Question to Godless Heathens: What Made You Become Atheist?

[Naughtania]

Precisely. There is no reason why people could not lead life well, even without the very concept of religion existing.

You do not need religion to lead a good life, if your talking about what makes you understand whats right and wrong. One could argue society implants the idea of right and wrong onto you. Even as a child though we understand if I take this away from someone and they cry I feel bad inside. I think the question is what is the basis of why we distinguish between whats right and wrong? What is morality? Are we to assume we just understand it, then you should ask the question why does humanity just understand that concept?

Humanity does not understand morality, as morality is unfortunately relative. Let the philosophers debate, and society build a (preferably liberal) concensus. It's the best we have.

Which is one reason why religion never appealed to me. Absolute belief in the word of a fictional being god is against all moral logic.

[Grave_n_idle]

Precisely. There is no reason why people could not lead life well, even without the very concept of religion existing.

You do not need religion to lead a good life, if your talking about what makes you understand whats right and wrong. One could argue society implants the idea of right and wrong onto you. Even as a child though we understand if I take this away from someone and they cry I feel bad inside. I think the question is what is the basis of why we distinguish between whats right and wrong? What is morality? Are we to assume we just understand it, then you should ask the question why does humanity just understand that concept?

Because 'morality' is really just a fancy word for pragmatic behaviour.

I don't murder you, because I don't want you to murder me. etc.

We 'just understand the concept' because we can all see how we don't like the idea of certain things happening to us, and we can generally understand the concept that agreeing collectively not to do them benefits us too.

[Free Soviets]

Finding, on examination, that you have no desire to be part of any religion or to worship any god does fill the hole, yes.

---

What hole? I keep hearing about this 'hole' from theists.
I spend my time reading about philosophy and politics.

now you are hearing about a different hole from atheists. a hole in your stated logic. it looks like you are using the argument:
if the bible is false, there is no god.
the bible is false.
therefore there is no god.

but the first premise is clearly very weak. if the dreamtime religions of australia were true, the bible would be false too, for example. so any argument based on that premise won't get you anywhere. and if we try to fix it by switching it around (if there is no god, the bible is false), we just wind up affirming the consequent. which is even worse.

[Genivaria]

You do not need religion to lead a good life, if your talking about what makes you understand whats right and wrong. One could argue society implants the idea of right and wrong onto you. Even as a child though we understand if I take this away from someone and they cry I feel bad inside. I think the question is what is the basis of why we distinguish between whats right and wrong? What is morality? Are we to assume we just understand it, then you should ask the question why does humanity just understand that concept?

Because 'morality' is really just a fancy word for pragmatic behaviour.

I don't murder you, because I don't want you to murder me. etc.

We 'just understand the concept' because we can all see how we don't like the idea of certain things happening to us, and we can generally understand the concept that agreeing collectively not to do them benefits us too.

An expanse on the Golden Rule basically.

[Risottia]

People who don't know anything about science should refrain from talking about it.

There is always basis for how theoretical science comes about. It would be illogical for you to tell me that the Big Bang Theory is correct.

It's correct as far as scientifical theories go.

Since it is a theory, you can not tell me it happened, because you don't know, you just can only generalize and assume.

You really don't know what "theory" means, right?
A THEORY is a logically consistent set of statements, based on observation and supported by the replicable result of experiments.
What you're talking about is a HYPOTHESIS, or a CONJECTURE.

Words have a meaning.

[ReVaQ]

So, what was it that pushed you over the line into atheism?

I believed in God for 14 years until I got interested in the bible and decided to read a few chapters. That fateful day I saw all the contradictions, and the nonsense, and the corruption the Bible had. So I became an atheist. And all it took was reading the Bible.

All it took for me is by slowly decrease the amount of visits to church, and after getting an A+ in Evolution. After then i started to think sceptically about anything given or said as a fact. Then I was introduced to Christopher Hitchens & Richard Dawkins and read some book of them.

tl;dr Disinterest in church ---> Got educated in Evolution ---> Started to excercise sceptical thinking ---> Google ---> CH & RD ---> Highway to Atheism

Because 'morality' is really just a fancy word for pragmatic behaviour.

