Question about Gay Hate

[Ifreann]

It's pretty simple reasoning. One hot chick is good, two is better, zero is worse.

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Damn it, but I wanted to vote!

And with lesbian porn, there's no uncomfortable comparisons to be made with the male actor.

There's also that. Incidentally, that's kinda how Ron Jeremy got into porn. Well endowed, but otherwise fat, ugly and generally unpleasant, so the viewer can always compare themselves favourably to him.

Do you think women came up with "Size doesn't count"?

Trufax right there.

[Furious Grandmothers]

Hey NSG, I'm not sure if this was posted before, so I wanna say this now.

If you've never met a gay person before...

If you've never seen a gay marriage / married couple before...

If you've never talked to a gay person before...

If they have 0 impact on your life...

Then why are people banning gay marriage?

Also, I'm not gay, I do believe that if they want to do something, let them. They aren't doing anything harmful to you.

Also, any argument like "because the bible said so" "because its unnatural" "because think of the children" "because they roonin da fewtur of amerikaaaa" will be ignored.

I am starkly against homosexuality as an immoral action. I suppose you might consider this homophobia. However, I do not qualify for any of your criterion. I have met many homosexual persons, have a homosexual couple in my extended family, know moderately well/am friends with several self proclaimed homsexual persons, and have seriously talked with them. And yes, they have had more than 0 impact on my life. I am against homosexual marriage because I believe marriage to be steped in religious background. Marriage ought to be religious in nature. The secularization of marriage sickens me. However, simply because I believe/know homosexuality to be immoral does not mean it is my right as a human to block it from society. Society is a corrupt place, and homosexuality will be a part of it, just like overt drinking, sexualization of women and men, lying, and many other immoral things which end up being legal. It is not the place of the government to block homosexuality from occuring, and this is why civil unions made to be legally equivalent in all ways to marriage should exist and be backed by the government.

After stating all of this, I must go on to inform you that I am a religious person, and that though I will not go after/attempt to seriously condemn a secular homosexual person, I will do so for a homosexual person who aspires to the same faith as I. Also, in your Opening Post, it is intriguing to note that you will not accept and will ignore any arguments based on anything but a completely scientific/secular position in this thread. This makes it virtually impossible for you to understand the position those who disagree with you will come from, and forces them away from joining a serious debate. Hence, you are losing your audience and the chance to argue your point to the ones who actually disagree with you.

What religion do you belong to? I'll state the case for Christians since it's quite likely, correct me if I am wrong. Pretty sure the bible never mentions homosexuality as immoral. Also, marriages were around long before Christianity, so due to this and other reasons, not much justification for marriage to be religious in nature. Moreover, civil unions are separate but equal. You have no reason, even religious reason, to oppose homosexuality.

[Revolutionary Councils]

Pretty sure the bible never mentions homosexuality as immoral

Homosexuals not being allowed to enter heaven, homosexual activities being condemned as an abomination.

Moreover, civil unions are separate but equal.

Entirely wrong. Civil unions are not equal in any way, especially in regards to the benefits marriages are legally entitled to.

[Furious Grandmothers]

Pretty sure the bible never mentions homosexuality as immoral

Homosexuals not being allowed to enter heaven, homosexual activities being condemned as an abomination.

Quote the verses that you claim to say so? Did you check out the link that was hyperlinked from these very words in my previous post?

Moreover, civil unions are separate but equal.

Entirely wrong. Civil unions are not equal in any way, especially in regards to the benefits marriages are legally entitled to.

Oh yeah, true. All 1,138 of them.

[Tmutarakhan]

The basic premise of the exclusion from eating also doesn't work. Gluten allergies and dairy allergies don't mean you cannot eat cheese or bread as lactose and gluten free options are available

You are totally missing the point of a hypothetical: objecting to it because it is different from what is actual is just silly. Yes, in reality gluten and lactose free options are available: the example is, WHAT IF gluten and lactose free options are legally forbidden, on grounds that they violate tradition, and besides, people with aversions to gluten and lactose are bad people anyway. Would that be "equal" treatment, since after all everyone has the same options?

[Tmutarakhan]

Marriage ought to be religious in nature.

Marriage is a LEGAL institution. What religious rituals you want to perform has no relevance whatsoever. Couples who have married with no involvement by their church do not deserve to have their legitimacy questioned. It is only in recent years that Christians have tried to hijack marriage in this way.

The secularization of marriage sickens me.

Not nearly as much as the arrogance of Christians in demeaning the marriages of non-members of their faith sickens me.

[Revolutionary Councils]

Quote the verses that you claim to say so? Did you check out the link that was hyperlinked from these very words in my previous post?

I did read it. It's quite clear it's calling it immoral, or at the very least a sinful abomination of which those doing the act cannot enter heaven. Do you need the exact word immoral used? I don't understand how you don't see how bigoted those verses linked are.

[Furious Grandmothers]

Quote the verses that you claim to say so? Did you check out the link that was hyperlinked from these very words in my previous post?

I did read it. It's quite clear it's calling it immoral, or at the very least a sinful abomination of which those doing the act cannot enter heaven. Do you need the exact word immoral used? I don't understand how you don't see how bigoted those verses linked are.

