Your plan for America?

[Death Metal]

Restore gold/silver standard = get rid of the Fed = USD worth a lot more.

Abolish legal tender = get rid of the Fed = Free banking = Many currencies to choose from.

= No value in any of them

[Amacia]

Abolish legal tender = get rid of the Fed = Free banking = Many currencies to choose from.

= No value in any of them

You know, I'm getting really sick of these one liners that don't explain why it is right or wrong.

Nonetheless, how exactly would they have no value?

[Occupied Deutschland]

Abolish legal tender = get rid of the Fed = Free banking = Many currencies to choose from.

= No value in any of them

Uh...What?

I mean, even assuming the whole plan goes balls-up ungodly bad that STILL means there'll be at least ONE currency.
Or are you seriously arguing the lack of a Federal Reserve will degenerate economical exchange to a barter system

[Socialdemokraterne]

I mean, even assuming the whole plan goes balls-up ungodly bad that STILL means there'll be at least ONE currency.
Or are you seriously arguing the lack of a Federal Reserve will degenerate economical exchange to a barter system

There will be an oligarchy of currencies that win out in the end, most likely. What they are and their value relative to one another will be in constant flux (making transactions and financial planning a bit of a nightmare), but there will still be some sort of currency.

Actually, what I'd expect to see in a modern context is exchanges of data on bank cards and different ranges of usability for said cards. In other words, I'd expect that if you eliminated central banking the entire financial sector would gradually transform into a credit/debit system using no physical currency and having no physical backing at all. It'd still be a fiat system, you'd just be getting a promise of value from banks instead of governments.

Or am I raving like a lunatic?

[Amacia]

I mean, even assuming the whole plan goes balls-up ungodly bad that STILL means there'll be at least ONE currency.
Or are you seriously arguing the lack of a Federal Reserve will degenerate economical exchange to a barter system

There will be an oligarchy of currencies that win out in the end, most likely. What they are and their value relative to one another will be in constant flux (making transactions and financial planning a bit of a nightmare), but there will still be some sort of currency.

Actually, what I'd expect to see in a modern context is exchanges of data on bank cards and different ranges of usability for said cards. In other words, I'd expect that if you eliminated central banking the entire financial sector would gradually transform into a credit/debit system using no physical currency and having no physical backing at all. It'd still be a fiat system, you'd just be getting a promise of value from banks instead of governments.

Or am I raving like a lunatic?

I've already said that it would probably work like NGDP targeting. And if it's more difficult without a central bank then it will prove that currency is a natural monopoly, we shouldn't enforce it beforehand.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Everyone I would like to expand my social and economic plans to include the following.

Economic plan
Tax breaks to important members of society (police officers, doctors, etc)
Tax cuts to the poor
Repeal the age limit on getting a job
Make education optional

Social plan
Censor extremist sites including KKK, Nazi, extremist feminist, terrorist, and other sites of extremist people

Illegalise discrimination against blacks, gays, women, or anyone in public or in getting a job and enfore discrimination laws

[Socialdemokraterne]

Economic plan
Tax breaks to important members of society (police officers, doctors, etc) <---- I can see the reasoning behind this. It provides some incentive to enter these professions.
Tax cuts to the poor <---- OK. Are you going to accompany that with increases in the tax levels for the rest of the brackets to make up the difference?
Repeal the age limit on getting a job <----- You want child labor to become more extensive? Why?
Make education optional <---- At all levels, or at a specific level? If the latter, at which level?

Social plan
Censor extremist sites including KKK, Nazi, extremist feminist, terrorist, and other sites of extremist people <---- You're talking about militant extremists. Don't censor them, investigate them. Their websites are practically a window into their activities, an invaluable resource for law enforcement agencies.

Illegalise discrimination against blacks, gays, women, or anyone in public or in getting a job and enfore discrimination laws <---- We've already done this.

[Crogach]

Honestly, what I'd like to see in the short term is basically a second New Deal combined with major changes to our current banking system, and in the long term I'd like to see America move toward where the Nordic countries are now in terms of social and economic policy, but maintaining a strong manufacturing sector and a highly diversified economy. I laid out a lot of this across multiple different posts on other fora, and I'm going to wind up linking to it rather than posting it all in one place because there isn't room. I'm fairly curious to see what people think of this and I'd like feedback if possible. Here's the general overview of the initial New Deal plan:

http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewt ... f=47&t=184

I went into a bit more detail about why I favor the tax reforms that I suggested in the first link, I offer a similar (if somewhat incomplete) rationale for dealing with debt in the second, the third and forth go more into detail on possible avenues for addressing the unemployment problem, and the fifth discusses possible avenues for dealing with campaign finance and lobbying reform:

http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewt ... p=119#p119
http://occupywallst.org/forum/everybody ... ent-246898
http://occupywallst.org/forum/revive-th ... d-the-wpa/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/could-hig ... ent-197932
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gyt ... n_US&pli=1

Over the long term, I have a couple of ideas about getting a better handle on central banking and cleaning up the mainstream media:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-wall- ... ent-592661
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewt ... f=47&t=585
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-mains ... ts-great-/

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Economic plan
Tax breaks to important members of society (police officers, doctors, etc) <---- I can see the reasoning behind this. It provides some incentive to enter these professions.
Tax cuts to the poor <---- OK. Are you going to accompany that with increases in the tax levels for the rest of the brackets to make up the difference?
Repeal the age limit on getting a job <----- You want child labor to become more extensive? Why?
Make education optional <---- At all levels, or at a specific level? If the latter, at which level?

