Rape Thread [SAFE SPACE - Mod Enforced]

[Damanucus]

Now, think about that statement.

How would you feel if a man told you "I would care about women's issues if I had a vagina."?

I never said I didn't care.
I simply meant it wouldn't be my place to start a men's center

Shell, I'll just put this out there.

Here in Australia, and I'm sure many places around the world, we have places called Men's Sheds. The primary focus is for men to find a place for them, and many have their a variety of tales, some pretty harrowing. I'm not sure if this has the same effect as the Women's Centres (which also exist here), but they can help out.

[Bottle]

If I had a penis, I would make a men's center. But I don't. So I love the fact that there's a women's center here for us, not just because of sexual assault or rape, but a lot of things.

Now, think about that statement.

How would you feel if a man told you "I would care about women's issues if I had a vagina."?

The problem is that the existing power balance makes that comparison unfair. Women are already disproportionately likely to be caregivers, are already disproportionately likely to give up their careers and individual goals to help their husbands' career, are disproportionately tasked with worrying about men's feelings and accommodating what men want, are dramatically under-represented and have their interests and issues disproportionately attacked, and on and on and on.

Expecting women's advocates to divert their time and energy to provide yet more care for men is really a spit in the face. Women have had to fight and claw to win the progress we have so far, usually fighting against active opposition and obstructionism from men, and even so women's groups already do a million times more to help male abuse survivors than every single "Men's Rights" organization put together. Yet it's never enough. It's always gotta be What About The Men.

Frankly, I find it revolting when anybody, of any gender, voices the belief that somebody else should sideline their current activist/volunteer work and take on a whole other set of work on behalf of some other cause. Do it your own damn self. You think "we" need men's shelters? Ok, YOU fucking build them! YOU become an activist if this cause is important to you! Make the world a better place, do it your own damn self, quit complaining that other people aren't spending their energy and time on what YOU happen to think is important. There is enough shit wrong in the world that we all can fill plenty of lifetimes with activism and work, there will be plenty of pain to go around I promise.

[Galloism]

Now, think about that statement.

How would you feel if a man told you "I would care about women's issues if I had a vagina."?

The problem is that the existing power balance makes that comparison unfair. Women are already disproportionately likely to be caregivers, are already disproportionately likely to give up their careers and individual goals to help their husbands' career, are disproportionately tasked with worrying about men's feelings and accommodating what men want, are dramatically under-represented and have their interests and issues disproportionately attacked, and on and on and on.

Expecting women's advocates to divert their time and energy to provide yet more care for men is really a spit in the face. Women have had to fight and claw to win the progress we have so far, usually fighting against active opposition and obstructionism from men, and even so women's groups already do a million times more to help male abuse survivors than every single "Men's Rights" organization put together. Yet it's never enough. It's always gotta be What About The Men.

Frankly, I find it revolting when anybody, of any gender, voices the belief that somebody else should sideline their current activist/volunteer work and take on a whole other set of work on behalf of some other cause. Do it your own damn self. You think "we" need men's shelters? Ok, YOU fucking build them! YOU become an activist if this cause is important to you! Make the world a better place, do it your own damn self, quit complaining that other people aren't spending their energy and time on what YOU happen to think is important. There is enough shit wrong in the world that we all can fill plenty of lifetimes with activism and work, there will be plenty of pain to go around I promise.

See, I divert time and energy to women's shelters already, despite the fact that I am not a woman.

I do the bookkeeping, payroll, and taxes for a women's shelter, for free mind you, because I think it's a good cause. I think their money should be spent on helping women who are down and out, victims of abuse, and need help, not on paying a for a professional to keep track of it.

Yet, despite the nearly indisputable fact (thanks CDC, and previous studies) that men are raped in similar frequency to women, men are victims of domestic violence in similar frequency to women, and are, in many cases, in similar economic straights as women, we have no place for them.

I donate services to a women's shelter because it's the right thing to do. It's in my power to do so, and so I've done it.

... and yet I've never seen anyone lift a finger for the other side. People keep claiming they do, but I've not seen it as of yet.

It makes me a little indignant, my apologies.

