NationStates

Damanucus wrote:

Unitaristic Regions wrote:Men don't like to talk about it as it'd sound ridiculous, or so they'd think. The rape of men is basically something never mentioned, as society still seems to think men have a monopoly on being dominant.

And that's even despite the statistics. I'm not sure of what they are exactly, but they are still pretty high, even though they are lower than the rape of females. And even though most male rape is male-on-male, I think female-on-male is slowly coming up too.

Yeah, I don't have the numbers on me, so please, if you do, and they're incompatible with my statements here, please do say so.

female to male rape seems interesting to note okay

Jamjai wrote:

Damanucus wrote:
And that's even despite the statistics. I'm not sure of what they are exactly, but they are still pretty high, even though they are lower than the rape of females. And even though most male rape is male-on-male, I think female-on-male is slowly coming up too.

Yeah, I don't have the numbers on me, so please, if you do, and they're incompatible with my statements here, please do say so.

female to male rape seems interesting to note okay

Female to male, male to male and female to female rape also happens, its just not on a large scale as the male to female rape.
I wished society could stop being such a !@#$tard and actually stop a lot of these problems which we could stop if all of us just thought "What i'm doing is wrong, I'm not doing this"

UED wrote:I'm very shocked that the rate is at 20% for amount of women raped in the USA. The USA isn't the most civilized nation but its still pretty high compared to other nations. What is the best way to prevent rapes?
I'm siding with better education for both guys and gals as well as gals taking marital arts to beat the !@#$ out of guys.

And just being more assertive, even if you aren't a kung fu master. You shouldn't have to be assertive if that's not your personality, but in practice it does sometimes help.

UED wrote:

Jamjai wrote:female to male rape seems interesting to note okay

Female to male, male to male and female to female rape also happens, its just not on a large scale as the male to female rape.
I wished society could stop being such a !@#$tard and actually stop a lot of these problems which we could stop if all of us just thought "What i'm doing is wrong, I'm not doing this"

yea, those individuals have social problems they have to fix

Nazi Flower Power wrote:

UED wrote:I'm very shocked that the rate is at 20% for amount of women raped in the USA. The USA isn't the most civilized nation but its still pretty high compared to other nations. What is the best way to prevent rapes?
I'm siding with better education for both guys and gals as well as gals taking marital arts to beat the !@#$ out of guys.

And just being more assertive, even if you aren't a kung fu master. You shouldn't have to be assertive if that's not your personality, but in practice it does sometimes help.

Yep, that would be key, if you refuse to bow down and struggle then that can have a better chance of succeeding in preventing rape than anything else. I do know martial arts can help make one's personality strong, my brother was once timid but now he's stronger In personality.

Greater Skyrim wrote:I believe that pre teens and teens being exposed to a lot of sexual media is the main source. It gives some guys an increased desire for sex. This can lead them to seek sexual interaction. As this lust becomes stronger, wants become ideas, ideas become plans. Not always rape, obviously. As sexual media dramatically increases, it will undoubtedly lead to more sexual want, both male and female.

As a high-libido sex-positive male from a relatively sexualized culture I'm truly offended.

People don't knowingly cause deep-seated psychological and psychiatric harm and hurt to other human beings destroying much of their self-esteem, feeling of safety and mental stability for the lulz when it's very easy for one to be committed to satisfy their desires by themselves.

It's obviously caused by cultural reasons very removed from both liberal attitudes to sex and "perversion". In fact the most sexually-repressive societies tend to be the ones to also have the highest frequency of rape, especially when attitudes to gender equality are also crap.

Rape is most often either a disease in itself to which the trigger is lack of societal empathy to fragile people, or something used as a weapon for humiliation and fear. And there is evidence for that.

Greater Skyrim wrote:I meant accelerates sexual desires, not a direct cause of rape, to clarify.

Bullshit. If, in the situation I'm not in love with some girl (I'm demisexual in my hetero side, meaning my sexual desire also depend on emotional/romantic factors), and I get no porn and no privacy for 7 days, I go from homo to full bi. Meaning no discharge of libido with decent inspiration = not a very good discharge of libido, and no discharge of libido at all = messes up my head and creates weird environments of sexual tension everywhere. I imagine it might be similar for lots of other people.

UED wrote:

Nazi Flower Power wrote:
And just being more assertive, even if you aren't a kung fu master. You shouldn't have to be assertive if that's not your personality, but in practice it does sometimes help.

