The Slavic Thread!

[Kvatchdom]

I'm in as well.

Nation Name: National Republic of Kvatchdom
Nation Link: Kvatchdom
Nationality: Finnish-Ukrainian
Your views on Pan-Slavism: A rather awesome thought, but would be hard to actually bring it up before pro-Russianism.
Your views on Slavic Countries: Amazing culture, language, plus the people are much nicer than here in Finland.
Your views on Slavic Governments: Not all that good.
Languages that you speak: Finnish, English, Swedish, Spanish, bit of Russian.
Which country/state do you live in: Finland.
Where were you born: Ukraine.
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: Their buildings, and the way they drink. Finnish people just drink, get drunk, and pass out while yelling slurs. Slavic people make it an art.
Favorite book/author/movie/music/etc: Vladimir Lenin's writings are a good reading, yeah.

[Shofercia]

Hey, let's pretend that people and governments were/are the same thing, that sounds like so much fun! So that would make Germans of the early 1940's land-grubbing, genociding, sexist war mongers. Ouch! And it makes Brits badasses when it comes to taking out Boer women and kids, and chickens when it comes to taking on Hitler, at least for the first few years. Shall I continue? Or, perhaps, we could realize that people and governments aren't exactly the same. We could also realize that the whole break up of Yugoslavia was kinda messy, and expecting governments to adhere to perfect democratic standards, a few decades after the break up is... It worked in Germany and Japan because the duo lost sovereignty, and were utterly defeated, devastated, and unwilling to fight over anything. You could ban brown shirts, and get away with it.

As for Macedonia's Government punishing people for admitting that they're Albanian, damn, the government's got their hands full, cause over a quarter population's Albanian. As for politicians stealing via public works projects, damn dude, stealing's such a harsh word, maybe call it banking, or pork-barrell spending. That'd definitely make it sound more Westernized and democratic. And Bulgarians are so discriminated against, that a Bulgaro-phile was elected the Prime Minister of Macedonia in 1998.

About the only exception are pro-KLA radicals, and considering the "paradise" that's called Kosovo, I can understand why Macedonians would be resistant to let those thugs into government.

Eh? Great way to whitewash.

Whitewashing? I simply provided the other side of the story. The one you didn't want anyone to hear. You're welcome to show me which facts were wrong, but you can't do that, can you? Also, you were claiming that citizens/residents act as the government, a claim, which, for the most part is completely idiotic to make about Eastern European countries. If we're to take the Commie Rulers, subtract Khrushchev's Khrushevka policies, and average them out, you'd have a job done so poorly, that most Soviets would've done a better job.

Macedonia is snubbed by it's neighbors Greece, Albania and Bulgaria because of it's human rights record and screwed up political system; and historical revisionism is also another sticking point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_righ ... _Macedonia

HRW and Helsinki Watch

According to Human Rights Watch, many former Yugoslav citizens remain "effectively stateless"[3] as a result of a citizenship law drafted after Macedonia's secession from the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

Conflict between ethnic Albanian rebels and the Macedonian government has resulted in serious violations of human rights on both sides.[2]

According to the International Helsinki Federation for Human Rights, the following human rights abuses have been reported:[4]

Police abuse of suspects, particularly during initial arrest and detention
Police harassment of ethnic minorities, particularly Roma
Impunity and corruption in the police force
Political pressure on the judiciary
Societal violence and discrimination against women, children and ethnic minorities, particularly Roma
Trafficking in women and girls for sexual exploitation
Government interference with union activity

Nice place, pretty much the worst place to be in Europe, second only to Ukraine.

The worst place in Europe is Kosovo, specifically certain parts of South Kosovo. As for the citations, one is from 2000, two more could not be found and two more are from 2005. All in all a "stellar" list of citations. Here's a more modern report: http://eeas.europa.eu/human_rights/docs ... ort_en.pdf

The European Commission assessed that the country continues to meet the political criteria sufficiently. The country has continued accession-related reforms, though challenges remain. The Commission noted in its 2011 Progress Report that the legal and institutional framework for human rights and the protection of minorities is broadly in place, and encouraged a dialogue regarding serious concerns about lack of freedom of expression in the media.

In July the EU Delegation co-organised a workshop on Roma issues which drew up several documents. As a follow-up, targets have been established for the government covering wider rule of law and fundamental rights issues.

Fundamental rights were the focus of special attention at a meeting of EU Heads of Mission where human rights defenders' strategies and guidelines were reconfirmed, in parallel with a special discussion of LGBT rights. The EU Delegation also assisted a project to make citizens aware of rights of persons belonging to minorities through innovative cultural performances.

This is probably a good description: http://www.riskandforecast.com/post/ris ... a_224.html

Diplomatic Tensions between Bulgaria and Macedonia

Item

A Macedonian court's decision to send a Macedonian resident with Bulgarian citizenship to jail is sparking mutual recriminations. Sofia complained about the alleged harsh treatment meted out to its citizens in Macedonia after Spaska Mitrova was sentenced to 3 months in jail earlier this month. This happened due to the fact that she would not let her ex-husband see their two-year-old daughter. Skopje claimed that there was nothing wrong with the verdict since the crime was committed in Macedonia. Macedonia’s Foreign Ministry rejected the Bulgarian reaction to the case, saying it was unreasonable and wrong.

Analysis and forecast: increasing risk

The decision of the Macedonian judicial authorities provoked sharp reaction from the new Bulgarian government who raised the question of treatment of Bulgarians in Macedonia in general. The Bulgarian government asked officially for explanation about the Macedonian court’s ruling and the possibility of handing a biased verdict due to ethnicity specifics. However, in general, that incident should serve as a warning sign about the common mood and inclinations of the new Bulgarian administration’s handling of certain foreign policy issues pertaining to its neighbors and Bulgarian minorities abroad. It seems that such issues will be met with harder response than that of the previous Bulgarian administrations and will be put as focus to governments’ priorities. These observations could be supported by the fact that Mr. Bojidar Dimitrov (ex-director of the National Historic Museum) was appointed as Minister without portfolio in Borisov’s government responsible for the Bulgarians abroad. Mr. Dimitrov is known to the wide public as a supporter of harder stance toward Macedonia and for his nationalistic policy views.

Ok, so woman withholds kids from dad, gets 3 months in jail. Yeah, not seeing this as a huge issue. Are you just throwing everything out there, and hoping that something sticks?

The report for this year: http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/macedonia/report-2012

Freedom of expression

The freedom of expression of journalists and independent media workers was increasingly limited by government interference, ranging from direct intimidation to control of advertising companies. By October, some 105 defamation cases had been brought against journalists, many by government officials. Jadranka Kostova, editor of Focus, was fined 1 million denar (€16,259) for alleged defamation.

In January, the authorities froze the bank accounts of the A1 television channel and associated newspapers, Vreme, Shpic and Koha e Re, which were critical of the government. This followed the arrest and detention for alleged fraud and tax evasion of A1 TV’s owner and 14 others in December 2010. The subsequent trial was highly politicized, and concerns were expressed about the length of defendants’ detention.

In July, A1 TV closed and print versions of the newspapers ceased. Hundreds of journalists protested against their closure and consequent sacking of journalists; a union leader was dismissed, reportedly for participating in the protests. Later that month, amendments to the Law on Broadcasting increased government control over the Broadcasting Council, which regulates electronic media.

In October, talks began between government officials and journalists, who demanded the decriminalization of defamation. In a television interview, the Prime Minister accused journalist Borjan Jovanovski of undermining the country’s accession to the EU.