Social plan
Censor extremist sites including KKK, Nazi, extremist feminist, terrorist, and other sites of extremist people <---- You're talking about militant extremists. Don't censor them, investigate them. Their websites are practically a window into their activities, an invaluable resource for law enforcement agencies.

Illegalise discrimination against blacks, gays, women, or anyone in public or in getting a job and enfore discrimination laws <---- We've already done this.

No taxes will not go up for everyone else to provide tax cuts to the poor. If there is a deficit after the tax breaks than spending cuts will make up the difference. I belive that young people who qualify have the right to get a job if they choose, only if they choose and for the same wage as everyone else. And optional until the male/female is able to give a choice. And often times companies are allowed to get away with discrimination against blacks or women or whatever, I would publicly enforce it.

[Socialdemokraterne]

Honestly, what I'd like to see in the short term is basically a second New Deal combined with major changes to our current banking system, and in the long term I'd like to see America move toward where the Nordic countries are now in terms of social and economic policy, but maintaining a strong manufacturing sector and a highly diversified economy. I laid out a lot of this across multiple different posts on other fora, and I'm going to wind up linking to it rather than posting it all in one place because there isn't room. I'm fairly curious to see what people think of this and I'd like feedback if possible.

That's an awfully large amount of supplementary reading, but the gist of what you're shooting at is summarized here. From this description of the direction you're trying to go, I look upon your plan favorably. Which Nordic model are you preferring to go after? I'm particularly fond of the Danish model myself.

[Crogach]

Honestly, what I'd like to see in the short term is basically a second New Deal combined with major changes to our current banking system, and in the long term I'd like to see America move toward where the Nordic countries are now in terms of social and economic policy, but maintaining a strong manufacturing sector and a highly diversified economy. I laid out a lot of this across multiple different posts on other fora, and I'm going to wind up linking to it rather than posting it all in one place because there isn't room. I'm fairly curious to see what people think of this and I'd like feedback if possible.

That's an awfully large amount of supplementary reading, but the gist of what you're shooting at is summarized here. From this description of the direction you're trying to go, I look upon your plan favorably. Which Nordic model are you preferring to go after? I'm particularly fond of the Danish model myself.

I'm quite fond of the Danish model as well; I'm starting to hear some complaints about how parts of Denmark's economy isn't sustainable but a population of 300 million and a strong, diverse, manufacturing-heavy economy would probably be able to alleviate some of those concerns. I'm looking to create a healthy balance between the public and private sectors in which people can turn to the private sector for breadth of services, luxuries, etc. and then the state takes responsibility for the people that get left behind by the private sector and keeps the private sector honest and efficient. I'm not sure if I necessarily want to engage in redistribution of wealth to the degree that Denmark does, but what I would like to set as a benchmark for success is 97% or more of the population living at or above 2.5 times the poverty line and I would have no problem engaging in as much redistribution as is necessary to produce that outcome.

[Rick Rollin]

Everyone I would like to expand my social and economic plans to include the following.

Economic plan
Tax breaks to important members of society (police officers, doctors, etc)
Tax cuts to the poor
Repeal the age limit on getting a job
Make education optional

Social plan
Censor extremist sites including KKK, Nazi, extremist feminist, terrorist, and other sites of extremist people

Illegalise discrimination against blacks, gays, women, or anyone in public or in getting a job and enfore discrimination laws

Yet moar Stalinism.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Everyone I would like to expand my social and economic plans to include the following.

Economic plan
Tax breaks to important members of society (police officers, doctors, etc)
Tax cuts to the poor
Repeal the age limit on getting a job
Make education optional

Social plan
Censor extremist sites including KKK, Nazi, extremist feminist, terrorist, and other sites of extremist people

Illegalise discrimination against blacks, gays, women, or anyone in public or in getting a job and enfore discrimination laws

Yet moar Stalinism.

Censoring Nazis and racists? Do you want the KKK and other extremist orginisations to be able to say black people are bad? Or that people should blow up buildings?

[Genivaria]

Everyone I would like to expand my social and economic plans to include the following.

Economic plan
Tax breaks to important members of society (police officers, doctors, etc)
Tax cuts to the poor
Repeal the age limit on getting a job
Make education optional

Social plan
Censor extremist sites including KKK, Nazi, extremist feminist, terrorist, and other sites of extremist people

Illegalise discrimination against blacks, gays, women, or anyone in public or in getting a job and enfore discrimination laws

Yet moar Stalinism.

