Do you consider Humans to be Animals?

[Sociobiology]

notice I struck that you can make a biological system that is just as good, if not better.

Except biology is inferior. Flesh is just junk.

muscle is the single best force creating mechanism in existence.
biology out preforms mechanical in most measures, and when all different ones are taken together is much better rounded, and better yet is self repairing.

[Hammurab]

Heh, right. The patch was designed to fix the inability to take the form of a chrome-covered female version of Abraham Lincoln, but once you install the patch you can only take the form of a chrome-covered female version of Abraham Lincoln.

Plus it also introduces a glitch when you transition zones where you might just turn into a giant penis.

Heheheh.

If a liquid-metal Terminator 2 version of Jimi Hendrix oozed its way out of a government lab, fought its way to the Fender guitar factory in Ensenada Mexico, and then proceeded to render rifts that ended all wars, cruelty, inhumanity, and child abuse, how would we classify it?

And who will play bass?

Humans...animals...

[Hammurab]

Except biology is inferior. Flesh is just junk.

muscle is the single best force creating mechanism in existence.
biology out preforms mechanical in most measures, and when all different ones are taken together is much better rounded, and better yet is self repairing.

Yeah but bio has had more time to mature and develop. Give equal time to Mech and they might do better.

Now, if you put Rick Hunter into the Veritech fighter, that's just plain optimal.

[The Emerald Legion]

Except biology is inferior. Flesh is just junk.

muscle is the single best force creating mechanism in existence.
biology out preforms mechanical in most measures, and when all different ones are taken together is much better rounded, and better yet is self repairing.

Err. No it isn't. I've had this argument before. Multiple times.

The only thing biology has on mechanical things is the capacity to litterally thrive on almost nothing.

[Sociobiology]

muscle is the single best force creating mechanism in existence.
biology out preforms mechanical in most measures, and when all different ones are taken together is much better rounded, and better yet is self repairing.

Yeah but bio has had more time to mature and develop. Give equal time to Mech and they might do better.

Now, if you put Rick Hunter into the Veritech fighter, that's just plain optimal.

but that's the idea variety of specialized mechanical with a generalist biological core. a muscle can operate with a wide range of forces with full feed back and repair while still in operation,all while being more energy efficent than any mechanical system. There is no real benefit to giving up the generalist core, we can make it better but you do that with bio-engineering, most of the flaws in the human body are just evolutionary hold overs not the failing of the material.

[Valdehmar]

muscle is the single best force creating mechanism in existence.
biology out preforms mechanical in most measures, and when all different ones are taken together is much better rounded, and better yet is self repairing.

Err. No it isn't. I've had this argument before. Multiple times.

The only thing biology has on mechanical things is the capacity to litterally thrive on almost nothing.

Alright. I fucking challenge you to find or build a lone mechanical limb with better tensile power than a male red kangaroo's hind legs.

[Hammurab]

Um, not to preclude the coming snarkfest, but does it kind of depend on the design parameters, constraints, goals, etc?


Like, the systemic efficiency of a particular biological process in terms of optimizing x per y might prefer a biological solution,

but by contrast,

if the goal is to achieve lunar orbit, mechanical may have some advantages.

[The Emerald Legion]

Err. No it isn't. I've had this argument before. Multiple times.

The only thing biology has on mechanical things is the capacity to litterally thrive on almost nothing.

Alright. I fucking challenge you to find or build a lone mechanical limb with better tensile power than a male red kangaroo's hind legs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Muskie

I'm pretty sure that one of the legs on that could more than do it.

[Sociobiology]

muscle is the single best force creating mechanism in existence.
biology out preforms mechanical in most measures, and when all different ones are taken together is much better rounded, and better yet is self repairing.

Err. No it isn't. I've had this argument before. Multiple times.

The only thing biology has on mechanical things is the capacity to litterally thrive on almost nothing.

and repair themselves, and replicate themselves, and optimize multiple factors at once, and produce sensory equipment, and joint efficiency, chemical manufacture,..

plus if you want to go into space, thriving on nothing is what you need.

[The Emerald Legion]

Err. No it isn't. I've had this argument before. Multiple times.

