Wage Slavery

[Rick Rollin]

I have a perfect understanding of the role laws play in our society, and want nothing more then to keep this current system, and change it.

Shut up you pretentious commie. If wage slavery is unfree, then communism must be turning people into hallowed slenderproxies.

[Genivaria]

I have a perfect understanding of the role laws play in our society, and want nothing more then to keep this current system, and change it.

Shut up you pretentious commie. If wage slavery is unfree, then communism must be turning people into hallowed slenderproxies.

Slender?

[Paradisiac Weltanschauung]

Oh, so definitions mean nothing now?

The fact that the American Heritage Dictionary defines wage slavery, as slavery, is totally irrelevant?

Oh how nice it must be to pluck what you want, and discard what you don't.

Anyways, the definition of the terms to be used is always the beginning of any debate...

If you aren't going to allow me to define the terms, then there is no point in even having this argument.

The thread is asking if wage slavery is equivalent to traditional slavery, not if you ideologues have thrown around enough of this hare-brained rhetoric to get yourselves mentioned in the dictionary.

Some words do not mean the same thing every time you use them. Rich soil and rich people are not rich in the same sense. A claim to land and an ideological claim are not the same thing as an insurance claim.

When someone says "slavery" without specifying "wage slavery" it is generally assumed to be the more traditional definition of slavery, not your left-wing jargon.

They mean exactly the same thing in the context provided, this is not a matter of semantics when dealing with clear contextual defines.

You don't pay your taxes, you are arrested, and lots of time your property is seized as leverage.

If you were able to willfully refuse to pay your taxes, then it would be a totally different story.

[Rick Rollin]

Shut up you pretentious commie. If wage slavery is unfree, then communism must be turning people into hallowed slenderproxies.

Slender?

Yes.

[Camicon]

Speaking as a socialist, (social democrat, whatever) I have to say I that I find getting my paycheck, cashing it in at my bank, and then ordering a Mcdouble off the dollar menu at McDonald's, WITH MY OWN MONEY.
Is pretty damn satisfying after a life of depending on my mother.

Exactly the point. Some behavioral analysis's determined (long ago) that workers (slaves), produced much more for the bankers/corporations (slave owners), if they were "happy".

So if the disgusting animal factory filth you call a "burger", given to you for an overcharge way above its actual price, makes you work harder.......

Then why not... Hell, I am sure the Neo Feudalistic rulers are just peachy letting you eat their garbage.

While we are at it, might want to thank them for what they are putting in your water also. Hydrofluorosilicic Acid, or wast from the industrial super phosphate industry (aluminum/fertilizer plants) is a great teeth whitener I am told...

"It's people. Soylent Green is made out of people. Listen to me! You've got to tell them! SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!"

If I agree to work for my employer, at a specified wage, that is not slavery. If the bank agrees to give me money, that I promise to pay back at regular intervals, that is not slavery. If I drown myself in debt, it's my own damn fault. Nobody makes you buy anything.
You make the decisions yourself, and ultimately your decisions are your own (unless you're mentally handicapped in a significant way). People that like to say society "forces them" to act in such-and-such a way simply aren't willing to take responsibility for their actions, and justify their opinion by claiming that nobody is responsible for their actions, because of the influence society holds over them.

[Norstal]

Why is it that anarchists like to ruin other people's fun?

Where do you get the basis for your assumption that I am an anarchist?

I have a perfect understanding of the role laws play in our society, and want nothing more then to keep this current system, and change it.

Not to destroy everything in some adolescent type action.....

Anyways, I understand the inherent dangers presented by an anarchical society. As they say, I can shoot, but I don't have enough ammo.

So you want a state, but you also want the non-existence of a state.

If you're going to live in a state, you will be forced to do something, whether it will be paying your taxes or following traffic procedures. You will be at the mercy of armed agents of the state in every waking moment of your life when you live in a state if you want to hyperbolize it.

Anarchists however, don't want a state. They don't want to be forced to do anything.

So, pick one.

[Phalaska]

If being paid for labor amounts to slavery, then buying french fries from McDonald's amounts to theft.

THIS!

I got into an argument with some woman at school the other day: I said that Capitalism is the natural state of man when a (limited) government takes violence off the table, because there are three ways to get things from other people: reason, money or coercion. She then said that money was a form of coercion. So I bought a $2.00 Bottle of water and then came back and told everyone how I "coerced" that poor Spanish immigrant who owns the refreshment stand to give me this water. Everyone laughed and her face turned red. lol

[Bulgislavia]

although society does hold a lot of influence over people conditioning its subjects to behave in certain ways and follow trends set forth by the dominant culture.