Discrimination

The 2010 Anti-Discrimination Law came into force in January; the Commission for Protection against Discrimination began to receive complaints in April. NGOs questioned the Commission’s competence and independence, as elected members lacked human rights expertise and three were state employees. The Law lacked provisions for the protection of lesbians, gay men, bisexual and transgender people, although the Commission ordered the withdrawal of a psychology text book with homophobic content.

Implementation of the 2001 Ohrid Agreement, addressing discrimination against Albanians, continued. Decentralization of powers to municipalities progressed slowly and the Law on Languages was partially implemented. The segregation of ethnic Albanian and Roma children in education continued.
Roma

In July, Macedonia assumed the Presidency of the Decade of Roma Inclusion, but failed to commit adequate resources for the implementation of its own action plans or the National Strategy for the Advancement of Romani Women.

Many Roma remained without the personal documentation needed to access education, health, employment and social protection. The NGO National Roma Centrum assisted 1,519 Roma in applying to legalize their property under a law adopted in March. Informal Roma settlements lack running water, electricity, drainage and roads.

The European Roma Rights Centre reported in May that Romani children comprised 46 per cent of students attending special schools or primary-school classes for children with special needs.
Refugees and asylum-seekers

Around 1,519 asylum-seekers, including 1,100 Kosovo Roma and Ashkali, remained in Macedonia. The Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare failed to provide them with financial assistance and housing required under a 2010 local integration agreement. Some 193 Roma, Ashkali and Egyptians returned to Kosovo and 16 moved to Serbia. Another 185 were waiting to return while 726 opted to integrate locally.

Under pressure from the European Commission, the government strengthened border controls, introducing exit controls which limited the right to leave the country, often targeting Roma. The Interior Minister reported that 764 nationals had been denied the right to leave Macedonia in June alone.

The Law lacked provisions for the protection of lesbians, gay men, bisexual and transgender people, although the Commission ordered the withdrawal of a psychology text book with homophobic content.

So they're protecting them, but not protecting them at the same time. Fascinating. In terms of the Roma, hey, at least Macedonia didn't deport them by the thousands to Romania, like that other country did, wasn't that one called France? There goes your claim that Macedonia's the absolute worst country...

[Shofercia]

Madeleine Albright's Scrap With Pro-Serbian Activists in a Prague Bookstore
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/10/madeleine-albrights-scrap-with-pro-serbian-activists-in-a-prague-bookstore/264245/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FaPuBUY558
@1:02 "they are disgusting Serbs ... GET OUT"

Props to my Czech brothers for taking a stand against Madeline "Madd Dog" Albright, a major proponent of the bombing of Serbia - at one point proclaiming her desire for ground war [along with Tony Blair] because "we have the most advance army in the world at our disposal - why not use it"

Also from the article -
In September, Bloomberg reported that the bidding for Kosovo's state-owned post and telecoms company "...has attracted interest from European and Turkish phone operators, as well as from an investment company headed by former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright

Such a dirty web we weave, Maddy...

The two videos, which were uploaded to YouTube by the group were published by the Czech publication Parlamentni Listy on its website on October 25. The videos show the verbal jousting that ensued after one of the group's members, Czech film director Vaclav Dvorak who made the documentary "Stolen Kosovo," walked up to Albright and asked her to sign a DVD copy of his film.

Nice! Thank you for this source, Srboslavija! Just reading that paragraph made my day. Is there an online free version of the movie available? (That's not illegally pirated, don't want to get NSG in trouble )

Following a mild scuffle between security staff and the group (at the 01:22 mark in the video above), Albright gets up from her chair and screams "Get out!"

Albright, always up for a debate, unless it involves crimes she allegedly committed, and in that case, the opposition must be told to "get out". Didn't anyone tell Albright that it's a public book store, in a country where she's not the ruler?

After being called a war criminal by someone in the crowd, Albright answers back, "You're a war criminal." She can be heard a few more times screaming, "Get out." At the 01:02 mark, however, she gets up from her chair one final time and yells, "Disgusting Serbs! Get Out!" before being escorted away from the scene by her handlers.

A classic "no U, oh and you're disgusting!" rebuttal. Maddy's "statesmanship" shines right through. Oh, and those were Czechs, not Serbs, but I assume all of us Eastern Europeans look the same to Maddy.

This is not Albright's first incident in her birthplace. On a visit to the Law Faculty at Masaryk University in Brno in March 2000, Albright was attacked with eggs by two Czech anarchists. She served as U.S Secretary of State from 1997 until 2001, presiding over the controversial 1999 NATO air bombing of the former Yugoslavia, aimed at driving Serb troops from Kosovo.

This, of course, doesn't mention that it was the capital of Serbia being bombed, in order to get Serbs to leave Kosovo, similar to a tactic used by the British during the Boer War, i.e. "if your army doesn't go where we say, we'll go after your women and children."

It's understandable why Albright's pissed. Her role in US Foreign Policy shows that she sucks, and Kosovo was her biggest failure. It's very painful when your biggest failure is brought up at your own book signing. The truth hurts, don't it Maddy?

[New Rogernomics]

Whitewashing? I simply provided
the other side of the story. The one
you didn't want anyone to hear.
You're welcome to show me which
facts were wrong, but you can't do
that, can you? Also, you were
claiming that citizens/residents act
as the government, a claim, which,
for the most part is completely
idiotic to make about Eastern
European countries. If we're to
take the Commie Rulers, subtract
Khrushchev's Khrushevka policies,
and average them out, you'd have
a job done so poorly, that most
Soviets would've done a better job.

Most Macedonians are extreme nationalists, which is reflected in how they vote. By your logic the people are never represented by their government, even when they willingly vote for them; albeit with some voter fraud and intimidation. I never equated people as the same as their government, a claim you created yourself and has no basis on what I posted. I am interested to see you accepting the premise that Putin does not represent the Russian people, because that is what follows from your line of reasoning.

What you describe as the 'other side of the story' is nothing more than government propaganda, it is curious you take the view of the Macedonian government; over that of Greece, Albania and Bulgaria. It is pressure from those governments and the European Union, that is forcing Macedonia to change.

Lastly, the worst nation (that is not a democracy, as Macedonia is a semi one) is in fact Belarus; and your comments on Kosovo demonstrate a pro-Serbian bias. Kosovo is independent and will remain independent, deal with it.

[Shofercia]

lol Tito was told to be a Croat/Slovene but more files are being leaked from Belgrade saying he was actually a hungarian put in power. I know Macedonians are Slavs I am not stupid, but they themesleves DENY it to the bone and say NO we are slaviced MACEDONIANS. Hence why they blow all their money on building statues and Arcs to something they are infact not related to. Therefore they should not be honored to be considered a Slav since they themeselves deny it, as should Croats who claim to come from Iran, and Bosniaks who claim to be Bogumils. Bulgars are NOT slavs, they just adopted slavic language/religon and culture. Another thing, how could one claim a Bosniak to be a slav when their best friend is Turkey. Regardless all this Pan Slavisim is a joke. The only union that would work would be Pan Orthodox. The prophices of Mount Athos monk is still yet to happen, Muslims driven from the Balkans and Istanbul returned to Greece thru Russian intervention. I personally believe it may come to be if Syria and Turkey keep duking it out and Russia is dragged in thru that or Bosnia/Kosovo.

The Macedonians I know don't deny that they're Slavs. They're proud of the fact. And to them, Slavicized Macedonians means that Macedonians and Slavs intermarried, (probably true,) and became Macedonians Slavs. Additionally, for quite a few Bosniaks, the best friend is Bosnia, not Turkey. You're mixing up politics and ethnicities, don't, politics is confusing enough. In terms of Bulgars, if they want to be Slavic, why not? The cultures aren't dissimilar. Hungarians claim to be descended from the Huns, (clearly not Slavs,) whereas Bulgarians and Slavs lived side by side - so there was likely quite a few intermarriages going on.

