Girl refused school place because of pregnancy, being single

[The Ancient and Orthodox Potato Church]

Private educational institutions should be able to accept or deny whomever they want. Public institutions on the other hand should accept all students; regardless of their physical or family status.

The school in question is totally dependant on state funding. It also teaches to the state curriculum and is staffed by state employed teachers.

While legally it is probably a religious owned institution, that is just a polite legal fiction used by a government who are too in thrall to a reactionary elite to do anything about the problems within Irish education (like properly nationalising all the schools).

[Hathradic States]

I put it to you: Should schools be allowed to turn away prospective students because they are pregnant or single parents? I'm sure you can guess my answer.

If they are funded by the government, no. If they are private schools, then they can go ahead and do what they want.

[Nazis in Space]

Because the private sector can not provide schooling? There would be no demand for schooling if the Government steps out of education?
Also, the world's 50 best universities are 95% private ones.

The existence of private schools shows that the government allows for private schools to exist.

Therefore, the government doesn't have to 'Step Out' of education for private schools to take over, private schools would do so automatically if they could. So sez the market. Curiously, they don't.

Private schools nigh-universally rely on government support of various sorts - straight funding, tax breaks, etc. - to remain competitive.

Historically, absense of government-provided education doesn't equate to universal private education, but rather, to very limited education available only to the richer tiers of society, and consequently, a significant reduction, and occasionally outright elimination of social mobility.

I'm afraid your ideological argument is both, staggeringly inconsistent with its own base, but also flies straight in the face of reality and precedence.

[Nazis in Space]

I put it to you: Should schools be allowed to turn away prospective students because they are pregnant or single parents? I'm sure you can guess my answer.

If they are funded by the government, no. If they are private schools, then they can go ahead and do what they want.

Why?

Society maintains a set of norms that aren't to be broken, regardless of who provides the funding. Corporations aren't allowed to arrange death matches between handsomely paid employees for the entertainment of the staff - that'd be considered murder, and is illegal. Restaurants aren't allowed to tell people 'No, you don't get to eat here, we don't like your skin colour'. That, too, is illegal.

And not only are these things illegal, they should be illegal, because adhering to basic social norms is to be standard, regardless of the finances involved.

Exactly the same applies to schools. They should not, and in civilised countries do not get to reject people based on their skin colour, religion, or marital status of teens with kids.

[Nazis in Space]

Seriously? How many teachers, whether leftwing or rightwing, try to indoctrinate their students? History lessons ( for example ) are particularly convenient for a teacher's biases.

I find it wrong that someone should be forced to pay for someone else's education any way. But being forced to pay so your children can be indoctrinated in a way that will anger you? That's repugnant.

You'll of course be able to explain how private schools - the majority of which tends to be provided by churches - will somehow not ideologically indoctrinate, especially in your ideal world, where they can do whatever the fuck they want to without any oversight or standards to adhere to, when publicly funded schools - which generally have to follow basic guidelines concerning neutrality and all, and which in the countries the majority of users here belong to, would've a staff comin from a multi-party, multi-viewpoint background, something private schools would, once again, not have to adhere to, cherry-picking personnel based on the owner's ideological preferences - apparently do.

How's it like, living at right angles to reality? I imagine it causes some dizzyness in the head...

[Eviliatopia]

Of course, government should get out of the way and let the minority force its beliefs on the majority. That's so much better.

That is what happens with public education.
How would that happen in private education? I decide where my children are going. No one forces me to put them in a certain school rather than in another.

But the principle of universal education is that every child deserves an education and nothing but the state can fulfill that.

Unsourced bullshit. I've got an example of the indoctrination I was talking about.

I expect you'll now come with some Economic Libertarian bs about everyone being richer if government would get out of the way, and all I can say is: save your breath.

You refuse the debate? Fine.

Universities and schools are different things.

Maybe we should use the university example to figure out what would happen in schools.

In any case, I find that threadjack hard to believe. Source please!

Shit! I can't find that source anymore, but the thing clearly said that the best universities are private ones in the US, the UK and Japan. Also, common knowledge.
The only public university in the list is a french university. It ranked 50th, the media cried about that a lot of time here.

It was like "OMG we've got the most public education system in the western world but we do jack shit how is it possible??"

Ridiculous.

[Unchecked Expansion]

Shit! I can't find that source anymore, but the thing clearly said that the best universities are private ones in the US, the UK and Japan. Also, common knowledge.
The only public university in the list is a french university. It ranked 50th, the media cried about that a lot of time here.

It was like "OMG we've got the most public education system in the western world but we do jack shit how is it possible??"

Ridiculous.

Universities in the UK get a ton of government funding, especially as students are entitled to financial support from the government. Although they're private, they're supported by the state.
Government is a big customer of university research too.

[AiliailiA]

Of course, government should get out of the way and let the minority force its beliefs on the majority. That's so much better.

That is what happens with public education.

That was in reply to your comment about democracy. You said democracy forces the beliefs of the majority on the minority, and I said that's better than the minority forcing their beliefs on the majority. Which is what happens in states without democracy.

Cue some fairy-farts about how the state shouldn't exist.

How would that happen in private education? I decide where my children are going. No one forces me to put them in a certain school rather than in another.

Don't like the local public school? Move.
Only that would cost money wouldn't it. Unlike private school. *cough*

But the principle of universal education is that every child deserves an education and nothing but the state can fulfill that.

Unsourced bullshit. I've got an example of the indoctrination I was talking about.

It may be unsourced (since I'm speaking of a principle) but I notice how you snipped out the sentences following that, which questioned the ability of charities to provide private education if the state were to step out. And stated the bleeding obvious fact that not all parents could afford private education.

I expect you'll now come with some Economic Libertarian bs about everyone being richer if government would get out of the way, and all I can say is: save your breath.

