General isn't for RPers

[Jaredcohenia]

In a previous topic, Khadgar stated that:

General isn't really for the II crowd. That said, GTFO.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=76&start=25#p1258

Now, this raises a question. Do you feel as though that the roleplayers of NationStates should "butt out" of the General board? Do you feel as though the General board is a waste of bandwidth? Do you feel as though the roleplaying boards are wastes of bandwidth?

[Yootopia]

Neither is a waste, but RP is full of dreadful hacks, whereas General is full of eh ridiculous discussions which are always interesting.

[Kryozerkia]

RPers are perfectly welcome, however, don't come in expecting to reform this place. This is not your RP forum, there is a whole different mood here. People come here to debate. Topics will get repeated, no matter how much you whine about it being repetitive. You may feel unwelcome when you come in and it's because one may try to change this place. Imagine a Generalite going to one of your RP forum and posting a topic there about how they believe it's a rampant cesspool of uncreative RPs and all the RPs are the same.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Look, its no secret I'm one of the RP crowd. And there have indeed been times I thought General was something we could do without - mainly when there were forum issues due to overload and the nearly rampant style of posting many members seemed to have, thus in some eyes, needlessly bogging down said server, or when there was just a lot of nastiness afoot.

There's still been interesting topics in General over the years. I've mellowed and hopefully matured a bit. I've also been able to post just fine which negates any previous arguments about who's using 'too much' bandwidth and for what. And well ... I don't see why there should be any one place any one of us is relegated to, save by our own personal choices of where we want to play, or bad behavior that tends to cut off avenues by way of pissing enough people off that its no fun to play there anymore anyway. Or results in bans. Always amusing, that. >_>

We've all got our prefs, we've all got our groups of friends, we've all got things we like to do here. I don't see why there shouldn't be room for everyone, opportunity for us all to mingle so long as we don't get needlessly snotty like that bit in the opening quote with one another, and don't actually push 'elitist' or 'separatist' attitudes save in jest, or to point out someone's own problems in that area. That's something I KNOW the regulars here are capable of doing - pointing out missteps in accepted behavior, and setting folks straight. Just like we all do with folks who play out of bounds in our regular forums. Which is to be expected - and respected.

Which isn't to say I expect everyone to agree or get along all the time - hell, that'd be ... well, just silly. And wrong. Seriously. What's the point of having a place to discuss/debate 'just about everything' if we can't hold opposing views - even vehemently, all rules-line-crossing excepted.

tl;dr - Yeah, we're from all over, and play in all sorts of forums here, so what - we're all NationStaters. General, as well as the other forums are just fine as they have been, and likely will continue to be - play where you like, respect other's 'home turf'.

[Fictions]

As a RPer I am against this, yes I RP but I don't feel that I should be prevented from posting in discussions if I feel like it. I never expected general to become RP because that is not what it is but to enforce separation is silly.

[Chumblywumbly]

Of course General is 'for' the RPers as much as staunch Generalites, but General isn't for RPing.

Hence the backlash over Jaredcohenia's bizarre 'no OOC posts in General'.

[Aelosia]

What happens when you are a RPer AND a generalite at the same time? What are you supposed to think?

[Brutland and Norden]

What happens when you are a RPer AND a generalite at the same time? What are you supposed to think?

That you have a split personality.

[Hryvatia]

Imagine a Generalite going to one of your RP forum and posting a topic there about how they believe it's a rampant cesspool of uncreative RPs and all the RPs are the same.

I'd high five them, probably, they've got a fair point. However it's far easer to do this in General because it's already an OOC discussion forum and in the RP forums such behaviour is apparently actionable (to a certain extent), regardless of intention.

I'd also like to say I'm pleased to be discussing an issue put forward by Jaredcohenia that I haven't seen posted before. In a way he has accomplished part of his original thread's goal.

Also in other boards I'm on OOC refers to "Out Of Context" discussion, i.e. threadjacking or w/e.

[Jaredcohenia]

Also in other boards I'm on OOC refers to "Out Of Context" discussion, i.e. threadjacking or w/e.

Which is exactly what I was referring to.

I posted my original topic as a way to prevent some of the failures of the old General board (repetitive topics, threadjacking, spam, and the like) on the new board in an effort to make it better. There's a difference between general and spam, and I believe that at least 95% of the old board was just spam.