[Bottle]

The problem is that the existing power balance makes that comparison unfair. Women are already disproportionately likely to be caregivers, are already disproportionately likely to give up their careers and individual goals to help their husbands' career, are disproportionately tasked with worrying about men's feelings and accommodating what men want, are dramatically under-represented and have their interests and issues disproportionately attacked, and on and on and on.

Expecting women's advocates to divert their time and energy to provide yet more care for men is really a spit in the face. Women have had to fight and claw to win the progress we have so far, usually fighting against active opposition and obstructionism from men, and even so women's groups already do a million times more to help male abuse survivors than every single "Men's Rights" organization put together. Yet it's never enough. It's always gotta be What About The Men.

Frankly, I find it revolting when anybody, of any gender, voices the belief that somebody else should sideline their current activist/volunteer work and take on a whole other set of work on behalf of some other cause. Do it your own damn self. You think "we" need men's shelters? Ok, YOU fucking build them! YOU become an activist if this cause is important to you! Make the world a better place, do it your own damn self, quit complaining that other people aren't spending their energy and time on what YOU happen to think is important. There is enough shit wrong in the world that we all can fill plenty of lifetimes with activism and work, there will be plenty of pain to go around I promise.

See, I divert time and energy to women's shelters already, despite the fact that I am not a woman.

And that's great.

For you.

To choose to do.

With your time.

That is yours.

It's kind of like how it's great for me to donate my own money to the ACLU because I personally support what they do, but it wouldn't be nice of me to demand that my partner donate his money to the ACLU rather than to the causes he values. It's great for me to choose to volunteer at a free clinic because that is what I want to do with my time, but it wouldn't be great of me to complain to my friend that she should be volunteering with me instead of building houses for Habitat For Humanity.

Yet, despite the nearly indisputable fact (thanks CDC, and previous studies) that men are raped in similar frequency to women, men are victims of domestic violence in similar frequency to women, and are, in many cases, in similar economic straights as women, we have no place for them.

I donate services to a women's shelter because it's the right thing to do. It's in my power to do so, and so I've done it.

... and yet I've never seen anyone lift a finger for the other side. People keep claiming they do, but I've not seen it as of yet.

Why are you still talking about "anyone" lifting a finger?

YOU do it! If you think your shelter ought to be providing more services for men, then YOU fight for those services! If your shelter won't do it, then work to found your own shelter that does things you think are important!

You talk about how other people aren't doing fingerlifting, but why aren't you? If you think this is so important then why aren't YOU spending YOUR time and YOUR money to fix it? Why are you instead complaining about how other people won't do the work that YOU think is important?

It makes me a little indignant, my apologies.

Use that emotion to fuel your own activities. It pisses me off whenever I see women asked to, once again, give up their own interests and causes and activities in order to serve men, so you know what I do? I use that annoyance to motivate myself to donate a bit more instead of buying take-out this week. I use that annoyance to motivate me to go work with one of the organizations I support. I use that annoyance to prompt me to speak up when I see shit I think is wrong.

Nothing wrong with being indignant. Hell, you'd be a fucked up human if you lived in this world and WEREN'T indignant about the shit that goes on.

What matters is how you use it.

[Galloism]

See, I divert time and energy to women's shelters already, despite the fact that I am not a woman.

And that's great.

For you.

To choose to do.

With your time.

That is yours.

It's kind of like how it's great for me to donate my own money to the ACLU because I personally support what they do, but it wouldn't be nice of me to demand that my partner donate his money to the ACLU rather than to the causes he values. It's great for me to choose to volunteer at a free clinic because that is what I want to do with my time, but it wouldn't be great of me to complain to my friend that she should be volunteering with me instead of building houses for Habitat For Humanity.

And yet, if he claimed he did so because he's a man, it implies a certain sort of sexism behind it.

Yet, despite the nearly indisputable fact (thanks CDC, and previous studies) that men are raped in similar frequency to women, men are victims of domestic violence in similar frequency to women, and are, in many cases, in similar economic straights as women, we have no place for them.

I donate services to a women's shelter because it's the right thing to do. It's in my power to do so, and so I've done it.

... and yet I've never seen anyone lift a finger for the other side. People keep claiming they do, but I've not seen it as of yet.

Why are you still talking about "anyone" lifting a finger?

