Understanding Leftist Mentality

[Yandere Schoolgirls]

We all know there are millions of people doing this in the United States. Some of them aren't even legitimately poor.

We need sources, Wirbel. Evidence of widespread welfare abuse in the United States? "We all know it's happening" isn't sufficient.

Some sources brah

Welfare being used at casinos and strippers, brah A second source brah incase you thought the first one was bias

Another source for you brah

this movie is called precious brah it's about a girl who spent her welfare on fried chicken

[Wikkiwallana]

Now comes the hard part: how are you going to do that? How are you going to distinguish the leech from the legitimate?

Those who are between the ages of eighteen and sixty-five (not a minor or a senior) and are not sufferng from a debilitating illness or injury should not be entitled to receive welfare.

I must vehemently disagree.

[Nidaria]

Those who are between the ages of eighteen and sixty-five (not a minor or a senior) and are not sufferng from a debilitating illness or injury should not be entitled to receive welfare.

What if they are impoverished and can't find a job no matter how hard they try? What if they are homeless and can only find work at (I was going to say McDonalds, but my teacher told us that it actually looks good on a resumé) a movie theatre concession stand?

You do know that there are plenty of charities and churches that would help them. There are too few of the people you described to overwhelm the charities, so do not even try that arguement.

[Khadgar]

Agreed, now, you said millions. Do source that.

What? Why? What if there's no jobs available? Under the above you'd get cut from welfare for reasons out of your control.

Then we have a good old revolution. It's been a while.

[San-Silvacian]

What? Why? What if there's no jobs available? Under the above you'd get cut from welfare for reasons out of your control.

Then we have a good old revolution. It's been a while.

Can we bust out the guillotine?!

[Tlaceceyaya]

What if they are impoverished and can't find a job no matter how hard they try? What if they are homeless and can only find work at (I was going to say McDonalds, but my teacher told us that it actually looks good on a resumé) a movie theatre concession stand?

You do know that there are plenty of charities and churches that would help them. There are too few of the people you described to overwhelm the charities, so do not even try that arguement.

Charities are unreliable. Besides, people with your attitude almost certainly wouldn't donate to them. And if what you suggest were passed, the majority would probably have your attitude.

[Trotskylvania]

We need sources, Wirbel. Evidence of widespread welfare abuse in the United States? "We all know it's happening" isn't sufficient.

Some sources brah

Welfare being used at casinos and strippers, brah A second source brah incase you thought the first one was bias

Another source for you brah

this movie is called precious brah it's about a girl who spent her welfare on fried chicken

1. The plural of anecdote is not data.
2. Sensationalist newstories like this are seldom substantiated, and usually serve to promote an editorial agenda, or get people to buy more copy, not actually inform.
3. WTF were you thinking in citing a work of fiction. Even if it were true, are you really going to begrudge someone on TANF benefits the occaisional bucket of fried chicken?

This really is despicable behavior, and I question whether or not you're actually serious and not a troll.

[The Black Forrest]

What if they are impoverished and can't find a job no matter how hard they try? What if they are homeless and can only find work at (I was going to say McDonalds, but my teacher told us that it actually looks good on a resumé) a movie theatre concession stand?

You do know that there are plenty of charities and churches that would help them. There are too few of the people you described to overwhelm the charities, so do not even try that arguement.

Care to back the claim up?

The charities out here are reporting lack of funds. The churches do more "feel good" short term stuff. Some go for the long haul but they are few......

[Neutraligon]

Now comes the hard part: how are you going to do that? How are you going to distinguish the leech from the legitimate?

Those who are between the ages of eighteen and sixty-five (not a minor or a senior) and are not sufferng from a debilitating illness or injury should not be entitled to receive welfare.

What about students in college or graduate school. What about those who are working but don't make enough money to support themselves? What about homeless who find it almost impossible to find a job because they are homeless. What if there aren't enough jobs, what if there isn't a job in your field? There are so many problems with that thought. Next, how do you prove it?

[Norstal]

this movie is called precious brah it's about a girl who spent her welfare on fried chicken

And this movie clearly proves that capitalism is slavery and conservatives are out to destroy us all.

[Trotskylvania]

What if they are impoverished and can't find a job no matter how hard they try? What if they are homeless and can only find work at (I was going to say McDonalds, but my teacher told us that it actually looks good on a resumé) a movie theatre concession stand?

You do know that there are plenty of charities and churches that would help them. There are too few of the people you described to overwhelm the charities, so do not even try that arguement.

A homeless man came through my home town in Montana not long ago. He was a hardworking, decent guy, just looking for work, and my brother's employer happily let him work at the lumberyard for a day for a day's pay, because he's a pretty good guy. The local churches and charities, on the other hand, complained to the sheriff, and got the police to run this poor guy out of town. These good Christian folk pre-emptively turned a way the person who was most in need in the town, which was largely unhit by the recession.

Forgive me if I'm not willing to trust such people with the wellbeing of the dispossessed. Because at it's best, charity is something people do to make themselves feel better about themselves. More usually, it's a form of patronage used to advance an agenda, and perpetuate the evils the produce poverty.

