Some contradictions I would like to have explained.

[Czardas]

I can't really defend my position on abortion from a practical standpoint, but in the (secular, don't flip out) moral arena, I believe it to be wrong to deliberately end the life of another.

why's life so special?

[Rhodmhire]

Because these clumps of cells each have an immeasurable, indemonstrable, nebulous structure of unknown origin, function, and composition called a "soul."

As do those your people eagerly exinguish.

Cool, I'm not the only one who doesn't have a clue about Internet sarcasm.

[Kobrania]

I can't really defend my position on abortion from a practical standpoint, but in the (secular, don't flip out) moral arena, I believe it to be wrong to deliberately end the life of another.

why's life so special?

I don't find life special, funnily enough.

I find forced death by means of aggression or law uncivilised.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

why's life so special?

Certain arrangements of atoms cause Animons (or spirit quanta) to magically and spontaneously appear. These Animons have absolutely no effects, can't be measured, are not known to serve any purpose, can't be shown to exist, and don't have any known behavior, but dammit, they exist and they mark the difference between life and non-life.

[Samatolian City-States]

I can't really defend my position on abortion from a practical standpoint, but in the (secular, don't flip out) moral arena, I believe it to be wrong to deliberately end the life of another.

why's life so special?

Answer me this, and you'll have your answer. Would you mind if someone shot you in the face, right at this moment in time?

[Kobrania]

Because these clumps of cells each have an immeasurable, indemonstrable, nebulous structure of unknown origin, function, and composition called a "soul."

As do those your people eagerly exinguish.

Cool, I'm not the only one who doesn't have a clue about Internet sarcasm.

Ah, I missed the meaning of that sentence, bugger me, for I am a fool.


At least use the smiley damn it!

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Answer me this, and you'll have your answer. Would you mind if someone shot you in the face, right at this moment in time?

But he's not an impartial observer, so how is his opinion on the matter valid?

[Czardas]

I can't really defend my position on abortion from a practical standpoint, but in the (secular, don't flip out) moral arena, I believe it to be wrong to deliberately end the life of another.

why's life so special?

Answer me this, and you'll have your answer. Would you mind if someone shot you in the face, right at this moment in time?

Not really, since being shot in the face would kill me, and there would be no one left to "mind" anything at all.

Besides, "how would you like it if they killed YOU" is a specious argument with no basis in logic.

[Rhodmhire]

Because these clumps of cells each have an immeasurable, indemonstrable, nebulous structure of unknown origin, function, and composition called a "soul."

As do those your people eagerly exinguish.

Cool, I'm not the only one who doesn't have a clue about Internet sarcasm.

Ah, I missed the meaning of that sentence, bugger me, for I am a fool.


At least use the smiley damn it!

Don't be ashamed, if anything, I should be praising you for not understanding the great complexity of Internet sarcasm.

I'm amazed there are so few like you and myself.

[Czardas]

Answer me this, and you'll have your answer. Would you mind if someone shot you in the face, right at this moment in time?

But he's not an impartial observer, so how is his opinion on the matter valid?

My opinions are always valid, you know. Mostly because I'm so much smarter than you all, but also because I'm quantifiably a better person; my mind has a greater concentration of animons than any of yours. I am Czardas, the Ultimate Authority. :)

[PlatoByProxy]

Those who have committed a heinous crime worthy of the death penalty are a detriment to society. Given their barbarity, depraved nature, and a lack of anything to offer the community, their life has no value. Similarly, the enemy of a just society is inherently unjust, for only the unjust regard the just with enmity. To strike a blow against a just nation's enemies would advance the cause of justice, and the lives of the unjust should not be spared in that pursuit. On the other hand, a fetus which is the product of two parents of good genetic stock has the potential to harmoniously contribute to the community -- consequently, its life (whether present or future is merely a matter of semantics and irrelevant) has value and should be treasured.

[Hayteria]

Because these clumps of cells each have an immeasurable, indemonstrable, nebulous structure of unknown origin, function, and composition called a "soul."

Now you're just strawmanning. While I don't believe in the ideas of rights for embryos and fetuses (well, at least until the third trimester, which is a bit of a grey area) I don't think everyone who does believes in souls. Some people believe that embryos and fetuses deserve rights simply for being "human life." (Ie. having human DNA and being made from a human sperm cell and a human egg cell.)

[Rhodmhire]

I am Czardas, the Ultimate Authority.

Yeah, well I'm Rhodmhire, the weird-named one who posts all the nonsense.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Given their barbarity, depraved nature, and a lack of anything to offer the community, their life has no value.

Because the value of a life is an objective quantity that can be scientifically measured.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Now you're just strawmanning. While I don't believe in the ideas of rights for embryos and fetuses (well, at least until the third trimester, which is a bit of a grey area) I don't think everyone who does believes in souls. Some people believe that embryos and fetuses deserve rights simply for being "human life." (Ie. having human DNA and being made from a human sperm cell and a human egg cell.)

The argument that an embryo deserves rights because it has human DNA breaks down unless the same people mourn the thousands (or more) blood cells of theirs that die every day.

[Samatolian City-States]

I can't really defend my position on abortion from a practical standpoint, but in the (secular, don't flip out) moral arena, I believe it to be wrong to deliberately end the life of another.

why's life so special?

Answer me this, and you'll have your answer. Would you mind if someone shot you in the face, right at this moment in time?

Not really, since being shot in the face would kill me, and there would be no one left to "mind" anything at all.

Besides, "how would you like it if they killed YOU" is a specious argument with no basis in logic.

You place no value on your own life, then. Would you place value on the life of another?