If Erdogan continues to be an idiot on Syria, he'll lose tourism revenue faster than he can say "oh crap, I messed up". And if you were to read posts by Kemaliste, you'd know that not all Turks are pro Syrian Opposition, and that there have been quite a few protests about it. Additionally, Russia de facto controls Turkish Part of the Caucasus Region, so if Erdogan keeps on being an idiot, he might soon have his own kitchen on fire.

Pan-Slavism's not a joke, it's a real thing that's going on. And it's not contrary to Pan-Orthodoxy. Although calling it Pan-Orthodoxy would be wrong, since we're all already united.

Orthodox Pride ( Slav or NOT )

Greece
Macedonia
Serbia
Russia
Montenegro
Ethiopia
Eitrea
Romania
Bulgaria
Ukraine
Belorussia
Moldova

From the Pacific, Artic, Black Sea, and Adriatic.

You're also leaving out Georgia, Armenia, etc.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ountry.svg

[Shofercia]

Whitewashing? I simply provided
the other side of the story. The one
you didn't want anyone to hear.
You're welcome to show me which
facts were wrong, but you can't do
that, can you? Also, you were
claiming that citizens/residents act
as the government, a claim, which,
for the most part is completely
idiotic to make about Eastern
European countries. If we're to
take the Commie Rulers, subtract
Khrushchev's Khrushevka policies,
and average them out, you'd have
a job done so poorly, that most
Soviets would've done a better job.

Most Macedonians are extreme nationalists, which is reflected in how they vote. By your logic the people are never represented by their government, even when they willingly vote for them; albeit with some voter fraud and intimidation. I never equated people as the same as their government, a claim you created yourself and has no basis on what I posted. I am interested to see you accepting the premise that Putin does not represent the Russian people, because that is what follows from your line of reasoning.

What you describe as the 'other side of the story' is nothing more than government propaganda, it is curious you take the view of the Macedonian government; over that of Greece, Albania and Bulgaria. It is pressure from those governments and the European Union, that is forcing Macedonia to change.

Lastly, the worst nation (that is not a democracy, as Macedonia is a semi one) is in fact Belarus; and your comments on Kosovo demonstrate a pro-Serbian bias. Kosovo is indepedent and will remain indepedent, deal with it.

Kosovo's not independent. An independent country can join the UN, Kosovo can't. An independent country can control all of its territory, Kosovo can't. An independent country, (at least in Europe,) can function without massive foreign assistance. Kosovo can't. Kosovo, in it's current form, is about as independent, as my pet fish.

Belarus is by far not the worst nation. Belarus has one of the most advanced systems of Social Rights in Eastern Europe. Quite a few foreigners are demonizing Belarus, cause they be butthurt that Lukashenko didn't let their companies rape Belarus, as was the case with quite a few other countries in Eastern Europe.

Did it ever occur to you that leaders lie? I've yet to see Putin lie, and Putin's approval rating is usually between 50 and 70 percent, current is 55%, I think. On the other hand, Yeltsin's was in the single digits. So yeah, it would be correct to say that most Russians support Putin, and, at least partially agree with his policies; similarly, it'd be fair to say that most Russians didn't support Yeltsin, and radically disagreed with most of Yeltsin's policies.

Do you have an actual source for most Macedonians being uber-nationalists?

I'm not taking any sides, and what exactly, in that post, was government propaganda? I've listed the census and the fact that someone who was a Bulgaro-phile was elected in 1998 as Prime Minister. Those are facts, not government propaganda, so please, learn to differentiate between the two.

[Shofercia]

Okay then

Nation Name: The Empire of Vudnia
Nation Link: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=new_vudnia
Nationality: American
Your views on Pan-Slavism: Not sure what this is.
Your views on Slavic Countries: Russia seems to be the only corrupt one of the lot.
Your views on Slavic Governments: They’re doing a pretty good job... except for Russia. The Russian people themselves are nice, but their government is almost as bad as their former communist leaders.
Languages that you speak: English, extremely poor spanish and french.
Which country/state do you live in: US, Upstate NY
Where were you born: NYC
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: the food
Favorite book/author/movie/music/etc: 20,000 leagues under the sea by Jules Verne/Edward Scissorhands/ Classic rock

Pan-Slavism is a movement, the gist of which is saying "hey Slavs, stop fighting each other and party together!" It includes spreading Slavic Culture, (partially through partying,) and improving relations amongst Slavic nations, (partially through partying )

It's a way for us to tell our government to provide more parti- erm, Slavic Cultural Exchanges. The governments, for the most part, are ok with it, because they don't want to spend money fighting each other, and the whole controlling each other thingy got old.

Since you like rock, what do you think about this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6mMbJgWfe8

[Shofercia]

I'm in as well.

Nation Name: National Republic of Kvatchdom
Nation Link: Kvatchdom
Nationality: Finnish-Ukrainian
Your views on Pan-Slavism: A rather awesome thought, but would be hard to actually bring it up before pro-Russianism.
Your views on Slavic Countries: Amazing culture, language, plus the people are much nicer than here in Finland.
Your views on Slavic Governments: Not all that good.
Languages that you speak: Finnish, English, Swedish, Spanish, bit of Russian.
Which country/state do you live in: Finland.
Where were you born: Ukraine.
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: Their buildings, and the way they drink. Finnish people just drink, get drunk, and pass out while yelling slurs. Slavic people make it an art.
Favorite book/author/movie/music/etc: Vladimir Lenin's writings are a good reading, yeah.

Whoah, nice language list! Also, I really love your fave thing about the Slavic Culture: the way they drink. Finnish people just drink, get drunk, and pass out while yelling slurs. Slavic people make it an art.

That is just... awesome

Ok, so, I have to ask: what's your fave thing about the Slavic Drinking Culture?

[Exi1and]

Madeleine Albright's Scrap With Pro-Serbian Activists in a Prague Bookstore
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/10/madeleine-albrights-scrap-with-pro-serbian-activists-in-a-prague-bookstore/264245/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FaPuBUY558
@1:02 "they are disgusting Serbs ... GET OUT"

Props to my Czech brothers for taking a stand against Madeline "Madd Dog" Albright, a major proponent of the bombing of Serbia - at one point proclaiming her desire for ground war [along with Tony Blair] because "we have the most advance army in the world at our disposal - why not use it"

Also from the article -
In September, Bloomberg reported that the bidding for Kosovo's state-owned post and telecoms company "...has attracted interest from European and Turkish phone operators, as well as from an investment company headed by former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright

Such a dirty web we weave, Maddy...

I wanted someone to arrest her. She is the one who should be on trial, not the heroes of the war, such as Mladic and Karadzic.

[Central European Commonwealth]

Madeleine Albright's Scrap With Pro-Serbian Activists in a Prague Bookstore
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/10/madeleine-albrights-scrap-with-pro-serbian-activists-in-a-prague-bookstore/264245/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FaPuBUY558
@1:02 "they are disgusting Serbs ... GET OUT"

Props to my Czech brothers for taking a stand against Madeline "Madd Dog" Albright, a major proponent of the bombing of Serbia - at one point proclaiming her desire for ground war [along with Tony Blair] because "we have the most advance army in the world at our disposal - why not use it"

Also from the article -
In September, Bloomberg reported that the bidding for Kosovo's state-owned post and telecoms company "...has attracted interest from European and Turkish phone operators, as well as from an investment company headed by former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright

Such a dirty web we weave, Maddy...

