Lynch your boss

[Vault 10]

Your entire point was that rich people we arn't intentionally impoverishing people
My counter very obviously proves that they DO impoverish people for their own gain.

Or, for keeping the company alive.

Hasn't it occurred to you that it might be that it wasn't done merely for the lulz, and the alternative could be the company turning unsustainable?

This is not to say who was right and who was wrong - it's to remind that the auto companies aren't in the best situation at the moment.

[The_pantless_hero]

Ok. Like I said, health care reform is more important than the ending of job/insurance arrangement. There are multiple ways we can cut costs. Some of which I have posted in the mega thread. Yes, Republicans have proposed a couple (or so) completely idiotic plans that would do more harm than good. That doesn't make the Democrats' proposals any better.

I disagree since the Democrat plans are actually attempting to address the problems in the system instead of pet issues and bowing to the industry.

[Shinkadomayaka]

Ok, would you give it a rest. Companies don't HAVE to do anything. They can pay you whatever they want, and complaining (or killing them) is not going to help.

[The_pantless_hero]

That's why our unemployment rate is historically much lower than Europe's for instance.

A change in how unemployment is calculated? (passed down from, I forget if it was the Reagan or Nixon era)

[Sibirsky]

What is absurd is the fact that you are arguing against a system, that has worked so well, in creating a rising standard of living, innovation, and many other benefits.

I argued that companies will cut costs, yes. What does that have to do with health insurance? While, I have nothing against an employer using health care as an incentive to attract talent, the job/insurance marriage is just as absurd as your understanding of basic economics. There is no reason someone's insurance should depend on their job.

Your claims to superior knowledge of economics is refuted by your adherence to a historical perspective as fake as holocaust denial... Free-market has never been innovative, and its adherents have never been inventive... You'd probably do better to look at the real world, instead othe Randian dream-world...

Actually, the real world has proven, time and time again, that the free market is much more innovative, than any alternative. Much better at creating wealth, and a rising standard of living for all. A basic economics book would suggest as much, with evidence from history.

[Risottia]

What about the money and capital those "idle rich" invested in the business? Does the fact that he is risking his own capital does not mean anything?

A lot less than actually producing things.
Because, you see, the idea of investing is that you have 10, risk it, wait without doing anything, and in some time you have your original 10 back, plus another 10 (which would be the Mehrwert). What work did the investor do, that he should be paid for it? Nothing. His money wasn't spent: it just acted like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. But, in exchange for that, he gets eternal rights of property on the Mehrwert that it's produced by the company he initially invested into.

The problem behind the global crisis is just that: finance has become a game played on its own field, becoming an inflation bubble. And it's not the banks and the banks' CEOs who are paying for the bubble they created: it's the productive sectors.

[Sibirsky]

Ok. Like I said, health care reform is more important than the ending of job/insurance arrangement. There are multiple ways we can cut costs. Some of which I have posted in the mega thread. Yes, Republicans have proposed a couple (or so) completely idiotic plans that would do more harm than good. That doesn't make the Democrats' proposals any better.

I disagree since the Democrat plans are actually attempting to address the problems in the system instead of pet issues and bowing to the industry.

They are not addressing cost. Neither one of the sides.

[Sibirsky]

That's why our unemployment rate is historically much lower than Europe's for instance.

A change in how unemployment is calculated? (passed down from, I forget if it was the Reagan or Nixon era)

Yes, but the U-6 (the old rate you are referring to) was still, historically lower than in Western Europe.

[Sibirsky]

What about the money and capital those "idle rich" invested in the business? Does the fact that he is risking his own capital does not mean anything?

A lot less than actually producing things.
Because, you see, the idea of investing is that you have 10, risk it, wait without doing anything, and in some time you have your original 10 back, plus another 10 (which would be the Mehrwert). What work did the investor do, that he should be paid for it? Nothing. His money wasn't spent: it just acted like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. But, in exchange for that, he gets eternal rights of property on the Mehrwert that it's produced by the company he initially invested into.

The problem behind the global crisis is just that: finance has become a game played on its own field, becoming an inflation bubble. And it's not the banks and the banks' CEOs who are paying for the bubble they created: it's the productive sectors.

He had to find the investment. He had to deal with the risk of possibly losing some, or all of his investment. Looking for a profitable investment is the investors job. And he is compensated for it.

[RAHIT RA]

eat the motherfucking rich

[Sibirsky]

eat the motherfucking rich

So we are all out of work

[Tekania]

Actually, the real world has proven, time and time again, that the free market is much more innovative, than any alternative.

Funny, then why have most innovations surfaced in other-than-free-markets?

National Corporatism, Pure Communism and Socialism have proven far more innovative, and produced far more invention than the free-market has ever done... This is mostly because enlightened community interest seeks to innovate; while unenlightned self-interest seeks to hoard...