I don't murder you, because I don't want you to murder me. etc.

We 'just understand the concept' because we can all see how we don't like the idea of certain things happening to us, and we can generally understand the concept that agreeing collectively not to do them benefits us too.

An expanse on the Golden Rule basically.

The Platinum Rule is better imo
"Treat others as they want to be treated."

[Samuraikoku]

now you are hearing about a different hole from atheists. a hole in your stated logic. it looks like you are using the argument:
if the bible is false, there is no god.
the bible is false.
therefore there is no god.

but the first premise is clearly very weak. if the dreamtime religions of australia were true, the bible would be false too, for example. so any argument based on that premise won't get you anywhere. and if we try to fix it by switching it around (if there is no god, the bible is false), we just wind up affirming the consequent. which is even worse.

I find no reason to believe in either Christianism, or any other set of beliefs, Abrahamic or otherwise.

[The Alma Mater]

You do not need religion to lead a good life, if your talking about what makes you understand whats right and wrong. One could argue society implants the idea of right and wrong onto you. Even as a child though we understand if I take this away from someone and they cry I feel bad inside. I think the question is what is the basis of why we distinguish between whats right and wrong? What is morality? Are we to assume we just understand it, then you should ask the question why does humanity just understand that concept?

I believe that our natural empathy plays a part.
Doing good feels good, doing bad feels bad.

That still suggests you believe in a universal concept of "good" or "bad".
There is not much that indicates that this actually exists. Morals, ethics (and esthetics, which is relevant) vary wildly throughout the world and throughout history. What is good according to A is bad according to B, neutral to C etc. etc.

That we are currently slowly move towards something resembling a concensus on morality is largely due to massmedia and international contacts. But even with those massive differences still exist.

[Grave_n_idle]

I believe that our natural empathy plays a part.
Doing good feels good, doing bad feels bad.

That still suggests you believe in a universal concept of "good" or "bad".
There is not much that indicates that this actually exists. Morals, ethics (and esthetics, which is relevant) vary wildly throughout the world and throughout history. What is good according to A is bad according to B, neutral to C etc. etc.

Not really. There are really some fairly basic rules, and the 'differences' are largely just questions of levels of tolerance, and who counts as 'one of us'.

[Alikhaa]

I became an atheist when I was ten, as I recall. My family was (used to be!) vaguely religious and I followed along. But then the big questions hit me - why did God create us? It's like we were created to endure all these trials and horrors and if we don't endure them well enough, God puts us in hell? How fair is that, when God created us in the first place and threw all these trials and horrors at us?

So, I came to the conclusion that if God existed, it wasn't a nice God. So since the God of my religion (who was supposedly a nice God) didn't exist, then there was no point in worshiping. Besides, I reckoned myself somewhat of a tragic rebel, and if God wasn't nice then fine, I'd be on the losing underdog side of the spiritual revolution - I'd stick to my self-made morals and to the truth no matter what. After that it was a gradual decline into agnostic atheism.

Later, though, when I was twenty-one, I came back to God. In those eleven years I'd spent a lot of time reading philosophy - mostly existential philosophy. I had a pretty cushy, comfortable life, and I never really felt bothered by anything real. But after I started discovering my spirituality (first it was spirituality, then it was exploring that spirituality, then it was investigating different sorts of religions, and so on) I started being bothered by a lot of things going on and started digging myself out of the mental/spiritual ditch that I had been lounging in for so long. The main thing that caused me to wake up was personal pride in myself (unfortunately). I had these tenets that I imagined I stuck to - ideals such as intellectual consistency and personal responsibility to seek truth. So, since I imagined that I stuck to those ideals... I had to, or else deceive myself, or else think of myself without those ideals. I've tried to nix that arrogance since, but I realize it was a useful tool back then and so far I've been incapable. Still though, I believe in a personal responsibility to constantly develop for the better, so maybe I'll be able to be properly humble one day, by the will of God.