Yep, that would be key, if you refuse to bow down and struggle then that can have a better chance of succeeding in preventing rape than anything else. I do know martial arts can help make one's personality strong, my brother was once timid but now he's stronger In personality.

The problem is, most rapes are committed by people the victim knows. It's not teaching someone how to fight back, it's teaching them they need to fight back against a teacher, their father, an aunt, their husband/wife or best friend. Teaching someone martial arts isn't going to solve that problem. You've got to instill a feeling that there are just certain things nobody is allowed to do. Even if they're someone you love and trust.

It's really easy to say, "but I'd fight back." There's no way to know until you're in that situation. Some will, but more people think they'd fight back then actually fight back.

As for stranger rapes, it's overly simplistic. Fighting back might help, it might get you killed. Some rapists like it when a victim fights back. It's a situation where you need to worry about staying alive.

If the solution for reducing rape was simple, we'd have reduced rape significantly already. And honestly, I wish it was as easy as teaching people martial arts. The problem is, it's not. We've got to change society, and that's so much harder.

ThirdPrizeYoureFired wrote:

UED wrote:
Yep, that would be key, if you refuse to bow down and struggle then that can have a better chance of succeeding in preventing rape than anything else. I do know martial arts can help make one's personality strong, my brother was once timid but now he's stronger In personality.

The problem is, most rapes are committed by people the victim knows. It's not teaching someone how to fight back, it's teaching them they need to fight back against a teacher, their father, an aunt, their husband/wife or best friend. Teaching someone martial arts isn't going to solve that problem. You've got to instill a feeling that there are just certain things nobody is allowed to do. Even if they're someone you love and trust.

It's really easy to say, "but I'd fight back." There's no way to know until you're in that situation. Some will, but more people think they'd fight back then actually fight back.

As for stranger rapes, it's overly simplistic. Fighting back might help, it might get you killed. Some rapists like it when a victim fights back. It's a situation where you need to worry about staying alive.

If the solution for reducing rape was simple, we'd have reduced rape significantly already. And honestly, I wish it was as easy as teaching people martial arts. The problem is, it's not. We've got to change society, and that's so much harder.

I actually hoped that society could change by having more reason and compassion. We have made progress but this isn't far enough

ThirdPrizeYoureFired wrote:

UED wrote:
Yep, that would be key, if you refuse to bow down and struggle then that can have a better chance of succeeding in preventing rape than anything else. I do know martial arts can help make one's personality strong, my brother was once timid but now he's stronger In personality.

The problem is, most rapes are committed by people the victim knows. It's not teaching someone how to fight back, it's teaching them they need to fight back against a teacher, their father, an aunt, their husband/wife or best friend. Teaching someone martial arts isn't going to solve that problem. You've got to instill a feeling that there are just certain things nobody is allowed to do. Even if they're someone you love and trust.

It's really easy to say, "but I'd fight back." There's no way to know until you're in that situation. Some will, but more people think they'd fight back then actually fight back.

As for stranger rapes, it's overly simplistic. Fighting back might help, it might get you killed. Some rapists like it when a victim fights back. It's a situation where you need to worry about staying alive.

If the solution for reducing rape was simple, we'd have reduced rape significantly already. And honestly, I wish it was as easy as teaching people martial arts. The problem is, it's not. We've got to change society, and that's so much harder.

We need to start teaching consent ethics at an early stage of development.
A lot of rapes are "entitlement"-rapes, which accounts for the somebody they know is more likely thing.
It also explains how so many people seem to regard people as "asking for it" in various ways, and things like steubenvilles public reaction.
That's probably the simplest and most effective solution, to be honest.

The extra bonus this yields is that consent ethics has multiple societal applications, not just rape.

UED wrote:
I actually hoped that society could change by having more reason and compassion. We have made progress but this isn't far enough

Yeah, and this is the heart of the problem. There also seems to be a huge backlash against trying to change society, and completely black and white thinking on everything.

For example, consent is either something we cannot ever ask for, or it's a 30 page contract that has to be witnessed and signed by a lawyer. Too many people pretend there's no middle ground.

Ostroeuropa wrote:We need to start teaching consent ethics at an early stage of development.
A lot of rapes are "entitlement"-rapes, which accounts for the somebody they know is more likely thing.
It also explains how so many people seem to regard people as "asking for it" in various ways, and things like steubenvilles public reaction.
That's probably the simplest and most effective solution, to be honest.

The extra bonus this yields is that consent ethics has multiple societal applications, not just rape.

I agree with this. It should be simple too. But, if we work to change the ethics of society, we might not like what those ethics say about us.

