NATION

PASSWORD

Is democracy the only good form of government?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Atlannia
Senator
 
Posts: 4044
Founded: Mar 16, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Atlannia » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:47 am

that whole thing about partitioning Russia got me thinking, about this specifically

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number

The theory is that for primates you can link ideal troupe number to brain size, beyond that number their stupid primate brains can't really identify anything as a troupe member on the same level, like it won't bother memorizing where it likes to be groomed specifically or its favourite termite species to eat (primates eat termites right?) anyway the interesting part is supposedly we have a limit like that too, it's about 150. Like, imgainge everything you know about your best friend, or even a friend, now imagine knowing all that about everyone in your country, or even your town. Beyond that you don't really see them as people, it's like that depressing Stalin quote "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"
So, I guess what I'm saying is that if you split everyone into groups of 150 actual real democracy might be possible, like politicians might be less inclined to screw over people if they have to deal with them every day on a face to face basis, hell people might be inclined to actually be nice to each other, how crazy is that right?

(pretty crazy because implementing something like this is nowhere near feasible)
...!?!

User avatar
Ecans
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1155
Founded: Mar 04, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Ecans » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:06 am

Democracy requires (among other things) a well educated population in order to work...or at least a large percentage must be educated. Ignorant people fall easily for populist politicians who promise everything and deliver "one man, one vote, one time".
We are a liberal Democracy with many vocal, sometimes disruptive and often smelly opposition groups. These are tolerated with amused smiles and the occasional application of a well-placed baton.

User avatar
Prussia-Steinbach
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22386
Founded: Mar 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:18 am

Ecans wrote:Democracy requires (among other things) a well educated population in order to work...or at least a large percentage must be educated. Ignorant people fall easily for populist politicians who promise everything and deliver "one man, one vote, one time".

Thank you! That's what I have been saying the whole time. Democracy does not work without an educated, intellgent, informed populace.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


User avatar
The United Soviet Socialist Republic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17944
Founded: Aug 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The United Soviet Socialist Republic » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:19 am

Ecans wrote:Democracy requires (among other things) a well educated population in order to work...or at least a large percentage must be educated. Ignorant people fall easily for populist politicians who promise everything and deliver "one man, one vote, one time".

Oh my God yes! I totally agree.
Gay and Proudand also a brony
Political Compass:Left: 7.76, Authoritarian: 5.6
I am: Fascist/Corporatist on economy,
Conservative on social issues(Support same sex marriage),
Anti secularist on religion,
Anti-Republican on government,
Interventionist/Imperialist on international issues

User avatar
Prussia-Steinbach
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22386
Founded: Mar 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:21 am

The United Soviet Socialist Republic wrote:
Ecans wrote:Democracy requires (among other things) a well educated population in order to work...or at least a large percentage must be educated. Ignorant people fall easily for populist politicians who promise everything and deliver "one man, one vote, one time".

Oh my God yes! I totally agree.

Funny. Are you actually a Communist, or Socialist?
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


User avatar
Indira
Minister
 
Posts: 3339
Founded: Feb 02, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Indira » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:51 pm

Kalkutium wrote:If you think so is it right to instill democracy on nations by force.


It's hard to see how you could make a better, fairer system, but no it should not be forced.

User avatar
Greater Evil Imperial Japanese Dystopia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6930
Founded: Jun 22, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Evil Imperial Japanese Dystopia » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:56 pm

Kalkutium wrote:If you think so is it right to instill democracy on nations by force.


No, democracy is not a good form,
No, it should not be forced upon anyone either.
    Currently warring.
Military, including paramilitaries: uncounted; numerous warring factions (currently state of war)
Link to Tracker I-II-III-DERP!
Compass
Power comes only from the barrel of a gun - Mao Zedong
Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. - Napoleon Bonaparte
DEFCON:
[0] Nuclear Armaggedon Inevitable, as well as Defend Reichland from Invasion!
Azrael wrote:Except that their entire appearance is a ruse!
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:You, I must admit, are a smart Commie. :clap:
Damanucus wrote:... better ones again.

User avatar
Oceanic people
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 146
Founded: Jan 25, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

NO!

