Is abortion right? (What's your view on abortion?)

[The Cummunist State]

I'm not sure why everyone is saying that fetuses aren't alive. Of course they are. They're biologically expanding and in a lose sense of the word, evolving. They may be parasitic, they may only be able to live at others' expense, but they are alive. It's when/if that life is more important than the mother is the issue. And I say, never.

[Rick Rollin]

The Mighty Hand of Frisbeeteria
★★★ Senior Game Moderator ★★★
(Image)
Wielder of the Bolt of Justice

The following players have received *** Official Warnings for quoting inappropriate links ***. All of you clicked the link and commented on the contents, so it's apparent that you knew what you were quoting.
Norstal, Hallistar, Alowwvia, Straight From Above, Unchecked Expansion, Vousielle

The following players quoted the link stating that you would not click it. No warning, but c'mon, folks - it was obvious from thread context that the materials were inappropriate. Don't {quote] links.
Sailsia, The Cummunist State, Mavorpen, Katganistan

I'll also point out that holding a strong opinion, as Milennias did, does not equal trolling. This is a divisive issue with strong opinions on each side, and I'll expect you to respect that in future.

While Milennias was *** deleted as punishment *** for posting the link, that player is welcome to create another nation and continue the discussion. Anyone who steps out of line on either side of the debate will be dealt with according to site rules.

Isn't Katganistan also a Senior Game Moderator?

I sense the mod administration is about to have a shakeup. My commie party politics sense is tingling.

Isn't Katganistan also a Senior Game Moderator?

Yeah. They're just fair.

I suspect forum politics.

[Auralia]

I'm not sure why everyone is saying that fetuses aren't alive. Of course they are. They're biologically expanding and in a lose sense of the word, evolving. They may be parasitic, they may only be able to live at others' expense, but they are alive. It's when/if that life is more important than the mother is the issue. And I say, never.

I believe that a fetus is a human being. I also believe that all human beings have inherent immeasurable value, and therefore have an inalienable right to life. Thus, I believe that the right to life of a fetus is more important than the right to bodily sovereignty of the mother. Therefore, I believe abortion is wrong in all cases except when the right to life of the mother is threatened.

[Galloism]

I'm not sure why everyone is saying that fetuses aren't alive. Of course they are. They're biologically expanding and in a lose sense of the word, evolving. They may be parasitic, they may only be able to live at others' expense, but they are alive. It's when/if that life is more important than the mother is the issue. And I say, never.

I believe that a fetus is a human being. I also believe that all human beings have inherent immeasurable value, and therefore have an inalienable right to life. Thus, I believe that the right to life of a fetus is more important than the right to bodily sovereignty of the mother. Therefore, I believe abortion is wrong in all cases except when the right to life of the mother is threatened.

I need a kidney.

You're a match.

Is my right to life more important than your right to bodily sovereignty?

[The Cummunist State]

I'm not sure why everyone is saying that fetuses aren't alive. Of course they are. They're biologically expanding and in a lose sense of the word, evolving. They may be parasitic, they may only be able to live at others' expense, but they are alive. It's when/if that life is more important than the mother is the issue. And I say, never.

I believe that a fetus is a human being. I also believe that all human beings have inherent immeasurable value, and therefore have an inalienable right to life. Thus, I believe that the right to life of a fetus is more important than the right to bodily sovereignty of the mother. Therefore, I believe abortion is wrong in all cases except when the right to life of the mother is threatened.

Okay. First, proof of fetus being a person. Second, you can't force your morals on other people. If you don't like abortions DON'T HAVE ONE

[Ifreann]

Of course it is. Women are the ones who are pregnant, who else is it going to be about?

Erm, the supposed 'baby'?

Well it's not pregnant.

[Auralia]

I believe that a fetus is a human being. I also believe that all human beings have inherent immeasurable value, and therefore have an inalienable right to life. Thus, I believe that the right to life of a fetus is more important than the right to bodily sovereignty of the mother. Therefore, I believe abortion is wrong in all cases except when the right to life of the mother is threatened.

