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Your plan for America?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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The Anglo-Saxon Empire
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13903
Founded: Nov 21, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Anglo-Saxon Empire » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:37 am

Hittanryan wrote:
Tyler Schrakamp wrote:1. Replace the federal income tax with a requirement each state to pay the federal government 20% of GDP; the states can raise the money however they like.
2. Cut spending across the board by 10%.
3. Reinstitute universal conscription.
4. Establish a school voucher system.
5. Ban abortion, gay marriage, pornography, adultery and fornication.
6. Focus government resources on improving infrastructure.
7. Replace prisons with labor camps.
8. Allow oil/ natural gas drilling on federal lands; grant approval for keystone.
9. Pull out of Iraq, limit troop presence in Afghanistan.

:rofl:

1. What's the point?
2. Cutting spending during a recession? Do you want things to get worse?
3. To what end? Conscripts perform worse than volunteers and there are no conventional wars on the horizon.
4. Great, religious brainwashing and worsening the problems US students have with science, math, and engineering.
5. Let me guess, you're a big fan of how Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Taliban ran their governments?
6. How do you plan on doing this while taking an axe to the budget?
7. Convicts now replace law-abiding citizens in the job market. Lovely.
8. Gas prices are driven by global demand and speculation. The oil sands, Keystone, drilling in the Gulf and Arctic, none of it will do a damn thing. Even if we drill oil in the US, there's nothing saying it must be sold to the US.
9. We're already doing that.

3. To be fair unconventional wars are more manpower intensive than conventional conflicts.
4. No one says that the schools have to be religious schools, or that you have to go. In my experience catholic schools are better than public schools in every area sans sports anyway, in spite of the religious doctrine.
6. By spending significantly less in other areas. Infrastructure spending is never really that much in the grand scheme of things, and unless we increased it to retarded levels it still would be nothing compared to social or military spending. Also general spending cuts doesn't mean everything gets cut. If you decide to spend 10% less you can still spend the same amount on food, you will just have to cut it more in other areas, like your entertainment budget.
8. :palm:
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Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 111674
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:53 am

The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:
Hittanryan wrote: :rofl:

1. What's the point?
2. Cutting spending during a recession? Do you want things to get worse?
3. To what end? Conscripts perform worse than volunteers and there are no conventional wars on the horizon.
4. Great, religious brainwashing and worsening the problems US students have with science, math, and engineering.
5. Let me guess, you're a big fan of how Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Taliban ran their governments?
6. How do you plan on doing this while taking an axe to the budget?
7. Convicts now replace law-abiding citizens in the job market. Lovely.
8. Gas prices are driven by global demand and speculation. The oil sands, Keystone, drilling in the Gulf and Arctic, none of it will do a damn thing. Even if we drill oil in the US, there's nothing saying it must be sold to the US.
9. We're already doing that.

3. To be fair unconventional wars are more manpower intensive than conventional conflicts.
4. No one says that the schools have to be religious schools, or that you have to go. In my experience catholic schools are better than public schools in every area sans sports anyway, in spite of the religious doctrine.
6. By spending significantly less in other areas. Infrastructure spending is never really that much in the grand scheme of things, and unless we increased it to retarded levels it still would be nothing compared to social or military spending. Also general spending cuts doesn't mean everything gets cut. If you decide to spend 10% less you can still spend the same amount on food, you will just have to cut it more in other areas, like your entertainment budget.
8. :palm:

4. Sauce? That's an awfully large generalization there.
6. Again, cutting spending in a recession is absurd.
8. Explain the sibirsky, please.
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Hittanryan
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9061
Founded: Mar 10, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Hittanryan » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:06 am

The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:
Hittanryan wrote: :rofl:

1. What's the point?
2. Cutting spending during a recession? Do you want things to get worse?
3. To what end? Conscripts perform worse than volunteers and there are no conventional wars on the horizon.
4. Great, religious brainwashing and worsening the problems US students have with science, math, and engineering.
5. Let me guess, you're a big fan of how Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Taliban ran their governments?
6. How do you plan on doing this while taking an axe to the budget?
7. Convicts now replace law-abiding citizens in the job market. Lovely.
8. Gas prices are driven by global demand and speculation. The oil sands, Keystone, drilling in the Gulf and Arctic, none of it will do a damn thing. Even if we drill oil in the US, there's nothing saying it must be sold to the US.
9. We're already doing that.