In response to Kryozerkia's post, reform is needed. The mood that I have observed over my four+ years on NS and Jolt is that it is all repetitive banter; I've seen more intelligible posts on /b/ than I have on General. The original post by Khadgar wasn't needed, and that is one of the reasons I came on in the first place. General needs to be changed from spam to intelligible, non-NationStates related posts.

Perhaps unified topics on certain threads, perhaps enforced bans on spam, etc.

[Erastide]

I'd love to see some RPs in General, the kind that weren't NS based at all but instead were loosely held parties and such. Those were quite fun to watch early on. And not ones that degenerate into loose sex scenes either.

[Jordaxia]

Eh, I used to RP but general is my twue calling. I suck at the whole 'keep posting, don't wander off' thing too hard.

[Erastide]

I posted my original topic as a way to prevent some of the failures of the old General board (repetitive topics, threadjacking, spam, and the like) on the new board in an effort to make it better. There's a difference between general and spam, and I believe that at least 95% of the old board was just spam.

Your definition of spam and the definition on this board seem to be two different things. Things that may be trivial by your definition are not necessarily spam. Don't think it's worth your attention? Don't read it and post in it.

In response to Kryozerkia's post, reform is needed. The mood that I have observed over my four+ years on NS and Jolt is that it is all repetitive banter; I've seen more intelligible posts on /b/ than I have on General. The original post by Khadgar wasn't needed, and that is one of the reasons I came on in the first place. General needs to be changed from spam to intelligible, non-NationStates related posts.

Again, your opinion. Having never wanted to go to /b/, I cannot make such a comparison.

Perhaps unified topics on certain threads, perhaps enforced bans on spam, etc.

I would argue against huge unified topics. They're intimidating, unwieldy and generally have the *same* argument reposted again and again by people who can't be bothered to read the initial arguments before posting their own opinions. At least with reoccurring threads in General, people don't have to post their opinions again if they don't want to or they can latch onto new points as they arise.

[Jaredcohenia]

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=76&start=25#p1258

Just looking at "The Latest Threads" unearths this obvious bit of spam - I don't see why it is allowed to be on here. It's pointless. It should be deleted.

And if large, unified topics are "intimidating", what are forty thousand topics on gay rights or communism? They're the exact thing: unwieldy, and have the same arguments reposted again and again by people who can't be bothered to read the intiial arguments before posting their own opinions. The opinions are always restated.

[Hryvatia]

And if large, unified topics are "intimidating", what are forty thousand topics on gay rights or communism? They're the exact thing: unwieldy, and have the same arguments reposted again and again by people who can't be bothered to read the intiial arguments before posting their own opinions. The opinions are always restated.

Touché!

[Kryozerkia]

In response to Kryozerkia's post, reform is needed. The mood that I have observed over my four+ years on NS and Jolt is that it is all repetitive banter; I've seen more intelligible posts on /b/ than I have on General. The original post by Khadgar wasn't needed, and that is one of the reasons I came on in the first place. General needs to be changed from spam to intelligible, non-NationStates related posts.

Perhaps unified topics on certain threads, perhaps enforced bans on spam, etc.

We already have unified topics when there is a surplus of threads on a certain topic. For example, during the presidential election campaign, a lot of threads were consolidated into a single thread. Each topic is considered on a case by case basis. It doesn't always work. After a certain point, a thread just becomes bloated or falls off the radar. It's better to allow a thread on a general topic with a specific focus to be allowed to blossom.

It is my opinion that a lot of the RPs are quite similar. I mean, how many threads do we need on some random nation president/prime minister/leader getting assassinated? Or another civil war thread? Oh look, an embassy exchange thread... that's REAL original... Oh, and that factbook, like that hasn't been done a million times. I'm sure I could list more, but then I'd be here all day. You know, you can whine about how NSG needs to be "reformed" but what you see in NSG, I see in your RP forum. It's just as bad for lack of originality. The only difference here is we know our topics are repeated ad nauseum, and we're not afraid admit it.

[Hryvatia]

Imagine a Generalite going to one of your RP forum and posting a topic there about how they believe it's a rampant cesspool of uncreative RPs and all the RPs are the same.

I'd high five them, probably, they've got a fair point. However it's far easer to do this in General because it's already an OOC discussion forum and in the RP forums such behaviour is apparently actionable (to a certain extent), regardless of intention.

Right here Kryo, we've already tried this.

