The Staffordshire Hoard of Anglo-Saxon gold

[The Archregimancy]

The discovery of Britain's largest hoard of Anglo-Saxon gold (about 1,500 objects, some 5 kilos of gold - and another 2.5 kilos of silver) has just been officially announced:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/8272058.stm

This easily dwarfs the 1.5 kilos of gold found at the famous Sutton Hoo site in 1939.

Photographs of 613 of the objects can be found here:

http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/


This is an extraordinary archaeological find that has the potential to completely redefine our understanding of the early medieval period in England specifically, and Britain more generally.


I'm not convinced this will generate as much discussion as a thread on religion, abortion, or the president of the USA - nor do I intend it to - but enough interest has been shown in archaeology in other discussions on this board that I thought some of you might like to see a little more of what is a very exciting discovery.

Any sensible professional archaeologist - like me - will always tell you that archaeology's not really about finding gold or treasure, but every now and then something like this comes along and even we have to draw breath and say 'wow'.

[Jamaalea]

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[The Archregimancy]

Well. I find it rather cool, with my PhD in history, but wouldn't it have been better, not to be a bummer, if we spent government and public funding on something we need to ACTUALLY do, like finishing this GODDAMN war in Afghanistan and blowing that caveman out of his little hole, or sorting out our fecked up economy, or maybe, if we cut funds for our corrupt British government, we MIGHT just be able to do something VERY useful. If it was up to those crackheads, we'd dig up the friggin M1... I am, however quite interested in this....anything else found?

PS. With the gold prices at what they are... could we smelt it?

You seem to be confused over how the hoard was discovered, and who paid for it. It was discovered by a metal detectorist on private land. Very little direct national government money will have gone into this, though local government bodies in Birmingham and Staffordshire are involved, so I fail to see how your argument about use of national government funds is in any way relevant.

Should the museums and local authorities in Birmingham and Staffordshire decide to keep the hoard, then yes, the finders and landowners would be due compensation for the full value of the hoard under the 1996 Treasure Act. Working out the value of this hoard is likely to be a long and difficult process, but again, this isn't really the responsibility of the national government in Westminster.

Very little is known about the site yet, so I can't answer the question regarding whether anything else was found. I would be surprised, however, if the site didn't host a major programme of archaeological fieldwork in the coming decades.

And no, legally we can't smelt it.

[Der Teutoniker]

So that's where Fafnir's hoard ended up.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

This is interesting enough to get great attention, Archregimancy. In my opinion we may not be talking about the dark ages any more in future, more like the Saxon ages.

[Douchebaggerry]

My money is on it being Offa's or Penda's.

[Blouman Empire]

Should the museums and local authorities in Birmingham and Staffordshire decide to keep the hoard, then yes, the finders and landowners would be due compensation for the full value of the hoard under the 1996 Treasure Act. Working out the value of this hoard is likely to be a long and difficult process, but again, this isn't really the responsibility of the national government in Westminster.

Really, I thought the law was all gold and silver found on British soil belonged to the crown (which is now the government) and not entitled to any compenstion.

[Conservative Ad Droid]

Hm, congrats on the find, it's truly a marvel.

[West Failure]

Is it possible to tell where the gold originated by how much copper, silver and arsenic for example it contains? Or would a hoard like this have been passed around, re-smelted, mixed together that it cannot be traced to a source?

[The Archregimancy]

Should the museums and local authorities in Birmingham and Staffordshire decide to keep the hoard, then yes, the finders and landowners would be due compensation for the full value of the hoard under the 1996 Treasure Act. Working out the value of this hoard is likely to be a long and difficult process, but again, this isn't really the responsibility of the national government in Westminster.

Really, I thought the law was all gold and silver found on British soil belonged to the crown (which is now the government) and not entitled to any compenstion.

From the 'Questions and Answers' section of the official Staffordshire Hoard web page (see OP for link):

Who does the hoard belong to?
The whole framework for determining ownership is laid out in The Treasure Act 1996, which replaced the former common law relating to "treasure trove".

Essentially today’s Inquest declared the Hoard to be treasure and vested ownership in the Crown. The hoard is now offered to museums to acquire, and Staffordshire County Council, Birmingham City Council and Stoke-on-Trent City Council are working together towards this goal.