3. To be fair unconventional wars are more manpower intensive than conventional conflicts.
4. No one says that the schools have to be religious schools, or that you have to go. In my experience catholic schools are better than public schools in every area sans sports anyway, in spite of the religious doctrine.
6. By spending significantly less in other areas. Infrastructure spending is never really that much in the grand scheme of things, and unless we increased it to retarded levels it still would be nothing compared to social or military spending. Also general spending cuts doesn't mean everything gets cut. If you decide to spend 10% less you can still spend the same amount on food, you will just have to cut it more in other areas, like your entertainment budget.
8. :palm:

4. You haven't heard of what's happened in Louisiana recently, have you?
6. Cutting spending in recession is universally considered, except amongst teabaggers with no knowledge of the economy, to be a bad idea. I'm not sure if you even realize the full scope of what you've just said. Let's say you slash all welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, all of it. Now money that would have been spent on consumer goods, driving the economy, is now being spent entirely on basic survival necessities. Now the companies making those consumer goods have fewer customers, make less money, and lay people off. In addition to unemployment, you'll get crime rates increasing as people get desperate. Does that sound good to you?
8. What a compelling argument, but please, keep telling yourself the oil market isn't globalized. China and India's growing demand has a far larger impact on oil prices than anything we do here. The US is a net oil exporter for the first time in its history, and gas prices are still hitting record highs every summer. Also, good luck telling the oil companies they HAVE to sell their gas in the US. Furthermore, new oil wells take at least a decade to come online anyway.
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Divair
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63434
Founded: May 06, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Divair » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:37 am

The Anglo-Saxon Empire wrote:
Hittanryan wrote: :rofl:

1. What's the point?
2. Cutting spending during a recession? Do you want things to get worse?
3. To what end? Conscripts perform worse than volunteers and there are no conventional wars on the horizon.
4. Great, religious brainwashing and worsening the problems US students have with science, math, and engineering.
5. Let me guess, you're a big fan of how Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Taliban ran their governments?
6. How do you plan on doing this while taking an axe to the budget?
7. Convicts now replace law-abiding citizens in the job market. Lovely.
8. Gas prices are driven by global demand and speculation. The oil sands, Keystone, drilling in the Gulf and Arctic, none of it will do a damn thing. Even if we drill oil in the US, there's nothing saying it must be sold to the US.
9. We're already doing that.

3. To be fair unconventional wars are more manpower intensive than conventional conflicts.
4. No one says that the schools have to be religious schools, or that you have to go. In my experience catholic schools are better than public schools in every area sans sports anyway, in spite of the religious doctrine.
6. By spending significantly less in other areas. Infrastructure spending is never really that much in the grand scheme of things, and unless we increased it to retarded levels it still would be nothing compared to social or military spending. Also general spending cuts doesn't mean everything gets cut. If you decide to spend 10% less you can still spend the same amount on food, you will just have to cut it more in other areas, like your entertainment budget.
8. :palm:

4. Source.
6. Cutting spending is a horrible idea that doesn't work. Look at Europe. They tried to cut spending and look at the mess they are in. Now look at FDR, who raised spending. He saved the USA during the Great Depression. Spending = good.
8. It's true.

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Trefeqia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 717
Founded: Jun 13, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Trefeqia » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:52 am

I will like a separation of church and state.
Legalize same-sex marriage in every state.
Ban Arizona SB 1070 law.
Create new jobs.
Allow homosexual couples adopt their own child in every state.
Higher taxes, specially for the rich.
Legalize marijuana for 21 years and up.
Stop creating machines to replace people, since I believe technology is the real threat to losing jobs, instead of immigrants.
And ban the death penalty.
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Pronunciation- English: /tʰɹɛ.fɛk.jə/ Trefeqian: Tŗefêqiə- /tʁef.fɛk͡χ.jə/
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Saluterre
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 485
Founded: Jun 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Saluterre » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:16 pm

1. Reinstate Glass-Steagall, which separated investment and private banking.

2. Nationalize foundering big businesses and convert them to worker co-operatives, selling the business back to the workers themselves at a reduced price

3. End Bush tax cuts.

4. Instate "millionaire's tax."

5. Raise taxes on the wealthy.

6. Raise estate tax to Clinton-era rates.

7. Institute a national health service, based off of Beveridge and Bevan's example in Britain.

8. Cut down on military spending.

9. Pull out of Afghanistan, leaving small police force.

10. Hire more teachers.

11. Strengthen education budget and introduce new methods of education.

12. Legalize same-sex marriage.

13. Legalize marijuana, regulate it, and turn it to a taxable commodity.

14. Close Guantanamo Bay; retry prisoners in civilian courts.

15. Eliminate the death penalty.

16. End the two-party system, replace with multi-party democracy.
Last edited by Saluterre on Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Socialdemokraterne
Minister
 