Postby Oceanic people » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:05 pm

Not by a long shot! Democracy is a necesssarily degenerate form of government. The United States, for instance, was not created as a democracy but a Republic. It is the residue of our once great Republic that has enabled this country to last as long as it has. Push to repeal the 17th Amendment and restore the Republic! Write your Congressmen and Senators today! :clap:

User avatar
The Nuclear Fist
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33214
Founded: May 02, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Nuclear Fist » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:06 pm

Oceanic people wrote:Not by a long shot! Democracy is a necesssarily degenerate form of government. The United States, for instance, was not created as a democracy but a Republic. It is the residue of our once great Republic that has enabled this country to last as long as it has. Push to repeal the 17th Amendment and restore the Republic! Write your Congressmen and Senators today! :clap:

Have you ever lived in an undemocratic country?
[23:24] <Marquesan> I have the feeling that all the porn videos you watch are like...set to Primus' music, Ulysses.
Farnhamia wrote:You're getting a little too fond of the jerkoff motions.
And you touch the distant beaches with tales of brave Ulysses. . .
THE ABSOLUTTM MADMAN ESCAPES JUSTICE ONCE MORE

User avatar
Grenville
Secretary
 
Posts: 29
Founded: Dec 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Grenville » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:32 pm

mixed blessing.

I've won elections, it's pretty gratifying to see that your country is democratic. That good citizens make good decisions... But sometimes, some citizens, in their ignorance from the political world, elect the wrong people based on dirty ads. That's pretty sad, I hope democracies can perfectionate.
Last edited by Grenville on Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
The USOT
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5862
Founded: Mar 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The USOT » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:56 pm

Oceanic people wrote:Not by a long shot! Democracy is a necesssarily degenerate form of government. The United States, for instance, was not created as a democracy but a Republic. It is the residue of our once great Republic that has enabled this country to last as long as it has. Push to repeal the 17th Amendment and restore the Republic! Write your Congressmen and Senators today! :clap:

The amount of times I read somebody saying "its not a democracy but a republic"...

Republics can be democracies, and indeed democracies can indeed work in a republican system, like how the US has always been. Democracy doesnt immediatly = Athenian democracy, and indeed the ancient greeks did not have final say on the creation of democracy and its evolution, as they themselves did not invent it (dispite modern misconception) with historical evidence of even Mesopotamia practicing democracy.
Eco-Friendly Green Cyborg Santa Claus

Contrary to the propaganda, we live in probably the least materialistic culture in history. If we cared about the things of the world, we would treat them quite differently. We would be concerned with their materiality. We would be interested in their beginnings and their ends, before and after they left our grasp.

Peter Timmerman, “Defending Materialism"

User avatar
Prussia-Steinbach
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22386
Founded: Mar 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:27 am

The USOT wrote:
Oceanic people wrote:Not by a long shot! Democracy is a necesssarily degenerate form of government. The United States, for instance, was not created as a democracy but a Republic. It is the residue of our once great Republic that has enabled this country to last as long as it has. Push to repeal the 17th Amendment and restore the Republic! Write your Congressmen and Senators today! :clap:

The amount of times I read somebody saying "its not a democracy but a republic"...

Republics can be democracies, and indeed democracies can indeed work in a republican system, like how the US has always been. Democracy doesnt immediatly = Athenian democracy, and indeed the ancient greeks did not have final say on the creation of democracy and its evolution, as they themselves did not invent it (dispite modern misconception) with historical evidence of even Mesopotamia practicing democracy.

It is a federal republic, a Union of fifty sovereign States, republics.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69788
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:42 am

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
The USOT wrote:The amount of times I read somebody saying "its not a democracy but a republic"...

Republics can be democracies, and indeed democracies can indeed work in a republican system, like how the US has always been. Democracy doesnt immediatly = Athenian democracy, and indeed the ancient greeks did not have final say on the creation of democracy and its evolution, as they themselves did not invent it (dispite modern misconception) with historical evidence of even Mesopotamia practicing democracy.

It is a federal republic, a Union of fifty sovereign States, republics.

YES! The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
Image

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69788
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:42 am

Prussia-Steinbach wrote:
The USOT wrote:The amount of times I read somebody saying "its not a democracy but a republic"...

Republics can be democracies, and indeed democracies can indeed work in a republican system, like how the US has always been. Democracy doesnt immediatly = Athenian democracy, and indeed the ancient greeks did not have final say on the creation of democracy and its evolution, as they themselves did not invent it (dispite modern misconception) with historical evidence of even Mesopotamia practicing democracy.

It is a federal republic, a Union of fifty sovereign States, republics.

YES! The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
Image

User avatar
Astrolinium
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36603
Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Astrolinium » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:46 am

There is no such thing as a good form of government. Only ones that are less bad.

And before someone gets the wrong idea about my views, anarchy is even worse.
The Sublime Island Kingdom of Astrolinium
Ilia Franchisco Attore, King Attorio Maldive III
North Carolina | NSIndex Page | Embassies
Pop: 3,082 | Tech: MT | DEFCON: 5-4-3-2-1
SEE YOU SPACE COWBOY...
About Me: Ravenclaw, Gay, Cis Male, 5’4”.
"Don't you forget about me."

