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Seperates
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Seperates » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:59 pm

Sibirsky wrote:Intentionally obtuse are the regulators. In any field. Testicular cancer coverage for women makes about as much sense as flood insurance in Phoenix, or earthquake insurance on the east coast.


Actually in Arizona and Colorado you do need flood insurance because of flash floods that occur everynow and again. But despite horrible metaphors, you are completely right. Testicular cancer coverage for women makes no sense whatsoever.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

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Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44940
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Anarchy

Postby Sibirsky » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:02 pm

greed and death wrote:
The_pantless_hero wrote:
greed and death wrote:
http://bhopal.bard.edu/resources/docume ... report.pdf

The safety failures were a factor.
But that study is pretty clear it was intentional sabotage.
The main safety factor that might have prevented the tragedy was the refrigeration unit.
But even if that had been in use a clever saboteur could have got around it by disabling the unit.

So let me get this straight. Your excuse for horrible lapses in safety and the primary safety features that would have prevented the tragedy not existing at all is to say some one could have sabotaged it anyway?

"Don't bother putting brakes on cars, some one could cut them anyway."
"Don't bother breakers on outlets, some one could disable them anyway."
"Don't bother putting sprinkler systems in buildings, some one could break them anyway."

Not my excuse, just mentioning the terrible events were caused by a man.
Let see I want to make something break at a place I work at odds say I am going to be able to break it regardless of what safety features are in place, short of armed guards(and even then the whole BS your way through what your doing there part). Safety features are not designed to prevent intentional human intervention, they are designed to prevent accidental events.

Say your car with out breaks scenario. Lets say there is a car with no breaks and a angry school bus driver drives it into a kindergarten, I doubt the breaks would have helped.
who do you focus the blame on. The manufacturer or the man who drove the bus into the kindergarten?


Of course the manufacturer. We sue, and win billions in punitive damages! Then retire on an island.
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

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Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44940
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Anarchy

Postby Sibirsky » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:03 pm

Seperates wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:Intentionally obtuse are the regulators. In any field. Testicular cancer coverage for women makes about as much sense as flood insurance in Phoenix, or earthquake insurance on the east coast.


Actually in Arizona and Colorado you do need flood insurance because of flash floods that occur everynow and again. But despite horrible metaphors, you are completely right. Testicular cancer coverage for women makes no sense whatsoever.


Forgive my massive fail at metaphors. I take the rest of your post as a compliment however. Thank you.
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

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Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:13 pm

Sibirsky wrote:
greed and death wrote:
The_pantless_hero wrote:
greed and death wrote:
http://bhopal.bard.edu/resources/docume ... report.pdf

The safety failures were a factor.
But that study is pretty clear it was intentional sabotage.
The main safety factor that might have prevented the tragedy was the refrigeration unit.
But even if that had been in use a clever saboteur could have got around it by disabling the unit.

So let me get this straight. Your excuse for horrible lapses in safety and the primary safety features that would have prevented the tragedy not existing at all is to say some one could have sabotaged it anyway?

"Don't bother putting brakes on cars, some one could cut them anyway."
"Don't bother breakers on outlets, some one could disable them anyway."
"Don't bother putting sprinkler systems in buildings, some one could break them anyway."

Not my excuse, just mentioning the terrible events were caused by a man.
Let see I want to make something break at a place I work at odds say I am going to be able to break it regardless of what safety features are in place, short of armed guards(and even then the whole BS your way through what your doing there part). Safety features are not designed to prevent intentional human intervention, they are designed to prevent accidental events.

Say your car with out breaks scenario. Lets say there is a car with no breaks and a angry school bus driver drives it into a kindergarten, I doubt the breaks would have helped.
who do you focus the blame on. The manufacturer or the man who drove the bus into the kindergarten?


Of course the manufacturer. We sue, and win billions in punitive damages! Then retire on an island.

I suppose the manufacturer has more to be sued for then a school bus driver.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

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Sibirsky
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44940
Founded: Mar 22, 2009
Anarchy

Postby Sibirsky » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:16 pm

greed and death wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:
greed and death wrote:
The_pantless_hero wrote:
greed and death wrote:
http://bhopal.bard.edu/resources/docume ... report.pdf

The safety failures were a factor.
But that study is pretty clear it was intentional sabotage.
The main safety factor that might have prevented the tragedy was the refrigeration unit.
But even if that had been in use a clever saboteur could have got around it by disabling the unit.

So let me get this straight. Your excuse for horrible lapses in safety and the primary safety features that would have prevented the tragedy not existing at all is to say some one could have sabotaged it anyway?

"Don't bother putting brakes on cars, some one could cut them anyway."
"Don't bother breakers on outlets, some one could disable them anyway."
"Don't bother putting sprinkler systems in buildings, some one could break them anyway."