I wanted someone to arrest her. She is the one who should be on trial, not the heroes of the war, such as Mladic and Karadzic.

Mladić and Karadzić heroes? If executing people makes you a hero, sure...

I guess the Russians are heroes as well then. Was all over the news today that residue of explosives were found in the wreckage of the plane which crashed in Smoleńsk - you know, where some of our leaders went to commemorate the slaughter of 20 000 Polish intellectuals and officials by the Russians...

http://www.rp.pl/artykul/947284-Katastr ... olewa.html

And lately "suicide" seems like a sort of virus around here...

1. Grzegorz Michniewicz, dyrektor generalny w Kancelarii Premiera Tuska, osoba posiadająca najwyższy status dostępu do informacji tajnych, powiesił się 23 grudnia 2009 r. – w dniu, w którym do Polski po remoncie powrócił z Samary Tu-154M 101. Tuż przed domniemanym samobójstwem dzwonił do żony, omawiając plany na następny dzień.

2. Stefan Zielonka, wojskowy szyfrant w Kancelarii Premiera, miał dostęp do tajnych danych rządu polskiego. 27 kwietnia 2010 r. na skarpie wiślanej, po roku poszukiwań i dociekań, znaleziono jego szczątki

3.Krzysztof Knyż, operator „Faktów” TVN, był jednym z pierwszych reporterów, któremu udało się dotrzeć na miejsce katastrofy smoleńskiej. Miał za zadanie sfilmować lądowanie samolotu prezydenta. 2 czerwca 2010 r. zmarł w Moskwie.
4. Marek Dulinicz – wybitny polski archeolog, szef grupy archeologicznej, która miała jechać do Smoleńska – 6 czerwca 2010 r. zginął w wypadku samochodowym.

5. Eugeniusz Wróbel - znawców komputerowych systemów sterowania lotem jak twierdzą krytycy rządowej wersji katastrofy smoleńskiej mógł wejść w skład biegłych polskiej prokuratury oceniających rosyjski raport.

6. Dariusz Szpineta – znany ekspert lotniczy, który publicznie krytykował śledztwo smoleńskie.

7. gen. Petelicki także publicznie krytykował sposób prowadzenia śledztwa w sprawie tragedii smoleńskiej

Osobna sprawą jest tajemnicze samobójstwo Leppera i tajemnicze śmierci jego bardzo bliskich współpracowników Ryszarda Kucińskiego i Róży Żarskiej.
Samobójstwu Leppera jeszcze mozna bylo dać wiarę... ale takiej serii z udzialem dwójki bardzo blisko wspólpracowników doprawdy trudno uwierzyć.

[Shofercia]

I wanted someone to arrest her. She is the one who should be on trial, not the heroes of the war, such as Mladic and Karadzic.

Mladić and Karadzić heroes? If executing people makes you a hero, sure...

I guess the Russians are heroes as well then. Was all over the news today that residue of explosives were found in the wreckage of the plane which crashed in Smoleńsk - you know, where some of our leaders went to commemorate the slaughter of 20 000 Polish intellectuals and officials by the Russians...

http://www.rp.pl/artykul/947284-Katastr ... olewa.html

And lately "suicide" seems like a sort of virus around here...

1. Grzegorz Michniewicz, dyrektor generalny w Kancelarii Premiera Tuska, osoba posiadająca najwyższy status dostępu do informacji tajnych, powiesił się 23 grudnia 2009 r. – w dniu, w którym do Polski po remoncie powrócił z Samary Tu-154M 101. Tuż przed domniemanym samobójstwem dzwonił do żony, omawiając plany na następny dzień.

2. Stefan Zielonka, wojskowy szyfrant w Kancelarii Premiera, miał dostęp do tajnych danych rządu polskiego. 27 kwietnia 2010 r. na skarpie wiślanej, po roku poszukiwań i dociekań, znaleziono jego szczątki

3.Krzysztof Knyż, operator „Faktów” TVN, był jednym z pierwszych reporterów, któremu udało się dotrzeć na miejsce katastrofy smoleńskiej. Miał za zadanie sfilmować lądowanie samolotu prezydenta. 2 czerwca 2010 r. zmarł w Moskwie.
4. Marek Dulinicz – wybitny polski archeolog, szef grupy archeologicznej, która miała jechać do Smoleńska – 6 czerwca 2010 r. zginął w wypadku samochodowym.

5. Eugeniusz Wróbel - znawców komputerowych systemów sterowania lotem jak twierdzą krytycy rządowej wersji katastrofy smoleńskiej mógł wejść w skład biegłych polskiej prokuratury oceniających rosyjski raport.

6. Dariusz Szpineta – znany ekspert lotniczy, który publicznie krytykował śledztwo smoleńskie.

7. gen. Petelicki także publicznie krytykował sposób prowadzenia śledztwa w sprawie tragedii smoleńskiej

Osobna sprawą jest tajemnicze samobójstwo Leppera i tajemnicze śmierci jego bardzo bliskich współpracowników Ryszarda Kucińskiego i Róży Żarskiej.
Samobójstwu Leppera jeszcze mozna bylo dać wiarę... ale takiej serii z udzialem dwójki bardzo blisko wspólpracowników doprawdy trudno uwierzyć.

What is it with the failure to distinguish the people from the government, lately? What's next, someone arguing that all Russians served in the NKVD?

[Central European Commonwealth]

What is it with the failure to distinguish the people from the government, lately? What's next, someone arguing that all Russians served in the NKVD?

There are a lot of good Russians. Their government is just screwed up and should be replaced.

[Shofercia]

What is it with the failure to distinguish the people from the government, lately? What's next, someone arguing that all Russians served in the NKVD?

There are a lot of good Russians. Their government is just screwed up and should be replaced.

That's not what your previous post implied.

[Lissiona]

Okay then

Nation Name: The Empire of Vudnia
Nation Link: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=new_vudnia
Nationality: American
Your views on Pan-Slavism: Not sure what this is.
Your views on Slavic Countries: Russia seems to be the only corrupt one of the lot.
Your views on Slavic Governments: They’re doing a pretty good job... except for Russia. The Russian people themselves are nice, but their government is almost as bad as their former communist leaders.
Languages that you speak: English, extremely poor spanish and french.
Which country/state do you live in: US, Upstate NY
Where were you born: NYC
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: the food
Favorite book/author/movie/music/etc: 20,000 leagues under the sea by Jules Verne/Edward Scissorhands/ Classic rock

Pan-Slavism is a movement, the gist of which is saying "hey Slavs, stop fighting each other and party together!" It includes spreading Slavic Culture, (partially through partying,) and improving relations amongst Slavic nations, (partially through partying )

It's a way for us to tell our government to provide more parti- erm, Slavic Cultural Exchanges. The governments, for the most part, are ok with it, because they don't want to spend money fighting each other, and the whole controlling each other thingy got old.