There isn't much room in this current dominator culture to live free from wage slavery unless you want to be a homeless bum and even then you still wont be free from money.

money is basically like this parasite on its host species, modifying the species behavior, making it conduct anti human and anti environmental actions, making people addicted to it and slaves to it, money is a parasite and its infiltrated basically every layer of our society directing our lives and choices both micro and macro

[Camicon]

although society does hold a lot of influence over people conditioning its subjects to behave in certain ways and follow trends set forth by the dominant culture.

There isn't much room in this current dominator culture to live free from wage food slavery unless you want to be a homeless starving bum and even then you still wont be free from money food.

money Food is basically like this parasite on its host species, modifying the species behavior, making it conduct anti human and anti environmental actions, making people addicted to it and slaves to it, money food is a parasite and its infiltrated basically every layer of our society directing our lives and choices both micro and macro

[Paradisiac Weltanschauung]

Where do you get the basis for your assumption that I am an anarchist?

I have a perfect understanding of the role laws play in our society, and want nothing more then to keep this current system, and change it.

Not to destroy everything in some adolescent type action.....

Anyways, I understand the inherent dangers presented by an anarchical society. As they say, I can shoot, but I don't have enough ammo.

So you want a state, but you also want the non-existence of a state.

If you're going to live in a state, you will be forced to do something, whether it will be paying your taxes or following traffic procedures. You will be at the mercy of armed agents of the state in every waking moment of your life when you live in a state if you want to hyperbolize it.

Anarchists however, don't want a state. They don't want to be forced to do anything.

So, pick one.

When did I once say I wanted the non-existence of state?

No, believe it or not in a representative (true) democracy, you don't HAVE to do anything.

Mob rule is not true democracy.

[Bulgislavia]

although society does hold a lot of influence over people conditioning its subjects to behave in certain ways and follow trends set forth by the dominant culture.

There isn't much room in this current dominator culture to live free from wage food slavery unless you want to be a homeless starving bum and even then you still wont be free from money food.

money Food is basically like this parasite on its host species, modifying the species behavior, making it conduct anti human and anti environmental actions, making people addicted to it and slaves to it, money food is a parasite and its infiltrated basically every layer of our society directing our lives and choices both micro and macro

very funny, although I believe that while food is a necessity that we actually need to survive money is unnecessary and actually MAKES people think they need money to live and the current dominator culture is set up so people actually depend on money to live on. If all of a sudden money was abolished the world could still function, the industry, resources and people were still there, we just took money out of the equation.

The fact that you compare money as important as food just goes to show what a great job the parasite has done in making people believe that the existence of money is essential and that we would die without it

[Paradisiac Weltanschauung]

If I agree to work for my employer, at a specified wage, that is not slavery. If the bank agrees to give me money, that I promise to pay back at regular intervals, that is not slavery. If I drown myself in debt, it's my own damn fault. Nobody makes you buy anything.
You make the decisions yourself, and ultimately your decisions are your own (unless you're mentally handicapped in a significant way). People that like to say society "forces them" to act in such-and-such a way simply aren't willing to take responsibility for their actions, and justify their opinion by claiming that nobody is responsible for their actions, because of the influence society holds over them.

If you don't work for an employer, you starve. You have no choice, except which employer you work for.

You cant even legally grow your own food in your backyard..... unless you pay money to register your "organization", and you have to keep records etc...

"H.R.875 - Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009
SEC. 401. PROHIBITED ACTS.
It is prohibited--

(1) to manufacture, introduce, deliver for introduction, or receive in interstate commerce any food that is adulterated, misbranded, or otherwise unsafe;"

[Norstal]

So you want a state, but you also want the non-existence of a state.

If you're going to live in a state, you will be forced to do something, whether it will be paying your taxes or following traffic procedures. You will be at the mercy of armed agents of the state in every waking moment of your life when you live in a state if you want to hyperbolize it.

Anarchists however, don't want a state. They don't want to be forced to do anything.

So, pick one.

When did I once say I wanted the non-existence of state?

No, believe it or not in a representative (true) democracy, you don't HAVE to do anything.

Mob rule is not true democracy.

No monopoly of coercion = anarchy = no state.

You want no state if you want everyone to not be forced to do anything. Just ask any anarchist here and they'll tell you the same thing.

[Nazi Flower Power]

If I agree to work for my employer, at a specified wage, that is not slavery. If the bank agrees to give me money, that I promise to pay back at regular intervals, that is not slavery. If I drown myself in debt, it's my own damn fault. Nobody makes you buy anything.
You make the decisions yourself, and ultimately your decisions are your own (unless you're mentally handicapped in a significant way). People that like to say society "forces them" to act in such-and-such a way simply aren't willing to take responsibility for their actions, and justify their opinion by claiming that nobody is responsible for their actions, because of the influence society holds over them.