Posts: 3448
Founded: Dec 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialdemokraterne » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:20 pm

Review of Trefequia's Plan

I will like a separation of church and state. <------- US already has that. It just needs to be enforced more strictly. But yup, I like this.
Legalize same-sex marriage in every state. <------- I like it.
Ban Arizona SB 1070 law. <------- As I understand it the law doesn't allow investigation at any time, only during legal stops/arrests and only if ID can't be produced.
Create new jobs. <------- OK. That's not a bad idea. Any suggestions as to how or where? Public or private sector? Stuff like that.
Allow homosexual couples adopt their own child in every state. <------- Me likey.
Higher taxes, specially for the rich. <------ I like progressive taxation, sure. But just increasing taxes is worthless. What are you going to do with the money?
Legalize marijuana for 21 years and up. <------ Not actually sure why it's illegal in the first place.
Stop creating machines to replace people <----- Come on, let's be realistic. You're much better off promoting universal tertiary education than trying to stop technology's advance.
And ban the death penalty. <------ Sure, why not?
Last edited by Socialdemokraterne on Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The United Soviet Socialist Republic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17944
Founded: Aug 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The United Soviet Socialist Republic » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:24 pm

Saluterre wrote:1. Reinstate Glass-Steagall, which separated investment and private banking.

2. Nationalize foundering big businesses and convert them to worker co-operatives, selling the business back to the workers themselves at a reduced price

3. End Bush tax cuts.

4. Instate "millionaire's tax."

5. Raise taxes on the wealthy.

6. Raise estate tax to Clinton-era rates.

7. Cut down on military spending.

8. Pull out of Afghanistan, leaving small police force.

9. Hire more teachers.

10. Strengthen education budget and introduce new methods of education.

11. Legalize same-sex marriage.

12. Legalize marijuana, regulate it, and turn it to a taxable commodity.

13. Close Guantanamo Bay; retry prisoners in civilian courts.

14. Eliminate the death penalty.

15. End the two-party system

1:Neutral

2:Ew

3:Yay!

4:Yay!

5:Yay!

6:Yay!

7:What the Hell?!

8:What the Hell?!

9:Boo!

10:Guns over butter!

11:Boo!

12:Boo!

13:Go terrorism! Boo!

14:Go crime! Boo!

15:Yay dictatorships! Boo!
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Saluterre
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 485
Founded: Jun 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Saluterre » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:31 pm

The United Soviet Socialist Republic wrote:
Saluterre wrote:1. Reinstate Glass-Steagall, which separated investment and private banking.

2. Nationalize foundering big businesses and convert them to worker co-operatives, selling the business back to the workers themselves at a reduced price

3. End Bush tax cuts.

4. Instate "millionaire's tax."

5. Raise taxes on the wealthy.

6. Raise estate tax to Clinton-era rates.

7. Cut down on military spending.

8. Pull out of Afghanistan, leaving small police force.

9. Hire more teachers.

10. Strengthen education budget and introduce new methods of education.

11. Legalize same-sex marriage.

12. Legalize marijuana, regulate it, and turn it to a taxable commodity.

13. Close Guantanamo Bay; retry prisoners in civilian courts.

14. Eliminate the death penalty.

15. End the two-party system

1:Neutral

2:Ew

3:Yay!

4:Yay!

5:Yay!

6:Yay!

7:What the Hell?!

8:What the Hell?!

9:Boo!

10:Guns over butter!

11:Boo!

12:Boo!

13:Go terrorism! Boo!

14:Go crime! Boo!

15:Yay dictatorships! Boo!


2: I don't understand an opposition to workplace democracy.

7 and 8: We need to focus on improving the lives of our citizens.

9: I see no reason for opposition to smaller class sizes and reduced unemployment.

11: Everyone should have equal rights.

12: It would cut down on the prison population, and bring in revenue. Win-win, as it's both cutting spending and raising revenue.

13: The death penalty is outdated and barbaric.

14: Abiding by the founding principles of one's nation is hardly supporting terrorism.

