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Your plan for America?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Tlaceceyaya
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Posts: 9932
Founded: Oct 17, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tlaceceyaya » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:58 am

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:[Spoiler moved to my post so I don't mess up the quote feature]

Government

Implement strict laws about who may vote, though they may not be related to race, creed, gender, &c. Make IDs compulsory for voting, and make said voting laws related to intelligence and knowledge about government and economics. Infeasible. It would lead to whomever chooses who votes having all of the power.
Repeal the Seventeenth Amendment to the Constitution. The seventeenth amendment is similar to something I would want for Canada's senate.
Repeal the Affordable Care Act (or whatever it's technical name is) and implement a universal healthcare system.
Outlaw the death penalty.
Implement punishments such as flogging (private for women, public for men) for petty crimes such as theft. WHAT THE FUCK?!
Implement a simpler income tax system, with those making under $50,000 a year paying 15%, those under $250,000 paying 20%, and those above $250,000 paying 25-30%. Meh. Too low and not progressive enough.
Prohibit women from serving in combat roles in all branches of the federal military. Need I explain why this is coloured FF0000?
Redirect more of the military budget to the salaries of those serving, instead of building so many more ships and such.
I'm sure someone is going to ask, so uphold the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." That means don't have it, right?
•Drop the voluntary enlistment age to 16.
Pass laws stating that anyone who is caught driving or operating a vehicle or plane while under the influence will have their license revoked for five years, those who drive (or fly) without a license will be jailed for two-six years, and those that cause another person's death or grievous injury will be jailed for life. Uh, no. First, five years is a long time. Second, life in prison for causing someone's death while you didn't even have full control of your faculties? Why not just draw and quarter drunk drivers?
Begin using corporal punishment in schools again, and teach discipline and morality along with other subjects. NO.
Put the schools (still controlled by the states) under federal supervision, sending federal inspectors on surprise visits to schools several times a year and observing their students' records, and sending extra funds to those schools that are not doing well. Set high standards, so that, as a NS issue says, "even the smart students will sweat."
Redirect a lot of the welfare budget to helping people find jobs. People on welfare are able to find jobs to apply to. They're just not accepted because of discrimination against the unemployed.
Abolish term limits.
•Outlaw "Executive Orders," except with approval from the Senate.
Pay off foreign debt by heavily taxing marijuana, and redirecting 10% of each of the budgets (environment, military, &c) to it. Leave that debt held by U.S. citizens. Heavily taxing it? Dealers could sell it for less than what would be required to pay off foreign debt.
Let private companies keep up (not own) national parks and forests, in return for governmental recognition and thanks (big-time advertising). Corporations cut corners to save money; sweep things under the rug.
•Return to the PATRIOT Act's original form.
Reduce corruption in government by punishing bribery and other such crimes with removal from public office, banning from ever holding public office again, and being arrested and imprisoned for 10-20 years. All but the imprisonment.
Pass laws stating that only those born in the United States or one of their territories may hold public office in any capacity. How about no? People don't get to look at a line of women who just had sex and choose which one to go into.
Retake the Panama Canal, and various other former territories. Encourage Britain, France, and Germany to do the same.
It's ours. The only reason Panama is even a country is because we wanted a canal there and Columbia said no.


Social

Repeal Roe vs. Wade, making the killing of the unborn illegal except in cases that endanger the mother's life.
Pass a law or laws giving the state government freedom to crush any riot or protest it deems appropriate, and allow the state to request federal troops if they deem it necessary. If the state's not doing anything bad, they have no reason to fear the people.
Keep the federal government out of marriage, and let each state decide what laws to make about the institution.
Legalise marijuana and tax it heavily to pay off the debt to foreign countries. Already addressed.
Repeal the ban on automatic weapons.
Pass a federal law saying that it is legal to use lethal force on someone invading your property. If you add in "if you feel that your life is in danger" then okay. How you said it makes it possible for me to invite someone into my home, tell them to leave and then crack their skull open with an axe.
Prohibit persons that have a criminal record relating to violent crimes and those with mental disorders from owning firearms.
Ask each state to up their police budget (and possibly give them money to do so), to put more men on the streets especially in the 'bad parts' of the cities.
Legalise duelling with government-approved seconds. Unless you mean non-lethal duelling, no.
Pass a federal law effectively repealing all state laws stating that restaurants and stores must have separate rooms and ventilation for those who want to smoke, or that you may not smoke in certain areas (excluding doctor's offices and hospitals). Smoking in public harms non-consenting people.
Outlaw euthanasia.
Repeal all federal laws and judgements regarding religion, deeming them unconstitutional according to the First Amendment.
Have rapists castrated. Condition: Those who are "rapists" according to the law basically saying that if you have sex with someone underage it was rape should be exempt from this.
Outlaw bestiality.
Strictly implement the Smith Act, and vigorously and enthusiastically punish treason and sedition.
•Implement the United Kingdom's alcohol laws.
Economic Left/Right -9.75, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -8.87
Also, Bonobos.
I am a market socialist, atheist, more to come maybe at some point
Dimitri Tsafendas wrote:You are guilty not only when you commit a crime, but also when you do nothing to prevent it when you have the chance.