[Jaredcohenia]

In response to Kryozerkia's post, reform is needed. The mood that I have observed over my four+ years on NS and Jolt is that it is all repetitive banter; I've seen more intelligible posts on /b/ than I have on General. The original post by Khadgar wasn't needed, and that is one of the reasons I came on in the first place. General needs to be changed from spam to intelligible, non-NationStates related posts.

Perhaps unified topics on certain threads, perhaps enforced bans on spam, etc.

We already have unified topics when there is a surplus of threads on a certain topic. For example, during the presidential election campaign, a lot of threads were consolidated into a single thread. Each topic is considered on a case by case basis. It doesn't always work. After a certain point, a thread just becomes bloated or falls off the radar. It's better to allow a thread on a general topic with a specific focus to be allowed to blossom.

It is my opinion that a lot of the RPs are quite similar. I mean, how many threads do we need on some random nation president/prime minister/leader getting assassinated? Or another civil war thread? Oh look, an embassy exchange thread... that's REAL original... Oh, and that factbook, like that hasn't been done a million times. I'm sure I could list more, but then I'd be here all day. You know, you can whine about how NSG needs to be "reformed" but what you see in NSG, I see in your RP forum. It's just as bad for lack of originality. The only difference here is we know our topics are repeated ad nauseum, and we're not afraid admit it.

Then make unified topics on gay marriage, on gun rights, on libertarianism, on communism, on whatever. A lot of those threads can be consolidated into a single thread. They all wind up being the same, all with the same focus.

Sure, a lot of RPs are quite similar. There's no denying that. I can argue that the generic assassination thread can blossom into a war thread which can blossom into a peace thread and so forth, I'm quite against embassy exchange threads, and the factbooks can be unified into a single thread. Hell, that would be a brilliant idea - every single factbook for a nation compiled into one resource for all to look into. I couldn't really tell you the last time I RPed seriously on II because I can't stand how it has become - but I would no way consider II's lack of originality the same as General's. General threads all wind up being the same, look at a bunch on Jolt. They'll start off with a link from CNN or some other news source, some banter related, some banter semi-related, a new person from NS quoting the original post and trying to be serious about the thread but gets ignored, spam, more spam, flaming, then the thread is reported to Moderation.

[Kryozerkia]

Then make unified topics on gay marriage, on gun rights, on libertarianism, on communism, on whatever. A lot of those threads can be consolidated into a single thread. They all wind up being the same, all with the same focus.

Because not all topics start out the same. Or a topic by cross over two different issues. Or maybe it stays on a single topic.

A larger thread can be cumbersome to moderate if it hasn't been closely watched or previously moderated. Plus, there comes a time when a thread should just be locked, and a new may eventually take its place. The flower has wilted and you need to replant it...

Of course, that's not saying it can't evolve... much like an RP. An RP, as you say may start out with an ever handy assassination of the nation's frumpy yet beloved president. A face known in every house and beloved by all, a person who represents the patriotic values of that tiny backwater nation no one gives two hoots over. And in a single moment, the tranquillity has ended. Of course, that nation could instead be split between two factions; the leader is a ruthless individual who has the nation by the throat. The smaller of the two factions is sitting in ready and is viewed by the public as the ultimate enemy. And that leader is all that stands between peace and total chaos. The person's face is associated with fear and control...

[King Arthur the Great]

Eh, I'm a bastard hybrid son of a Generalite and an RP-er. Much like Obama, with my status as an ambassador to both realms, I try to recognize that General is General, and the RPs are RPs, but that doesn't mean we have to turn these into xenophobic boards where segregation is so mandatory that you can only choose one.

[Chumblywumbly]

Then make unified topics on gay marriage, on gun rights, on libertarianism, on communism, on whatever. A lot of those threads can be consolidated into a single thread. They all wind up being the same, all with the same focus.

No they don't.

Sure, the same issues are brought up in most threads on the same topic, but often different points, angles, considerations, etc., are discussed. To take gay marriage, for an example of a topic that is brought up constantly, you've got legalistic debate, which can include anything from discussion of specific laws to topics of jurisprudence, ethical debate with its many facets, discussion of individual cases, discussion of gay issues outside the Anglophone world, etc.

Moreover, consolidation of, say, all things to do with communism would lead to the most unwieldy thread ever. You'd have everything from idiotic discussion of the US administration being socialist, to theoretical debate of all the vast spectrum of communist thought, via general gripes about the USSR and discussion of modern communist parties.