Are mistranslated to be. Were not so in original bible.

[The ancient Kingdom of Putacaia]

[Grenartia]

Pretty sure the bible never mentions homosexuality as immoral

Homosexuals not being allowed to enter heaven, homosexual activities being condemned as an abomination.

Those passages are heavily misinterpreted.

Leviticus more or less says its an abomination for two guys to have sex in a woman's bed.

Sodom and Gomorrah's damning sins were inhospitality, and attempted rape of the angels.

All of the passages that Paul appears to condemn homosexuality actually refer to temple prostitution.

After stating all of this, I must go on to inform you that I am a religious person, and that though I will not go after/attempt to seriously condemn a secular homosexual person, 1. I will do so for a homosexual person who aspires to the same faith as I. Also, in your Opening Post, it is intriguing to note that you will not accept and will ignore any arguments based on anything but a completely scientific/secular position in this thread. 2. This makes it virtually impossible for you to understand the position those who disagree with you will come from, and forces them away from joining a serious debate. Hence, you are losing your audience and the chance to argue your point to the ones who actually disagree with you.

1. Why? Because you can't accept that your faith may not be as anti-LGBT as you think?

2. We've seen all of those arguments before. They are based in something which is non-disprovable, unlike our arguments. If their position is correct, then they should be able to back up their arguments in a scientific/secular manner.

Also, how is homosexuality immoral?

They think that looking at porn with men in it makes them gay.

That was actually me, when I was in denial about my sexuality.

Isn't it adorable when boys think that "lesbian porn" involves real lesbians? I bet they think the tits are real, too.

I find it more adorable when boys think lesbian porn is OMG HAWT but gays are icky.

^ZOMG this!

Isn't it adorable when boys think that "lesbian porn" involves real lesbians? I bet they think the tits are real, too.

In the grand scheme of things, I don't think that's what they care about.

Its not. As long as its two females having teh sexy tiem, most of us don't give a shit.

[Laerod]

Also, how is homosexuality immoral?

Because, since they aren't allowed to marry, any sex will be out of wedlo... Oh, dear, I think I just figured out why the ultraconservative are so rabidly against gay marriage.

[Deus Regis Tyrannorum (Ancient)]

I am against homosexual marriage because I believe marriage to be steped in religious background. Marriage ought to be religious in nature. The secularization of marriage sickens me.

Too bad, because marriage was created to be a legal contract between two people and has absolutely none religious bg. Ergo, marriage has been secular from when it was invented. Christians, jews, muslims or other religions have no monopoly on marriage, sorreh. Check the definition of marriage from a dictionary and PLEASE COME AGAIN.

Society is a corrupt place, and homosexuality will be a part of it, just like overt drinking, sexualization of women and men, lying, and many other immoral things which end up being legal.

Equating homosexuality, an attribute one can't choose, to corruption in our society is really great. Way to go, mister or mistress Bigot. Read my signature if you dare.

It is not the place of the government to block homosexuality from occuring, and this is why civil unions made to be legally equivalent in all ways to marriage should exist and be backed by the government.

Separate but equal = inequal. Civil unions create segregation. Gay marriage. Legalize it!

After stating all of this, I must go on to inform you that I am a religious person, and that though I will not go after/attempt to seriously condemn a secular homosexual person, I will do so for a homosexual person who aspires to the same faith as I.

Seriously, why is that? All sins were created equal, and no one can choose between being a sinful person or a righteous person, so why? You're sinful too.

Also, in your Opening Post, it is intriguing to note that you will not accept and will ignore any arguments based on anything but a completely scientific/secular position in this thread. This makes it virtually impossible for you to understand the position those who disagree with you will come from, and forces them away from joining a serious debate. Hence, you are losing your audience and the chance to argue your point to the ones who actually disagree with you.

*cough* Srsly? Have you seen the debates between seculars and religious people about same-sex marriage? All they have brought up was some verses from the bible, told us to read them and did not back up their claims otherwise. Well, one christian said homosexuality was unnatural and tried to use biology to back it up, but failed. The same guy said it was a choice too, so... I wouldn't take him too seriously.

[Forsher]

We return to the basic flaw. Getting married is a choice, one that you should be allowed to make, within reason. Therefore, the sandwich works in that instance as one doesn't have to buy it. However, you make it seem as though its the only food choice available so you do. It now works for one situation but not the other, same as before.

The basic premise of the exclusion from eating also doesn't work. Gluten allergies and dairy allergies don't mean you cannot eat cheese or bread as lactose and gluten free options are available. The worst is the case of the ham, as vegetarianism is a choice like marriage but unlike homosexuality (except in an incredible minority of cases, so small it can, for all intents and purposes be forgotten). Personally I don't want to be a matyr when I can just remove the ham and the cheese, not that I'd ever become a vegetarian.

Do you see?