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Prussia-Steinbach
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Founded: Mar 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:46 pm

No comment on the economic policies?
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Nordengrund
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Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nordengrund » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:54 pm

I would outlaw abortion in all cases except when a mother's health is at risk. I would make contraceptives cheaper and legal as long as the sperm and egg are not fertiluzed. I will ard on later, it is ard to type here.
1 John 1:9

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Tlaceceyaya
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Founded: Oct 17, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tlaceceyaya » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:11 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:No comment on the economic policies?

I don't care for economics all that much.
Economic Left/Right -9.75, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -8.87
Also, Bonobos.
I am a market socialist, atheist, more to come maybe at some point
Dimitri Tsafendas wrote:You are guilty not only when you commit a crime, but also when you do nothing to prevent it when you have the chance.

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Tlaceceyaya
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Founded: Oct 17, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tlaceceyaya » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:16 pm

Nordengrund wrote:I would outlaw abortion in all cases except when a mother's health is at risk. I would make contraceptives cheaper and legal as long as the sperm and egg are not fertiluzed. I will ard on later, it is ard to type here.

Ah, the magical fertilization of sperm and egg. When god puts a soul in the two cells.

Tell me, what's the difference between a zygote and a bunch of sperm just released and seeking out an egg? Without contraception, there's a pretty good chance of one of the sperm fertilizing the egg and becoming a zygote. Even with contraception, there's still a chance of that.
So, what's so magical about a zygote? It is:
•Incapable of thought
•Incapable of surviving on its own
•Incapable of moving on its own
•Only capable of growing.
Sounds sort of like a houseplant.
Economic Left/Right -9.75, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -8.87
Also, Bonobos.
I am a market socialist, atheist, more to come maybe at some point
Dimitri Tsafendas wrote:You are guilty not only when you commit a crime, but also when you do nothing to prevent it when you have the chance.

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Prussia-Steinbach
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Founded: Mar 12, 2012
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:56 pm

Nordengrund wrote:I would make contraceptives cheaper...

How?
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Nordengrund
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Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nordengrund » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:57 pm

Tlaceceyaya wrote:
Nordengrund wrote:I would outlaw abortion in all cases except when a mother's health is at risk. I would make contraceptives cheaper and legal as long as the sperm and egg are not fertiluzed. I will ard on later, it is ard to type here.

Ah, the magical fertilization of sperm and egg. When god puts a soul in the two cells.

Tell me, what's the difference between a zygote and a bunch of sperm just released and seeking out an egg? Without contraception, there's a pretty good chance of one of the sperm fertilizing the egg and becoming a zygote. Even with contraception, there's still a chance of that.
So, what's so magical about a zygote? It is:
•Incapable of thought
•Incapable of surviving on its own
•Incapable of moving on its own
•Only capable of growing.
Sounds sort of like a houseplant.


A house plant is alive.

Do you agree that a cell is a living thing.
Last edited by Nordengrund on Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1 John 1:9

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Farnhamia
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Posts: 111671
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:00 pm

Nordengrund wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:Ah, the magical fertilization of sperm and egg. When god puts a soul in the two cells.

Tell me, what's the difference between a zygote and a bunch of sperm just released and seeking out an egg? Without contraception, there's a pretty good chance of one of the sperm fertilizing the egg and becoming a zygote. Even with contraception, there's still a chance of that.
So, what's so magical about a zygote? It is:
•Incapable of thought
•Incapable of surviving on its own
•Incapable of moving on its own
•Only capable of growing.
Sounds sort of like a houseplant.


A house plant is alive.

Do you agree that a cell is a living thing.

The key word there being "thing." Not person, thing.
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Tlaceceyaya
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Posts: 9932
Founded: Oct 17, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tlaceceyaya » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:13 pm

Nordengrund wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:Ah, the magical fertilization of sperm and egg. When god puts a soul in the two cells.

Tell me, what's the difference between a zygote and a bunch of sperm just released and seeking out an egg? Without contraception, there's a pretty good chance of one of the sperm fertilizing the egg and becoming a zygote. Even with contraception, there's still a chance of that.
So, what's so magical about a zygote? It is:
•Incapable of thought
•Incapable of surviving on its own
•Incapable of moving on its own
•Only capable of growing.
Sounds sort of like a houseplant.