My answer to those big questions that made me become an atheist in the first place have developed aided by my learning through those years, and the questions themselves have evolved and sprung so many more. I'm confident, though, that if a person devotes themselves to seeking the truth objectively as I had, that they will arrive by an answer to whatever questions they have. Of course, a large part of seeking the truth about God is praying to God. You don't know what God to pray to, sure - but you can pray to the infinite consciousness that created and sustains all existence and is infinitely more powerful than anything else that exists. The "most high", so to imagine... After all, that's surely the only thing really worthy of worship, and surely it would be able to show you the truth in small ways if you asked sincerely enough and were willing to look.

I know that God guided me, and it wasn't my own worth or intellectual capacity that caused me to happen upon this sense of spiritual truth and ultimate justice. So I can't think that I know the truth about everything. But at this point, I can be open-minded to truth because I know that whatever is true is true reality and no delusion of any kind can take precedence over reality. Since I don't believe God is a delusion, why be afraid of losing "faith"? True belief should stand up, and indeed be strengthened by, intellectual inquiry.

Long post.

[Chinese Regions]

I pray for your souls.

[The Alma Mater]

That still suggests you believe in a universal concept of "good" or "bad".
There is not much that indicates that this actually exists. Morals, ethics (and esthetics, which is relevant) vary wildly throughout the world and throughout history. What is good according to A is bad according to B, neutral to C etc. etc.

Not really. There are really some fairly basic rules, and the 'differences' are largely just questions of levels of tolerance, and who counts as 'one of us'.

Examples of such basic rules ? Things like killing, slavery, rape, cannibalism etc. have all had their civilisations who saw nothing whatsoever wrong with them - even saw them as noble and praiseworthy.

[Free Soviets]

now you are hearing about a different hole from atheists. a hole in your stated logic. it looks like you are using the argument:
if the bible is false, there is no god.
the bible is false.
therefore there is no god.

but the first premise is clearly very weak. if the dreamtime religions of australia were true, the bible would be false too, for example. so any argument based on that premise won't get you anywhere. and if we try to fix it by switching it around (if there is no god, the bible is false), we just wind up affirming the consequent. which is even worse.

I find no reason to believe in either Christianism, or any other set of beliefs, Abrahamic or otherwise.

and that seems like a fine argument. but it is a very different one than simply having read the bible.

[Free Soviets]

Not really. There are really some fairly basic rules, and the 'differences' are largely just questions of levels of tolerance, and who counts as 'one of us'.

Examples of such basic rules ? Things like killing, slavery, rape, cannibalism etc. have all had their civilisations who saw nothing whatsoever wrong with them - even saw them as noble and praiseworthy.

not 'within the group'

[Grave_n_idle]

Not really. There are really some fairly basic rules, and the 'differences' are largely just questions of levels of tolerance, and who counts as 'one of us'.

Examples of such basic rules ? Things like killing, slavery, rape, cannibalism etc. have all had their civilisations who saw nothing whatsoever wrong with them - even saw them as noble and praiseworthy.

Indeed. Provided they happened to other people.

[Samuraikoku]

I pray for your souls.

I lost mine. Happened to have seen it somewhere?

Maybe I'll ask Shao Kahn, he probably nabbed it again.

[Grave_n_idle]

Of course, a large part of seeking the truth about God is praying to God. You don't know what God to pray to, sure - but you can pray to the infinite consciousness that created and sustains all existence and is infinitely more powerful than anything else that exists. The "most high", so to imagine...

Obvious logical flaw - assuming that the answer to the question of whether or not gods exist...can (only) be answered by asking a god.

If you've made the leap that you're willing to ask some entity... you've already assumed the existence of said entity, and thus already answered the question YOURSELF.