To use Steubenville as an example, a lot of people weren't really defending those boys, they were actually defending their own actions. I saw a lot of "I don't get what the big deal is, back in my day, that's what cheerleaders were for! It's just kids having fun."

That's even true with more mundane examples. I read a cracked article recently about jokes customer service people hate to hear. The comments had so many nasty comments directed towards the customer service folks that find repetitive, somewhat demeaning jokes, unfunny. People were seriously flying into rages about employees not liking to hear, "You missed a spot." So, it's really not surprising that changing attitudes about rape is met with such hostility.

If we could all just get over ourselves, realise that we've all been assholes at some point in time or another, we might be able to actually improve society.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/ ... VH20140123

KOLKATA, Jan 23 (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - A 20-year-old woman in eastern India was gang-raped by 13 men on the orders of a village court as punishment for having a relationship with a man from a different community, a senior police officer said on Thursday.

The woman, who is now recovering in hospital, told police she was assaulted by the men on the night of January 20 in Birbhum district in West Bengal.

Police said that her male companion was tied up in the village square, while the assault on the woman happened in a mud house.

"We arrested all the 13 men, including the village chief who ordered the gang rape. The accused have been produced in court which remanded them to jail custody," Birbhum's Superintendent of Police, C. Sudhakar, told the Thomson Reuters Foundation.

India toughened laws on sex crimes in March last year following the fatal gang rape of a physiotherapist on a moving bus in Delhi in December 2012. The case led to nationwide protests for better security and has helped sparked national debate about gender inequalities in India.

The issue was highlighted in local media again last week after a 51-year-old Danish tourist was gang-raped in central Delhi by at least five men whom she had asked for directions.

The West Bengal victim's family told media that she was assaulted because the court believed she had violated the rules of her tribe by falling in love with a man from another community.

The couple were ordered to pay a fine of 25,000 rupees ($400), said the victim's mother, adding that the village head then ordered the rape of her daughter.

Human rights groups say diktats issued by kangaroo courts are not uncommon in rural regions.

In northern parts of India, illegal village councils known as "Khap Panchayats" act as de-facto courts settling rural disputes on everything from land and cattle to matrimony and murder.

But such councils are coming under growing scrutiny as their punitive edicts grow more regressive - ranging from banning women from wearing western clothing and using mobile phones to supporting child marriage and sanctioning the lynching of young couples in so-called "honour killings".

The assault comes after a spate of high profile rapes in West Bengal which have brought Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee under fire for not doing enough to stop violence against women.

West Bengal recorded the highest number of gender crimes in the country at 30,942 in 2012 - 12.7 percent of India's total recorded crimes against women. These crimes include rape, kidnapping and sexual harassment and molestation.

Earlier this month, West Bengal's capital, Kolkata, witnessed public protests against police who have been accused of failing to act on the gang rape of a 16-year-old girl who was later murdered.

All my fucking nopes. All my rage. What the fuck, people.

UED wrote:I'm very shocked that the rate is at 20% for amount of women raped in the USA. The USA isn't the most civilized nation but its still pretty high compared to other nations. What is the best way to prevent rapes?
I'm siding with better education for both guys and gals as well as gals taking marital arts to beat the !@#$ out of guys.

I feel like the best way to prevent it is to educate women on the risks and men on the fact that that shit ain't cute.

I'm working on putting together consent workshops for high school students before they go to college. I'll be starting the first rounds of them in April. If anyone wants to do it with their own school or neighboring schools or just wants to take a look at the workshop feel free to ask me and I can send it to you.

Nazi Flower Power wrote:

UED wrote:I'm very shocked that the rate is at 20% for amount of women raped in the USA. The USA isn't the most civilized nation but its still pretty high compared to other nations. What is the best way to prevent rapes?
I'm siding with better education for both guys and gals as well as gals taking marital arts to beat the !@#$ out of guys.

And just being more assertive, even if you aren't a kung fu master. You shouldn't have to be assertive if that's not your personality, but in practice it does sometimes help.

Being assertive can help, the problem is that when a rapist is set on raping you, fighting back and being assertive can only go so far. Sometimes it's about staying alive, and if that means not fighting back (like in my situation) that's what it means. Now, that doesn't mean voice a "no" or start off trying to fight them - it means let your instincts tell you what to do and hold onto that.

ShellbyvilleHS wrote:

UED wrote:I'm very shocked that the rate is at 20% for amount of women raped in the USA. The USA isn't the most civilized nation but its still pretty high compared to other nations. What is the best way to prevent rapes?
I'm siding with better education for both guys and gals as well as gals taking marital arts to beat the !@#$ out of guys.