The only thing biology has on mechanical things is the capacity to litterally thrive on almost nothing.

and repair themselves, and replicate themselves, and optimize multiple factors at once, and produce sensory equipment, and joint efficiency, chemical manufacture,..

plus if you want to go into space, thriving on nothing is what you need.

Perhaps I should correct that statement. Thriving on nothing but a natural crutch/support system you've evolved to take advantage of.

[Hammurab]

Err. No it isn't. I've had this argument before. Multiple times.

The only thing biology has on mechanical things is the capacity to litterally thrive on almost nothing.

and repair themselves, and replicate themselves, and optimize multiple factors at once, and produce sensory equipment, and joint efficiency, chemical manufacture,..

plus if you want to go into space, thriving on nothing is what you need.

Well, when we say thrive on nothing, we're talking some kind autotrophic array, thylakoids or whatever, properly protected, could match or exceed performance of a high end solar panel? Maybe they could be housed in some kind of transparent enamel preserving pressure and protecting from small impacts.

[Sociobiology]

Alright. I fucking challenge you to find or build a lone mechanical limb with better tensile power than a male red kangaroo's hind legs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Muskie

I'm pretty sure that one of the legs on that could more than do it.

but in terms of strenght to weight the kangaroo wins hands down.
and that leg can move with enough precision to pickup a blade of grass ,or kick your kidney out your asshole.
machines are great if they only have to do one thing.

[Hammurab]

but in terms of strenght to weight the kangaroo wins hands down.
and that leg can move with enough precision to pickup a blade of grass ,or kick your kidney out your asshole.
machines are great if they only have to do one thing.

I only do one thing.


I'll admit I use a machine, but only sometimes.

[Sociobiology]

and repair themselves, and replicate themselves, and optimize multiple factors at once, and produce sensory equipment, and joint efficiency, chemical manufacture,..

plus if you want to go into space, thriving on nothing is what you need.

Well, when we say thrive on nothing, we're talking some kind autotrophic array, thylakoids or whatever, properly protected, could match or exceed performance of a high end solar panel? Maybe they could be housed in some kind of transparent enamel preserving pressure and protecting from small impacts.

properly protected nothing, properly engineered they would just repair if damaged, a micrometeor can't actually do much damage to an array of leaves, and leaves only need pressure because they evolved to breath external air, leaves will not fail under vaccum, nor will human skin for that matter.
a human brain operates on the same power usage as an Iphone. heck we can engineer biological systems that are powered by pure radioactive decay by capturing individual emitted neutrons and photons. all this in a system that could grow more panels form the inside as need.

Of course I am not suggesting we should use such a system, but it is food for thought.

[The Emerald Legion]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Muskie

I'm pretty sure that one of the legs on that could more than do it.

but in terms of strenght to weight the kangaroo wins hands down.
and that leg can move with enough precision to pickup a blade of grass ,or kick your kidney out your asshole.
machines are great if they only have to do one thing.

An electrical motor has a 99% percent potential energy input to output. We haven't reached that not even close, but that is the theoretical limit.

Muscle at best gets 15%. And isn't getting better.

It's merely a matter of engineering.

[Hammurab]

properly protected nothing, properly engineered they would just repair if damaged, a micrometeor can't actually do much damage to an array of leaves, and leaves only need pressure because they evolved to breath external air, leaves will not fail under vaccum, nor will human skin for that matter.
a human brain operates on the same power usage as an Iphone. heck we can engineer biological systems that are powered by pure radioactive decay by capturing individual emitted neutrons and photons. all this in a system that could grow more panels form the inside as need.

Of course I am not suggesting we should use such a system, but it is food for thought.

Well, you never know. I once met a Chemist named Dong who came up with an organic chemical with very high end photovoltaic properties. Got some kind of award for it.


Dong. Hehhehehe

[Sociobiology]

If you want something that can react to a variety of conditions with flexible physical abilities you want biologics. If you want something that can operate for a long time you want biologics, if you want to do one highly specialized thing extremely well you want machines. the best systems are a variety of mechanical specialty devices that fit on a general biologic core system. the biological core can react instantly to varying conditions and select a mechanical unit when it needs specialty equipment. it can repair itself and repair the specialty systems so it is self sustaining.

