NATION

PASSWORD

The Left and The Right

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Prusland
Envoy
 
Posts: 223
Founded: Jun 26, 2009
Ex-Nation

The Left and The Right

Postby Prusland » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:55 pm

The Right-Wing has a very strong monopoly on Religion and uses it to get many People to vote for them, while not actually following any religious topics besides abortion. The secular left does not care for religion yet it seems to follow most of the teachings of Christ. Obviously somethings wrong here, and what i think is wrong is that many "christians" who are upper-middle class and above use abortion as an excuse to be greedy and get their way. And because of these people, the secular left sees very bad examples of true Christian. So the so called "religious" are really the most anti-Jesus, while the secular non-religious people follow his word.
Does anyone else think we need a new party that can balance these things? A party that both follows Christs teachings AND believes in them? A Party that understands that no-questions asked abortion is wrong but is sometimes nessecary? Pro-lifers like to talk a lot about how we shouldn't kill yet once the child is born they argue against giving any help or support at all. Yet the party should see that we must help the poor of society and shouldn't just create excuses why we need to be so greedy. These are just my opinions anyone else have an idea like this or similiar?
Last edited by Prusland on Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tubbsalot
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9196
Founded: Oct 17, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Tubbsalot » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:59 pm

I can honestly say my ethics have nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity, and everything to do with not being an asshole. The things you call "christlike" are really just more like being a decent person, which now that I think about it, boils down to compassion more than anything else.

I would never, ever vote for a Christian party, nor one that tried to legislate "Christs teachings". Part of not being an asshole is not forcing your religious view on others.
"Twats love flags." - Yootopia

User avatar
Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:59 pm

I find religion in politics to be more of a authoritarian vs non authoritarian dynamic then a economic left Vs right.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
Phenia
Senator
 
Posts: 3809
Founded: May 06, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Phenia » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:01 pm

greed and death wrote:I find religion in politics to be more of a authoritarian vs non authoritarian dynamic then a economic left Vs right.


Agreed.

User avatar
Daistallia 2104
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7848
Founded: Jan 14, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Daistallia 2104 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:06 pm

greed and death wrote:I find religion in politics to be more of a authoritarian vs non authoritarian dynamic then a economic left Vs right.


Indeed.
NSWiki|HP
Stupidity is like nuclear power; it can be used for good or evil, and you don't want to get any on you. - Scott Adams
Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness. - Terry Pratchett
Sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions
How our economy really works.
Obama is a conservative, not a liberal, and certainly not a socialist.

User avatar
Hayteria
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1709
Founded: Dec 18, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Hayteria » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:10 pm

I don't regard such labels as "Left" and "Right" as being very meaningful in the first place. Anyway...

Prusland wrote:The Right-Wing has a very strong monopoly on Religion and uses it to get many People to vote for them, while not actually following any religious topics besides abortion. The secular left does not care for religion yet it seems to follow most of the teachings of Christ. Obviously somethings wrong here, and what i think is wrong is that many "christians" who are upper-middle class and above use abortion as an excuse to be greedy and get their way. And because of these people, the secular left sees very bad examples of true Christian. So the so called "religious" are really the most anti-Jesus, while the secular non-religious people follow his word.
Does anyone else think we need a new party that can balance these things? A party that both follows Christs teachings AND believes in them? A Party that understands that no-questions asked abortion is wrong but is sometimes nessecary? Pro-lifers like to talk a lot about how we shouldn't kill yet once the child is born they argue against giving any help or support at all. Yet the party should see that we must help the poor of society and shouldn't just create excuses why we need to be so greedy. These are just my opinions anyone else have an idea like this or similiar?

Who gets to say what "most of the teachings of Christ" are when the bible has multiple translations and arguable contradictions within it?

As for the idea of using religion to push an agenda other than that religion is typically used to push, I still wouldn't support it. A secular society should not revolve around religious ideas, regardless of whose they are.

User avatar
Aglorea
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 459
Founded: Jun 26, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Aglorea » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:11 pm

I always found it strange the Bible practically calls for socialism, yet every the religious right is dead set against it. As for your point I don't think there is any reason not to have a religion-based party, but I sure as hell wouldn't vote for them.