I feel like the best way to prevent it is to educate women on the risks and men on the fact that that shit ain't cute.

I'm working on putting together consent workshops for high school students before they go to college. I'll be starting the first rounds of them in April. If anyone wants to do it with their own school or neighboring schools or just wants to take a look at the workshop feel free to ask me and I can send it to you.

Eh, men can be raped and women can be rapist too :|

-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:

ShellbyvilleHS wrote:I feel like the best way to prevent it is to educate women on the risks and men on the fact that that shit ain't cute.

I'm working on putting together consent workshops for high school students before they go to college. I'll be starting the first rounds of them in April. If anyone wants to do it with their own school or neighboring schools or just wants to take a look at the workshop feel free to ask me and I can send it to you.

Eh, men can be raped and women can be rapist too :|

Right. I know that. Sorry it just kind of comes out the stereotypical way or the way that I experienced it.

ShellbyvilleHS wrote:

-The Unified Earth Governments- wrote:Eh, men can be raped and women can be rapist too :|

Right. I know that. Sorry it just kind of comes out the stereotypical way or the way that I experienced it.

Thats alright

Ostroeuropa wrote:

ThirdPrizeYoureFired wrote:The problem is, most rapes are committed by people the victim knows. It's not teaching someone how to fight back, it's teaching them they need to fight back against a teacher, their father, an aunt, their husband/wife or best friend. Teaching someone martial arts isn't going to solve that problem. You've got to instill a feeling that there are just certain things nobody is allowed to do. Even if they're someone you love and trust.

It's really easy to say, "but I'd fight back." There's no way to know until you're in that situation. Some will, but more people think they'd fight back then actually fight back.

As for stranger rapes, it's overly simplistic. Fighting back might help, it might get you killed. Some rapists like it when a victim fights back. It's a situation where you need to worry about staying alive.

If the solution for reducing rape was simple, we'd have reduced rape significantly already. And honestly, I wish it was as easy as teaching people martial arts. The problem is, it's not. We've got to change society, and that's so much harder.

We need to start teaching consent ethics at an early stage of development.
A lot of rapes are "entitlement"-rapes, which accounts for the somebody they know is more likely thing.
It also explains how so many people seem to regard people as "asking for it" in various ways, and things like steubenvilles public reaction.
That's probably the simplest and most effective solution, to be honest.

The extra bonus this yields is that consent ethics has multiple societal applications, not just rape.

Sounds like moralism to me... Bwegh.

With a relaxed, social libertarian and intelligent society rape isn't prevalent. No need to indoctrinate people with consent ethics then.

Jamjai wrote:

UED wrote:
Female to male, male to male and female to female rape also happens, its just not on a large scale as the male to female rape.
I wished society could stop being such a !@#$tard and actually stop a lot of these problems which we could stop if all of us just thought "What i'm doing is wrong, I'm not doing this"

yea, those individuals have social problems they have to fix

Or cultural and circumstantial factors apply. It's a bit more complicated than a mere "it's all the rapist's head's fault"

Unitaristic Regions wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:
We need to start teaching consent ethics at an early stage of development.
A lot of rapes are "entitlement"-rapes, which accounts for the somebody they know is more likely thing.
It also explains how so many people seem to regard people as "asking for it" in various ways, and things like steubenvilles public reaction.
That's probably the simplest and most effective solution, to be honest.

The extra bonus this yields is that consent ethics has multiple societal applications, not just rape.

Sounds like moralism to me... Bwegh.

With a relaxed, social libertarian and intelligent society rape isn't prevalent. No need to indoctrinate people with consent ethics then.

What's more socially libertarian than consent? What;s wrong with indoctrinating people with such things? Consent is something people need to learn, I mean I remember in middle school sex ed the teacher brought up that fucking a drunk person is considered rape, and practically the whole class was calling that bullshit and I was agreeing back then because I, as well as many other people, held that idea that rape is something that happens like out on the street with lots of fighting I didn't think of having sex with somebody drunk could be rape at that time. The teacher didn't argue she seemed to agree just saying that's the law. And when my old psych teacher has to bring it up and argue with high school seniors constantly that if a girl (example she used, applies to guys too obviously) is naked in your bed and she changes her mind and says no, you have to stop or it's rape, because evidently my psych teacher in high school is more socially responsible than shows a lack of consent ethics and knowing what rape is at an age where many are sexually active, on the verge of adulthood and really should know better, applies to a lesser extent to middle school, even 10 year olds are getting knocked up sometimes. And when you have an entire forum full of grown ass adults like the link I posted showing ignorance of consent ethics, that's a major fucking problem, people need to be taught these things or they'll never learn, a lot is common sense but still the way we're socialized will make some behaviors like that acceptable in our minds, it's extremely important to learn. The social consequences of lack of knowledge are terrible.