Since you like rock, what do you think about this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6mMbJgWfe8

Listen Pan slavisim will never happen this thread is a joke. I dont know why I bothered posting. Bosniaks are slavs, they only sold out croats and serbs and helped enslave their brother for 500 years, stole their land, persecuted the people, surpressed christianity, forced uneeded taxes while they had tax breaks, and so on. They sold their identity 500 years ago for Turkic identity (not to mention they say they are ANCIENT BOSNIAN BOGUMILS not SLAVS. They look more towards the arab world in politics as oppossed to the slavic one. Croats justify themeselves as not being serbian by sayin they are from IRAN so they are not Slavs, they sold out and look towards the vatican and Germany in every comfrontation in Europe. Bulgars have warred with slavs since they settled in the balkans they belong back in the khanate bulgar land over in asia. Mother Russia is the true Slavic homeland and those who look away from their mother are a sad case and are not slavs. As for all this Stalin killed people, He was a georgian not even russian, and persecuted millions of Russians. Most Russian commie leaders were infact Jews not even Russian. Poles should stop crying they sold themseleves out when they bent over to the Vatican. PS Yugoslavia was a joke, King Peter the LIBERATOR was offered his own state after WW1 for serbs that would be what you guys call "Greater Serbia" nowadays. Instead he created a slavic state for all those enthnic groups to live together. Also in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia it was split up in banovinas (small Regions not republics) Croats were the first moaning for a Croat state within yugoslavia. So while serbia was split between 4 banovina regions, croatia had one soldier GREATER Croat state. which they got! With all their demands, and when ww2 came around they decided now it just had to be cleansed of Orthodox serbs, Jews, and Roma.

[Shofercia]

Pan-Slavism is a movement, the gist of which is saying "hey Slavs, stop fighting each other and party together!" It includes spreading Slavic Culture, (partially through partying,) and improving relations amongst Slavic nations, (partially through partying )

It's a way for us to tell our government to provide more parti- erm, Slavic Cultural Exchanges. The governments, for the most part, are ok with it, because they don't want to spend money fighting each other, and the whole controlling each other thingy got old.

Since you like rock, what do you think about this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6mMbJgWfe8

Listen Pan slavisim will never happen this thread is a joke. I dont know why I bothered posting. Bosniaks are slavs, they only sold out croats and serbs and helped enslave their brother for 500 years, stole their land, persecuted the people, surpressed christianity, forced uneeded taxes while they had tax breaks, and so on. They sold their identity 500 years ago for Turkic identity (not to mention they say they are ANCIENT BOSNIAN BOGUMILS not SLAVS. They look more towards the arab world in politics as oppossed to the slavic one. Croats justify themeselves as not being serbian by sayin they are from IRAN so they are not Slavs, they sold out and look towards the vatican and Germany in every comfrontation in Europe. Bulgars have warred with slavs since they settled in the balkans they belong back in the khanate bulgar land over in asia. Mother Russia is the true Slavic homeland and those who look away from their mother are a sad case and are not slavs. As for all this Stalin killed people, He was a georgian not even russian, and persecuted millions of Russians. Most Russian commie leaders were infact Jews not even Russian. Poles should stop crying they sold themseleves out when they bent over to the Vatican. PS Yugoslavia was a joke, King Peter the LIBERATOR was offered his own state after WW1 for serbs that would be what you guys call "Greater Serbia" nowadays. Instead he created a slavic state for all those enthnic groups to live together. Also in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia it was split up in banovinas (small Regions not republics) Croats were the first moaning for a Croat state within yugoslavia. So while serbia was split between 4 banovina regions, croatia had one soldier GREATER Croat state. which they got! With all their demands, and when ww2 came around they decided now it just had to be cleansed of Orthodox serbs, Jews, and Roma.

This thread has over 1,000 posts - and quite a few are full of analysis and on topic, so it's not a joke. But if you think it is, you're welcome to not post. I don't post in threads that I think are jocular, unless I'm joking around. Some Bosniaks sold out Serbs & Croats, and other Bosniaks helped out Serbs & Croats, and that could be said for just about every ethnicity. Croats are Slavs, whether you agree or not, it doesn't change the fact that Croats are Slavs. Bulgars warred, yeah, and? So did Poles & Russians, during the Time of Troubles and the Polish Partitions. Look, I'm sorry you feel this way about Pan-Slavism, but if you don't believe that it'll succeed, why post in a thread about it?

[Lissiona]

Listen Pan slavisim will never happen this thread is a joke. I dont know why I bothered posting. Bosniaks are slavs, they only sold out croats and serbs and helped enslave their brother for 500 years, stole their land, persecuted the people, surpressed christianity, forced uneeded taxes while they had tax breaks, and so on. They sold their identity 500 years ago for Turkic identity (not to mention they say they are ANCIENT BOSNIAN BOGUMILS not SLAVS. They look more towards the arab world in politics as oppossed to the slavic one. Croats justify themeselves as not being serbian by sayin they are from IRAN so they are not Slavs, they sold out and look towards the vatican and Germany in every comfrontation in Europe. Bulgars have warred with slavs since they settled in the balkans they belong back in the khanate bulgar land over in asia. Mother Russia is the true Slavic homeland and those who look away from their mother are a sad case and are not slavs. As for all this Stalin killed people, He was a georgian not even russian, and persecuted millions of Russians. Most Russian commie leaders were infact Jews not even Russian. Poles should stop crying they sold themseleves out when they bent over to the Vatican. PS Yugoslavia was a joke, King Peter the LIBERATOR was offered his own state after WW1 for serbs that would be what you guys call "Greater Serbia" nowadays. Instead he created a slavic state for all those enthnic groups to live together. Also in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia it was split up in banovinas (small Regions not republics) Croats were the first moaning for a Croat state within yugoslavia. So while serbia was split between 4 banovina regions, croatia had one soldier GREATER Croat state. which they got! With all their demands, and when ww2 came around they decided now it just had to be cleansed of Orthodox serbs, Jews, and Roma.

This thread has over 1,000 posts - and quite a few are full of analysis and on topic, so it's not a joke. But if you think it is, you're welcome to not post. I don't post in threads that I think are jocular, unless I'm joking around. Some Bosniaks sold out Serbs & Croats, and other Bosniaks helped out Serbs & Croats, and that could be said for just about every ethnicity. Croats are Slavs, whether you agree or not, it doesn't change the fact that Croats are Slavs. Bulgars warred, yeah, and? So did Poles & Russians, during the Time of Troubles and the Polish Partitions. Look, I'm sorry you feel this way about Pan-Slavism, but if you don't believe that it'll succeed, why post in a thread about it?[/quot

I had been watching this thread for awhile and could not hold my tounge any further. Poles, Croats, Bulgars, and Bosniaks are not Slavs.

[Bordurian]

At my Babcia's funeral this weekend I got a blast of Slavic culture from my relatives. Food, drink, mass everything.

[Scholencia]

Bulgars are not Slavs. They are Bulgars who have been Slavicized if that makes sense. Their roots come from turkic/mongol tribes. Croats are not Slavs either. Thats at least what modern Croats have adopted. Many Croat Historians and Politicians inculding Tudjman the father of Croatia have said they came from modern day Iran. Bosniaks are not a true state because it is just a hijacked country. Turks gave land and wealth to those Serbs and Croats who were willing to convert and give up their cultrual identity. Therefore I would say they a Turkicized Slavs if that makes sense. After all they Hate Russia and Serbia and always call the Turks their brothers. The Other agruments to consitute the reason for having a Bosnian state is their historical argument that they are Ancient Bogumils so yet agian they are not Slavs. Macedonians claim to be Phonecians who then settled Macedonia and birthed an Empire from Alexander the Great so they should not be considered Slavs as well. Poles, Russia, Belorussia, Ukraine, Serbia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Slovakia, Cezech Rep are true slavs.

No, he never said that nor is the Iranian theory accepted as official explain of the origins of Croats. It is just one of maaaaaaaaany theories and even it dont deny that Croats are Slavs.

It is true that the Bosniak establishment tries to fabricate history and love Turkey but they dont deny that they are Slavs nor do they hate Russia or Serbia in general.