15: I mean, replace it with a multi party system.
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Blakk Metal
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6737
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Blakk Metal » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:32 pm

Rijanan wrote:1.ban ku klux klan groups (they killed my hispanic uncle)
2.execute justin bieber. (umad bieber fags?)
3.ban animal cruelty (i love animals and i hate humans who kill animals.)
4.keep porn legalize. (trust me, people who like porn are gonna go crazy)
5.ban cigars and alcohol (cirgars make attractive women ugly and alcohol kills people)
6.ban wmg umg viacom and other copyright companies (they ruined everything for me!)
7.allow internet users to make edits, ytps, and parodies (i wanna laugh! :(

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Socialdemokraterne
Minister
 
Posts: 3448
Founded: Dec 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialdemokraterne » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:45 pm

Review of Saluterre's Plan

1. Reinstate Glass-Steagall, which separated investment and private banking. <----- You mean reinstating its affiliation restrictions, right? OK. But modify them for a modern context.

2. Nationalize floundering big businesses and convert them to worker co-operatives <----- Actually, this is an interesting idea.

3. End Bush tax cuts. <----- OK. Let's do it.

4. Instate "millionaire's tax." <---- What is that, exactly?

5. Raise taxes on the wealthy. <----- I think we're going to need to do more than just try to pat down the wealthy for every dollar they have.

6. Raise estate tax to Clinton-era rates. <----- Same thing I said one arrow above.

7. Institute a national health service, based off of Beveridge and Bevan's example in Britain. <----- Love the idea of an NHS, unfamiliar with the proposed model.

8. Cut down on military spending. <----- I like it, with an addendum: use the liquidated money to subsidize the workers' co-ops, NHS, and other social programs.

9. Pull out of Afghanistan, leaving small police force. <----- It's probably time already. Continue nation building efforts though, right?

10. Hire more teachers. <----- Complicated thing to do. Will they have to join a union? If not that could undermine the teachers' unions.

11. Strengthen education budget and introduce new methods of education. <----- Any particular method you're eyeballing?

12. Legalize same-sex marriage. <----- Love it.

13. Legalize marijuana, regulate it, and turn it to a taxable commodity. <----- My thoughts exactly. And have a maximum safe blood-THC content for driving just like with alcohol.

14. Close Guantanamo Bay; retry prisoners in civilian courts. <----- I love this idea.

15. Eliminate the death penalty. <---- OK.

16. End the two-party system <----- Yup. Proportional election of the legislature, doing away with the Electoral College system entirely, and using preferential, party-list voting for determining who is the chief executive are my proposed modifications to bring this about.
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Saluterre
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 485
Founded: Jun 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Saluterre » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:04 pm

Socialdemokraterne wrote:Review of Saluterre's Plan

1. Reinstate Glass-Steagall, which separated investment and private banking. <----- You mean reinstating its affiliation restrictions, right? OK. But modify them for a modern context.

Of course. That's necessary.

4. Instate "millionaire's tax." <---- What is that, exactly?

The proposed 30% minimum income tax on incomes of over $1 million a year.

8. Cut down on military spending. <----- I like it, with an addendum: use the liquidated money to subsidize the workers' co-ops, NHS, and other social programs.

Excellent idea.

9. Pull out of Afghanistan, leaving small police force. <----- It's probably time already. Continue nation building efforts though, right?

But of course.

10. Hire more teachers. <----- Complicated thing to do. Will they have to join a union? If not that could undermine the teachers' unions.

I'd say they should. The unions already have enough opponents.

11. Strengthen education budget and introduce new methods of education. <----- Any particular method you're eyeballing?

Well, looking back to school, the classes I excelled in were the ones in which there was a discussion, or a debate. Something to keep us invested in the material. Not just reading out of stuffy old textbook, and watching teachers stand at the front of the class lecturing. A sort of Socratic conversation in the class, in which we were taught to form our own opinions.

16. End the two-party system <----- Yup. Proportional election of the legislature, doing away with the Electoral College system entirely, and using preferential, party-list voting for determining who is the chief executive are my proposed modifications to bring this about.
[/quote]

Exactly :)
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France: Jean-Luc Mélenchon, François Hollande.
Germany: Die Linke
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France: UMP, National Front
Germany: CDU, SPD (right-wing)
Formerly TerraPublica
Proud Socialist

I consider myself a classical Social Democrat, who believes socialism can only be ethically implemented through democratic struggle. I believe in worker co-operatives instead of large corporations, mixed economies, and government support of small businesses. I'm also a social liberal.
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The Great Republic of Drakma
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 192
Founded: May 15, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Great Republic of Drakma » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:08 pm

De Quay wrote:Extermination and repopulation by more correct-thinking peoples currently in overcrowded nations.

It has been truly said that "World peace can only begin when the last American crawls bleeding and dying from the burning wreckage of the last American city"


I hope you burn in hell you jerk. >:(

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New Belhavia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1180
Founded: Jan 06, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby New Belhavia » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:11 pm

Ameridesia wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Canada is horrible. No real bacon or maple syrup for miles.