User avatar
Varxist States
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Jun 10, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Varxist States » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:13 pm

Prusland wrote: Does anyone else think we need a new party that can balance these things? A party that both follows Christs teachings AND believes in them? A Party that understands that no-questions asked abortion is wrong but is sometimes nessecary? Pro-lifers like to talk a lot about how we shouldn't kill yet once the child is born they argue against giving any help or support at all. Yet the party should see that we must help the poor of society and shouldn't just create excuses why we need to be so greedy. These are just my opinions anyone else have an idea like this or similiar?


I agree.
I believe that the far right-wing Christians do a huge amount of damage to the message of Christianity by trying to convert people by passing no-abortion laws and the like. It is sad that many right-wingers forget the point of why they are pro-life (i.e. actually trying to save lives) and instead go on a moral crusade, opposing abortion even when it actually threatens lives.
I also don't see from where in the Bible you can take excuses to be greedy. I go to a private school which is a Christian school by name, yet charges huge amounts to go there and is run more like a business than a school. All in the name of providing the very best teaching when others in the world don't have any.

User avatar
Dyakovo
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Dyakovo » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:19 pm

Prusland wrote:Does anyone else think we need a new party that can balance these things? A party that both follows Christs teachings AND believes in them?

No.
Prusland wrote:A Party that understands that no-questions asked abortion is wrong but is sometimes nessecary?

No.

What is needed is less religious involvement in government, not more.
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

User avatar
Aperture Science
Attaché
 
Posts: 80
Founded: Oct 20, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Aperture Science » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:31 pm

Sudden revelation time!

Clearly the Republican party is adhering to the OLD testament, which would make them nothing but a bunch of dirty JEWS! THE ZIONIST CONSPIRACY IS REVEALED! HARK TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER!
White and moist
You are my one desire
The cake is truth

User avatar
Prusland
Envoy
 
Posts: 223
Founded: Jun 26, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Prusland » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:11 pm

Im sorry i spoke wrongly, and i have accidently said something i didnt mean too. I do not in any way think we need a religious run party, what i mean is I think we need a middle of the line party that supports the best of both sides

User avatar
Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:13 pm

Prusland wrote:Im sorry i spoke wrongly, and i have accidently said something i didnt mean too. I do not in any way think we need a religious run party, what i mean is I think we need a middle of the line party that supports the best of both sides

If the libertarians ever moderated.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

User avatar
RightLeaningChristians
Diplomat
 
Posts: 837
Founded: Sep 20, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby RightLeaningChristians » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:28 pm

As interesting as a "Christian Party" would be, Christians in the US are very, very divided. So many sects.

Protestants vs. Protestants
Protestants vs. Catholics
Protestants vs. Orthodox
Catholics vs. Orthodox
Mormons vs. World
World vs. Christians
Emergency Alertness:
Jesus Christ!
God Damnit!
Fuck Me!

User avatar
Capitalistliberals
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1395
Founded: Apr 23, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Capitalistliberals » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:28 pm

Tubbsalot wrote:I can honestly say my ethics have nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity, and everything to do with not being an asshole. The things you call "christlike" are really just more like being a decent person, which now that I think about it, boils down to compassion more than anything else.

I would never, ever vote for a Christian party, nor one that tried to legislate "Christs teachings". Part of not being an asshole is not forcing your religious view on others.


this
God's a homophobe, or secretly in a space closet, why do u think he made Mary have a virgin birth? He didn't want to touch a girl...Also notice how all of god's main pals are men(arch angels) coincidence? I think not.

User avatar
Blouman Empire
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16184
Founded: Sep 05, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Blouman Empire » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:37 pm

Tubbsalot wrote:I can honestly say my ethics have nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity, and everything to do with not being an asshole. The things you call "christlike" are really just more like being a decent person, which now that I think about it, boils down to compassion more than anything else.

I would never, ever vote for a Christian party, nor one that tried to legislate "Christs teachings". Part of not being an asshole is not forcing your religious view on others.


