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Is abortion right? (What's your view on abortion?)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is your view on abortion? (Select all that are applicable)

Pro-life, even if woman's life is in danger.
38
5%
Pro-life, even if the woman's health (including mental health) is in danger.
41
5%
Pro-life, even if the woman has been raped.
54
7%
Pro-life, even if the fetus has physical/mental defects.
68
8%
Pro-life, even if the woman cannot afford the baby.
88
11%
Pro-life, even if the woman is a teen.
92
11%
Pro-choice up to the 12th week.
87
11%
Pro-choice up to the 24th week.
107
13%
Pro-choice all the way through.
198
24%
Other (please specify)
50
6%
 
Total votes : 823

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New Rogernomics
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Postby New Rogernomics » Sat May 05, 2012 9:07 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:Why? You didn't know that women had this right?

I know they have that "right," and I find it horrible.
Fantastic, now I just need to destroy marriage. Now if I can just get the law changed so I can marry a pot plant...yes...my plan is coming together. :twisted: /End sarcasm.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat May 05, 2012 9:08 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Galloism wrote:So... you are actually for forced medical procedures and operations in order to save someone else?

Wow... never really thought I'd encounter that.

You would condone someone dying because another person didn't feel like being charitable?


If the fetus were a someone, I would agree. But it isn't.

As I said already in another post: abortion is neither right nor wrong (labeling is rather stupid). It just is. It's a medical procedure, like any other.
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Desperate Measures
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Postby Desperate Measures » Sat May 05, 2012 9:08 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Galloism wrote:So... you are actually for forced medical procedures and operations in order to save someone else?

Wow... never really thought I'd encounter that.

You would condone someone dying because another person didn't feel like being charitable?

You did. Eighteen times today.
http://www.kidney.org/transplantation/beadonor.cfm
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sat May 05, 2012 9:08 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Galloism wrote:So... you are actually for forced medical procedures and operations in order to save someone else?

Wow... never really thought I'd encounter that.

You would condone someone dying because another person didn't feel like being charitable?

Well, we just usually take our bodily integrity quite seriously... that we should not be forced at gunpoint to have things placed in our bodies (or taken out).

I mean, I guess your position in this case is consistent, but damn if it isn't authoritarian as hell.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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Vousielle
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Postby Vousielle » Sat May 05, 2012 9:09 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Galloism wrote:So... you are actually for forced medical procedures and operations in order to save someone else?

Wow... never really thought I'd encounter that.

You would condone someone dying because another person didn't feel like being charitable?

Condoning doesn't really come into it, that is just the world we live in unfortunately.
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Simon Cowell of the RR
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Postby Simon Cowell of the RR » Sat May 05, 2012 9:09 pm

Jefferson and Paul wrote:It also sickens be how a majority of people are 'pro-life all the way through', that includes up to hours before the baby is born or even partial or full birth abortion. If killing a fully developed infant isn't murder then I'm not sure what is.

Killing a human being.

Why?
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Jefferson and Paul
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Postby Jefferson and Paul » Sat May 05, 2012 9:11 pm

Wiztopia wrote:
Jefferson and Paul wrote:It also sickens be how a majority of people are 'pro-life all the way through', that includes up to hours before the baby is born or even partial or full birth abortion. If killing a fully developed infant isn't murder then I'm not sure what is.


Her body, her choice. Also it isn't an infant until it is born. So until it is born it is still a fetus.


I am clearly referring to partial/full-birth abortion in which case a baby up to 9 months (when it is a fully developed person and scheduled to be born) is retrieved by pliers while the mother is in labor and its neck is snipped with a pair of scissors. And a majority of people are for that. At this point the baby is fully developed it can cry, feel emotion, breath air and feel pain and emotion. Sickening.
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Prussia-Steinbach
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sat May 05, 2012 9:11 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:You would condone someone dying because another person didn't feel like being charitable?

You did. Eighteen times today.
http://www.kidney.org/transplantation/beadonor.cfm

First - I do not have eighteen kidneys. It is quite interesting, and quite possibly a physical anomaly, if you do.

Second - No one asked me for a kidney, so no, I did not.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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A High Dark Place
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Postby A High Dark Place » Sat May 05, 2012 9:11 pm

Jefferson and Paul wrote:This poll is so disgustingly geared towards making pro-lifers look bad. How about an option "Pro-Life except in cases of rape, incest, miscarriage or when potentially life threatening".


Can't have more than ten options. Note that you can vote for more than one option.

"Miscarriage" is spontaneous abortion (not counting the earliest stages, where "spontaneous abortion" is more correct). There isn't anything anyone could do to ban it.

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Desperate Measures
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Postby Desperate Measures » Sat May 05, 2012 9:12 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:You did. Eighteen times today.
http://www.kidney.org/transplantation/beadonor.cfm

First - I do not have eighteen kidneys. It is quite interesting, and quite possibly a physical anomaly, if you do.

Second - No one asked me for a kidney, so no, I did not.

You had eighteen chances. One of them could have been saved. Why would they have to ask?
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Sat May 05, 2012 9:13 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Galloism wrote:I ask again.