The same goes for Macedonia. They dont deny that they are Slavs and the whole ALexander festivals is a reaction of the Greek government which deny their name. plase, read less propaganda.

Bosniaks are also Slavs, and calling an entire ethnicity as "descended from traitors" is both harsh, and historically inaccurate. Furthermore, Bosniaks don't hate Russia; they might disagree with the Russian government, or feel a certain enmity to the government, but I've yet to hear a Bosniak say "hey, let's kill off all Russians/Serbs". I'm Russian, and I absolutely despise Yeltsin and Gorbachev's Governments. Does that make me any less Russian? I like Putin. Does that make me any more Russian?

Bosniak nationalits are making such impression due to the Turskish flags that are set up whenever a Turkish national team plays and because some Bosniak politicians said that Turkey is their mother. But, it is off-topic.

Macedonians dont consider themselvs slavs because slavs settled in the Balkans in 700AD at the earilest. Alexander the Great is back in 300 BCE. They are Ancient Macedonians not SLAVS. I could care less what you think, I gave facts and now I will not reply to this thread.
PS I am Macedonian and Montengrian. My Mac side says we are not slavs.

My macedonian friends says the opposite thing.

And you're wrong. The Rus tribe intermarried with Slavic Tribes to become Russians. We're not talking about Ancient Macedonians, we're talking about modern Macedonians, who intermarried with Slavs quite often. The modern Macedonian Language is a branch of the South Slavonic Languages. I'm talking about modern Macedonians, not the ones who existed millenia ago.You mean the ones with a corrupt, authoritarian government that tries to deny that they are Bulgarians, Albanians and such (and punish people for admitting they are Albanian or Bulgarian); rather than 'being descended from Alexander the Great'? I leave those people to fight it out, apparently they are bankrupting their country with large public works projects; where their politicians steal money.

The government is far more democratic than in some nations of the EU. The Macedonias dont punish Albanians since the Albanians are a constitutive nation from 2001. when the government signed the Treaty of Ohrid (which the war in Macedonia ended).

The whole neocliassical buildings is indeed bullshit but at least they know where their money ended and the govenrment is democratic elected. This all "we are descendant of Alexander" is because the Greek government is dening their name and since the modern day Greeks are also not descendant of the ancient one I dont see the problem with Macedonians claiming Alexander. The Macedonias also dont deny that they are Slavs.

...

Madeline has always been a charming lovely ol lady. For calling the Serbs disgusting I dont blame her since they came in started to provoke her and even phisicall attack. So, the next them the pro-Serb-kosovo fan club should be more pollite the next time.

Eh? Great way to whitewash. Macedonia is snubbed by it's neighbors Greece, Albania and Bulgaria because of it's human rights record and screwed up political system; and historical revisionism is also another sticking point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_righ ... _Macedonia
HRW and Helsinki Watch

When Bulgaria and Greece entered the EU they hadnt have worser or better human right than in Macedonia and yet they are under target of the same nations. You see, because Greece blocking Macedonia from EU and NATO intergration Macedonia is unable to progress.

And for all Macedonian haters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO5Beq-D74A
listen and suffer

What you describe as the 'other side of the story' is nothing more than government propaganda, it is curious you take the view of the Macedonian government; over that of Greece, Albania and Bulgaria. It is pressure from those governments and the European Union, that is forcing Macedonia to change.

You are aware that Macedonia will never be part of the EU? Even if they were a economical powerhouse and have a govermnet according to american standards they were always be blocked by this two countries. Besides, Serbians are the most nationalists on the Balkan and yet in this thread is too many hearth breaking posts about the so-called "Serbian Kosovo" and yet they are having far more progress than Macedonia.

I wanted someone to arrest her. She is the one who should be on trial, not the heroes of the war, such as Mladic and Karadzic.

^This is the reason why I despite pan-slavism

Listen Pan slavisim will never happen this thread is a joke. I dont know why I bothered posting. Bosniaks are slavs, they only sold out croats and serbs and helped enslave their brother for 500 years, stole their land, persecuted the people, surpressed christianity, forced uneeded taxes while they had tax breaks, and so on. They sold their identity 500 years ago for Turkic identity (not to mention they say they are ANCIENT BOSNIAN BOGUMILS not SLAVS. They look more towards the arab world in politics as oppossed to the slavic one. Croats justify themeselves as not being serbian by sayin they are from IRAN so they are not Slavs, they sold out and look towards the vatican and Germany in every comfrontation in Europe. Bulgars have warred with slavs since they settled in the balkans they belong back in the khanate bulgar land over in asia. Mother Russia is the true Slavic homeland and those who look away from their mother are a sad case and are not slavs. As for all this Stalin killed people, He was a georgian not even russian, and persecuted millions of Russians. Most Russian commie leaders were infact Jews not even Russian. Poles should stop crying they sold themseleves out when they bent over to the Vatican. PS Yugoslavia was a joke, King Peter the LIBERATOR was offered his own state after WW1 for serbs that would be what you guys call "Greater Serbia" nowadays. Instead he created a slavic state for all those enthnic groups to live together. Also in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia it was split up in banovinas (small Regions not republics) Croats were the first moaning for a Croat state within yugoslavia. So while serbia was split between 4 banovina regions, croatia had one soldier GREATER Croat state. which they got! With all their demands, and when ww2 came around they decided now it just had to be cleansed of Orthodox serbs, Jews, and Roma.

The bold part is a serbian nationalistic myth. How do they sold them self to the Vatican? Was there any agreement or what? I only recall that Serbs sold them self to the Turks since they were being Turskish vassals for alsmost 400 years.

King Peter accepted Yugoslavia because he gain much more teritory than he would have with Greater Serbia. In his perspective Yugoslavia was a full-jackpot for him. So, Croats wanted statehood which it had during the period of Austro-Hungary and since the royal government wasbrutal toward them.

Also, Croatia was also split in many banovinas and the only perios when it was one banovina was from 1939-1941. The serbian chetnik also made etnichal cleansing toward jews and non-serbs, so troll off.

[Shofercia]

This thread has over 1,000 posts - and quite a few are full of analysis and on topic, so it's not a joke. But if you think it is, you're welcome to not post. I don't post in threads that I think are jocular, unless I'm joking around. Some Bosniaks sold out Serbs & Croats, and other Bosniaks helped out Serbs & Croats, and that could be said for just about every ethnicity. Croats are Slavs, whether you agree or not, it doesn't change the fact that Croats are Slavs. Bulgars warred, yeah, and? So did Poles & Russians, during the Time of Troubles and the Polish Partitions. Look, I'm sorry you feel this way about Pan-Slavism, but if you don't believe that it'll succeed, why post in a thread about it?

I had been watching this thread for awhile and could not hold my tounge any further. Poles, Croats, Bulgars, and Bosniaks are not Slavs.

They are. You may not like them, which is why you don't like Pan-Slavism, but here's the thing: the more we fight each other, the weaker we get. Pan-Slavism is here to stop us from fighting each other over things that happened in the past.

[Lissiona]

I had been watching this thread for awhile and could not hold my tounge any further. Poles, Croats, Bulgars, and Bosniaks are not Slavs.

They are. You may not like them, which is why you don't like Pan-Slavism, but here's the thing: the more we fight each other, the weaker we get. Pan-Slavism is here to stop us from fighting each other over things that happened in the past.