But forcing your non-religious views is perfectly alright.
You know you've made it on NSG when you have a whole thread created around what you said.
On the American/United Statesian matter "I'd suggest Americans go to their nation settings and change their nation prefix to something cooler." - The Kangaroo Republic
http://nswiki.net/index.php?title=Blouman_Empire

DBC26-Winner

User avatar
South East Europe
Senator
 
Posts: 3993
Founded: Dec 17, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby South East Europe » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:39 pm

Varxist States wrote:
I agree.
I believe that the far right-wing Christians do a huge amount of damage to the message of Christianity by trying to convert people by passing no-abortion laws and the like. It is sad that many right-wingers forget the point of why they are pro-life (i.e. actually trying to save lives) and instead go on a moral crusade, opposing abortion even when it actually threatens lives.
I also don't see from where in the Bible you can take excuses to be greedy. I go to a private school which is a Christian school by name, yet charges huge amounts to go there and is run more like a business than a school. All in the name of providing the very best teaching when others in the world don't have any.


If other people cannot afford education, aren't you being greedy by taking the best?
I'm a transgirl in her mid-twenties with multiple disabilities, my name is Maria and my pronouns are female ones.

User avatar
Dyakovo
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 83162
Founded: Nov 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Dyakovo » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:39 pm

Blouman Empire wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:I can honestly say my ethics have nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity, and everything to do with not being an asshole. The things you call "christlike" are really just more like being a decent person, which now that I think about it, boils down to compassion more than anything else.

I would never, ever vote for a Christian party, nor one that tried to legislate "Christs teachings". Part of not being an asshole is not forcing your religious view on others.


But forcing your non-religious views is perfectly alright.

Who is forcing their non-religious views?
Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent...
Freedom from religion is an integral part of Freedom of religion
Married to Koshka
USMC veteran MOS 0331/8152
Grave_n_Idle: Maybe that's why the bible is so anti-other-gods, the other gods do exist, but they diss on Jehovah all the time for his shitty work.
Ifreann: Odds are you're secretly a zebra with a very special keyboard.
Ostro: I think women need to be trained
Margno, Llamalandia, Tarsonis Survivors, Bachmann's America, Internationalist Bastard B'awwwww! You're mean!

User avatar
South East Europe
Senator
 
Posts: 3993
Founded: Dec 17, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby South East Europe » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:41 pm

Blouman Empire wrote:
But forcing your non-religious views is perfectly alright.


We do not force our non-religious views on anyone. However, when I do not have basic human rights because of far too much religion in politics isn't that forcing your religious views on me?
I'm a transgirl in her mid-twenties with multiple disabilities, my name is Maria and my pronouns are female ones.

User avatar
Blouman Empire
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16184
Founded: Sep 05, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Blouman Empire » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:44 pm

South East Europe wrote:
Blouman Empire wrote:
But forcing your non-religious views is perfectly alright.


We do not force our non-religious views on anyone. However, when I do not have basic human rights because of far too much religion in politics isn't that forcing your religious views on me?


Basic human rights and lack of a non-religious views.
You know you've made it on NSG when you have a whole thread created around what you said.
On the American/United Statesian matter "I'd suggest Americans go to their nation settings and change their nation prefix to something cooler." - The Kangaroo Republic
http://nswiki.net/index.php?title=Blouman_Empire

DBC26-Winner

User avatar
Blouman Empire
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16184
Founded: Sep 05, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Blouman Empire » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:45 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Blouman Empire wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:I can honestly say my ethics have nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity, and everything to do with not being an asshole. The things you call "christlike" are really just more like being a decent person, which now that I think about it, boils down to compassion more than anything else.

I would never, ever vote for a Christian party, nor one that tried to legislate "Christs teachings". Part of not being an asshole is not forcing your religious view on others.


But forcing your non-religious views is perfectly alright.

Who is forcing their non-religious views?


My government isn trying to, it wants to pass some law whereby we can't entera bar after 2am, it also thinks that people cannot be apart of motorcycle groups and so seek to pass laws to ban this.

There are non-religious views where people think that speed limits should be lower and so they are already pushing this onto everyone and seek to push it further onto everyone.
You know you've made it on NSG when you have a whole thread created around what you said.
On the American/United Statesian matter "I'd suggest Americans go to their nation settings and change their nation prefix to something cooler." - The Kangaroo Republic
http://nswiki.net/index.php?title=Blouman_Empire

DBC26-Winner

User avatar
South East Europe
Senator
 
Posts: 3993
Founded: Dec 17, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby South East Europe » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:50 pm

Blouman Empire wrote:
Basic human rights and lack of a non-religious views.