Thats hardly Stalinism. A little bit too authoritarian for my taste with censoring extremist groups, but not Stalinist.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Yet moar Stalinism.

Thats hardly Stalinism. A little bit too authoritarian for my taste with censoring extremist groups, but not Stalinist.

Do you have a problem with Nazis not being able to preach anti semitic views on the internet? Or the KKK not being allowed to post racist views on the internet? Or terrorists not being able to call for people to blow up buildings on the internet? Or for extremist Feminists to say men should be killed on the internet?

[Rick Rollin]

Yet moar Stalinism.

Censoring Nazis and racists? Do you want the KKK and other extremist orginisations to be able to say black people are bad? Or that people should blow up buildings?

He also wants child labor and preference for government officials.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Censoring Nazis and racists? Do you want the KKK and other extremist orginisations to be able to say black people are bad? Or that people should blow up buildings?

He also wants child labor and preference for government officials.

I said I want young people to be given the option to get a job early on if they choose, and for the same wage as everyone else, and only if they choose. And I said no preference for government officials.

[Rick Rollin]

He also wants child labor and preference for government officials.

I said I want young people to be given the option to get a job early on if they choose, and for the same wage as everyone else, and only if they choose.

Happened in the Soviet Union.

And I said no preference for government officials.

You wanted to give them tax breaks.

[The ancient Kingdom of Putacaia]

Behold the grand inquisistor of faith and democracy, the god emperor of mankind, the one who will balance the scales of justice and destroy all evil which plagues the earth, the one who will transform the earth into a cyberpunk paradise!
By the way I'm not some sort of zealout.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

I said I want young people to be given the option to get a job early on if they choose, and for the same wage as everyone else, and only if they choose.

Happened in the Soviet Union.

And I said no preference for government officials.

You wanted to give them tax breaks.

I said tax breaks for important people in society. And who the Hell cares if young people worked in the SU? Does that mean the whole idea is Stallinist?

[Rick Rollin]

Happened in the Soviet Union.

You wanted to give them tax breaks.

I said tax breaks for important people in society. And who the Hell cares if young people worked in the SU? Does that mean the whole idea is Stallinist?

No, but most of your other ideas were Stalinist, so it kinda fits the ideology.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

I said tax breaks for important people in society. And who the Hell cares if young people worked in the SU? Does that mean the whole idea is Stallinist?

No, but most of your other ideas were Stalinist, so it kinda fits the ideology.

Mind telling me which other ideas? And please tell me how their Stalinist.

[Genivaria]

Thats hardly Stalinism. A little bit too authoritarian for my taste with censoring extremist groups, but not Stalinist.

Do you have a problem with Nazis not being able to preach anti semitic views on the internet? Or the KKK not being allowed to post racist views on the internet? Or terrorists not being able to call for people to blow up buildings on the internet? Or for extremist Feminists to say men should be killed on the internet?

Yes I DO have a problem with that, because if you do that then you set a precedent that it is ok to silence people who the government calls "terrorists". The government did exactly that to socialists, communists, and trade unionists in the 1950's.
I DISAGREE with alot of people, but I don't think they should be silenced.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Do you have a problem with Nazis not being able to preach anti semitic views on the internet? Or the KKK not being allowed to post racist views on the internet? Or terrorists not being able to call for people to blow up buildings on the internet? Or for extremist Feminists to say men should be killed on the internet?

Yes I DO have a problem with that, because if you do that then you set a precedent that it is ok to silence people who the government calls "terrorists". The government did exactly that to socialists, communists, and trade unionists in the 1950's.
I DISAGREE with alot of people, but I don't think they should be silenced.

I meant REAL terrorists, like Al Quida, people who say people should blow up buildings or people who call for genocide or for blacks to be slaves again. Some people actually fall for stuff terrorists post online and blow up a building.

[The Fallow Lands]

The free market will fix everything. Just as in any natural and organic system, the economy will find its way to equilibrium and efficiency if we just abolish all taxes, regulaations and subsidies. I would deregulate gradually over a few years, starting with a repeal of legal tender laws and capital gains tax so as to allow for barter, free trade and monetary competition, as well as allowing anyone to trade and run a business, taking away the need for registration and licensing, and putting and end to every prohibition. As people set up businesses in agriculture and manufacturing to compete with contemporary oligopolies, I would abolish regulatory departments such as the FDA, DEA, EPA, etc., and leave any property damage and negative externalities to tort law. I would abolish the Department of. Education and allow academic innovation to be driven by competition. Eventually, everything will be privatized, profit incentives would encourage capitalists to maintain resources, thus effectively eliminating the Tragedy of the Commons, and the government would be liquidated and unable to interfere with the people's liberty to trade and produce.

Anarchy FTW
Vote for the Libertarian Party
Ron Paul 2012