Okay. First, proof of fetus being a person. Second, you can't force your morals on other people. If you don't like abortions DON'T HAVE ONE

1. I define "person" as a living member of the species homo sapiens. How do you define it?
2. Yes, I can. I believe that depriving an innocent human being of their life is morally wrong, and should therefore be illegal. I'm sure you do too.

[Rick Rollin]

I believe that a fetus is a human being. I also believe that all human beings have inherent immeasurable value, and therefore have an inalienable right to life. Thus, I believe that the right to life of a fetus is more important than the right to bodily sovereignty of the mother. Therefore, I believe abortion is wrong in all cases except when the right to life of the mother is threatened.

Okay. First, proof of fetus being a person. Second, you can't force your morals on other people. If you don't like abortions DON'T HAVE ONE

Once he's got it, the second 'tip' is irrelevant.

I believe that a fetus is a human being. I also believe that all human beings have inherent immeasurable value, and therefore have an inalienable right to life. Thus, I believe that the right to life of a fetus is more important than the right to bodily sovereignty of the mother. Therefore, I believe abortion is wrong in all cases except when the right to life of the mother is threatened.

I need a kidney.

You're a match.

Is my right to life more important than your right to bodily sovereignty?

'Freedom' from 'murder' is a negative 'right'.
'Freedom' of 'free organs' is a positive 'right'.

Get the difference?

Erm, the supposed 'baby'?

Well it's not pregnant.

Having sex doesn't make you more important.

Okay. First, proof of fetus being a person. Second, you can't force your morals on other people. If you don't like abortions DON'T HAVE ONE

1. I define "person" as a living member of the species homo sapiens. How do you define it?
2. Yes, I can. I believe that depriving an innocent human being of their life is morally wrong, and should therefore be illegal. I'm sure you do too.

Now answer this: What makes humans different?

[The Cummunist State]

Okay. First, proof of fetus being a person. Second, you can't force your morals on other people. If you don't like abortions DON'T HAVE ONE

1. I define "person" as a living member of the species homo sapiens. How do you define it?
2. Yes, I can. I believe that depriving an innocent human being of their life is morally wrong, and should therefore be illegal. I'm sure you do too.

Morality is subjective. And no, in my morality, forcing someone to have a parasite inside of them is wrong.

[Galloism]

I need a kidney.

You're a match.

Is my right to life more important than your right to bodily sovereignty?

'Freedom' from 'murder' is a negative 'right'.
'Freedom' of 'free organs' is a positive 'right'.

Get the difference?

Yes, but I'm not sure you do.

In order to support a fetus, the mother must take continuous positive action to support it, sharing her bodily nutrients and organs with the fetus until such time as it can survive on its own.

That is a "positive right".

When an abortion occurs, the fetus is removed from the continuous support of its mother. Unfortunately, due to the mother no longer taking these positive actions, the fetus dies.

It's really no different than pulling the plug on a braindead person in a hospital and allowing them to die.

[Auralia]

'Freedom' from 'murder' is a negative 'right'.
'Freedom' of 'free organs' is a positive 'right'.

Yes.

Now answer this: What makes humans different?

That's an excellent question. Why should humans have rights? Out of self-preservation? Out of perceived value to society? Or because they simply have an innate, immeasurable value? I prefer the latter option, since the other two are too utilitarian for my taste. They essentially allow you to remove or ignore human rights at any time, depending on the situation.

[Ifreann]

Well it's not pregnant.

Having sex doesn't make you more important.

When it comes to having an abortion, being pregnant does. You kinda can't have one unless you are.

[Galloism]

Having sex doesn't make you more important.

When it comes to having an abortion, being pregnant does. You kinda can't have one unless you are.

I heard it was all the rage to get one, so I tried.

They just laughed at me.

[Rick Rollin]

'Freedom' from 'murder' is a negative 'right'.
'Freedom' of 'free organs' is a positive 'right'.

Get the difference?

Yes, but I'm not sure you do.

In order to support a fetus, the mother must take continuous positive action to support it, sharing her bodily nutrients and organs with the fetus until such time as it can survive on its own.

That is a "positive right".