If you don't work for an employer, you starve. You have no choice, except which employer you work for.

You cant even legally grow your own food in your backyard..... unless you pay money to register your "organization", and you have to keep records etc...

"H.R.875 - Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009
SEC. 401. PROHIBITED ACTS.
It is prohibited--

(1) to manufacture, introduce, deliver for introduction, or receive in interstate commerce any food that is adulterated, misbranded, or otherwise unsafe;"

Nobody is going to bother you if you are just growing it for yourself.

[Norstal]

If you don't work for an employer, you starve. You have no choice, except which employer you work for.

You cant even legally grow your own food in your backyard..... unless you pay money to register your "organization", and you have to keep records etc...

"H.R.875 - Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009
SEC. 401. PROHIBITED ACTS.
It is prohibited--

(1) to manufacture, introduce, deliver for introduction, or receive in interstate commerce any food that is adulterated, misbranded, or otherwise unsafe;"

Nobody is going to bother you if you are just growing it for yourself.

Indeed, it even said that in the bill:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/hr875/text

(5) CATEGORY 1 FOOD ESTABLISHMENT- The term ‘category 1 food establishment’ means a food establishment (other than a seafood processing establishment) that slaughters, for the purpose of producing food, animals that are not subject to inspection under the Federal Meat Inspection Act or poultry that are not subject to inspection under the Poultry Products Inspection Act.

(6) CATEGORY 2 FOOD ESTABLISHMENT- The term ‘category 2 food establishment’ means a seafood processing establishment or other food establishment (other than a category 1 establishment) not subject to inspection under the Federal Meat Inspection Act, the Poultry Products Inspection Act, or the Egg Products Inspection Act, that processes raw seafood or other raw animal products, whether fresh or frozen, or other products that the Administrator determines by regulation to pose a significant risk of hazardous contamination.

(7) CATEGORY 3 FOOD ESTABLISHMENT- The term ‘category 3 food establishment’ means a food establishment (other than a category 1 or category 2 establishment) that processes cooked, pasteurized, or otherwise ready-to-eat seafood or other animal products, fresh produce in ready-to-eat raw form, or other products that pose a risk of hazardous contamination.

(8) CATEGORY 4 FOOD ESTABLISHMENT- The term ‘category 4 food establishment’ means a food establishment that processes all other categories of food products not described in paragraphs (5) through (7).

(9) CATEGORY 5 FOOD ESTABLISHMENT- The term ‘category 5 food establishment’ means a food establishment that stores, holds, or transports food products prior to delivery for retail sale.

Reading is fun. So, you know, unless you actually have a food factory...

[Paradisiac Weltanschauung]

When did I once say I wanted the non-existence of state?

No, believe it or not in a representative (true) democracy, you don't HAVE to do anything.

Mob rule is not true democracy.

No monopoly of coercion = anarchy = no state.

You want no state if you want everyone to not be forced to do anything. Just ask any anarchist here and they'll tell you the same thing.

Oh, and where did you get the definition for that?

Since all the dictionary's seem to give different definitions....

I would define anarchy as an absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose, or a lack of law, and order.

I want a state that commits to the will of the people, if everyone's interests are being listened to, then no one needs to be forced to do anything, since they made the decisions...

[Rick Rollin]

If I agree to work for my employer, at a specified wage, that is not slavery. If the bank agrees to give me money, that I promise to pay back at regular intervals, that is not slavery. If I drown myself in debt, it's my own damn fault. Nobody makes you buy anything.
You make the decisions yourself, and ultimately your decisions are your own (unless you're mentally handicapped in a significant way). People that like to say society "forces them" to act in such-and-such a way simply aren't willing to take responsibility for their actions, and justify their opinion by claiming that nobody is responsible for their actions, because of the influence society holds over them.

If you don't work for an employer, you starve. You have no choice, except which employer you work for.

You cant even legally grow your own food in your backyard..... unless you pay money to register your "organization", and you have to keep records etc...

"H.R.875 - Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009
SEC. 401. PROHIBITED ACTS.
It is prohibited--

(1) to manufacture, introduce, deliver for introduction, or receive in interstate commerce any food that is adulterated, misbranded, or otherwise unsafe;"

Because we always ship food interstate. But seriously, communism is not the answer.

[Norstal]

No monopoly of coercion = anarchy = no state.

You want no state if you want everyone to not be forced to do anything. Just ask any anarchist here and they'll tell you the same thing.

Oh, and where did you get the definition for that?

Encyclopedia and scholarly articles. A group political-science professors I studied with.

Since all the dictionary's seem to give different definitions....

I would define anarchy as an absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose, or a lack of law, and order.