They reject the theory themselves and their government and Historians so no they arent. Maybe Poles dont but Croats, Bosniaks and we know for a fact Bulgars are not slavs

[Shofercia]

Bosniaks are also Slavs, and calling an entire ethnicity as "descended from traitors" is both harsh, and historically inaccurate. Furthermore, Bosniaks don't hate Russia; they might disagree with the Russian government, or feel a certain enmity to the government, but I've yet to hear a Bosniak say "hey, let's kill off all Russians/Serbs". I'm Russian, and I absolutely despise Yeltsin and Gorbachev's Governments. Does that make me any less Russian? I like Putin. Does that make me any more Russian?

Bosniak nationalits are making such impression due to the Turskish flags that are set up whenever a Turkish national team plays and because some Bosniak politicians said that Turkey is their mother. But, it is off-topic.

And some Russian Nationalists are racist pigs, looking at you, Navalny. Fortunately, they're in the minority. As for what politicians say, well, damn it Khadaffi's gone, he was the most entertaining!

...

Madeline has always been a charming lovely ol lady. For calling the Serbs disgusting I dont blame her since they came in started to provoke her and even phisicall attack. So, the next them the pro-Serb-kosovo fan club should be more pollite the next time.

"Dear Serbs, please accept our depleted uranium bombs with love, kindness and respect, and be more polite during book signing."

I mean, seriously? Did you read the article? They approached her, and asked her to sign their video. She said "no". And then confronted them, yelling at them. What did they do that was so impolite?

I wanted someone to arrest her. She is the one who should be on trial, not the heroes of the war, such as Mladic and Karadzic.

^This is the reason why I despite pan-slavism

Expressing an opinion that's different from your own? Cause I can guarantee you, if there was no Pan-Slavism, Exi1and would have the exact same opinion. Yes, sometimes we have different opinions, so what? I disagree with his opinion, and have my own opinion. You seem to be pro-Western, so that means that you must accept freedom of speech, and Exi1and's opinions are, by far, nowhere near as bad as some other commentators.

[Scholencia]

The US didn't take responsibility for the Contras, until after the ICJ convicted the US, so erm, on US taking responsibility - that's not going to happen. Russia had a recession, but it was very short, in part because of the Social Safety Net and Natural Resource taxation that Putin and United Russia recreated. If you have a diversified economy, a great education system, cash reserves, a social safety net, and a government willing to listen, or act like it's listening to the people, then you'll recover from a recession much faster.

The ECB is doing the exact opposite. It's forcing governments to cut back on social programs and to cut education funding, and it ignores the masses - so it's actually prolonging the recession. The cultural differences between Slavs are minor, yet significant, so as long as we respect each other, we can get by with our cultural differences, and in some cases, even because of our cultural differences. As for doing horrible things - so what? Should I go on a Polish killing spree cause they unjustly raided Moscow in 1610? Forget, forgive, move on. And yeah, Balkan people can identify themselves with people from the Urals, "hey, Branko, name's Vanya, let's have some vodka, eh?" - I mean it doesn't take that long. If I can get along with Georgians with wine and hatchapuri, surely Slavs can get along

Yes, I'm Russian, which makes me European. The problem with a pan-European movement is that Europeans have nothing in common, except genes and location. That won't do us any good. That's nothing to bond over. Slavs have culture, history, etc, that's unified.

From what I know, the ECB is only forcing to fund some institutions that are curently threaten longterm education funding. But,do you have some example or source for that? Yes, you and Poles had some clashed but long time ago, a different story is went it happened 20 years ago. Votka is called Rakija heere.
Anyway, I suppose you are watching hockey. The club from my city will join the KHL next year so it would be interesting how will they deal with the other clubs.

Well, if a legend says so

From what I know, Austria-Hungary repressed Slavic Culture rather fiercely. Slavs were rarely allowed limited autonomy. As the A-H Empire became weaker, the Slavs broke out and declared independence. If they were treated so well, why rebel?

Well, as I said already the main destabilisating factor in A-U was Hungary. You see the monarchy was from 1866 divided into the Hungarian and Austrian part. Easch this part had its own government and rules. Now, thoose in the Hungarian part which was more undemocratic and slavic vote (like in Slovakia for example) was often limited and it the Hungarian part was predominantly agricultural which mean less develop. This factor helped that slavic nationalism rise.

Now, the Austrian was a different story. The Austrian part was far more democratic. The Slavs had their representatives in the parliament and the austrian was industralised. This helped slavic states to flourish but since the Hungarian part made a bad impression slavic nationalism spread throughout the monarhy. Now, in general the A-U monarhy in general had it bad sides but in compare to the years after WWI it was a better place and many people were nostalgic the monarhy (just like some people are today nostalgic for the times of communism and dissapointed in capitalism).


.

Thing about Kosovo, is that not all of the EU recognizes it. Slovakia, Spain, Greece, Romania and Cyprus are EU members that don't recognize Kosovo. Despite being in NATO, the quartet, (minus Cyprus,) isn't forced to recognize Kosovo. On the other hand, Serbia is.

Well, in recent future more than half UN nation will recognise Kosovo as a independent state and yet it will never enter in the UN as a full member. And yet, you would probably not complain about it.

Except Franz Ferdinand wasn't smart enough to pull it off. Woodrow Wilson had a good plan, which turned into an utter failure. Also, Tito was a Croat, and wasn't a nationalist, so he'd do ok.

Well, that is the reason why he was shoot to dead. Besides. He was a nationalists, but a Yugoslav nationalist.Tito had a good foreign policy but the internal policy was something different. During his early age he was a Austr-Hungarian soldier and fought on the Eastern front and later in the Russian civil war.You should know during the Russian civils wars, croats fought for the Red Army while the Serbian for the White Army.

[Scholencia]

And some Russian Nationalists are racist pigs, looking at you, Navalny. Fortunately, they're in the minority. As for what politicians say, well, damn it Khadaffi's gone, he was the most entertaining!

You are calling me a racist pig?

"Dear Serbs, please accept our depleted uranium bombs with love, kindness and respect, and be more polite during book signing."

I mean, seriously? Did you read the article? They approached her, and asked her to sign their video. She said "no". And then confronted them, yelling at them. What did they do that was so impolite?

According to Serbian media they approach her to sign in which she is accussed for mass murders on Kosovo. So, if someone ask you to sign for example that your mum is a bitch you would not saying to thoose people that they are disguisting? So, according to you that was polite?

Uranium bombs Did you ever considered to listen the albanian side of story?

Expressing an opinion that's different from your own? Cause I can guarantee you, if there was no Pan-Slavism, Exi1and would have the exact same opinion. Yes, sometimes we have different opinions, so what? I disagree with his opinion, and have my own opinion. You seem to be pro-Western, so that means that you must accept freedom of speech, and Exi1and's opinions are, by far, nowhere near as bad as some other commentators.

So, you would probably not have problems if someone praise Hitler? Ok, if that your choice than ok.

Yes, there is a freedom of speech but insulting somebody like in the case of madline or provoking is also freedom of speech but it doesnt mean that you would react like an angel. Freedom of speech also requires a level of behaviour and respect toward the others. (and no, dont try with spins about thati offended somebody what Kosovo is not Serbia)

And no, i am not pro-western nor am I democrat, nor this silly pan-slavic intergration which is in fact nationalism of particular countries (it mean not all Slavs are included).

[Shofercia]

The US didn't take responsibility for the Contras, until after the ICJ convicted the US, so erm, on US taking responsibility - that's not going to happen. Russia had a recession, but it was very short, in part because of the Social Safety Net and Natural Resource taxation that Putin and United Russia recreated. If you have a diversified economy, a great education system, cash reserves, a social safety net, and a government willing to listen, or act like it's listening to the people, then you'll recover from a recession much faster.