However the finder and land owner are entitled to a reward which is the full value of the treasure. If this is not forthcoming the treasure is considered 'disclaimed', and would likely revert to the ownership of the land owner and finder who could dispose of it (or keep it) as they see fit.

My OP was perhaps slightly unclear on a couple of these details. Just to clarify, a hoard doesn't automatically belong to the Crown unless an inquest decides that it is officially treasure, in which case the Crown acquires ownership. However, the original finder and landowner are still entitled to compensation, where ownership is indeed vested in the Crown, and are entitled to reacquire ownership if said compensation isn't forthcoming.

[The Archregimancy]

Is it possible to tell where the gold originated by how much copper, silver and arsenic for example it contains? Or would a hoard like this have been passed around, re-smelted, mixed together that it cannot be traced to a source?

I honestly don't know - Saxon metallurgy isn't my area of specialisation (and I should also stress for Conservative Ad Droid that the congrats don't go to me - it's not my discovery!), and this is so new I don't know if much analysis has been done yet anyway.

In so far as any analysis is available, Kevin Leahy - who is a Saxon metallurgist - has given the following interview:

http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/interview/

Douchebaggery (unfortunate nation name or not) may not be that far off with hypothesising a connection with Offa or Penda; it's certainly the right time period and right location for Penda (Offa was second half of the 8th century), though it's far too early to say whether a direct connection can be made. In that context, I find it interesting that at least one of the objects has a Christian inscription. Bede writes in his Ecclesiastical History that Penda tolerated the preaching of Christianity in Mercia, but was a pagan himself. While this is merely an educated guess on my part rather than an official scholarly opinion, we could perhaps be seeing some of the earliest Saxon Christian material culture in Mercia.

[Blouman Empire]

Should the museums and local authorities in Birmingham and Staffordshire decide to keep the hoard, then yes, the finders and landowners would be due compensation for the full value of the hoard under the 1996 Treasure Act. Working out the value of this hoard is likely to be a long and difficult process, but again, this isn't really the responsibility of the national government in Westminster.

Really, I thought the law was all gold and silver found on British soil belonged to the crown (which is now the government) and not entitled to any compenstion.

From the 'Questions and Answers' section of the official Staffordshire Hoard web page (see OP for link):

Who does the hoard belong to?
The whole framework for determining ownership is laid out in The Treasure Act 1996, which replaced the former common law relating to "treasure trove".

Essentially today’s Inquest declared the Hoard to be treasure and vested ownership in the Crown. The hoard is now offered to museums to acquire, and Staffordshire County Council, Birmingham City Council and Stoke-on-Trent City Council are working together towards this goal.

However the finder and land owner are entitled to a reward which is the full value of the treasure. If this is not forthcoming the treasure is considered 'disclaimed', and would likely revert to the ownership of the land owner and finder who could dispose of it (or keep it) as they see fit.

My OP was perhaps slightly unclear on a couple of these details. Just to clarify, a hoard doesn't automatically belong to the Crown unless an inquest decides that it is officially treasure, in which case the Crown acquires ownership. However, the original finder and landowner are still entitled to compensation, where ownership is indeed vested in the Crown, and are entitled to reacquire ownership if said compensation isn't forthcoming.

Ah k, I see, I was only aware of the old Treasure Trove law, not the reform.

[Douchebaggerry]

Offa was second half of the 8th century.

From what I heard on the radio this morning, they were estimating it to be from the period of 600-800, so Offa just about slips in there.

[UNIverseVERSE]

Well. I find it rather cool, with my PhD in history, but wouldn't it have been better, not to be a bummer, if we spent government and public funding on something we need to ACTUALLY do, like finishing this GODDAMN war in Afghanistan and blowing that caveman out of his little hole, or sorting out our fecked up economy, or maybe, if we cut funds for our corrupt British government, we MIGHT just be able to do something VERY useful. If it was up to those crackheads, we'd dig up the friggin M1... I am, however quite interested in this....anything else found?

PS. With the gold prices at what they are... could we smelt it?

To be clear, you are proposing to destroy some 1500 near-unique historical objects, for mere cash value. Have you no soul?

[Nodinia]

To be clear, you are proposing to destroy some 1500 near-unique historical objects, for mere cash value. Have you no soul?