There are laws in anarchy. Not everyone is forced to follow that law. Which is what you want, right?

I want a state that commits to the will of the people, if everyone's interests are being listened to, then no one needs to be forced to do anything, since they made the decisions...

In theory. But then, there'd still be a monopoly of force. Which still means that someone is being forced to do something.

Also, this sounds like anarchco-communism. There's no one to force anyone to do anything and everyone are all in consensus. Not that I'm one, mind you.

[Paradisiac Weltanschauung]

Nobody is going to bother you if you are just growing it for yourself.

Where is the term "Category x Food establishment" used in the sentence I provided?

""
(A) IN GENERAL- The term ‘food establishment’ means a slaughterhouse (except those regulated under the Federal Meat Inspection Act or the Poultry Products Inspection Act), factory, warehouse, or facility owned or operated by a person located in any State that processes food or a facility that holds, stores, or transports food or food ingredients.
""
I see no definitions for "facility, warehouse, factory", its well known that legal documents are often worded in such a way that effects much more the just the intended groups...

The Defense Authorization Act has such wording as well.

[Hippostania]

There is no such thing as slavery. Slavery implies that you are forced to do something. Working voluntarily isn't slavery. Tbh, the term ''wage slavery'' is just a term that some losers came up with to find a scapegoat for why they're not as successful as others.

[Bulgislavia]

There is no such thing as slavery. Slavery implies that you are forced to do something. Working voluntarily isn't slavery. Tbh, the term ''wage slavery'' is just a term that some losers came up with to find a scapegoat for why they're not as successful as others.

Or it could be a term to describe that there doesn't seem to be any other clear alternative then to submit to this system because our society has such an obsession with money that everything depends on it and revolves around it

[Paradisiac Weltanschauung]

Oh, and where did you get the definition for that?

Encyclopedia and scholarly articles. A group political-science professors I studied with.

Since all the dictionary's seem to give different definitions....

I would define anarchy as an absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose, or a lack of law, and order.

There are laws in anarchy. Not everyone is forced to follow that law. Which is what you want, right?

I want a state that commits to the will of the people, if everyone's interests are being listened to, then no one needs to be forced to do anything, since they made the decisions...

In theory. But then, there'd still be a monopoly of force. Which still means that someone is being forced to do something.

Also, this sounds like anarchco-communism. There's no one to force anyone to do anything and everyone are all in consensus. Not that I'm one, mind you.

According to you there is laws in an anarchical society, but its contrary to many's idea of what an anarchical society represents.

No, I don't believe laws are needed if everyone is in a consensus, however a form of representation is needed in order to reach that consensus.

Where does the monopoly of force come from if everyone is in agreement? What would need to be forced?

More like Utopian Humanism, tho I would agree in our current "state" this is unachievable.

[Norstal]

Where is the term "Category x Food establishment" used in the sentence I provided?

Most of the statements in the enforcement section only applies to food establishments. It is also implied that these only apply to those who distributes food, e.g gives food to another party. Like NFP said, no one is going to bother you unless you're growing it yourself.

I see no definitions for "facility, warehouse, factory", its well known that legal documents are often worded in such a way that effects much more the just the intended groups...

The Defense Authorization Act has such wording as well.

Well, I'll leave that to a lawyer then.

[Mr Bananagrabber]

There is no such thing as slavery. Slavery implies that you are forced to do something. Working voluntarily isn't slavery. Tbh, the term ''wage slavery'' is just a term that some losers came up with to find a scapegoat for why they're not as successful as others.

Or it could be a term to describe that there doesn't seem to be any other clear alternative then to submit to this system because our society has such an obsession with money that everything depends on it and revolves around it

Submit to what system? The system where you have to do stuff to get stuff? You think we should go throwing around the word "slavery" to refer to the fact that food doesn't appear on our table or rooves over our head by magic?

[Rick Rollin]

very funny, although I believe that while food is a necessity that we actually need to survive money food is unnecessary and actually MAKES people think they need money food to live and the current dominator culture is set up so people actually depend on money food to live on. If all of a sudden money food was abolished the world could still function, the industry, resources and people were still there, we just took money out of the equation.

The fact that you compare money food as important as food just goes to show what a great job the parasite has done in making people believe that the existence of money food is essential and that we would die without it

There is no such thing as slavery. Slavery implies that you are forced to do something. Working voluntarily isn't slavery. Tbh, the term ''wage slavery'' is just a term that some losers came up with to find a scapegoat for why they're not as successful as others.

Or it could be a term to describe that there doesn't seem to be any other clear alternative then to submit to this system because our society has such an obsession with money food that everything depends on it and revolves around it

//Punchline: Money's just a stand in.