And you have to add Eh at the end of every sentence.


lol I was thinking the same thing :lol:
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Nabat
Secretary
 
Posts: 37
Founded: Jun 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Nabat » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:32 pm

My cure for America? Merge with Canada and remove the right to vote for the American citizenry. Let a people who know how to run a country without crazies for a change; it's a lot more comfortable.

If you find this post offensive or ignorant, consider the major players in your political game. Every single one of them is a right wing clown who dumbs every statement down to the point of meaning nothing (Protip: if your leader promises to create jobs or lower the price of oil, he's probably full of crap)

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Prussia-Steinbach
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22386
Founded: Mar 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:27 pm

Trefeqia wrote:I will like a separation of church and state.

There already is. First Amendment.
Trefeqia wrote:Legalize same-sex marriage in every state.

There needs to be a Constitutional amendment for that to happen, which would take two-thirds of the States to agree on.
Trefeqia wrote:Ban Arizona SB 1070 law.

"U.S. federal law requires all undocumented residents over the age of 14 who remain in the United States for longer than 30 days to register with the U.S. government, and to have registration documents in their possession at all times. The Arizona Act additionally makes it a state misdemeanor crime for an undocumented resident to be in Arizona without carrying the required documents, requires that state law enforcement officers attempt to determine an individual's immigration status during a "lawful stop, detention or arrest", or during a "lawful contact" not specific to any activity when there is reasonable suspicion that the individual is an undocumented immigrant."
Undocumented residents = Illegal aliens. Notice word "illegal." That law is enforcing our border security, and attempting to crack down on people that are doing things illegally. If you want open borders, just say so, don't dance around it.
Trefeqia wrote:Create new jobs.

It's not that simple. If you could just "create jobs," almost no one would be unemployed - except those that are content with living on welfare.
Trefeqia wrote:Allow homosexual couples adopt their own child in every state.

See my answer to "legalize same-sex marriage."
Trefeqia wrote:Higher taxes, specially for the rich.

Why? To remove their incentive to work? And you want higher taxes on the poor? :palm:
Trefeqia wrote:Legalize marijuana for those 21 18 years and up, and tax it massively to pay off the debt.

Fixed.
Trefeqia wrote:Stop creating machines to replace people, since I believe technology is the real threat to losing jobs, instead of immigrants.

1. I suppose that's a good idea.

2. Wait, you're against technology?

3. Illegal immigrants are taking jobs away from legal citizens.

Trefeqia wrote:And ban the death penalty.

Ok.
Last edited by Prussia-Steinbach on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Blakk Metal
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6737
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Blakk Metal » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:37 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Trefeqia wrote:I will like a separation of church and state.

There already is. First Amendment.

It's rarely followed.
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Trefeqia wrote:Legalize same-sex marriage in every state.

There needs to be a Constitutional amendment for that to happen, which would take two-thirds of the States to agree on.

There is. It was ratified in the 1860's.
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Trefeqia wrote:Create new jobs.

It's not that simple. If you could just "create jobs," almost no one would be unemployed - except those that are content with living on welfare.

Didn't you hear? You can solve anything by throwing money at it!
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Trefeqia wrote:Stop creating machines to replace people, since I believe technology is the real threat to losing jobs, instead of immigrants.

3. Illegal immigrants are taking jobs away from legal citizens.

That's been known to be false for quite a while.
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Trefeqia wrote:And ban the death penalty.

Ok.

How wimpy. Are you pro-crime!?!

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Prussia-Steinbach
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22386
Founded: Mar 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:51 pm

Blakk Metal wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:There already is. First Amendment.

It's rarely followed.

I suppose you're right. Congress has made a few laws regarding establishments of religion, hasn't it? (no sarcasm intended)
Blakk Metal wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
There needs to be a Constitutional amendment for that to happen, which would take two-thirds of the States to agree on.

There is. It was ratified in the 1860's.

Please explain.
Blakk Metal wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:It's not that simple. If you could just "create jobs," almost no one would be unemployed - except those that are content with living on welfare.

Didn't you hear? You can solve anything by throwing money at it!

Those darn fiscal conservatives are impeding progress, they are.
Blakk Metal wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:3. Illegal immigrants are taking jobs away from legal citizens.

That's been known to be false for quite a while.

If you will provide a reliable source or two, I will concede to being wrong.
Blakk Metal wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Ok.

How wimpy. Are you pro-crime!?!