YOU do it! If you think your shelter ought to be providing more services for men, then YOU fight for those services! If your shelter won't do it, then work to found your own shelter that does things you think are important!

Actually, I looked into it last year.

I even started looking through the federal grant process in order to get one going. Here in the south, we have a major domestic violence problem, on both sides. However, the federal grant process only will give grants to male shelters if the same organization also operates a women's shelter (or it's a mixed gender shelter)

I went to the local women's shelter and asked them if they would be willing to put up a male shelter under their banner.

They said that was "not within their organization's objectives" (which was actually true: the articles describe the organization's purpose as to "fund and operate a shelter for women or a group thereof". It also stipulated a unanimous vote of the board would be required to amend the articles).

I got one person who was willing to put up money to apply for nonprofit status, and one other donor who would put in a few hundred a year (a victim of domestic violence himself previously), but could get no other backers. However, I would either have to put up a mixed gender shelter (which, there's a reason such shelters tend to be women only) or put up two buildings, which there was no way we would have enough backing to do, even with federal grants.

The whole thing sort of fizzled out after that.

You talk about how other people aren't doing fingerlifting, but why aren't you? If you think this is so important then why aren't YOU spending YOUR time and YOUR money to fix it? Why are you instead complaining about how other people won't do the work that YOU think is important?

I try every now and again, but I can never get any support, and I'm not rich enough to self-fund one.

It makes me a little indignant, my apologies.

Use that emotion to fuel your own activities. It pisses me off whenever I see women asked to, once again, give up their own interests and causes and activities in order to serve men, so you know what I do? I use that annoyance to motivate myself to donate a bit more instead of buying take-out this week. I use that annoyance to motivate me to go work with one of the organizations I support. I use that annoyance to prompt me to speak up when I see shit I think is wrong.

Nothing wrong with being indignant. Hell, you'd be a fucked up human if you lived in this world and WEREN'T indignant about the shit that goes on.

What matters is how you use it.

Well, I try every now and again. I get nowhere, but, then again, with no federal backing and no societal backing, and not being Donald Trump, well... you can see how I get frustrated.

[Homosexy]

I never said I didn't care.
I simply meant it wouldn't be my place to start a men's center

Shell, I'll just put this out there.

Here in Australia, and I'm sure many places around the world, we have places called Men's Sheds. The primary focus is for men to find a place for them, and many have their a variety of tales, some pretty harrowing. I'm not sure if this has the same effect as the Women's Centres (which also exist here), but they can help out.

See, this is good. Thank you for sharing this.

[Homosexy]

If you don't think we need women fighting for other women, or that the focus should be on everyone (yay let's be an equal community because we all have worlds of time on our hands to help everyone without choosing one group that we care about! no.) should think about women in other countries. Sure, if you live in a more developed country, it's a little more difficult to see the line between man and woman and what a woman has to go through by the hands of a man. But think about the women who, if they're seen without a male escort, and get raped, it's their fault. Think about the woman who had her clitoris cut off. Think of the mother that has to have sex with her landlord to keep her kids housed. Think about all these women, and then tell me there's no need for groups like the Women's Center, because it's sexist. Pulease.

Why can't women just have a place where women can help other women, without people crying about how it's not helping men?

Women go through SO MUCH, just on a day to day experience, and then on top of that, we're looked at as less than men, sex objects, and put up with abuse. I'm not saying that men don't go through this too. And you men might say "well I don't think like that"
Good for you.
But you're not the whole world, are you?
As a woman, and as someone who knows what it's like to be a raped woman, an abused woman, a used woman, etc, all by the hands of men. I want to put my time and effort into helping other women who have gone through what I have. How is that sexist?

[Galloism]

If you don't think we need women fighting for other women, or that the focus should be on everyone (yay let's be an equal community because we all have worlds of time on our hands to help everyone without choosing one group that we care about! no.) should think about women in other countries. Sure, if you live in a more developed country, it's a little more difficult to see the line between man and woman and what a woman has to go through by the hands of a man. But think about the women who, if they're seen without a male escort, and get raped, it's their fault. Think about the woman who had her clitoris cut off. Think of the mother that has to have sex with her landlord to keep her kids housed. Think about all these women, and then tell me there's no need for groups like the Women's Center, because it's sexist. Pulease.