Marriage is a choice, just like buying a sandwich is. And, as I've said before, the only food that the restaurant is permitted to serve is ham and cheese sandwiches. It is not allowed to serve vegetarian/lactose-free/gluten-free options, because the majority of the islanders won't allow legislation allowing otherwise, because they feel that such options devalue their sandwiches (just as many anti-same sex marriage people feel that same-sex marriage would somehow devalue heterosexual marriages). The point of including vegetarianism in the example is to show that discriminating against LGBTs is wrong, even IF it was a choice.

Look, gluten free and lactose free bread and cheese are both still bread and cheese. Which are allowed...

[Forsher]

The basic premise of the exclusion from eating also doesn't work. Gluten allergies and dairy allergies don't mean you cannot eat cheese or bread as lactose and gluten free options are available

You are totally missing the point of a hypothetical: objecting to it because it is different from what is actual is just silly. Yes, in reality gluten and lactose free options are available: the example is, WHAT IF gluten and lactose free options are legally forbidden, on grounds that they violate tradition, and besides, people with aversions to gluten and lactose are bad people anyway. Would that be "equal" treatment, since after all everyone has the same options?

You're much better at that than Grenartia is.

It's equal treatment, doesn't make it fair treatment.

[The Horror Channel]

And with lesbian porn, there's no uncomfortable comparisons to be made with the male actor.

There's also that. Incidentally, that's kinda how Ron Jeremy got into porn. Well endowed, but otherwise fat, ugly and generally unpleasant, so the viewer can always compare themselves favourably to him.

Do you think women came up with "Size doesn't count"?

Trufax right there.

Eh, he wasn't a bad looking guy back in the day.

[Unchecked Expansion]

Look, gluten free and lactose free bread and cheese are both still bread and cheese. Which are allowed...

You are entirely missing the point.

Say the island had a small Jewish community. They don't mind cheese sandwiches, but are told they cannot swap the ham for more cheese. It's ham and cheese, not ham and ham on this island.

[Ibinium]

I did read it. It's quite clear it's calling it immoral, or at the very least a sinful abomination of which those doing the act cannot enter heaven. Do you need the exact word immoral used? I don't understand how you don't see how bigoted those verses linked are.

Are mistranslated to be. Were not so in original bible.

YOU READ DA HEBREW!?

[The United Nations of the Earth]

Hating people that love each other? That sounds about right. This world is f'n twisted!

[Wikipedia and Universe]

On topic: Personally, I think because they find the thought of two dudes to be icky, and think that lesbians are hawt, but will eventually find the right man for themselves.

Not to mention that, of course, bisexuals must be either confused or lying, obviously.

[AETEN II]

I've got a gay cousin who has had a boyfriend for a couple years, and since they live in New York, they can get married if they ever wish. And contrary to zealot belief, I doubt that gay marrige will cause a tsunami. Just kinda seems unlikely.

[Hadda]

I completely support same-sex marriage, but it'll never be recognized here in Jordan.

[Grenartia]

I completely support same-sex marriage, but it'll never be recognized here in Jordan.

Hope is not all lost, my friend. Because you are there, there are most likely others who share your view as well. Granted, it will take a long time, but it can be done.

On topic: Personally, I think because they find the thought of two dudes to be icky, and think that lesbians are hawt, but will eventually find the right man for themselves.

Not to mention that, of course, bisexuals must be either confused or lying, obviously.

Obviously. And transgendered people are confused and even more perverted than teh gayz.

Marriage is a choice, just like buying a sandwich is. And, as I've said before, the only food that the restaurant is permitted to serve is ham and cheese sandwiches. It is not allowed to serve vegetarian/lactose-free/gluten-free options, because the majority of the islanders won't allow legislation allowing otherwise, because they feel that such options devalue their sandwiches (just as many anti-same sex marriage people feel that same-sex marriage would somehow devalue heterosexual marriages). The point of including vegetarianism in the example is to show that discriminating against LGBTs is wrong, even IF it was a choice.

Look, gluten free and lactose free bread and cheese are both still bread and cheese. Which are allowed...

Tell that to the people who are anti-gluten/lactose/ham free sandwiches.

[Forsher]

I completely support same-sex marriage, but it'll never be recognized here in Jordan.

Hope is not all lost, my friend. Because you are there, there are most likely others who share your view as well. Granted, it will take a long time, but it can be done.

Not to mention that, of course, bisexuals must be either confused or lying, obviously.

Obviously. And transgendered people are confused and even more perverted than teh gayz.

Look, gluten free and lactose free bread and cheese are both still bread and cheese. Which are allowed...

Tell that to the people who are anti-gluten/lactose/ham free sandwiches.

I've been trying. It hasn't been working.

To be clear, we've left the metaphorical.

[Hadda]

I completely support same-sex marriage, but it'll never be recognized here in Jordan.

Hope is not all lost, my friend. Because you are there, there are most likely others who share your view as well. Granted, it will take a long time, but it can be done.

Oh, I know there are. We Arab bisexuals are a rare, but not extinct breed.

[Grenartia]

Hope is not all lost, my friend. Because you are there, there are most likely others who share your view as well. Granted, it will take a long time, but it can be done.

Oh, I know there are. We Arab bisexuals are a rare, but not extinct breed.

*brofist*