Corparation wrote:He's joking.
Except I get this shit all the time from armchair generals who think they know more than anybody who's actually enlisted or been commissioned, even in a non-combat role. It gets old very quickly.

Yeah... I'm not an "armchair general"... I served in the USMC as a heavy machinegunner and in the National Guard as a tanker.

by **Dyakovo** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:21 am

Double post

by **Dyakovo** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:22 am

Triple post

by **Dyakovo** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:26 am

Northern Dominus wrote:
Tekania wrote:
He's joking.... and he's a former marine btw.

Though it completely wrong of him to denigrate the coast-guard in such a manner.... that's the Navy's job.
Yeah yeah, have fun in those big steel cans while hot bunking. I'll just stay here with my nice soft bed, good food, AND all the women that the Navy leaves alone for months at a time...not the married ones of course. Oh and I STILL get to collect hazard pay while on rotation to the cutter!
Besides what does MARINE stand for again? I think the acronym is My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment...

You nailed it...

by **Vyvansia** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:38 am

No, no, no! You're all focusing on the wrong thing. The real reason women shouldn't be allowed in combat is because their enormous tits will get caught on tripwires, triggering explosions that could compromise the whole unit.

by **Ifreann** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:40 am

Imsogone wrote:
Tekania wrote:
He's joking.... and he's a former marine btw.

Though it completely wrong of him to denigrate the coast-guard in such a manner.... that's the Navy's job.

If he's a Marine, he gets to denigrate the Navy and the Coast Guard. But the Navy gets to make jokes about him.

I was under the impression that when not doing war stuff the primary occupation of any given military man or woman is denigrating first the other branches of the military, and second the other parts of their own branch.

So after your Navy daughter(right?) gets done mocking the Army and Marines for* being man-children playing in the dirt, the Air Force for* being spelled with a silent 'ch' at the start and the Coast Guard for* being My Little Navy: Sailing is Magic, I would presume she'd start taking the piss out of sailors on other types of boats or submariners or whoever it is in the Navy who does something different than her.

*Or whatever the stereotypes are.

Vyvansia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Why would men and women need different training to drive a tank or fire a rifle or march in a straight line or anything else soldiers do?

I don't know about the other two things, but as far as marching is concerned, because men's and women's hips are different. The US Army discovered years ago that when women were made to march the way men march it caused them orthopedic problems. Then when the marching technique was adjusted to make it safer and easier for women, it started injuring men.

I really did not expect there to be any differences. Huh.

by **Dyakovo** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:47 am

Ifreann wrote:
Vyvansia wrote:
I don't know about the other two things, but as far as marching is concerned, because men's and women's hips are different. The US Army discovered years ago that when women were made to march the way men march it caused them orthopedic problems. Then when the marching technique was adjusted to make it safer and easier for women, it started injuring men.

I really did not expect there to be any differences. Huh.

I'm not sure there is any... I don't recall marching being a problem for anyone...

by **Northern Dominus** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:54 am

Ifreann wrote:
Imsogone wrote:
If he's a Marine, he gets to denigrate the Navy and the Coast Guard. But the Navy gets to make jokes about him.

I was under the impression that when not doing war stuff the primary occupation of any given military man or woman is denigrating first the other branches of the military, and second the other parts of their own branch.

So after your Navy daughter(right?) gets done mocking the Army and Marines for* being man-children playing in the dirt, the Air Force for* being spelled with a silent 'ch' at the start and the Coast Guard for* being My Little Navy: Sailing is Magic, I would presume she'd start taking the piss out of sailors on other types of boats or submariners or whoever it is in the Navy who does something different than her.

My little Navy...Heeeeyyyy, that's not true! The Coast Guard also has fixed-wing aircraft, so it's sorta like the Marines!....sort of...

dammit.

by **Ifreann** » Thu May 17, 2012 3:59 am

Northern Dominus wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I was under the impression that when not doing war stuff the primary occupation of any given military man or woman is denigrating first the other branches of the military, and second the other parts of their own branch.