[Kobrania]

Those who have committed a heinous crime worthy of the death penalty are a detriment to society. Given their barbarity, depraved nature, and a lack of anything to offer the community, their life has no value. Similarly, the enemy of a just society is inherently unjust, for only the unjust regard the just with enmity. To strike a blow against a just nation's enemies would advance the cause of justice, and the lives of the unjust should not be spared in that pursuit. On the other hand, a fetus which is the product of two parents of good genetic stock has the potential to harmoniously contribute to the community -- consequently, its life (whether present or future is merely a matter of semantics and irrelevant) has value and should be treasured.

Only those who cannot consciously make a choice not to kill are detrimental, the others can be discussed with.
Justice is subjective to the veiws of a people and should not be fought for because some nations may veiw differently, for good or evil.
Life is determind by the ability to think or have brain activity, an early fetus has neither.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

You place no value on your own life, then. Would you place value on the life of another?

Value is an artificial construct that is imposed by the mind. Things only have value because we say they do, hence the value of an object isn't a property of the object itself but a property of either society or the individual.

[Hayteria]

Given their barbarity, depraved nature

The same can be said about humanity in general.

and a lack of anything to offer the community

What about criminals who write books from their jail cells, like Stanley Tookie Williams?

their life has no value

Who are you to judge what value their life has?

Similarly, the enemy of a just society is inherently unjust

Such as countries that get falsely accused of ties to Al-Queda or posession of WMD?

On the other hand, a fetus which is the product of two parents of good genetic stock has the potential to harmoniously contribute to the community

The same can be said for people for whom having unwanted children stopped them from implementing their ideas.

[Czardas]

I can't really defend my position on abortion from a practical standpoint, but in the (secular, don't flip out) moral arena, I believe it to be wrong to deliberately end the life of another.

why's life so special?

Answer me this, and you'll have your answer. Would you mind if someone shot you in the face, right at this moment in time?

Not really, since being shot in the face would kill me, and there would be no one left to "mind" anything at all.

Besides, "how would you like it if they killed YOU" is a specious argument with no basis in logic.

You place no value on your own life, then. Would you place value on the life of another?

That depends. Life is worth as much as you are willing to pay to continue having it. In the healthcare and safety industries, I think the average value of a life is considered to be about $5 million.... it's just not cost-effective to spend any more trying to save someone's life. Nonetheless, since there is no fixed value for life, life is potentially infinitely valuable, since someone could just as easily pay $1 billion or $1 trillion or even larger quantities in order to stay alive, if they so chose.

I'm not sure how much value I'd place on the lives of others. Depending on how close the person was to me and how well I knew them, the value would change. Close friends and family members I'd pay more to save the lives of than complete strangers, that is.

[Rhodmhire]

Those who have committed a heinous crime worthy of the death penalty are a detriment to society. Given their barbarity, depraved nature, and a lack of anything to offer the community, their life has no value. Similarly, the enemy of a just society is inherently unjust, for only the unjust regard the just with enmity. To strike a blow against a just nation's enemies would advance the cause of justice, and the lives of the unjust should not be spared in that pursuit. On the other hand, a fetus which is the product of two parents of good genetic stock has the potential to harmoniously contribute to the community -- consequently, its life (whether present or future is merely a matter of semantics and irrelevant) has value and should be treasured.

Your words are very fancy.

But I don't think everyone who is "committed" of a heinous crime worthy of the death penalty actually deserves the death penalty.

Not only do I believe the possibility that a small percentage of people "accused" could be wrongfully put to death is just horrifying to ponder, but I also believe death in itself is a punishment I don't see as decent for any crime, for personal reasons.

[PlatoByProxy]

Because the value of a life is an objective quantity that can be scientifically measured.

I am not attempting to measure the value of a life; I am merely stating that some lives have value while others do not. For example, I haven't the foggiest idea how far away Betelgeuse is and can't even hazard a guess as to the distance. Moreover, I do not know whether it is larger than Alpha Centauri or not. However, I can state that it isn't within 50 miles of me and that it is larger than a common mouse. Similarly, I refrain from making comparisons between the value of two virtuous lives, but note that some have no value whatsoever, such as those of flagitious individuals.

[Hayteria]

Now you're just strawmanning. While I don't believe in the ideas of rights for embryos and fetuses (well, at least until the third trimester, which is a bit of a grey area) I don't think everyone who does believes in souls. Some people believe that embryos and fetuses deserve rights simply for being "human life." (Ie. having human DNA and being made from a human sperm cell and a human egg cell.)

The argument that an embryo deserves rights because it has human DNA breaks down unless the same people mourn the thousands (or more) blood cells of theirs that die every day.

Again, that's not forming a "new human life" though, like the combination of DNA from sperm and egg cells do. Not that I believe in that philosophy, but it's better to refute that approach directly than just straw-man it as belief in souls.

[Samatolian City-States]

You place no value on your own life, then. Would you place value on the life of another?

Value is an artificial construct that is imposed by the mind. Things only have value because we say they do, hence the value of an object isn't a property of the object itself but a property of either society or the individual.

What you see, hear, smell, taste, and touch are only your interpretations of electrical signals sent by stimuli receptors to your brain. An artificial construct. What do we sentient beings have besides thought, and the mind?

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Again, that's not forming a "new human life" though, like the combination of DNA from sperm and egg cells do. Not that I believe in that philosophy, but it's better to refute that approach directly than just straw-man it as belief in souls.

There's no difference in complexity between my skin cells (which die all the time), and a zygote. Why is there a moral difference between the two? The "new human life" argument is totally arbitrary and has no justification as an imposed condition. It's just added so that the argument against abortion "works", kinda sorta not really.