Actually, if you had read my posts, you would notice I donate professional services to a women's shelter. Clearly, I wouldn't do that if I felt such facilities were useless or unsalvagably sexist.

I just also note that not only women suffer oppression. Not only women have to pay for things with sex. Not only women are victims of domestic violence, rape, and other atrocious things committed by terrible people.

And, on the subject of rape, do you know what the reaction was when I had sex while unconscious with someone whom I didn't really know?

"congrats man, she's hot" and variants thereof. Another good one was "you're upset you got laid? You gay?"

It had been so ingrained upon me by society that men are always consenting that it took TJ and later Ashmoria to clarify that it was not my fault, and actually was, in fact, nonconsentual sex. Society impressed it on me so hard that I couldn't be a victim even I was convinced.

Now you tell me, do men suffer at the hands of women?

Not anymore than the other way, I reckon.

Why can't women just have a place where women can help other women, without people crying about how it's not helping men?

Oh I'm not crying about it. I'm just saying that there's a very sexist slant in society marginalizing and minimizing male victims. It's very... angering. It shouldn't have to be about what parts you have.

It should be about the individual.

Women go through SO MUCH, just on a day to day experience, and then on top of that, we're looked at as less than men, sex objects, and put up with abuse. I'm not saying that men don't go through this too. And you men might say "well I don't think like that"
Good for you.
But you're not the whole world, are you?
As a woman, and as someone who knows what it's like to be a raped woman, an abused woman, a used woman, etc, all by the hands of men. I want to put my time and effort into helping other women who have gone through what I have. How is that sexist?

See, and that's the difference between you and me. What happened is miles ahead more important than the plumbing involved.

I realize you feel like a victim. It's actually understandable. Some man or some few men somewhere victimized you. You, not being a man, now start viewing them the same way some right wing Christians view Muslims, as all terrorists. Why? They are an outside group, and a representative or some representatives of that outside group did something terrible. Therefore, our natural reaction is to hate the outside group.

It's easy to do. It's quick and convenient.

It also happens to be flat out wrong thing to do.

Your posts do not exist in a vacuum. Your casual implication in the eternal thread that a men feel entitled to rape because they have a penis did not go unnoticed.

I only hope you get a handle on the class victimization and the hate building inside you before you write off half the world population as monsters officially. I avoided considering all women as evil, and I suspect you can do the same for men.


What can I say? I'm in my angry phase.

[ThirdPrizeYoureFired]

This thread has gone from a safe, supportive space to something rather hostile. It's a shame and quite frankly makes me angry. It makes me even more angry that not one, but two moderators chose to engage in debate with someone making this thread hostile instead of perhaps pointing out that this isn't the thread for telling a sexual assault victim they should go into sex work.

Since then, debates with a rather agressive tone keep popping up making this thread half debate, half whack-a-mole. That isn't what this thread is supposed to be, and hasn't been for the majority of it's life. I think there's enough debate threads on NSG and more than enough threads on rape, feminisim and sex work that this thread should be able to continue to be a safe space.

[Homosexy]

I agree with this ^ Which is why I just finished posting this.

As far as the sexism topic, I'm going to drop it after this last comment, because I dislike people making assumptions about me. Which seems to be all this conversation has been.

First off, the comment I made about "what, do all men think that just because they have a penis they can screw with me?" was based on the fact that I had just gotten pretty badly sexually harrassed, which wasn't making life very fun. You might be in your angry state, but I was hurt, scared, and furious all at the same time. And I already apologized about blowing up at everyone. So that point is not valid.

Secondly, sure, men go through things. I'm sorry about that experience. That's sickening. It sucks. But in the general world, I sympathize and feel like doing way more for women. It's not like we're at an advantage. So what, we have a Women's Center. Big deal. It's a great community. But the Women's Center, no matter how hard we try, doesn't make a very big impact on the everyday struggle of women. Like I said, it might be difficult to see in developed countries, as men, but it's there. And as a woman, I see it all the time. Having to have my dad or my boyfriend at the time call a taxi for me when I'm saying what cross street I'm on to the taxi guy and he's saying "look, chick..." and they treat them with more respect. Getting paid less than a man that has been at that job less time than my female friend. It's all there. People might not see it, but it's there. Someone has to be there to fight for women, and that's what we're here to do.