So after your Navy daughter(right?) gets done mocking the Army and Marines for* being man-children playing in the dirt, the Air Force for* being spelled with a silent 'ch' at the start and the Coast Guard for* being My Little Navy: Sailing is Magic, I would presume she'd start taking the piss out of sailors on other types of boats or submariners or whoever it is in the Navy who does something different than her.
My little Navy...Heeeeyyyy, that's not true! The Coast Guard also has fixed-wing aircraft, so it's sorta like the Marines!....sort of...

dammit.

If it's any consolation, while the Irish Navy may have bigger boats than the US Coast Guard, you get to do more with yours than scare off Spanish fishermen.

by **Northern Dominus** » Thu May 17, 2012 4:01 am

Ifreann wrote:
Northern Dominus wrote: My little Navy...Heeeeyyyy, that's not true! The Coast Guard also has fixed-wing aircraft, so it's sorta like the Marines!....sort of...

dammit.

If it's any consolation, while the Irish Navy may have bigger boats than the US Coast Guard, you get to do more with yours than scare off Spanish fishermen.

As I understand it the spanish fishermen not only don't scare easily but they have pretty big guns once in awhile as well :lol2:

by **Ifreann** » Thu May 17, 2012 4:05 am

Northern Dominus wrote:
Ifreann wrote:If it's any consolation, while the Irish Navy may have bigger boats than the US Coast Guard, you get to do more with yours than scare off Spanish fishermen.
As I understand it the spanish fishermen not only don't scare easily but they have pretty big guns once in awhile as well

Seafood is serious business round here.

by **Northern Dominus** » Thu May 17, 2012 4:08 am

Ifreann wrote:
Northern Dominus wrote: As I understand it the spanish fishermen not only don't scare easily but they have pretty big guns once in awhile as well

Seafood is serious business round here.

Haven't the Irish Defence Forces fully integrated women into all roles by this point?

by **Ifreann** » Thu May 17, 2012 4:17 am

Northern Dominus wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Seafood is serious business round here.
Haven't the Irish Defence Forces fully integrated women into all roles by this point?

I don't know for certain off hand, but I suspect so.

by **Northern Dominus** » Thu May 17, 2012 4:21 am

Ifreann wrote:
Northern Dominus wrote: Haven't the Irish Defence Forces fully integrated women into all roles by this point?

I don't know for certain off hand, but I suspect so.

Well there ya go, if the half drunken and highly catholic nation of Ireland can integrate, then the US should have no problems doing the same (I keed of course Ifreann, I keed).

by **Tekania** » Thu May 17, 2012 4:41 am

Northern Dominus wrote:
Tekania wrote:
He's joking.... and he's a former marine btw.

Though it completely wrong of him to denigrate the coast-guard in such a manner.... that's the Navy's job.
Yeah yeah, have fun in those big steel cans while hot bunking. I'll just stay here with my nice soft bed, good food, AND all the women that the Navy leaves alone for months at a time...not the married ones of course. Oh and I STILL get to collect hazard pay while on rotation to the cutter!
Besides what does MARINE stand for again? I think the acronym is My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment...

Actually hotbunking has been rare on LA class subs and later (usually only when carrying significant number of extra people aboard). It was much more common through the 80's and earlier before the LA class became the backbone of the submarine fleet. I've shard berthing with a torpedo, harpoon or tomahawk before, however.

I know a lot of anacronyms.... you got the marine one... there is another Muscles Are Required Intelligence Not Essential
then there is NAVY (Never Again Volunteer Yourself).
ARMY: Ain't Ready to be Marines Yet
USAF: U Suckers are Fairies

No real good ones for coast guards other than referring to them as puddle-pirates.

I do remember a good CG joke though....

Q: Why is the coast guard thinking of setting a 6 foot hight requirement on joining?

by **Northern Dominus** » Thu May 17, 2012 4:54 am

Tekania wrote:
Northern Dominus wrote: Yeah yeah, have fun in those big steel cans while hot bunking. I'll just stay here with my nice soft bed, good food, AND all the women that the Navy leaves alone for months at a time...not the married ones of course. Oh and I STILL get to collect hazard pay while on rotation to the cutter!
Besides what does MARINE stand for again? I think the acronym is My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment...