Hehe. I like your brand of sarcasm.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Blakk Metal
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6737
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Blakk Metal » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:06 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Blakk Metal wrote:There is. It was ratified in the 1860's.

Please explain.

Die vierzehnte Änderung
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Blakk Metal wrote:Didn't you hear? You can solve anything by throwing money at it!

Those darn fiscal conservatives are impeding progress, they are.

Yeah! They even have the audacity to call the government corrupt! Moskals!
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Blakk Metal wrote:That's been known to be false for quite a while.

If you will provide a reliable source or two, I will concede to being wrong.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/201 ... onomy.html
http://papers.nber.org/papers/w16439
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Blakk Metal wrote:How wimpy. Are you pro-crime!?!

Hehe. I like your brand of sarcasm.

High quality, ain't it? ;)

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Divair
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63434
Founded: May 06, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Divair » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:49 am

Nabat wrote:My cure for America? Merge with Canada and remove the right to vote for the American citizenry. Let a people who know how to run a country without crazies for a change; it's a lot more comfortable.

If you find this post offensive or ignorant, consider the major players in your political game. Every single one of them is a right wing clown who dumbs every statement down to the point of meaning nothing (Protip: if your leader promises to create jobs or lower the price of oil, he's probably full of crap)

Letting Canada annex the USA might be the best idea ever.

No joke.

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Socialdemokraterne
Minister
 
Posts: 3448
Founded: Dec 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialdemokraterne » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:50 am

Nabat wrote:If you find this post offensive or ignorant, consider the major players in your political game. Every single one of them is a right wing clown who dumbs every statement down to the point of meaning nothing (Protip: if your leader promises to create jobs or lower the price of oil, he's probably full of crap)


Thanks for the tip. I'll give you one in kind: it's the electoral system, not the people's stupidity, that ensures that the USA has a choice between Democrats and Republicans. From Wikipedia:

First-past-the-post tends to reduce the number of viable political parties to a greater extent than most other methods, thus making it more likely that a single party will hold a majority of legislative seats. (In the United Kingdom, 18 out of 23 general elections since 1922 have produced a single party majority government.)

FPTP's tendency toward fewer parties and more frequent one-party rule can potentially produce a government that may not consider as wide a range of perspectives and concerns. It is entirely possible that a voter will find that all major parties agree on a particular issue. In this case, the voter will not have any meaningful way of expressing a dissenting opinion through his or her vote.

As fewer choices are offered to the voters, voters may vote for a candidate with whom they largely disagree so as to oppose a candidate with whom they disagree even more (See tactical voting above). The downside of this is that candidates will less closely reflect the viewpoints of those who vote for them.

It may also be argued that one-party rule is more likely to lead to radical changes in government policy that are only favoured by a plurality or bare majority of the voters, whereas multi-party systems usually require greater consensus in order to make dramatic changes.


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Past_the_Post

Also, there's this crock of shit system in place (emphasis is mine), rendering presidential elections pathetically unrepresentative:

Presidential electors are selected on a state-by-state basis, as determined by the laws of each state. Generally (with Maine and Nebraska being the exceptions), each state appoints its electors on a winner-take-all basis, based on the statewide popular vote on Election Day. Although ballots list the names of the presidential candidates, voters within the 50 states and Washington, D.C. actually choose electors for their state when they vote for President and Vice President. These presidential electors in turn cast electoral votes for those two offices. Even though the aggregate national popular vote is calculated by state officials and media organizations, the national popular vote is not the basis for electing a President or Vice President.

A candidate must receive an absolute majority of electoral votes (currently 270) to win the Presidency. If no candidate receives a majority in the election for President, or Vice President, that election is determined via a contingency procedure in the Twelfth Amendment...


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_ ... _States%29

So how do we fix the USA? Certainly not by taking voting rights away from its citizens, no. Instead, create a more representative system so that US voters can actually show people how smart they really are. We must reject the electoral system and modify it to be representative, sparsely populated states be damned. As for the rightward lean? Well, there are a few reasons for that:

(a) The Red Scares have created a rhetorical environment in which left-wing politics are difficult positions to occupy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare
(b) Tactical voting in favor of candidates which, while not preferred, appear more viable. This is a both product of the electoral system in place and media distortions.
(c) Very, very effective use of media and near-obsessive concentration of interest by these guys makes them seem bigger than they are, securing referendum votes on their issues and enabling them to guide disinterested voters their way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right

More useful reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_Voter_Theorem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Past ... cal_voting
Last edited by Socialdemokraterne on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:19 am, edited 4 times in total.
A social democracy following a variant of the Nordic model of the European welfare state composed of a union of Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Greenland, Denmark, Sleswig-Holstein, and a bit of Estonia.