Finally, I never said I hated "the other group". Ever. In contrast to how you clearly think I'm thinking because you know so much about how I think. I've had many good men in my life, both as family and as friends, and, in general, I think men are great. And then there are the bad eggs, whom I have encountered. The cowards, the users, the abusers and the rapists. Now, does that mean that I think that all men are scum and don't deserve my help, or that all women are saints and never abuse or use anyone? No. But what it does mean is that, based on my experiences, that I am more willing to put my time into the Women's Center and helping women than I am to help a men's group. It's not about sexism. It's about priorities.

I don't see how this standpoint is so difficult to understand to all these people that say feminists are sexist, blah blah blah. When I was in high school, and I saw that there was no group for theatre people in my high school, I made one. I didn't sit around and bitch about how the sports teams were being unfair, I just made a group. If you want to do something about an issue, instead of accusing other people who care more about another issue of being sexist or whatever, then do something about it yourself.

A woman who cares about the Women's Center, and cares about men's issues, but chooses not to get involved, is not sexist. And if people would just get out of that mindset, they'd get it.

And that's the end of it. I'm not changing my mind, so you can stop trying. This was supposed to be a safe space for rape victims. All I did was put in there that the Women's Center is a great resource for women who have been raped (I didn't even mention men, because I don't know if there are places where they can go) and I got my head bit off. So knock it off, or get out of my thread, as I've said to multiple other people.

[Tlaceceyaya]

I don't see how this standpoint is so difficult to understand to all these people that say feminists are sexist, blah blah blah. When I was in high school, and I saw that there was no group for theatre people in my high school, I made one. I didn't sit around and bitch about how the sports teams were being unfair, I just made a group. If you want to do something about an issue, instead of accusing other people who care more about another issue of being sexist or whatever, then do something about it yourself.

He has tried to do that, rather than 'sit around and bitch about it.'

[Tratvia]

If you don't think we need women fighting for other women, or that the focus should be on everyone (yay let's be an equal community because we all have worlds of time on our hands to help everyone without choosing one group that we care about! no.) should think about women in other countries. Sure, if you live in a more developed country, it's a little more difficult to see the line between man and woman and what a woman has to go through by the hands of a man. But think about the women who, if they're seen without a male escort, and get raped, it's their fault. Think about the woman who had her clitoris cut off. Think of the mother that has to have sex with her landlord to keep her kids housed. Think about all these women, and then tell me there's no need for groups like the Women's Center, because it's sexist. Pulease.

Actually, if you had read my posts, you would notice I donate professional services to a women's shelter. Clearly, I wouldn't do that if I felt such facilities were useless or unsalvagably sexist.

I just also note that not only women suffer oppression. Not only women have to pay for things with sex. Not only women are victims of domestic violence, rape, and other atrocious things committed by terrible people.

And, on the subject of rape, do you know what the reaction was when I had sex while unconscious with someone whom I didn't really know?

"congrats man, she's hot" and variants thereof. Another good one was "you're upset you got laid? You gay?"

It had been so ingrained upon me by society that men are always consenting that it took TJ and later Ashmoria to clarify that it was not my fault, and actually was, in fact, nonconsentual sex. Society impressed it on me so hard that I couldn't be a victim even I was convinced.

Now you tell me, do men suffer at the hands of women?

Not anymore than the other way, I reckon.

Why can't women just have a place where women can help other women, without people crying about how it's not helping men?

Oh I'm not crying about it. I'm just saying that there's a very sexist slant in society marginalizing and minimizing male victims. It's very... angering. It shouldn't have to be about what parts you have.

It should be about the individual.

Women go through SO MUCH, just on a day to day experience, and then on top of that, we're looked at as less than men, sex objects, and put up with abuse. I'm not saying that men don't go through this too. And you men might say "well I don't think like that"
Good for you.
But you're not the whole world, are you?
As a woman, and as someone who knows what it's like to be a raped woman, an abused woman, a used woman, etc, all by the hands of men. I want to put my time and effort into helping other women who have gone through what I have. How is that sexist?

See, and that's the difference between you and me. What happened is miles ahead more important than the plumbing involved.