[Lackland]

Those who are between the ages of eighteen and sixty-five (not a minor or a senior) and are not sufferng from a debilitating illness or injury should not be entitled to receive welfare.

That's...one way to do it. Unfortunately you've constructed a system that entirely fails to account for the fact that not everyone between the ages of 18 and 65 living on tightly fixed (or entirely absent) incomes and reliant on services such as food and rent assistance is a welfare cheat. Are you proposing that young people who can't make ends meet invariably deserve no assistance?

It seems to me you're using a sledgehammer when you need to use a fine point. While your suggestion is certainly an option, it's not what I would do. What I would do is provide food, rent assistance, and so on while demanding some sort of community service in return to offset the costs. If those people you're trying to get rid of are truly as lazy as you say, they'll be driven into "real jobs" because welfare has work associated with it. I could fine-tune my suggestion, but that's the general principle: working for welfare.

This acute problem is the symptom of better mental-health screening, whereby individuals are now diagnosed with these problems at a younger age. This allows fully capable individuals ( 18-30 )to take advantage of services, while using said illness as a crutch to receive state and government assistance. There needs to be more focus on counseling and other services, whereby those individuals capable of working are put into the work force, while those that aren't can continue to receive their aid. I'm not going to dispute that members of this subset are lazy, in fact quite a few seem intent to live off the state. It's somewhat disturbing to hear that, but at the same time the state provides them with what would barely qualify as subsistence level income ( these people are living well below the poverty line ).

Of course we cannot keep throwing money away without fixing the problem. Technology easily enables us to better screen recipients of state aid, and with a properly trained and adequately staffed welfare department those who leech off the system can be caught faster. Technology would also enable us to better aid recipients in seeking job training or re-training so that these individuals can also be weened off of state assistance faster. Retirement ages should be retooled as well, and based upon the type of work one does ( such that one doing heavy physical labor may retire at a younger age than say a doctor ).

[Khadgar]

What if they are impoverished and can't find a job no matter how hard they try? What if they are homeless and can only find work at (I was going to say McDonalds, but my teacher told us that it actually looks good on a resumé) a movie theatre concession stand?

You do know that there are plenty of charities and churches that would help them. There are too few of the people you described to overwhelm the charities, so do not even try that arguement.

So the overtaxed charities at the moment are caused by? All the welfare cheats that aren't reliant on charity?

[Laerod]

You do know that there are plenty of charities and churches that would help them. There are too few of the people you described to overwhelm the charities, so do not even try that arguement.

A homeless man came through my home town in Montana not long ago. He was a hardworking, decent guy, just looking for work, and my brother's employer happily let him work at the lumberyard for a day for a day's pay, because he's a pretty good guy. The local churches and charities, on the other hand, complained to the sheriff, and got the police to run this poor guy out of town. These good Christian folk pre-emptively turned a way the person who was most in need in the town, which was largely unhit by the recession.

Forgive me if I'm not willing to trust such people with the wellbeing of the dispossessed. Because at it's best, charity is something people do to make themselves feel better about themselves. More usually, it's a form of patronage used to advance an agenda, and perpetuate the evils the produce poverty.

I gotta say here that not all people or even Christians are like that. I've worked for the catholic charitable organization Caritas and it actually does work with people that need it. Same goes for the protestant equivalent Diakonie.

[Norstal]

You do know that there are plenty of charities and churches that would help them. There are too few of the people you described to overwhelm the charities, so do not even try that arguement.

So the overtaxed charities at the moment are caused by? All the welfare cheats that aren't reliant on charity?

No, the poster is saying that there aren't enough poor people to overtax them, the charities and "churches".

Which is hilarious.

[Laerod]

You do know that there are plenty of charities and churches that would help them. There are too few of the people you described to overwhelm the charities, so do not even try that arguement.

So the overtaxed charities at the moment are caused by? All the welfare cheats that aren't reliant on charity?

I like how there's millions of welfare cheats and that they won't overwhelm the charities.

[Khadgar]

So the overtaxed charities at the moment are caused by? All the welfare cheats that aren't reliant on charity?

I like how there's millions of welfare cheats and that they won't overwhelm the charities.

As did I, hence why I felt the need to point it out.

[Numer]

1. Read encyclopedia dramatica articles on both parties and nationstates
2. Laugh
3. Realize nationstates' overwhelming majority of leftist thinkers. If your a liberal thinker, bash the crap out of every thread even remotely advertising a conservative agenda.
4. ?????
5. PROFIT!

[Hittanryan]

What if they are impoverished and can't find a job no matter how hard they try? What if they are homeless and can only find work at (I was going to say McDonalds, but my teacher told us that it actually looks good on a resumé) a movie theatre concession stand?

You do know that there are plenty of charities and churches that would help them. There are too few of the people you described to overwhelm the charities, so do not even try that arguement.

Funny story that, they're already overwhelmed, and there has never been a point in modern history when charity alone was enough to make an appreciable dent in poverty.