Much better at creating wealth, and a rising standard of living for all. A basic economics book would suggest as much, with evidence from history.

The appearance of wealth more like it, wealth just appears out of thin-air in such markets, mostly because a whole bunch of people like you are engaging in fraud to make things look better while pointing at your randian economics books....

Rising standard of living? That was a product of heavy industry regulation... God forbid should we go back to the standard of living deregulation provides, horrible working conditions, impoverished wages, dying/diseased workers... No thank you... We has to practically impliment a temporal fascist state in America just to clean up the mess left by the free-market...

[Sibirsky]

Funny, then why have most innovations surfaced in other-than-free-markets?

National Corporatism, Pure Communism and Socialism have proven far more innovative, and produced far more invention than the free-market has ever done... This is mostly because enlightened community interest seeks to innovate; while unenlightned self-interest seeks to hoard...

This is just not true.

The appearance of wealth more like it, wealth just appears out of thin-air in such markets, mostly because a whole bunch of people like you are engaging in fraud to make things look better while pointing at your randian economics books....

Rising standard of living? That was a product of heavy industry regulation... God forbid should we go back to the standard of living deregulation provides, horrible working conditions, impoverished wages, dying/diseased workers... No thank you... We has to practically impliment a temporal fascist state in America just to clean up the mess left by the free-market...

The appearance of wealth, is actually correct. Of course that is because of people like you engaging in fraud. Printing money out of thin air, keeping interest rates artificially low. You know, the Central Planners. People like me are against the Fed, and for at least Auditing it.

[Parthenon]

I'm a liberal. Can I complain? The very rich are getting richer, the middle class is shrinking, and the social safety net is falling apart. I'm keying the next $80k car I see.

You do realize you would be looking at a felony for that? Not some petty misdemeanor bullshit...

Vandalism to an 80k car would generally result in damages beyond the low misdemeanor caps in most states and the crime would most certainly be elevated and enhanced based on hate crime rationale, a motive to attack those in the upper echelons of society.

That being said, I expect you to retract your comments.

I'm sure the rich appreciate you leaping to their defence like a good peasant should.

80k isn't that much...
Hell, I knew a girl back in my undergrad years that drove a brand new range... as a freshman.

[The_pantless_hero]

Ok. Like I said, health care reform is more important than the ending of job/insurance arrangement. There are multiple ways we can cut costs. Some of which I have posted in the mega thread. Yes, Republicans have proposed a couple (or so) completely idiotic plans that would do more harm than good. That doesn't make the Democrats' proposals any better.

I disagree since the Democrat plans are actually attempting to address the problems in the system instead of pet issues and bowing to the industry.

They are not addressing cost. Neither one of the sides.

The Democrats are most certainly addressing cost if you realize we are talking about costs to the people.

[Risottia]

What about the money and capital those "idle rich" invested in the business? Does the fact that he is risking his own capital does not mean anything?

A lot less than actually producing things.
Because, you see, the idea of investing is that you have 10, risk it, wait without doing anything, and in some time you have your original 10 back, plus another 10 (which would be the Mehrwert). What work did the investor do, that he should be paid for it? Nothing. His money wasn't spent: it just acted like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. But, in exchange for that, he gets eternal rights of property on the Mehrwert that it's produced by the company he initially invested into.

The problem behind the global crisis is just that: finance has become a game played on its own field, becoming an inflation bubble. And it's not the banks and the banks' CEOs who are paying for the bubble they created: it's the productive sectors.

He had to find the investment. He had to deal with the risk of possibly losing some, or all of his investment. Looking for a profitable investment is the investors job. And he is compensated for it.

Let's see.
The worker had to find the job. He has to deal everyday with the risk of possibly being injured on his workplace, or even killed. Being alive and working is the worker's job. But he's not compensated for it with an ETERNAL benefit that he can even pass down to his heir (provided the company is not going bankrupt): he has the job (possibily) until he's old enough for retirement, and that's it.

I would find reasonable that the investor's rights would expire after some time. Like when you buy bonds, instead of shares. Bonds have a time limit, don't they?

[The_pantless_hero]

I'm a liberal. Can I complain? The very rich are getting richer, the middle class is shrinking, and the social safety net is falling apart. I'm keying the next $80k car I see.

You do realize you would be looking at a felony for that? Not some petty misdemeanor bullshit...

Vandalism to an 80k car would generally result in damages beyond the low misdemeanor caps in most states and the crime would most certainly be elevated and enhanced based on hate crime rationale, a motive to attack those in the upper echelons of society.

That being said, I expect you to retract your comments.

I'm sure the rich appreciate you leaping to their defence like a good peasant should.

80k isn't that much...
Hell, I knew a girl back in my undergrad years that drove a brand new range... as a freshman.