I need a kidney.

Should you be required to give me one of yours at the point of a gun?

If no one else will give you one, at all, and you are about to die, yes, I suppose so. Though I doubt it would come to that.

Thousands of people die daily because they can't get transplants.
Yes, it would come to that.
Luckily we all have a right to our own bodies. I cannot take a kidney from you without you donating it, and a woman cannot be forced to give birth.
The Andromeda Islands wrote:This! Is! A! Bad! Idea!
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



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Prussia-Steinbach
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sat May 05, 2012 9:13 pm

Galloism wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:You would condone someone dying because another person didn't feel like being charitable?

Well, we just usually take our bodily integrity quite seriously... that we should not be forced at gunpoint to have things placed in our bodies (or taken out).

I mean, I guess your position in this case is consistent, but damn if it isn't authoritarian as hell.

I have never claimed to be libertarian.

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 5.33

That probably qualifies as "authoritarian as hell."
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Prussia-Steinbach
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sat May 05, 2012 9:14 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:First - I do not have eighteen kidneys. It is quite interesting, and quite possibly a physical anomaly, if you do.

Second - No one asked me for a kidney, so no, I did not.

You had eighteen chances. One of them could have been saved. Why would they have to ask?

Me. I would have given them one. However, I was not asked.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sat May 05, 2012 9:15 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:You had eighteen chances. One of them could have been saved. Why would they have to ask?

Me. I would have given them one. However, I was not asked.

Why do you have to be asked?

You let someone die. While we're discussing this, in all likelihood, someone else will die.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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Desperate Measures
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Postby Desperate Measures » Sat May 05, 2012 9:16 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:You had eighteen chances. One of them could have been saved. Why would they have to ask?

Me. I would have given them one. However, I was not asked.

Why would they have to ask? I directed you to the living donor page. You can give one anonymously and they will put it to the best recipient.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Sat May 05, 2012 9:16 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:You had eighteen chances. One of them could have been saved. Why would they have to ask?

Me. I would have given them one. However, I was not asked.

Why didn't you go to the local hospital and say, "hey, I have a kidney I could donate, sign me up for whoever needs one!"
The Andromeda Islands wrote:This! Is! A! Bad! Idea!
Furious Grandmothers wrote:Why are you talking about murder when we are talking about abortion? Murdering a fetus is impossible. It's like smelling an echo. You're not making sense.



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Prussia-Steinbach
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sat May 05, 2012 9:17 pm

Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:If no one else will give you one, at all, and you are about to die, yes, I suppose so. Though I doubt it would come to that.

Thousands of people die daily because they can't get transplants.
Yes, it would come to that.
Luckily we all have a right to our own bodies. to deny another person life. I cannot take a kidney from you without you donating it, and a woman cannot be forced to give birth. is allowed to kill her child.

Fixed.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Prussia-Steinbach
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sat May 05, 2012 9:18 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Me. I would have given them one. However, I was not asked.

Why would they have to ask? I directed you to the living donor page. You can give one anonymously and they will put it to the best recipient.

Well, I will one day then.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Desperate Measures
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Postby Desperate Measures » Sat May 05, 2012 9:18 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:Thousands of people die daily because they can't get transplants.
Yes, it would come to that.
Luckily we all have a right to our own bodies. to deny another person life. I cannot take a kidney from you without you donating it, and a woman cannot be forced to give birth. is allowed to kill her child.

Fixed.

Funny how nothing changed.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Vousielle
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Postby Vousielle » Sat May 05, 2012 9:18 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:Thousands of people die daily because they can't get transplants.
Yes, it would come to that.
Luckily we all have a right to our own bodies. to deny another person life. I cannot take a kidney from you without you donating it, and a woman cannot be forced to give birth. is allowed to kill her child.

Fixed.Distorted

Fixed.
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Prussia-Steinbach
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sat May 05, 2012 9:19 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Fixed.

Funny how nothing changed.

I simply clarified.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat May 05, 2012 9:19 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Fixed.

Funny how nothing changed.


Appeals to emotion don't work well on NSG. :D
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Desperate Measures
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Postby Desperate Measures » Sat May 05, 2012 9:19 pm

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:Why would they have to ask? I directed you to the living donor page. You can give one anonymously and they will put it to the best recipient.

Well, I will one day then.

More of that type of thing from people claiming to be pro-life and I'll actually start to believe that's what you are. Cool.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

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Prussia-Steinbach
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Posts: 22386
Founded: Mar 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sat May 05, 2012 9:20 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:Well, I will one day then.

More of that type of thing from people claiming to be pro-life and I'll actually start to believe that's what you are. Cool.

Well, I'm glad you at least believe I am.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


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Rick Rollin
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Postby Rick Rollin » Sat May 05, 2012 9:20 pm

Jefferson and Paul wrote:This poll is so disgustingly geared towards making pro-lifers look bad. How about an option "Pro-Life except in cases of rape, incest, miscarriage or when potentially life threatening".

There aren't unlimited options y'know.
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