The ECB is doing the exact opposite. It's forcing governments to cut back on social programs and to cut education funding, and it ignores the masses - so it's actually prolonging the recession. The cultural differences between Slavs are minor, yet significant, so as long as we respect each other, we can get by with our cultural differences, and in some cases, even because of our cultural differences. As for doing horrible things - so what? Should I go on a Polish killing spree cause they unjustly raided Moscow in 1610? Forget, forgive, move on. And yeah, Balkan people can identify themselves with people from the Urals, "hey, Branko, name's Vanya, let's have some vodka, eh?" - I mean it doesn't take that long. If I can get along with Georgians with wine and hatchapuri, surely Slavs can get along

Yes, I'm Russian, which makes me European. The problem with a pan-European movement is that Europeans have nothing in common, except genes and location. That won't do us any good. That's nothing to bond over. Slavs have culture, history, etc, that's unified.

From what I know, the ECB is only forcing to fund some institutions that are curently threaten longterm education funding. But,do you have some example or source for that? Yes, you and Poles had some clashed but long time ago, a different story is went it happened 20 years ago. Votka is called Rakija heere.
Anyway, I suppose you are watching hockey. The club from my city will join the KHL next year so it would be interesting how will they deal with the other clubs.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/oct20 ... -o05.shtml

Following weeks of talks with the troika, Athens presented an initial draft budget in parliament on Monday. The budget involves social spending cuts of more than €7 billion for the next year. The largest sums are to be slashed from public employees’ wages (€1.1 billion) and pensions (€3.8 billion). Additional cuts are to be made in social welfare, health care, education and public services.

Rakija, gotta remember that! And yep, I'm watching hockey, my KHL Club is Torpedo, and I think, (although I know I'm totally biased here,) that we have the coolest logo



What's your team called?

Well, if a legend says so

From what I know, Austria-Hungary repressed Slavic Culture rather fiercely. Slavs were rarely allowed limited autonomy. As the A-H Empire became weaker, the Slavs broke out and declared independence. If they were treated so well, why rebel?

Well, as I said already the main destabilisating factor in A-U was Hungary. You see the monarchy was from 1866 divided into the Hungarian and Austrian part. Easch this part had its own government and rules. Now, thoose in the Hungarian part which was more undemocratic and slavic vote (like in Slovakia for example) was often limited and it the Hungarian part was predominantly agricultural which mean less develop. This factor helped that slavic nationalism rise.

Now, the Austrian was a different story. The Austrian part was far more democratic. The Slavs had their representatives in the parliament and the austrian was industralised. This helped slavic states to flourish but since the Hungarian part made a bad impression slavic nationalism spread throughout the monarhy. Now, in general the A-U monarhy in general had it bad sides but in compare to the years after WWI it was a better place and many people were nostalgic the monarhy (just like some people are today nostalgic for the times of communism and dissapointed in capitalism).

I guess it makes sense if you grew up in one of the more benign Austrian places, but in most of A-H, it wasn't good. I think that the only way A-H could've survived is that if they allowed regional autonomy, and adherence to a national army. But they were too scared to allow regional autonomy in some places, so...

Thing about Kosovo, is that not all of the EU recognizes it. Slovakia, Spain, Greece, Romania and Cyprus are EU members that don't recognize Kosovo. Despite being in NATO, the quartet, (minus Cyprus,) isn't forced to recognize Kosovo. On the other hand, Serbia is.

Well, in recent future more than half UN nation will recognise Kosovo as a independent state and yet it will never enter in the UN as a full member. And yet, you would probably not complain about it.

The main reason is that most of the Serbs living in North Kosovo view Thaci as a butcher, and don't want to be forcibly transferred under his control. I don't want Russians under the control of foreigners, (unless Russians voluntarily move there,) why would I force the Serbs, or other human beings, to do the same? North Kosovo is better off under Serbia, let it stay that way.

Except Franz Ferdinand wasn't smart enough to pull it off. Woodrow Wilson had a good plan, which turned into an utter failure. Also, Tito was a Croat, and wasn't a nationalist, so he'd do ok.

Well, that is the reason why he was shoot to dead. Besides. He was a nationalists, but a Yugoslav nationalist.Tito had a good foreign policy but the internal policy was something different. During his early age he was a Austr-Hungarian soldier and fought on the Eastern front and later in the Russian civil war.You should know during the Russian civils wars, croats fought for the Red Army while the Serbian for the White Army.

I believe that some Serbs fought for the Red Army as well, just as some Croats fought for the White Army. Tito fought in WWI, bravely, but foolishly. In the Russian Civil War - that's where he learned how to fight, and the knowledge would serve him well in liberating Yugoslavia from Nazi scum!

[Shofercia]

And some Russian Nationalists are racist pigs, looking at you, Navalny. Fortunately, they're in the minority. As for what politicians say, well, damn it Khadaffi's gone, he was the most entertaining!

You are calling me a racist pig?

No. I was responding to the foolish claim that we should pay attention every time some nationalists said something bad. That had nothing to do with you. By Navalny I was referring to Alexey Navalny, who said somethign along the lines "let the Caucasian scum slaughter each other, that's all they're capable of". I think he's now in jail for money laundering.

"Dear Serbs, please accept our depleted uranium bombs with love, kindness and respect, and be more polite during book signing."

I mean, seriously? Did you read the article? They approached her, and asked her to sign their video. She said "no". And then confronted them, yelling at them. What did they do that was so impolite?

According to Serbian media they approach her to sign in which she is accussed for mass murders on Kosovo. So, if someone ask you to sign for example that your mum is a bitch you would not saying to thoose people that they are disguisting? So, according to you that was polite?

Uranium bombs Did you ever considered to listen the albanian side of story?

They were accusing her, and as a politician, she should have thicker skin. If someone asked me to sign a video that says "Shofercia is a bitch" I wouldn't care. And their accusations were on point. And I said depleted uranium bombs, which were dropped on Belgrade, in part because of Albright's policy. And yeah, I've considered the moderate Albanian side of the story. Too bad some of them are in jail, while Thaci and thugs roam free.

Expressing an opinion that's different from your own? Cause I can guarantee you, if there was no Pan-Slavism, Exi1and would have the exact same opinion. Yes, sometimes we have different opinions, so what? I disagree with his opinion, and have my own opinion. You seem to be pro-Western, so that means that you must accept freedom of speech, and Exi1and's opinions are, by far, nowhere near as bad as some other commentators.

So, you would probably not have problems if someone praise Hitler? Ok, if that your choice than ok.

Yes, there is a freedom of speech but insulting somebody like in the case of madline or provoking is also freedom of speech but it doesnt mean that you would react like an angel. Freedom of speech also requires a level of behaviour and respect toward the others. (and no, dont try with spins about thati offended somebody what Kosovo is not Serbia)

And no, i am not pro-western nor am I democrat, nor this silly pan-slavic intergration which is in fact nationalism of particular countries (it mean not all Slavs are included).

No, praising Hitler would not be ok, since he tried to wipe out our entire ethnicity or race from the Earth. That's bad. However, neither Mladic nor Karadzic killed millions due to their Genocidal policies, so with me, Hitler's the exception, not the rule. About the only exception. If someone were to praise Gorbachev or Stalin, I think they'd be an idiot, but I wouldn't be offended by it.

And it's Pan-Slavism, not Pan-Slavic Integration. It's mostly based on Free Will; the only thing we're saying is "don't attack other Slavs" - that's about the only thing that we're forcing you to do. The rest is Free Will. Which Slavs are we excluding? I want to know, whom are we excluding?