I realize you feel like a victim. It's actually understandable. Some man or some few men somewhere victimized you. You, not being a man, now start viewing them the same way some right wing Christians view Muslims, as all terrorists. Why? They are an outside group, and a representative or some representatives of that outside group did something terrible. Therefore, our natural reaction is to hate the outside group.

It's easy to do. It's quick and convenient.

It also happens to be flat out wrong thing to do.

Your posts do not exist in a vacuum. Your casual implication in the eternal thread that a men feel entitled to rape because they have a penis did not go unnoticed.

I only hope you get a handle on the class victimization and the hate building inside you before you write off half the world population as monsters officially. I avoided considering all women as evil, and I suspect you can do the same for men.


What can I say? I'm in my angry phase.

I would argue that a part of this is definition: I am also a rape survivor, and a man. To my mind the rapist is not a human being, he or she is a wild animal and should be shot on sight dealt with according to due process of law. Do I blame all males for what happened to me? No. It was one paedophile teacher (who also happened to be the school scoutmaster and a special policeman) in an environment in which he, along with several others could victimize/abuse children. And, Homosexy, I would raise the quality of and quantity of aid for everyone. Ideally, there will one day come a time where we don't need women's shelters/centres of any kind because law and society take rape/domestic abuse/whatever sufficiently seriously. Maybe that will even happen in my lifetime. Until it does, women's centres perform a vital role and should be supported, but we also need to support male survivors.

Anyway, I'm not trying to have a go at you, Homosexy, just express my opinion on a very personal matter.

[Homosexy]

And, Homosexy, I would raise the quality of and quantity of aid for everyone. Ideally, there will one day come a time where we don't need women's shelters/centres of any kind because law and society take rape/domestic abuse/whatever sufficiently seriously. Maybe that will even happen in my lifetime. Until it does, women's centres perform a vital role and should be supported, but we also need to support male survivors.

Anyway, I'm not trying to have a go at you, Homosexy, just express my opinion on a very personal matter.

Of course, maybe one day there will be no need for Women's Centers that help women with their struggles, but I doubt that'll ever happen. We're really trying, but social battles are pretty difficult to fight.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say though. Of course, we need to somehow support male survivors, I agree with that, but it doesn't make me sexist that I choose to participate in the Women's Center, and not participate in the setup of a Male Center.

[Homosexy]

And now I'm dropping the subject. If anyone wants to argue with me about it further, go ahead and TG me, but I'm not going to have this community be tainted because people feel like acting like this. Including myself, I admit it, that I got a bit involved in the conversation, but it needs to be taken somewhere else. I don't plan on changing my mind, but if anyone wants to have a go at it, you're free to TG me.

But like I said, I'm not going to have this community be ruined by arguing.

[Gaveo]

And now I'm dropping the subject. If anyone wants to argue with me about it further, go ahead and TG me, but I'm not going to have this community be tainted because people feel like acting like this. Including myself, I admit it, that I got a bit involved in the conversation, but it needs to be taken somewhere else. I don't plan on changing my mind, but if anyone wants to have a go at it, you're free to TG me.

But like I said, I'm not going to have this community be ruined by arguing.

Nicely said, Homosexy.

[Tratvia]

And, Homosexy, I would raise the quality of and quantity of aid for everyone. Ideally, there will one day come a time where we don't need women's shelters/centres of any kind because law and society take rape/domestic abuse/whatever sufficiently seriously. Maybe that will even happen in my lifetime. Until it does, women's centres perform a vital role and should be supported, but we also need to support male survivors.

Anyway, I'm not trying to have a go at you, Homosexy, just express my opinion on a very personal matter.

Of course, maybe one day there will be no need for Women's Centers that help women with their struggles, but I doubt that'll ever happen. We're really trying, but social battles are pretty difficult to fight.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say though. Of course, we need to somehow support male survivors, I agree with that, but it doesn't make me sexist that I choose to participate in the Women's Center, and not participate in the setup of a Male Center.

Quite so, it just means that you are helping where you believe it will go to best use. I would argue that support should be provided, as it was for me, through the NHS in Britain or it's equivalent in other countries, not left to charities to pick up the slack. Of course, in the current circumstances that is quite unlikely to happen, and it is good that women's centres exist. I would argue that equivalent men's centres should exist, but not that anyone should be in any way forced to contribute to them.