When an abortion occurs, the fetus is removed from the continuous support of its mother. Unfortunately, due to the mother no longer taking these positive actions, the fetus dies.

It's really no different than pulling the plug on a braindead person in a hospital and allowing them to die.

The quotes were there for a reason.

'Freedom' from 'murder' is a negative 'right'.
'Freedom' of 'free organs' is a positive 'right'.

Yes.

Now answer this: What makes humans different?

That's an excellent question. Why should humans have rights? Out of self-preservation? Out of perceived value to society? Or because they simply have an innate, immeasurable value? I prefer the latter option, since the other two are too utilitarian for my taste. They essentially allow you to remove or ignore human rights at any time, depending on the situation.

But why do they have said value? Calling said value immeasurable is ad hoc and can easily be excluded from those who are different.

Having sex doesn't make you more important.

When it comes to having an abortion, being pregnant does. You kinda can't have one unless you are.

Does it suddenly give you more rights? Does it make better than everyone else?

[Galloism]

Yes, but I'm not sure you do.

In order to support a fetus, the mother must take continuous positive action to support it, sharing her bodily nutrients and organs with the fetus until such time as it can survive on its own.

That is a "positive right".

When an abortion occurs, the fetus is removed from the continuous support of its mother. Unfortunately, due to the mother no longer taking these positive actions, the fetus dies.

It's really no different than pulling the plug on a braindead person in a hospital and allowing them to die.

The quotes were there for a reason.

Ok?

I'm merely pointing out that the kidney scenario is an apt correlation to pregnancy. They are both "positive rights", if granted.

However, we see fit to let people's right to bodily autonomy trump another person's right to life. You cannot be forced to use your body to support someone else's.

[Wiztopia]

For the record, I have been reading the posts after mine. They're...interesting. I've been...re-examining my priorities and drawing new conclusions.

Insulting me as a person rather than my arguments are still not OK.

Citation needed for the bolded.

[The Cummunist State]

For the record, I have been reading the posts after mine. They're...interesting. I've been...re-examining my priorities and drawing new conclusions.

Insulting me as a person rather than my arguments are still not OK.

Citation needed for the bolded.

Ad hominems make you look like a thundercunt who can't think of a argument other than "ur dum"?

[Rick Rollin]

Citation needed for the bolded.

Ad hominems make you look like a thundercunt who can't think of a argument other than "ur dum"?

He wants proof that there was flaming going on.

[The Cummunist State]

Ad hominems make you look like a thundercunt who can't think of a argument other than "ur dum"?

He wants proof that there was flaming going on.

It seems quite like he was asking for proof that attacking him instead of his arguments is bad. If not, sorry.

[DaWoad]

Okay. First, proof of fetus being a person. Second, you can't force your morals on other people. If you don't like abortions DON'T HAVE ONE

1. I define "person" as a living member of the species homo sapiens. How do you define it?
2. Yes, I can. I believe that depriving an innocent human being of their life is morally wrong, and should therefore be illegal. I'm sure you do too.

1. the only way that doesn't allow corpses and the braindead to be kept on life support indefinitely. Ie, a member of a sapient species that has coherent brain function.
2. I'm not sure that's true. Do you, for example, believe that soldiers should be considered criminals?

[Ifreann]

When it comes to having an abortion, being pregnant does. You kinda can't have one unless you are.

Does it suddenly give you more rights? Does it make better than everyone else?

Of course not.

[Albicia]

Did over 100 people approve of abortion throughout the pregnancy. That is truly evil.

[The Cummunist State]

Did over 100 people approve of abortion throughout the pregnancy. That is truly evil.

Why?

[Rick Rollin]

Does it suddenly give you more rights? Does it make better than everyone else?

Of course not.

You previously implied that the mother is more important because she got pregnant.

Did over 100 people approve of abortion throughout the pregnancy. That is truly evil.

Why?

Because going thru a pussy doesn't pop a brain into ones head.

[The Cummunist State]

Why?

Because going thru a pussy doesn't pop a brain into ones head.

I didn't say it did? I believe it's correct all the way until shortly before birth because it is the woman's body, and I kinda think people should be able to rid their bodies of other living things, especially parasites