A house plant is alive.

Do you agree that a cell is a living thing.

So what if the house plant is alive? You don't care if I just stop watering it, or throw it into the garbage. Why do you care about a clump of cells inside a woman's uterus but not a matured structure of cells inside a person's flower pot?
Economic Left/Right -9.75, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -8.87
Also, Bonobos.
I am a market socialist, atheist, more to come maybe at some point
Dimitri Tsafendas wrote:You are guilty not only when you commit a crime, but also when you do nothing to prevent it when you have the chance.

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Socialdemokraterne
Minister
 
Posts: 3448
Founded: Dec 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialdemokraterne » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:14 pm

Nordengrund wrote:A house plant is alive.

Do you agree that a cell is a living thing.


Yes, I agree that cells are living things. Do you agree that there is a difference between a human cell and a human person? Or are you committing murder every time you scrape off skin cells?
A social democracy following a variant of the Nordic model of the European welfare state composed of a union of Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Greenland, Denmark, Sleswig-Holstein, and a bit of Estonia.

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The United Soviet Socialist Republic
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Founded: Aug 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The United Soviet Socialist Republic » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:30 pm

This is still going?
Gay and Proudand also a brony
Political Compass:Left: 7.76, Authoritarian: 5.6
I am: Fascist/Corporatist on economy,
Conservative on social issues(Support same sex marriage),
Anti secularist on religion,
Anti-Republican on government,
Interventionist/Imperialist on international issues

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Dracone
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Posts: 667
Founded: Jul 31, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Dracone » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:16 pm

The United Soviet Socialist Republic wrote:Well I decided it would be fun to see what NS thinks is the best way to solve the USA economic situation. Well NS what is it? Tax hikes? Spending cuts? Me? You can see my complete political agenda below. And please no debate on whether abortion or gay marrige are good or not, this is a thread to debate other people's plans, not debate the credibility of abortion or gay rights.

Economic policy

Create a progressive tax system taxing the rich more than the poor, cut billions worth of uneeded spending out of the budget, nationalise the oil industry, nationalise healthcare and provide it universal, drill for oil in Alaska, legalize hemp and make it a government industry.

Social policy

Create a conservative social policy pushing states to illegalise abortion and gay marrige as well as ensuring the death penalty is legal and highly used.

International policy

Make a semi interventionist international policy however only go to war with another country should they be directly threatening to attack US soil.

Your policy NS?

Economically: legalize and tax all drugs and prostitution. Create a flat tax system.
Socially: withdraw goverment control from as much as physcally possibble (both because I beleive that the goverment should keep its hands to itself in almost all situations, but also because it would cut costs from all the people no longer working for the goverment)

Internationally: War. Lots of it. recall all soldiers from foreign aid missions. Mobilize them in a war of conquest against Mexico and down south from there. Why? because the winners of wars always have an economic boom from the resources they gained. And theres alot of resources in South America... In addition, it would give a good excuse for propaganda purposes to get people to buy govwerment bonds and such... Once we control everything from where we are now south then we can stop the endless wars, and we will be in an economic position to have solved our problems (atleast if the goverment doesnt try and do charity work and stuff afterwardfs... thatd deplete us again)
I will not source my infoprmation 99.9% of the time. If we were talking fact to face you wouldnt ask for a source, so judge what i say on its own basis, not on whether I source it, beecause I wont. Neither will I require a source, so long as the argument makes sense.

Also, Im here to have fun. If a debate gets boring, expect me to leave.

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Natty Narwhal
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Founded: Jun 10, 2011
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Postby Natty Narwhal » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:18 pm

No matter what you choose, a large portion of people will either naturally oppose or be convinced to oppose it. Not everybody can be happy. Ever.
All the people I admire can fly -
Why can't I do that?

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Nordengrund
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Founded: Jun 20, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nordengrund » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:19 pm

Tlaceceyaya wrote:
Nordengrund wrote:
A house plant is alive.

Do you agree that a cell is a living thing.

So what if the house plant is alive? You don't care if I just stop watering it, or throw it into the garbage. Why do you care about a clump of cells inside a woman's uterus but not a matured structure of cells inside a person's flower pot?


A cell is a living thing. A fetus is made up of these cells. Because these cells are living things, therefore the fetus in and of itself is alive.
1 John 1:9

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Samuraikoku
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Founded: May 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Samuraikoku » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:21 pm

Nordengrund wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:So what if the house plant is alive? You don't care if I just stop watering it, or throw it into the garbage. Why do you care about a clump of cells inside a woman's uterus but not a matured structure of cells inside a person's flower pot?