Actually hotbunking has been rare on LA class subs and later (usually only when carrying significant number of extra people aboard). It was much more common through the 80's and earlier before the LA class became the backbone of the submarine fleet. I've shard berthing with a torpedo, harpoon or tomahawk before, however.

I know a lot of anacronyms.... you got the marine one... there is another Muscles Are Required Intelligence Not Essential
then there is NAVY (Never Again Volunteer Yourself).
ARMY: Ain't Ready to be Marines Yet
USAF: U Suckers are Fairies

No real good ones for coast guards other than referring to them as puddle-pirates.

I do remember a good CG joke though....

Q: Why is the coast guard thinking of setting a 6 foot hight requirement on joining?
A: In case the boat sinks, they can stand up and walk to shore.

Har har.
Just because the USCG has gone through a few cost-cutting measures especially in Maritime Security...

by **Risottia** » Thu May 17, 2012 4:58 am

Imsogone wrote:Hooorah. Someone gets it. For those of you who think this is only about putting women in danger, think again. Women, as has been pointed out, are already in danger and getting injured and killed on duty. This is about seeing to it that they get the benefits coming to them because of the job they're doing.
Yes, I have a daughter in the military. No, I don't particularly want to see her in combat, but if that's where she goes, then I want her to have the same rights and benefits as her male counterparts.

I also don't see why the armed forces should assign people to different duties based on sex, and not based on "who's able to do that job". Of course, there will be less women in those specialties that require more muscular strength (as the average woman is less strong than the average man), but, really, if she fulfills the physical and psychical requirements... where's the problem?

Let's evaluate individuals. Not groups.

by **Tekania** » Thu May 17, 2012 5:16 am

Imsogone wrote:
Northern Dominus wrote: Yeah yeah, have fun in those big steel cans while hot bunking. I'll just stay here with my nice soft bed, good food, AND all the women that the Navy leaves alone for months at a time...not the married ones of course. Oh and I STILL get to collect hazard pay while on rotation to the cutter!
Besides what does MARINE stand for again? I think the acronym is My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment...

You know why there are 16 buttons on a sailor's pants?

to give the marines 16 chances to say yes.

Actually there are 14 buttons (13 holding the front flap and an additional one above the flap holding the waist).... it also does double duty to really making things annoying when you REALLY have to pee.

by **The Germania Alliance** » Thu May 17, 2012 5:21 am

It's about fucking time.

by **Northern Dominus** » Thu May 17, 2012 5:25 am

Tekania wrote:
Imsogone wrote:
You know why there are 16 buttons on a sailor's pants?

to give the marines 16 chances to say yes.

Actually there are 14 buttons (13 holding the front flap and an additional one above the flap holding the waist).... it also does double duty to really making things annoying when you REALLY have to pee.

Leave it to the navy to over-complicate things such as dress blues...
Of course at least people knew what service you were in when you wore dress blues. I can't tell you how many people have seen the requisite photo of me in my dress blues and asked me how I liked the US Air Force >:(

by **Ifreann** » Thu May 17, 2012 5:35 am

Northern Dominus wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I don't know for certain off hand, but I suspect so.
Well there ya go, if the half drunken and highly catholic nation of Ireland can integrate, then the US should have no problems doing the same (I keed of course Ifreann, I keed).

While we are disadvantaged by our diluvial levels of alcohol consumption, we have the advantage of our soldiers not really going to war ever. It's hard for more traditionalist/conservative elements to get their knickers in a twist about the womenfolk going off to fight Johnny Foreigner when she more than likely won't be doing anything of the sort.

by **Tekania** » Thu May 17, 2012 5:49 am

Northern Dominus wrote:
Tekania wrote:
Actually there are 14 buttons (13 holding the front flap and an additional one above the flap holding the waist).... it also does double duty to really making things annoying when you REALLY have to pee.
Leave it to the navy to over-complicate things such as dress blues...
Of course at least people knew what service you were in when you wore dress blues. I can't tell you how many people have seen the requisite photo of me in my dress blues and asked me how I liked the US Air Force

Well, in the Navy we had a saying.... there were three ways of doing things... the right way, the wrong way, and the Navy way.

Gillibrand - women in combat

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