Ex-Delegate of Ankh Mauta | NSG Sodomy Club
Minor Acolyte of the Vast Jewlluminati Conspiracy™

User avatar
Lyrantea
Attaché
 
Posts: 78
Founded: Apr 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lyrantea » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:51 am

No to both.
[color=#0000FF][b]Please disregard all posts on the forum made by this account. [/b][/color]

User avatar
Kronikta
Envoy
 
Posts: 231
Founded: Feb 29, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Kronikta » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:15 am

Man is flawed, thus any government of men is flawed. However, there are some forms of government that are better than others. I personally believe that the purpose of the government is to protect the rights of the people, and as far as I can tell a Republic is the best at doing that, because in a true Democracy the People are not restrained. So if one is able to get more than one half of the group of people to believe a certain thing, then it becomes Law.

Types of Government Explained - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4r0VUybeXY - I found this video very interesting and helpful.

User avatar
Alexlantis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12194
Founded: Jun 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Alexlantis » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:18 am

It's the best form of government we've found so far. However, it shouldn't be instilled by force unless the people want it.
"What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his soul?" -Jesus Christ

Nation does not necessarily reflect political views.
Economic Left/Right: -7.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.00
INTP/INTJ
Writer, high school student, Democratic Socialist, vaguely agnostic Christian of some sort (maybe), Libertarian.

Foxtropica's NS cousin, Samuraikoku's Sancho Panza
Individuality-ness wrote:You are Alex, NSG's writer and lead procrastinator. *nods* :P

User avatar
Uggarah
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 12
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Uggarah » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:21 am

I am going to say that countries tend to deserve the government that they are given.
This country is heaven, in the spiritual sense of the word. And I say, we prefer to die in heaven than survive in hell. - Fidel Castro

I am not a liberator. Liberators do not exist. The people liberate themselves. - Che Guevara

User avatar
Isolated China
Minister
 
Posts: 3365
Founded: Aug 02, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Isolated China » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:21 am

Pssh, democracy is for the West and weaklings.
Love is of all passions the strongest, for it attacks simultaneously the head, the heart and the senses.
- Lao Tzu
Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death.
- Sun Tzu
He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever.
- Chinese Proverb
If you are patient in one moment of anger, you will escape a hundred days of sorrow.
- Chinese Proverb

Self-Declared Grammar Communist of the World
TG Box is open for discussing, help, or just flat-out conversation. Feel free to message me anytime!
Oh and I'm back.

User avatar
Prussia-Steinbach
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22386
Founded: Mar 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:08 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Prussia-Steinbach wrote:It is a federal republic, a Union of fifty sovereign States, republics.

YES! The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
Image

That was absolutely brilliant. Laughed out loud when I saw the pony picture.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. ― William S. Burroughs


User avatar
Choronzon
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9936
Founded: Apr 17, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Choronzon » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:14 pm

There is no moral difference between a state. A state is a state is a state, and is illegitimate regardless. Individual leaders, parties, or institutions determine how "good" a government is. A liberal monarch is superior to a Neocon president. King Kucinich is more desirable than President Bush.

User avatar
Isolated China
Minister
 
Posts: 3365
Founded: Aug 02, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Isolated China » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:36 pm

Choronzon wrote:There is no moral difference between a state. A state is a state is a state, and is illegitimate regardless. Individual leaders, parties, or institutions determine how "good" a government is. A liberal monarch is superior to a Neocon president. King Kucinich is more desirable than President Bush.

But Bush invaded Iraq! King Kucinich didn't invade Iraq so obviously there's something wrong with your said country.
Image
Love is of all passions the strongest, for it attacks simultaneously the head, the heart and the senses.
- Lao Tzu
Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death.
- Sun Tzu
He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever.
- Chinese Proverb
If you are patient in one moment of anger, you will escape a hundred days of sorrow.
- Chinese Proverb

Self-Declared Grammar Communist of the World
TG Box is open for discussing, help, or just flat-out conversation. Feel free to message me anytime!
Oh and I'm back.

User avatar
Not Kony Run Uganda
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 133
Founded: Mar 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Not Kony Run Uganda » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:41 pm

You have to think of it as if it's this: "What do the people want?" If a countries people say they want a Democracy, they get a Democracy. They want a Monarchy, you give them a Monarchy, hell if they want a dictatorship, you give them a dictatorship. What they people want, the people get.
Economic Left/Right: -3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.64

User avatar
The Raised Fist
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Feb 17, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Raised Fist » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:42 pm

democracy is a joke, violence the inevitable punchline.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aggicificicerous, Dimetrodon Empire, Dtn, EuroStralia, Gallade, La Xinga, Ottterland, Rary, Southwest America, Techocracy101010, The Jamesian Republic, The Panjshir Valley, The Pirateariat, The Union of Galaxies, Uiiop, Washington Resistance Army

Advertisement

Remove ads

cron