And I'm quite positive were you anecdote true that she bought it all by herself.

[Sibirsky]

Ok. Like I said, health care reform is more important than the ending of job/insurance arrangement. There are multiple ways we can cut costs. Some of which I have posted in the mega thread. Yes, Republicans have proposed a couple (or so) completely idiotic plans that would do more harm than good. That doesn't make the Democrats' proposals any better.

I disagree since the Democrat plans are actually attempting to address the problems in the system instead of pet issues and bowing to the industry.

They are not addressing cost. Neither one of the sides.

The Democrats are most certainly addressing cost if you realize we are talking about costs to the people.

Not enough of it.

[Parthenon]

I'm a liberal. Can I complain? The very rich are getting richer, the middle class is shrinking, and the social safety net is falling apart. I'm keying the next $80k car I see.

You do realize you would be looking at a felony for that? Not some petty misdemeanor bullshit...

Vandalism to an 80k car would generally result in damages beyond the low misdemeanor caps in most states and the crime would most certainly be elevated and enhanced based on hate crime rationale, a motive to attack those in the upper echelons of society.

That being said, I expect you to retract your comments.

I'm sure the rich appreciate you leaping to their defence like a good peasant should.

80k isn't that much...
Hell, I knew a girl back in my undergrad years that drove a brand new range... as a freshman.

And I'm quite positive were you anecdote true that she bought it all by herself.

Think her dad was a brain surgeon. He drove an aston.

[Sibirsky]

What about the money and capital those "idle rich" invested in the business? Does the fact that he is risking his own capital does not mean anything?

A lot less than actually producing things.
Because, you see, the idea of investing is that you have 10, risk it, wait without doing anything, and in some time you have your original 10 back, plus another 10 (which would be the Mehrwert). What work did the investor do, that he should be paid for it? Nothing. His money wasn't spent: it just acted like a catalyst in a chemical reaction. But, in exchange for that, he gets eternal rights of property on the Mehrwert that it's produced by the company he initially invested into.

The problem behind the global crisis is just that: finance has become a game played on its own field, becoming an inflation bubble. And it's not the banks and the banks' CEOs who are paying for the bubble they created: it's the productive sectors.

He had to find the investment. He had to deal with the risk of possibly losing some, or all of his investment. Looking for a profitable investment is the investors job. And he is compensated for it.

Let's see.
The worker had to find the job. He has to deal everyday with the risk of possibly being injured on his workplace, or even killed. Being alive and working is the worker's job. But he's not compensated for it with an ETERNAL benefit that he can even pass down to his heir (provided the company is not going bankrupt): he has the job (possibily) until he's old enough for retirement, and that's it.

I would find reasonable that the investor's rights would expire after some time. Like when you buy bonds, instead of shares. Bonds have a time limit, don't they?

Yes bonds expire. The risk, to the employee is much lower. Hence, the reward, if the business is a success is also, much lower.

[Sibirsky]

I'm a liberal. Can I complain? The very rich are getting richer, the middle class is shrinking, and the social safety net is falling apart. I'm keying the next $80k car I see.

You do realize you would be looking at a felony for that? Not some petty misdemeanor bullshit...

Vandalism to an 80k car would generally result in damages beyond the low misdemeanor caps in most states and the crime would most certainly be elevated and enhanced based on hate crime rationale, a motive to attack those in the upper echelons of society.

That being said, I expect you to retract your comments.

I'm sure the rich appreciate you leaping to their defence like a good peasant should.

80k isn't that much...
Hell, I knew a girl back in my undergrad years that drove a brand new range... as a freshman.

And I'm quite positive were you anecdote true that she bought it all by herself.

Think her dad was a brain surgeon. He drove an aston.

Eat him, eat him alive!

Except for the fact that he probably provided jobs to middle class people. And paid his fair share of taxes.

[Fartsniffage]

Think her dad was a brain surgeon. He drove an aston.

This runs contrary to the experiences I had with the rich at uni, they all drove pieces of crap.

[Parthenon]

Think her dad was a brain surgeon. He drove an aston.

This runs contrary to the experiences I had with the rich at uni, they all drove pieces of crap.

Sorority girls all drive the big suvs/luxury sedans.

[The_pantless_hero]

Think her dad was a brain surgeon. He drove an aston.

Thank you for proving the point.

[The_pantless_hero]

The Democrats are most certainly addressing cost if you realize we are talking about costs to the people.

Not enough of it.

Far more if they tell Baucus to go fuck himself. Hopefully the realization that no matter what they propose, the Republicans will vote against will inspire them to pass what they wanted in the first place instead of a piece of shit "bipartisan" bill. The true costs of healthcare will not be addressed unless the entire system is yanked up from the ground and completely replaced. Which isn't going to happen immediately.