ShellbyvilleHS wrote:

Nazi Flower Power wrote:
And just being more assertive, even if you aren't a kung fu master. You shouldn't have to be assertive if that's not your personality, but in practice it does sometimes help.

Being assertive can help, the problem is that when a rapist is set on raping you, fighting back and being assertive can only go so far. Sometimes it's about staying alive, and if that means not fighting back (like in my situation) that's what it means. Now, that doesn't mean voice a "no" or start off trying to fight them - it means let your instincts tell you what to do and hold onto that.

There are a lot of guys who think saying no is just "part of the game," and being more insistent about it can get through to them that you really mean no.

Assertiveness doesn't just mean fighting back. It can also be telling someone, "I'm going home, you're not invited to come with me, and I don't care if you think I'm being boring or uptight," if someone is trying to pressure you into going somewhere with them and you don't feel comfortable with it.

This won't prevent 100% of all rapes because some would-be rapists are better than others at hiding their intentions until they have someone cornered, but I really believe it would help on average if women were more assertive. If people had a better understanding of consent, then it might not be necessary, but when they don't have a good grasp of consent, it's worthwhile to make a scene and let them know that what they are doing is not OK. I know it is sometimes hard for people to stand up for themselves, but I still believe it is worth doing.

Just so we're clear, I don't mean this as an attack on you for not putting up enough of a fight. Being scared is not asking for it. It's not like being scared is something people do on purpose. I want to respect the safe space, but I also want to share my honest opinion.

Anyway, good luck with your consent workshops. Hopefully you can steer some people in the right direction.

Unitaristic Regions wrote:

Jamjai wrote:yea, those individuals have social problems they have to fix

Or cultural and circumstantial factors apply. It's a bit more complicated than a mere "it's all the rapist's head's fault"

honestly, I think it has to do with mostly cultural factor

Unitaristic Regions wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:
We need to start teaching consent ethics at an early stage of development.
A lot of rapes are "entitlement"-rapes, which accounts for the somebody they know is more likely thing.
It also explains how so many people seem to regard people as "asking for it" in various ways, and things like steubenvilles public reaction.
That's probably the simplest and most effective solution, to be honest.

The extra bonus this yields is that consent ethics has multiple societal applications, not just rape.

Sounds like moralism to me... Bwegh.

With a relaxed, social libertarian and intelligent society rape isn't prevalent. No need to indoctrinate people with consent ethics then.

You think consent ethics is moralistic?

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Unitaristic Regions wrote:
Sounds like moralism to me... Bwegh.

With a relaxed, social libertarian and intelligent society rape isn't prevalent. No need to indoctrinate people with consent ethics then.

You think consent ethics is moralistic?

I think it would be more appropriate if people were raised into thinking that it is okay to ask things - especially in things like having sex.

The problem I see with society is that we're too chickenshit to ask anything or ask for anything, hence why we tend to rely on physical expressions, but even then, non-verbal language can betray. It's not the fact that people do not know better, it's the fact that people can read body language wrong and mix their signals therefore thinking "They're turned on by me but they don't want to admit it, what a cockteaser, I guess it's okay to rape them since they'd enjoy it and I am entitled to it damnit"

The basic rule for all social interactions should be: if unsure, fucking ask. It doesn't take anything other than a minute or two and you can walk away with some dignity out of it instead of losing it in a court of law.

Soldati senza confini wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:
You think consent ethics is moralistic?

I think it would be more appropriate if people were raised into thinking that it is okay to ask things - especially in things like having sex.

The problem I see with society is that we're too chickenshit to ask anything or ask for anything, hence why we tend to rely on physical expressions, but even then, non-verbal language can betray. It's not the fact that people do not know better, it's the fact that people can read body language wrong and mix their signals therefore thinking "They're turned on by me but they don't want to admit it, what a cockteaser, I guess it's okay to rape them since they'd enjoy it and I am entitled to it damnit"

The basic rule for all social interactions should be: if unsure, fucking ask. It doesn't take anything other than a minute or two and you can walk away with some dignity out of it instead of losing it in a court of law.

That can ofcourse be covered in a consent ethics class. I agree with you.