You might as well ask for the entire of II to be consolidated into one thread.

General threads all wind up being the same, look at a bunch on Jolt

Pish and nonsense.

[Brutland and Norden]

Perhaps with the evolution of NS, there had been specialized niches that had been carved out in II and NSG. As a newbie a few years back, I know there is some sort of friction between the two communities. Let's face it, NSII and NSG are largely two different (sub-)communities, having a big difference between the customs and attitudes and players in each. I have been in both, and I could only a few who can be considered a part of both (I don't think that includes me ). (NSWA and NSNS are entirely different (sub-)communities too, it seems). Nevertheless, these subcommunities are part of the greater community of NS. Khadgar is as free to post in NSII as Jaredcohenia is as free to post in NSG.

Perhaps what may had elicited such a strong reaction was that Jaredcohenia's suggestion was was aimed directly at the heart of NSG, uttered within NSG, to boot. I can see why Jaredcohenia and others see NSG as a cesspool of unnecessary spam, and I know of a few who would not even dare touch NSG because of that. But then, for NSGers, Jaredcohenia's "spam" is itself the thing they hold dear the most - the endless repetitive debates in which they pwn n00bs, the unique socialization that bordered on craziness and silly spam, discussions about the wildest and most mundane things - that, seems to be the essence of NSG. Taking away that by labeling it as "spam" and throwing it into the trash bin is like tantamount to saying "let's get rid of the NSGers". That's getting rid of an entire subcommunity. For what? I have no idea.

For me, I find NSII and NSG as sort of complement. Back when I still have the time to post and follow up my threads in NSII, I used to wait for replies by posting on NSG. For me, NSG is the place to blow off any silly craziness I may have or have thought of that I can't post in NSII. NSII (and NSWA, and NSNS) is a place here I can play make-believe for my fictional nation. I vote for both to remain.

[Muffins in your ears]

I like the two boards being there.
I have a passing interest in RP, and, you know... I don't frequent too many forums, so being able to post on a general forum without leaving Nationstates is pretty nifty.
I don't think the general board is for posting IC, no. Otherwise, I would roleplay like I had a much longer opinion to type. >_>

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Here's the thing though - not all RP is in II. There are in character interactions all over the game, in a number of forums. General is a unique place where it simply isn't required AND you can talk about pretty much anything.

And yes, I do remember the RP threads mentioned further up in here - good and bad. Back on the old old ancient first forums, that's where I had some of my first interactions - yep, right here on General. Was a fantastic starting point, got to know a lot of people, had a lot of fun, and somewhere in the course of things eventually drifted more towards the NS forum because I enjoy writing fiction more than debating. Not a crime, not a condemnation of debate.

Technical, Moderation, and Issues - obviously not the forums for debate on the latest news topics or opinions, and very much specialized.

World Assembly - in character, but of limited scope. One isn't going to RP a war there, last I saw.

Gameplay - That's a whole other ball of yarn there, but again, not the place for debate and discussion that General is.

International Incidents and NationStates, in addition here to Global Economics and Trade, and NS Sports (additions I'm certain many players will appreciate for various reasons) - in character interactions, and if tradition follows, topical out of character discussion allowed and encouraged.

None of this has to be 'either/or', and there's plenty who see each forum as a proper extension of the game itself, each with its purpose. And there's plenty who use a number of the forums in endless combinations to get the experience out of the NationStates game that they want, regardless of where those preferences may lay.

General is what it is - General discussion and debate. You want repetitious bitsrig eliminated? Might as well can a good part of this thread as well, right here right now, because I've got news - its all been discussed, hashed, rehashed, and beat to death over the years by people trying to come in and 'fix' or 'change' or 'improve' General to their own ideals and tastes.

And you know what?

It just hasn't happened.

We've had players come and go, Generalite Royalty rise and fall, various factions and friendships and opinion blocs change, and still ... General remains General, with a good many players quite satisfied with how it is, where its going, and what freedoms they have to post as they like - both longstanding members, and new folks.

I guess I'm not seeing where the problem is here, but then what do I know - I'm just some RP'er who's never followed, or participated, or observed, or done anything whatsoever with this forum, right? In this or any other guise.

[Third Spanish States]

I prefer BYOB styled forums for posting random stuff.

And there is a certain difference between the interests of those who dwell in NSG, those who dwell in II and those who dwell in NS. Sometimes this difference means that they lack any interest for other subforums.