[Wikkiwallana]

You do know that there are plenty of charities and churches that would help them. There are too few of the people you described to overwhelm the charities, so do not even try that arguement.

Care to back the claim up?

The charities out here are reporting lack of funds. The churches do more "feel good" short term stuff. Some go for the long haul but they are few......

Interesting all this concern about people defrauding welfare, but I have yet to see any about charities defrauding donors or charity managers embezzling the shit out of the funds.

[Neutraligon]

That's...one way to do it. Unfortunately you've constructed a system that entirely fails to account for the fact that not everyone between the ages of 18 and 65 living on tightly fixed (or entirely absent) incomes and reliant on services such as food and rent assistance is a welfare cheat. Are you proposing that young people who can't make ends meet invariably deserve no assistance?

It seems to me you're using a sledgehammer when you need to use a fine point. While your suggestion is certainly an option, it's not what I would do. What I would do is provide food, rent assistance, and so on while demanding some sort of community service in return to offset the costs. If those people you're trying to get rid of are truly as lazy as you say, they'll be driven into "real jobs" because welfare has work associated with it. I could fine-tune my suggestion, but that's the general principle: working for welfare.

This acute problem is the symptom of better mental-health screening, whereby individuals are now diagnosed with these problems at a younger age. This allows fully capable individuals ( 18-30 )to take advantage of services, while using said illness as a crutch to receive state and government assistance. There needs to be more focus on counseling and other services, whereby those individuals capable of working are put into the work force, while those that aren't can continue to receive their aid. I'm not going to dispute that members of this subset are lazy, in fact quite a few seem intent to live off the state. It's somewhat disturbing to hear that, but at the same time the state provides them with what would barely qualify as subsistence level income ( these people are living well below the poverty line ).

Of course we cannot keep throwing money away without fixing the problem. Technology easily enables us to better screen recipients of state aid, and with a properly trained and adequately staffed welfare department those who leech off the system can be caught faster. Technology would also enable us to better aid recipients in seeking job training or re-training so that these individuals can also be weened off of state assistance faster. Retirement ages should be retooled as well, and based upon the type of work one does ( such that one doing heavy physical labor may retire at a younger age than say a doctor ).

What do you do with those who have mental illnesses such as depression, or who develop issues as they age? People who begin by being able to work for the system are not always able to do so. People develop cancer and other problems.

[Khadgar]

1. Read encyclopedia dramatica articles on both parties and nationstates
2. Laugh
3. Realize nationstates' overwhelming majority of leftist thinkers. If your a liberal thinker, bash the crap out of every thread even remotely advertising a conservative agenda.
4. ?????
5. PROFIT!

Hilarious and thought provoking. Do you have anything to add or are you just trolling?

[The Black Forrest]

Care to back the claim up?

The charities out here are reporting lack of funds. The churches do more "feel good" short term stuff. Some go for the long haul but they are few......

Interesting all this concern about people defrauding welfare, but I have yet to see any about charities defrauding donors or charity managers embezzling the shit out of the funds.

Indeed.

I have a friend who works in other countries. Clean water stuff.

He hates the Religious charities as they tended to look for the most destitute villages and portray them as the country.

Said villages rarely saw any usable assistance. He does like to tell one story of something useful. One village received several boxes of Bibles. They used them to start their cooking fires.

[Socialdemokraterne]

Some sources brah

Welfare being used at casinos and strippers, brah A second source brah incase you thought the first one was bias

Another source for you brah

this movie is called precious brah it's about a girl who spent her welfare on fried chicken

...thanks, brah? California is not the entire United States. Pointing out problems with one or even a handful of states' welfare systems does not successfully establish that the entire system is flawed and subject to widespread abuse. Also, "Precious" is a work of fiction. It's a movie based on the novel "Push". As in, the events portrayed in the movie's plot didn't actually happen. I'm going to need an actual source, not a film adaptation of a novel centered upon the life of a fictional character. Honestly, that you would even cite that is fucking insulting.

As for this one (url=http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/research/detail/welfare-fraud-and-abuse), that's the state of Pennsylvania. You've got 2/50 down, brah. You're 1/25 of the way there. And it looks like a solution to what problems there were for Pennsylvania has been found.

Prior to the Rendell Administration, approximately 47,000 cases of suspected welfare fraud were referred annually to the Inspector General. However, between 2003 and 2004, the Inspector General received about 29,000 referrals-as caseloads continued to increase. In the past four years, the number of referrals has continued to decline, with 25,802 referrals in 2009.

[Neutraligon]

Interesting all this concern about people defrauding welfare, but I have yet to see any about charities defrauding donors or charity managers embezzling the shit out of the funds.

Indeed.

I have a friend who works in other countries. Clean water stuff.

He hates the Religious charities as they tended to look for the most destitute villages and portray them as the country.

Said villages rarely saw any usable assistance. He does like to tell one story of something useful. One village received several boxes of Bibles. They used them to start their cooking fires.