You refuse the debate? Fine.

Don't come with it, because it's off topic. In fact, it's off topic in any thread dealing with anything which actually happens. It is in a word bullshit.

Universities and schools are different things.

Maybe we should use the university example to figure out what would happen in schools.

Yes, maybe we should. Maybe would should look at how many adults complete a tertiary degree when it's not funded by the state (which btw it is partially in the US), sometimes with private scholarships (charity), sometimes with financial assistance from their parents, and sometimes by paying themselves.

Maybe we should use that to estimate what proportion of children would get a basic education in school if it was left up to their parent's ability to pay, plus some charity, plus their own earnings.

About half, would you say?

In any case, I find that threadjack hard to believe. Source please!

Shit! I can't find that source anymore, but the thing clearly said that the best universities are private ones in the US, the UK and Japan. Also, common knowledge.
The only public university in the list is a french university. It ranked 50th, the media cried about that a lot of time here.

If one in 50 universities was entirely publicly funded, that would be 5%. But you said "95% privately funded" which assumes that none of the other 49 get any public funding, which is a ludicrous claim.

Even by your poor recollection of the source you can't find, you're full of shit.

It was like "OMG we've got the most public education system in the western world but we do jack shit how is it possible??"

Ridiculous.

Well, we agree on that. You ARE ridiculous.

[Ovisterra]

I love this country.

[Greed and Death]

I need to know what school to pick up girls without kids, if we allowed pregnant women and single mothers in I might take the wrong one home.

[Ashmoria]

So let me get this straight, the school breaks the law and it's recommended that it apologize?

Catholic church is still above the law in this country. That is why the state decided to saddle itself with 90% of the costs of compensation for Clerical Sex Abuse about ten years ago.

whoa

is that true?

that is so wrong. the miscreant should bear the total burden for the punishment of the crimes committed.

[Ifreann]

I need to know what school to pick up girls without kids, if we allowed pregnant women and single mothers in I might take the wrong one home.

It shouldn't be difficult to pick up on the gossip about who has a sprog.

[Ashmoria]

the truly sick thing being that the #1 big time focus of the catholic church is "right to life". this girl could have had an abortion but she didnt.

shouldnt that be celebrated?

[Ifreann]

Note: Paying attention to the radio has confirmed that the principal, in a letter to this girl, claimed a duty to protect the honourable majority in his school, in those words.

---

the truly sick thing being that the #1 big time focus of the catholic church is "right to life". this girl could have had an abortion but she didnt.

shouldnt that be celebrated?

Abortion is completely illegal in Ireland. Catholics here aren't likely to applaud someone for not going to the difficulty of travelling to England and arranging for an abortion.

[Ovisterra]

Note: Paying attention to the radio has confirmed that the principal, in a letter to this girl, claimed a duty to protect the honourable majority in his school, in those words.

He sounds like an asshole.

Actually, never mind that last statement. He is an asshole.

[Greed and Death]

I need to know what school to pick up girls without kids, if we allowed pregnant women and single mothers in I might take the wrong one home.

It shouldn't be difficult to pick up on the gossip about who has a sprog.

I really do not want to listen to highschool girl gossip.

[Ifreann]

It shouldn't be difficult to pick up on the gossip about who has a sprog.

I really do not want to listen to highschool girl gossip.

Sometimes that's the price you have to pay to pick up the right one.

[Greed and Death]

I really do not want to listen to highschool girl gossip.

Sometimes that's the price you have to pay to pick up the right one.

Well as long as this school keeps said policy in place I can go there to pick up the girls.

[Ashmoria]

Note: Paying attention to the radio has confirmed that the principal, in a letter to this girl, claimed a duty to protect the honourable majority in his school, in those words.

---

the truly sick thing being that the #1 big time focus of the catholic church is "right to life". this girl could have had an abortion but she didnt.

shouldnt that be celebrated?

Abortion is completely illegal in Ireland. Catholics here aren't likely to applaud someone for not going to the difficulty of travelling to England and arranging for an abortion.

because y'all like to pretend that thousands of good irish catholic girls dont do that every year?

[Ethel mermania]

I need to know what school to pick up girls without kids, if we allowed pregnant women and single mothers in I might take the wrong one home.

wouldnt you rather pick up girls with kids? after all, you know they are not virgins.

[Ifreann]

Note: Paying attention to the radio has confirmed that the principal, in a letter to this girl, claimed a duty to protect the honourable majority in his school, in those words.

---

Abortion is completely illegal in Ireland. Catholics here aren't likely to applaud someone for not going to the difficulty of travelling to England and arranging for an abortion.

because y'all like to pretend that thousands of good irish catholic girls dont do that every year?

Nah, because they like to pretend that never even considering abortion is just the way things are done and not worthy of mention.

[Ethel mermania]

the truly sick thing being that the #1 big time focus of the catholic church is "right to life". this girl could have had an abortion but she didnt.

shouldnt that be celebrated?

you would think.

[Ashmoria]

because y'all like to pretend that thousands of good irish catholic girls dont do that every year?

Nah, because they like to pretend that never even considering abortion is just the way things are done and not worthy of mention.

what are the chances that now that the people in charge have been notified that this school is breaking the law they will tell the school to cut it out?

[Great Nepal]

Its a private school, so they were fully justified in rejecting her. Doesn't make second one any less of dick move though.

[Ifreann]

Nah, because they like to pretend that never even considering abortion is just the way things are done and not worthy of mention.

what are the chances that now that the people in charge have been notified that this school is breaking the law they will tell the school to cut it out?

I expect that the Dept. of Education will investigate, find the place to be shit, and make it change. Might take a while between bureaucracy and all that and the principal seeming like quite the asshole.