Leder du måske efter en dansk region? Dansk!

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Ozerostan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 177
Founded: Feb 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Ozerostan » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:46 pm

Because I don't have anything better to do in 0:30, I'll make new plan XD
So, this is much more softened, assuming that I'm just US president and I'm not trying to build something like Yugoslavia, but seeking for re-election. I'm sorry if I write something what US allready have, or something, I'm from Europe ^^

1) Progresive taxtation.
2) Universal health care based on solidarity and compulsory health insurance (you will pay part of your earnings, for example 5%, to federal owned insurance company /or to private company where you can have different terms/ and if you need it /you need new heart, but not new silicon breasts/, you will be treated in any hospital or by every doctor in US without payments /expcet private company, you can have different terms here/).
3) Compulsory social insurance (same system as in health, you put money in, and state give them to those who need them in form of pensions, social payments etc.).
4) Establish National Bank of America and ad it to Constitution.
5) Held referendum on statehood of D.C., Guam, Portorico, US Virgin Isles and other US territories.
6) Campaign finance reform, hold referenda on questions: "Would you prefere First-past-the-post, Proportional, or Mixed voting into House of Representatives?" and "Should US abollish Electoral college?" (of course with campaign explaining what it is)
7) Put more money to schools, discourage people from sending children to private schools, make new schools plans and norms, which get US childrens to level of those in Eastern Europe, or hopefully in Asia.
8 ) Nationalize all universities and provide free education.
9) Nationalize all resources in US.
10) Pull out all US soldiers from foreign coutries (except those who ask for them and are ready to pay for their presence).
11) End all afirmative action programes.
12) Define that marriage is between man and women, istitute civil union which is between two people (and let state legislatures to decide what is two peoples) and which will have less rights than marriage (so no adoptions for homosexuals, but you can visit your partner in hospital).
13) Put more funds into emergency services like police or firefighters.
14) Work with UN to make world a better place, try to have good relations with other coutries.
15) Close Guantanamo and return it to Cuba.
16) End embargo on Cuba and all economic ebargos (not on weapons, or radioactive materials etc.) on other states.
17) Protect US economy (what US can produce, US will produce, no outsorcing).
18) Grant amnesty to illegal imigrants who are allready in US, but strenght anti-imigration laws.
19) Expand welfare programs.
20) Large public works program to reduce unemployment.
21) Institute ID cards, they are usefull.
---
As I see, it's not such different from my old plan, but still looks better XD And it took me some time to write it, so I don't want to delete it...
What you think? Did you like it, or not? Can I, as US president, pass it through Congress and get re-elected?
Last edited by Ozerostan on Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm sorry for my horrible english grammar, I'm still learning. From this reason I use sometime translator, or just write something nonsense.

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Saluterre
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 485
Founded: Jun 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Saluterre » Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:10 pm

Ozerostan wrote:Because I don't have anything better to do in 0:30, I'll make new plan XD
So, this is much more softened, assuming that I'm just US president and I'm not trying to build something like Yugoslavia, but seeking for re-election. I'm sorry if I write something what US allready have, or something, I'm from Europe ^^