From that point on, it doesn't matter what answer you get - you've already decided what answer you'll get.

[Alikhaa]

Of course, a large part of seeking the truth about God is praying to God. You don't know what God to pray to, sure - but you can pray to the infinite consciousness that created and sustains all existence and is infinitely more powerful than anything else that exists. The "most high", so to imagine...

Obvious logical flaw - assuming that the answer to the question of whether or not gods exist...can (only) be answered by asking a god.

If you've made the leap that you're willing to ask some entity... you've already assumed the existence of said entity, and thus already answered the question YOURSELF.

From that point on, it doesn't matter what answer you get - you've already decided what answer you'll get.

Not entirely true. You don't have to believe in God to pray to God. It's like standing outside a closed bathroom stall asking if anyone's inside.

[Farnhamia]

Obvious logical flaw - assuming that the answer to the question of whether or not gods exist...can (only) be answered by asking a god.

If you've made the leap that you're willing to ask some entity... you've already assumed the existence of said entity, and thus already answered the question YOURSELF.

From that point on, it doesn't matter what answer you get - you've already decided what answer you'll get.

Not entirely true. You don't have to believe in God to pray to God. It's like standing outside a closed bathroom stall asking if anyone's inside.

One can, but in your case, you've assumed Something is in there: "... you can pray to the infinite consciousness that created and sustains all existence and is infinitely more powerful than anything else that exists. The "most high", so to imagine... "

[Alikhaa]

Yes... so to imagine.

You're really just looking for ways to support your own hypothesis in your explanation instead of reading what I've actually said. But that's fine, I understand. Off to a final.

[Grave_n_idle]

Obvious logical flaw - assuming that the answer to the question of whether or not gods exist...can (only) be answered by asking a god.

If you've made the leap that you're willing to ask some entity... you've already assumed the existence of said entity, and thus already answered the question YOURSELF.

From that point on, it doesn't matter what answer you get - you've already decided what answer you'll get.

Not entirely true. You don't have to believe in God to pray to God. It's like standing outside a closed bathroom stall asking if anyone's inside.

No, it's not. You sketched out the question process, yourself - "you can pray to the infinite consciousness that created and sustains all existence and is infinitely more powerful than anything else that exists". You convinced yourself there was a godlike being, and then asked that godlike being if there were any godlike beings.

It's an entirely unreliable methodology, since it's entirely self-fulfilling.

[Ifreann]

Not entirely true. You don't have to believe in God to pray to God. It's like standing outside a closed bathroom stall asking if anyone's inside.

One can, but in your case, you've assumed Something is in there: "... you can pray to the infinite consciousness that created and sustains all existence and is infinitely more powerful than anything else that exists. The "most high", so to imagine... "

I'd certainly like to be sure that such an entity wasn't in a bathroom stall before I went in.

[Grave_n_idle]

One can, but in your case, you've assumed Something is in there: "... you can pray to the infinite consciousness that created and sustains all existence and is infinitely more powerful than anything else that exists. The "most high", so to imagine... "

I'd certainly like to be sure that such an entity wasn't in a bathroom stall before I went in.

God watches you poo.

*nods*

[Ifreann]

I'd certainly like to be sure that such an entity wasn't in a bathroom stall before I went in.

God watches you poo.

*nods*

I can only hope that my facial expressions are funny enough that he doesn't smite me for the smell.

[Vloskovia]

When the 2011 Japanese earthquake/tsunami happened, these pictures kept popping up all over the web with the caption "Pray for Japan". Then I thought: Hold on - Why should I pray, because if "God loves everyone", then why did he allow this to happen? And what about Haiti, the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, etc... The list goes on. Also, why isn't he punishing the pedo-priests? And how did he create the world only a few thousand years ago when there is plenty of scientific evidence to contradict this claim? Again, the list goes on.
Eventually I came to the conclusion that god was man-made and used to get people to follow others (the church) with the threat of punishment by god if they did not comply.