[Tratvia]

Drat. Missed your last post, Homosexy. I think I've made my position as clear as it will get, so am also leaving this argument.

[Homosexy]

By the way, I'm also going to repeat what I said earlier without the sexist argument following it, for any girls who didn't see it.

To the girls who have experienced rape, or social issues that have been caused by your being a woman, as many of us have, the Women's Center is a really great place to go. Not just for counseling, there are resources, a community, and most of the time they feed you, too. So if you ever need somewhere to go, your nearest Women's Center is always a great place.

[Homosexy]

Here's another point for discussion.

I recently submitted a poem to a site I'm a member of about rape. Not mine, but just rape in general. It was pretty raw and gritty and very real, in my opinion, and it was removed from the site. When I asked why, they said that they support poems about coping with rape, but not about rape itself.

Why is this?

[Mushet]

Here's another point for discussion.

I recently submitted a poem to a site I'm a member of about rape. Not mine, but just rape in general. It was pretty raw and gritty and very real, in my opinion, and it was removed from the site. When I asked why, they said that they support poems about coping with rape, but not about rape itself.

Why is this?

It could be too real, too raw for them to handle. Or perhaps they have that as a general rule so creeps wouldn't post poems about raping others, although I don't see that as very good grounds to remove your poem since it was of a different nature.

[Yaltabaoth]

Here's another point for discussion.

I recently submitted a poem to a site I'm a member of about rape. Not mine, but just rape in general. It was pretty raw and gritty and very real, in my opinion, and it was removed from the site. When I asked why, they said that they support poems about coping with rape, but not about rape itself.

Why is this?

Pure speculation here, but perhaps they're concerned that your poem might trigger other survivors?
I know some sites that will publish a "Trigger Warning" before discussing topics like rape, so that survivors don't accidentally read content that may be distressing for them.

[Forsakia]

Here's another point for discussion.

I recently submitted a poem to a site I'm a member of about rape. Not mine, but just rape in general. It was pretty raw and gritty and very real, in my opinion, and it was removed from the site. When I asked why, they said that they support poems about coping with rape, but not about rape itself.

Why is this?

It could be too real, too raw for them to handle. Or perhaps they have that as a general rule so creeps wouldn't post poems about raping others, although I don't see that as very good grounds to remove your poem since it was of a different nature.

Probably easier to have a blanket rule, otherwise you get into a very grey and subjective area.

[Damanucus]

Here's another point for discussion.

I recently submitted a poem to a site I'm a member of about rape. Not mine, but just rape in general. It was pretty raw and gritty and very real, in my opinion, and it was removed from the site. When I asked why, they said that they support poems about coping with rape, but not about rape itself.

Why is this?

I did the same thing with a similar poem. I had it listed as "transgressive" because of its subject matter, and I was asked by the community to shelve it. The comments given were that is was gross. (It was pretty graphic, I'll admit.)

[Nazi Flower Power]

Here's another point for discussion.

I recently submitted a poem to a site I'm a member of about rape. Not mine, but just rape in general. It was pretty raw and gritty and very real, in my opinion, and it was removed from the site. When I asked why, they said that they support poems about coping with rape, but not about rape itself.

Why is this?

If you posted it here, would it get taken down for violating the PG-13 rule?

Sex is taboo, and rape just makes it moreso because it's such an unpleasant subject. Some sites just don't want to make readers uncomfortable.

[Damanucus]

Here's another point for discussion.

I recently submitted a poem to a site I'm a member of about rape. Not mine, but just rape in general. It was pretty raw and gritty and very real, in my opinion, and it was removed from the site. When I asked why, they said that they support poems about coping with rape, but not about rape itself.

Why is this?

If you posted it here, would it get taken down for violating the PG-13 rule?

Sex is taboo, and rape just makes it moreso because it's such an unpleasant subject. Some sites just don't want to make readers uncomfortable.

Wouldn't've been here; she would've been warned if it was. (Plus she's well aware of the rules here.) My guess is that it was an art or poetry site.

But that said, your comments are probably right there. But I am going to raise this question (having trekked this territory myself, as I said before): when writing about rape itself (not the aftereffects), is it fine to scare the reader into what rape is like, or should it be stylised like in classical European art?