He's a member of the 'Crack Ho' school of archaeology.

[Iron Chariots]

I think that the only just thing to do is give it all to me.

Seriously, though. This is really cool. I can't wait to see what new information can be gotten out of this find.

[The Archregimancy]

Offa was second half of the 8th century.

From what I heard on the radio this morning, they were estimating it to be from the period of 600-800, so Offa just about slips in there.

My sources are telling me 7th century, which makes Penda more likely than Offa. But it's early days yet, so I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility that what you heard on the radio may be correct.

Then again, Mercia had a total of about 15 monarchs (depending on how we count) in the 7th and 8th centuries, so it needn't really be associated with either of them.

[Douchebaggerry]

My sources are telling me 7th century,

Well they're probably more accurate than mine, so I'll go with this lol.

Then again, Mercia had a total of about 15 monarchs (depending on how we count) in the 7th and 8th centuries, so it needn't really be associated with either of them.

Of which Penda and Offa are 2 out of the total of 3 I can name. I was just trying to sound clever...

[The_pantless_hero]

[
Should the museums and local authorities in Birmingham and Staffordshire decide to keep the hoard, then yes, the finders and landowners would be due compensation for the full value of the hoard under the 1996 Treasure Act. Working out the value of this hoard is likely to be a long and difficult process,

5 kilos of gold? Value: phat loot

[Jamaalea]

Doesn't liz have enough gold? £6,000,000,000,000 is a lot of money for someone with little time left here.... and that....creature charles.....

[Douchebaggerry]

Doesn't liz have enough gold? £6,000,000,000,000 is a lot of money for someone with little time left here.... and that....creature charles.....

The money isn't going to the Royal Family. Not sure what you're on about there.

[The Archregimancy]

Doesn't liz have enough gold? £6,000,000,000,000 is a lot of money for someone with little time left here.... and that....creature charles.....

The Hoard becomes the property of the Crown, not of the Queen.

The Crown is a legal term to describe state property, not the personal property of the monarch. Declaring that the Staffordshire Hoard is the property of the Crown is essentially a legal manoeuvre to keep it out of private hands, and to guarantee it doesn't leave the country.

It will, in all probability, end up at the British Museum, not in a cupboard in Buckingham Palace.

[The_pantless_hero]

Doesn't liz have enough gold? £6,000,000,000,000 is a lot of money for someone with little time left here.... and that....creature charles.....

JK Rowling is worth more than the queen. The crown may have an assload in assets, but very little is really liquid.

[Saxemberg]

To be clear, you are proposing to destroy some 1500 near-unique historical objects, for mere cash value. Have you no soul?

Well, why not? The world got along without these objects for more than a thousand years. And their near-uniqueness is the result of people not valuing other objects from the same period highly enough to preserve them, over time.

Furthermore, it's not clear if these objects possess any real historical value. What can these things teach us that we didn't already know about the culture that produced them? And what's more: do we need to keep these things around in order to realize their historical value?

Age doesn't necessarily add value to anything. Atari buried hundreds of thousands of unsold copies of E.T. the Extraterrestrial in a New Mexico landfill. Even if people dig them up a thousand years hence, they'll still say: "Wow--what a crappy video game."

And speaking from a purely aesthetic standpoint, I don't find the items in the Staffordshire hoard all that impressive. So it seems to me that their value is purely subjective, like the value of any other objet d'art.

If people who like this kind of thing want to pay more for them than their materials are worth, then that's fine. Otherwise, once they've been photographed and studied, what's wrong with melting them down?

[Saxemberg]

Doesn't liz have enough gold? £6,000,000,000,000 is a lot of money for someone with little time left here.... and that....creature charles.....

The Hoard becomes the property of the Crown, not of the Queen.

The Crown is a legal term to describe state property, not the personal property of the monarch. Declaring that the Staffordshire Hoard is the property of the Crown is essentially a legal manoeuvre to keep it out of private hands, and to guarantee it doesn't leave the country.

Yes. See Jordanna Bailkin's The Culture of Property: The Crisis of Liberalism in Modern Britain (University of Chicago Press, 2004) for an interesting case study of a dispute over treasure at the turn of the last century--in this case, the Broighter Gold.