I cannot legally marry males or females because religious fundamentalists make the marriage laws, I can legally be denied housing even if I can afford the rent and do not disturb anyone, employment even if I am the most qualified individual for the job, and usage of public facilities all because of who I am. No one else can legally be denied housing, employment, or usage of public facilities, only girls like me. If someone wants to proselytize and tell me that I am damned to hell, its perfectly legal. What about my freedom from being harassed?
I'm a transgirl in her mid-twenties with multiple disabilities, my name is Maria and my pronouns are female ones.

User avatar
The Norse Hordes
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1269
Founded: Sep 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Norse Hordes » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:55 pm

South East Europe wrote:
Blouman Empire wrote:
Basic human rights and lack of a non-religious views.


I cannot legally marry males or females because religious fundamentalists make the marriage laws, I can legally be denied housing even if I can afford the rent and do not disturb anyone, employment even if I am the most qualified individual for the job, and usage of public facilities all because of who I am. No one else can legally be denied housing, employment, or usage of public facilities, only girls like me. If someone wants to proselytize and tell me that I am damned to hell, its perfectly legal. What about my freedom from being harassed?



You dont get it cuz your icky.
Neesika wrote:Spongebob Squarepants turned my daughters into faggots.

Economic Left/Right: -9.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.23

User avatar
Desperate Measures
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10149
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Desperate Measures » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:59 pm

Blouman Empire wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:
Blouman Empire wrote:
Tubbsalot wrote:I can honestly say my ethics have nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity, and everything to do with not being an asshole. The things you call "christlike" are really just more like being a decent person, which now that I think about it, boils down to compassion more than anything else.

I would never, ever vote for a Christian party, nor one that tried to legislate "Christs teachings". Part of not being an asshole is not forcing your religious view on others.


But forcing your non-religious views is perfectly alright.

Who is forcing their non-religious views?


My government isn trying to, it wants to pass some law whereby we can't entera bar after 2am, it also thinks that people cannot be apart of motorcycle groups and so seek to pass laws to ban this.

There are non-religious views where people think that speed limits should be lower and so they are already pushing this onto everyone and seek to push it further onto everyone.

Why can't I get Liquor on a Sunday, I wonder?
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

User avatar
Blouman Empire
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16184
Founded: Sep 05, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Blouman Empire » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:00 pm

South East Europe wrote:
Blouman Empire wrote:
Basic human rights and lack of a non-religious views.


I cannot legally marry males or females because religious fundamentalists make the marriage laws, I can legally be denied housing even if I can afford the rent and do not disturb anyone, employment even if I am the most qualified individual for the job, and usage of public facilities all because of who I am. No one else can legally be denied housing, employment, or usage of public facilities, only girls like me. If someone wants to proselytize and tell me that I am damned to hell, its perfectly legal. What about my freedom from being harassed?


Gay rights (because that's what I am assuming you mean by girls like you) is not all basic human rights.
You know you've made it on NSG when you have a whole thread created around what you said.
On the American/United Statesian matter "I'd suggest Americans go to their nation settings and change their nation prefix to something cooler." - The Kangaroo Republic
http://nswiki.net/index.php?title=Blouman_Empire

DBC26-Winner

User avatar
The Norse Hordes
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1269
Founded: Sep 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Norse Hordes » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:01 pm

Blouman Empire wrote:
South East Europe wrote:
Blouman Empire wrote:
Basic human rights and lack of a non-religious views.


I cannot legally marry males or females because religious fundamentalists make the marriage laws, I can legally be denied housing even if I can afford the rent and do not disturb anyone, employment even if I am the most qualified individual for the job, and usage of public facilities all because of who I am. No one else can legally be denied housing, employment, or usage of public facilities, only girls like me. If someone wants to proselytize and tell me that I am damned to hell, its perfectly legal. What about my freedom from being harassed?


Gay rights (because that's what I am assuming you mean by girls like you) is not all basic human rights.



No, no it pretty much is, no matter how icky practitioners of Abrahamic religions find it.
Neesika wrote:Spongebob Squarepants turned my daughters into faggots.

Economic Left/Right: -9.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.23

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Mestovakia, Soviet Haaregrad

Advertisement

Remove ads