Not my excuse, just mentioning the terrible events were caused by a man.
Let see I want to make something break at a place I work at odds say I am going to be able to break it regardless of what safety features are in place, short of armed guards(and even then the whole BS your way through what your doing there part). Safety features are not designed to prevent intentional human intervention, they are designed to prevent accidental events.

Say your car with out breaks scenario. Lets say there is a car with no breaks and a angry school bus driver drives it into a kindergarten, I doubt the breaks would have helped.
who do you focus the blame on. The manufacturer or the man who drove the bus into the kindergarten?


Of course the manufacturer. We sue, and win billions in punitive damages! Then retire on an island.

I suppose the manufacturer has more to be sued for then a school bus driver.


Well that is true. I was going for sarcasm however.
Free market capitalism, path to prosperity
Свободный рынок капитализма, путь к процветанию
IBC 7 Finalists
8 Gold, 9 Silver, 2 Bronze medals IV Summer Olympics
2 Silver, 4 Bronze medals V Winter Olympics
Golfinator Classic Champion
Scott Cup I Champions
World Bowl 11 4th Place

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Non Aligned States
Minister
 
Posts: 3156
Founded: Nov 14, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Non Aligned States » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:04 pm

greed and death wrote:The safety failures were a factor.
But that study is pretty clear it was intentional sabotage.
The main safety factor that might have prevented the tragedy was the refrigeration unit.
But even if that had been in use a clever saboteur could have got around it by disabling the unit.


The study was produced not by an independent investigation group but by Dow Chemicals as an ass covering move. Additionally, the language in the so called "study" is deliberately biased and doesn't address the safety feature concerns beyond calling it "accusations by fringe elements". Yeah, real objective there. Next you'll be telling me that those "studies" by cigarettes firms prove that lung cancer and smoking have no correlation.
Last edited by Non Aligned States on Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Conservative Ad Droid
Diplomat
 
Posts: 721
Founded: Sep 23, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Conservative Ad Droid » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:13 pm

So, let me get this straight, the workers are fired because the company needs the money, (perfectly understandable) the workers storm the building in rage and destroy large amounts of property, and physically harm people, yet... the people who own the place are the bad guys? WTF?

Am I overlooking something........?
Last edited by Conservative Ad Droid on Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proud Member of the Evil NSG Right-Wing.

Quotes:
<10:49 Jenrak> And he was all 'Jenrak save me!'
<10:49 Jenrak> And I was like 'Are you under 13?'
<10:49 Jenrak: And he was like 'yesss'
<10:49 Jenrak> And I was like 'nope, sorry'
<10:49 Jenrak> And he was all like 'C'maaaaaaaaan' like a gangster
<10:49 Ozymos> Jenrak; Mercilessly crushing 12 year olds since 2010

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Northern Delmarva
Envoy
 
Posts: 338
Founded: Aug 06, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Delmarva » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:25 pm

Conservative Ad Droid wrote:So, let me get this straight, the workers are fired because the company needs the money, (perfectly understandable) the workers storm the building in rage and destroy large amounts of property, and physically harm people, yet... the people who own the place are the bad guys? WTF?

Am I overlooking something........?


Other than the massive amount of socialists/communists on NSG, no.
Last edited by Northern Delmarva on Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Engagement Condition- 9
1. World War, 2. Total War, 3. Large-Scale War, 4. Major War, 5. Medium-sized Conflict, 6. Small Conflict, 7. Anti-terrorism operations, War imminent 8. Economical/ proxy war, 9. International Crisis, 10. Peacetime
Member of the League of Republics and CAPITERN
Economic Left/Right: 3.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.38
CivilDefense Industries: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16419

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Conservative Ad Droid
Diplomat
 
Posts: 721
Founded: Sep 23, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Conservative Ad Droid » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:28 pm

Northern Delmarva wrote:
Conservative Ad Droid wrote:So, let me get this straight, the workers are fired because the company needs the money, (perfectly understandable) the workers storm the building in rage and destroy large amounts of property, and physically harm people, yet... the people who own the place are the bad guys? WTF?

Am I overlooking something........?


Other than the massive amount of socialists/communists on NSG, no.


Damn, I've been here a while too, how could I have forgotten.
Proud Member of the Evil NSG Right-Wing.

Quotes:
<10:49 Jenrak> And he was all 'Jenrak save me!'
<10:49 Jenrak> And I was like 'Are you under 13?'
<10:49 Jenrak: And he was like 'yesss'
<10:49 Jenrak> And I was like 'nope, sorry'
<10:49 Jenrak> And he was all like 'C'maaaaaaaaan' like a gangster
<10:49 Ozymos> Jenrak; Mercilessly crushing 12 year olds since 2010

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