A cell is a living thing. A fetus is made up of these cells. Because these cells are living things, therefore the fetus in and of itself is alive.


So is a cancerous tumor.

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Tlaceceyaya
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Founded: Oct 17, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tlaceceyaya » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:41 pm

Nordengrund wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:So what if the house plant is alive? You don't care if I just stop watering it, or throw it into the garbage. Why do you care about a clump of cells inside a woman's uterus but not a matured structure of cells inside a person's flower pot?


A cell is a living thing. A fetus is made up of these cells. Because these cells are living things, therefore the fetus in and of itself is alive.

How does that address what I said? You don't care if I throw a houseplant in the garbage. It's alive.
Economic Left/Right -9.75, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian -8.87
Also, Bonobos.
I am a market socialist, atheist, more to come maybe at some point
Dimitri Tsafendas wrote:You are guilty not only when you commit a crime, but also when you do nothing to prevent it when you have the chance.

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Prussia-Steinbach
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Founded: Mar 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:07 pm

The United Soviet Socialist Republic wrote:This is still going?

Well, it wasn't. Someone gravedug it, and I guess the mods didn't catch it.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Paulmania
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Founded: Aug 09, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Paulmania » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:28 pm

Shut off any spending that does nothing to alleviate our national crisis. Phase out social security and Medicare, even if it may take decades. Kick the military in the ass. Declare the income tax unconstitutional.

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Trollgaard
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Founded: Mar 01, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Trollgaard » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:22 pm

Paulmania wrote:Shut off any spending that does nothing to alleviate our national crisis. Phase out social security and Medicare, even if it may take decades. Kick the military in the ass. Declare the income tax unconstitutional.


Sounds like you want a popularly supported military coup. Great job!

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Norsklow
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Founded: Aug 22, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Norsklow » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:43 pm

Trollgaard wrote:
Paulmania wrote:Shut off any spending that does nothing to alleviate our national crisis. Phase out social security and Medicare, even if it may take decades. Kick the military in the ass. Declare the income tax unconstitutional.


Sounds like you want a popularly supported military coup. Great job!


isn't that sort of part of the American Tradition?
Joseph Stalin, 20 million plus dead -Mao-Tse-Dong, 40 million plus dead - Pol Pot, 2 million dead -Kim-Il-Sung, 5 million dead - Fidel Castro, 1 million dead.

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything, with nothing"

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Paulmania
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Founded: Aug 09, 2012
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Postby Paulmania » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:51 pm

Trollgaard wrote:
Paulmania wrote:Shut off any spending that does nothing to alleviate our national crisis. Phase out social security and Medicare, even if it may take decades. Kick the military in the ass. Declare the income tax unconstitutional.


Sounds like you want a popularly supported military coup. Great job!


Eliminating the income tax, ending the military obsession, and gradually eliminating social services that are drawing their last breaths anyway = uprising?

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Prussia-Steinbach
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Founded: Mar 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:57 pm

Paulmania wrote:
Trollgaard wrote:
Sounds like you want a popularly supported military coup. Great job!


Eliminating the income tax, ending the military's pay, recognition and honour, and gradually eliminating social services that are drawing their last breaths anyway = uprising?

Yes.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Socialdemokraterne
Minister
 
Posts: 3448
Founded: Dec 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialdemokraterne » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:10 pm

Nordengrund wrote:A cell is a living thing.


True!

A fetus is made up of these cells.


Fetuses are indeed made of cells. True again!

Because these cells are living things, therefore the fetus in and of itself is alive.


Yep, three for three!

Now, here's the million dollar question: are the terms "alive" and "person" synonyms? No one is (that I know of) making the argument that fetuses aren't alive. As far as I am aware the argument is that they don't bear personhood.
Last edited by Socialdemokraterne on Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A social democracy following a variant of the Nordic model of the European welfare state composed of a union of Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Greenland, Denmark, Sleswig-Holstein, and a bit of Estonia.

Leder du måske efter en dansk region? Dansk!

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Divair
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Founded: May 06, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Divair » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:12 am

Natty Narwhal wrote:No matter what you choose, a large portion of people will either naturally oppose or be convinced to oppose it. Not everybody can be happy. Ever.

And?

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Cameroi
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Founded: Dec 24, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Cameroi » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:34 am

the whole thing that's dragging the world down is putting little green pieces of paper ahead of real people places and things. what we need instead, is alternative energy, transportation and a wpa. and getting corporate economics out of politics. we also need to stop looking for excuses to start wars for the convenience and profit of corporate crime.
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"economic freedom" is "the cake"
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