[Hammurab]

If you want something that can react to a variety of conditions with flexible physical abilities you want biologics. If you want something that can operate for a long time you want biologics, if you want to do one highly specialized thing extremely well you want machines. the best systems are a variety of mechanical specialty devices that fit on a general biologic core system. the biological core can react instantly to varying conditions and select a mechanical unit when it needs specialty equipment. it can repair itself and repair the specialty systems so it is self sustaining.

So like I said. Rick Hunter in a veritech fighter.

[Sociobiology]

but in terms of strenght to weight the kangaroo wins hands down.
and that leg can move with enough precision to pickup a blade of grass ,or kick your kidney out your asshole.
machines are great if they only have to do one thing.

An electrical motor has a 99% percent potential energy input to output. We haven't reached that not even close, but that is the theoretical limit.

Muscle at best gets 15%. And isn't getting better.

It's merely a matter of engineering.

an electric motor has a much narrower force range than a muscle, and has a much higher operating energy, and most importantly wears out. muscles have built in feed back systems, repair mechanisms.

you design for me a electric motor that can be repaired without dis-assembly and will never wear out I I'll listen. Electric motors are great if they are disposable.

[The Emerald Legion]

If you want something that can react to a variety of conditions with flexible physical abilities you want biologics. If you want something that can operate for a long time you want biologics, if you want to do one highly specialized thing extremely well you want machines. the best systems are a variety of mechanical specialty devices that fit on a general biologic core system. the biological core can react instantly to varying conditions and select a mechanical unit when it needs specialty equipment. it can repair itself and repair the specialty systems so it is self sustaining.

We are pretty dang close to machines that repair themselves as well as people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIn-sMq8-Ls

The only thing that biology currently has that we don't do ten times better is the human brain and we are getting pretty damn close.

[Sociobiology]

If you want something that can react to a variety of conditions with flexible physical abilities you want biologics. If you want something that can operate for a long time you want biologics, if you want to do one highly specialized thing extremely well you want machines. the best systems are a variety of mechanical specialty devices that fit on a general biologic core system. the biological core can react instantly to varying conditions and select a mechanical unit when it needs specialty equipment. it can repair itself and repair the specialty systems so it is self sustaining.

So like I said. Rick Hunter in a veritech fighter.

a better designed Rick Hunter, one that does not require air, can regrow limbs, and has eyes that can see in the infrared and ultraviolet. think of how much more you could get out of it.

[Hammurab]

a better designed Rick Hunter, one that does not require air, can regrow limbs, and has eyes that can see in the infrared and ultraviolet. think of how much more you could get out of it.

Lisa Hayes wouldn't have a voice that makes you want to shotgun a cereal bowl of vodka.

[Sociobiology]

If you want something that can react to a variety of conditions with flexible physical abilities you want biologics. If you want something that can operate for a long time you want biologics, if you want to do one highly specialized thing extremely well you want machines. the best systems are a variety of mechanical specialty devices that fit on a general biologic core system. the biological core can react instantly to varying conditions and select a mechanical unit when it needs specialty equipment. it can repair itself and repair the specialty systems so it is self sustaining.

We are pretty dang close to machines that repair themselves as well as people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIn-sMq8-Ls

The only thing that biology currently has that we don't do ten times better is the human brain and we are getting pretty damn close.

that is a totally diffrent thing than self repair, biological systems are built on the molecular level so they can always be repaired, the smallest units can build the other units from free atoms.
That is the biggest flaw of metals machines they don't work well at the nanoscale, biological systems always work at the nano scale but not as well at very large sizes (elephant sized), hence use them both, biologicals can repair mechanicals and biologicals can repair themselves, but the mechanicals work better at large scales.

[Costa Fiero]

Well we ain't plants.

How can you be so sure?
I certainly move as much as a plant.

Exactly. I attract a lot of inescts, turn red every spring and emit a lot of pollen.

However, they may or may not be due to wearing bright colours, lack of sunscreen and hayfever.

[Aluzky]

I have see in my life 9 people who denied that we are animals even after showing blatant evidence.

They where religious and not smart at all, I wonder of those two go hand by hand in people who believe that humans are not animals.