1) Progresive taxtation.-Yes.
2) Universal health care based on solidarity and compulsory health insurance (you will pay part of your earnings, for example 5%, to federal owned insurance company /or to private company where you can have different terms/ and if you need it /you need new heart, but not new silicon breasts/, you will be treated in any hospital or by every doctor in US without payments /expcet private company, you can have different terms here/).Eh. I'd prefer a national health service, myself.
3) Compulsory social insurance (same system as in health, you put money in, and state give them to those who need them in form of pensions, social payments etc.).Yes.
4) Establish National Bank of America and ad it to Constitution.I like the idea of a national bank, but how would you implement it? Would it be a nationalization of the banking industry, or just an alternative?
5) Held referendum on statehood of D.C., Guam, Portorico, US Virgin Isles and other US territories.Yes. I think they should be separate countries, but it should be up to them.
6) Campaign finance reform, hold referenda on questions: "Would you prefere First-past-the-post, Proportional, or Mixed voting into House of Representatives?" and "Should US abollish Electoral college?" (of course with campaign explaining what it is)Yes.
7) Put more money to schools, discourage people from sending children to private schools, make new schools plans and norms, which get US childrens to level of those in Eastern Europe, or hopefully in Asia.Yes.
8 ) Nationalize all universities and provide free education.Yes.
9) Nationalize all resources in US.A little vague. Nationalize all business?
10) Pull out all US soldiers from foreign coutries (except those who ask for them and are ready to pay for their presence).Agree in principle, but I'd have to do some more research whether to agree on moving ALL troops out of foreign countries.
11) End all afirmative action programes.On the fence about this one.
12) Define that marriage is between man and women, istitute civil union which is between two people (and let state legislatures to decide what is two peoples) and which will have less rights than marriage (so no adoptions for homosexuals, but you can visit your partner in hospital).Why? Why does marriage have to be between a man and a woman? Why would we make 10% of the population second-class citizens?
13) Put more funds into emergency services like police or firefighters.Yes
14) Work with UN to make world a better place, try to have good relations with other coutries.Not really policy, more of a hopeful ideal.
15) Close Guantanamo and return it to Cuba.Agreed, but what would you do with the prisoners? At least a few are guilty.
16) End embargo on Cuba and all economic ebargos (not on weapons, or radioactive materials etc.) on other states.I agree with ending Cuban embargo; I'd say some embargoes are reasonable. Not all are like the blind embargo wrongfully placed on the democratic Nicaraguan government.
17) Protect US economy (what US can produce, US will produce, no outsorcing).Protectionism only helps a select few. Eduard Bernstein had some great writings on free trade and social democracy.
18) Grant amnesty to illegal imigrants who are allready in US, but strenght anti-imigration laws.I support amnesty; anti-immigration laws seem to be time wasters. There are more important things at the moment.
19) Expand welfare programs.Yes
20) Large public works program to reduce unemployment.Yes
21) Institute ID cards, they are usefull.Where? To government employees?
---
As I see, it's not such different from my old plan, but still looks better XD And it took me some time to write it, so I don't want to delete it...
What you think? Did you like it, or not? Can I, as US president, pass it through Congress and get re-elected?
Meh. Some good economic ideas, but the social conservatism and lack of specificity turns me off.
United States: Bernie Sanders, Stewart Alexander, SPUSA, CPUSA
France: Jean-Luc Mélenchon, François Hollande.
Germany: Die Linke
United States:Republican Party, Constitution Party
France: UMP, National Front
Germany: CDU, SPD (right-wing)
Formerly TerraPublica
Proud Socialist

I consider myself a classical Social Democrat, who believes socialism can only be ethically implemented through democratic struggle. I believe in worker co-operatives instead of large corporations, mixed economies, and government support of small businesses. I'm also a social liberal.
The Nuclear Fist wrote:Yoko Ono caused the decline of the Roman Empire.

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Ozerostan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 177
Founded: Feb 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Ozerostan » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:51 pm

2) This is how it works in my country, so I just use the same scheme.
4) It will (or would? I'm not sure) have two branches, the first will provide normal banking services as a federal-controled company, and the second will replace FED as central bank (and that is the reason why it should be in constitution). It can be also divided into two banks, when the central bank is constitutional and the other not. The idea was, that it will be directly controled by Department of Treasury with governor named by President.
9) I thought that US nationalize mines, oil fields and those national resources. I write it really unclear.
10) Populist gesture, and you can put some money from army to other things. There are some alternatives on this issue, like agreements with local governments on imediate deployment, prepared bases without personel, or something of this kind.
11) Positive discrimination is still discrimination. Better is teach childrens about tolerance, than put quotas or give some people privileges only because of color.
12) I'm not sure, in fact... Maybe I'm just conservative and little scared about well-being of children and reactions of society. I don't know why, my very good friend is lesbian and want to have kids one day, and I'm yaoi fanboy, but adoptions and marriage is something, what I can't accept. I will think about it ^^
Anyway, marriage is long christian tradition, and civil union is good alternative for all sides.
14) You are right, but I like this idea.
15) They can be jailed in any other prison, maybe with special conditions, inside US.
16) But when you cripled economy, the nation suffer, and when they suffer, they start hate US, not the domestic government, because it's not their fault, but US agression.
17) But free trade can destroy domestic economy and rise unemployment.
18) Still, there is good political capital in it. And, if imigrants can't find job, they easily turn to crime. They also have problems with asimilation etc.
21) For every US citizen. They don't have ID cards, right? Oh, on wikipedia is written that you can have one, if you don't have driving licence. Nevermind. Idea is still the same - every US citizen older than 15 years will have ID card, where he will have basic information like name, date of birth and place where he live.
I'm sorry for my horrible english grammar, I'm still learning. From this reason I use sometime translator, or just write something nonsense.

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159048
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:55 pm

I don't remember what I said before, but I've decided that my plan for America is ponies.

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