this happened in Liverpool!?

[Anti-Social Darwinism]

Has PC gone too far in England? A Muslim woman in a hijab challenges the Christian owners of the hotel where she's staying about their faith. When they defend their faith she gets offended, complains to the police and now they're going out of business

Is their a corollary between the ability to hide behind the veil and rude behavior?

Is the hijab a form of bondage for Muslim women or a convenient shield behind which they can hide from the consequences of their actions?

I'm not anti-Muslim, but I do think that if a Muslim can't take part in a discussion without getting offended if they don't like what's being said, that particular Muslim has a problem (the same applies to Christians, Jews, Wiccans, various hyphenated Americans and anyone else who thinks that some imagined minority status should make them immune to reality).

http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/adve ... ynlsec0145

[Barringtonia]

One of those stories where I'd like to hear the whole story before commenting,

[Soratsin]

If this is true, then it's totally unacceptable. No one should have a right to not be offended anywhere they go.

That being said, this report is so loaded I'm having trouble believing it.

[Anti-Social Darwinism]

If this is true, then it's totally unacceptable. No one should have a right to not be offended anywhere they go.

That being said, this report is so loaded I'm having trouble believing it.

Well, having rechecked the article I did note it was from the Daily Mail.

[Soratsin]

If this is true, then it's totally unacceptable. No one should have a right to not be offended anywhere they go.

That being said, this report is so loaded I'm having trouble believing it.

Well, having rechecked the article I did note it was from the Daily Mail.

The headline reads "Christian hotel owners face ruin after defending their faith in row with muslim guest" It's really hard to come up with a more biased headline without resorting to outright prejudice.

Spokesman Mike Judge said: 'Important issues of religious liberty and free speech are at stake. We have detected a worrying tendency for public bodies to misapply the law in a way that seems to sideline Christianity more than other faiths. We feel their treatment has been heavyhanded and it is not in the public interest to go ahead with this prosecution. People see the police standing by when Muslims demonstrate holding some pretty bloodthirsty placards, but at the same time come down hard on two Christians having a debate over breakfast at a hotel.

I now have to collect my left eyebrow from the ionosphere, excuse me.

[Hairless Kitten II]

In the article of the link...

http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/adve ... ynlsec0145

...they speak about a Muslim that's talking nonsense about wearing her hijab.

Now, in the picture left, they show a female wearing a burqa. A burqa isn't a hijab, not even close.

[NotRust]

I'm sorry, I'm afraid the left-wing apologists are asleep, we have to wait for them before we can continue this thread.

[Kobrania]

Both parties should be shot.

Seriously, if you love your religion enough to argue with others, die and go to your freaking afterlife.

[NotRust]

Both parties should be shot.

Seriously, if you love your religion enough to argue with others, die and go to you freaking afterlife.

Ladies and gentlemen, Captain Philosophy!

[Hairless Kitten II]

There is a simple rule in business:

Never talk about politics or religion with clients.

[Cabra West]

Is that an article or a blog? It doesn't come across as very journalistic.
Also, why would tourists now shun the hotel, as implied by the article which states that the bookings went back by 80%? Were they catering almost exclusively to Muslims, or what's going on here?


Edit : Also, "Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang"? Living in Liverpool? Christian enough to be bothered to defend "their faith"? Sorry, but I smell a rat here.

[Cabra West]

Ok, searched ans found this :

Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang are charged with breaching Section 5 of the Public Order Act – causing harassment, alarm or distress. If convicted, they face fines of £2,500 each and a criminal record.

The Muslim woman was staying at the Bounty House Hotel in Liverpool, which is run by the Vogelenzangs, when a conversation arose between the hoteliers and their guest about her faith.

It is understood that among the topics debated was whether Jesus was a minor prophet, as Islam teaches, or whether he was the Son of God, as Christianity teaches.

Among the things Mr Vogelenzang, 53, is alleged to have said is that Mohammad was a warlord. His wife, 54, is said to have stated that Muslim dress is a form of bondage for women.

The conversation, on March 20, was reported by the woman to Merseyside Police. Officers told the couple that they wanted to interview them over the incident.

After being questioned on April 20, they were interrogated again three months later before being charged on July 29 with a religiously-aggravated public order offence. They appeared in court on August 14 and are now awaiting trial.

Mr and Mrs Vogelenzang do not accept that they were threatening or abusive in any way. David White, who is representing them, said that they believe they have the right to defend their religious beliefs.

Their case is being funded by the Christian Institute, which has backed a number of Christians in legal disputes.

A spokesman for the Institute said: "We are funding Ben and Sharon's defence because we believe important issues of religious liberty and free speech are at stake.

"In many instances we have detected a worrying tendency for public bodies to misapply the law in a way that seems to sideline Christianity more than other faiths."

A police spokesman said: "Merseyside Police can confirm that Benjamin Vogelenzang and Sharon Vogelenzang, both of Fazakerley, were charged with a religiously-aggravated public order offence on 29 July 2009. This follows an incident on 20 March 2009."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... guest.html

So they're facing a possible £5000 fine. Nobody's taking away their hotel.
Mind you, I find the accusation utterly ridiculous, but I will reserve my outrage for when - if - they actually get fined.

[The Scandinvans]

There is a simple rule in business:

Never talk about politics or religion with clients.

Unless that is what they pay for.

Fixed.

[Tagmatium]

Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang got into a "heated" argument with an unnamed woman wearing a hijab -- a traditional Muslim head covering -- during breakfast at the Bounty House Hotel, according to the story by the Daily Mail.

See, there's your problem.

[Terraliberty]

The Vogelenzang's were crazy for ever getting into that conversation; they're supposed to be in hospitality for crying out loud. It does seem sad, however, that this case called for any police intervention and I'm sure they would not have been in the slightest bit interested if the shoe had been on the other foot. Whatever happened to freedom of speech?

[Sitspot]

Is that an article or a blog? It doesn't come across as very journalistic.
Also, why would tourists now shun the hotel, as implied by the article which states that the bookings went back by 80%? Were they catering almost exclusively to Muslims, or what's going on here?

The Daily Mail
The hospital where she (the Muslim guest) was treated routinely referred outpatients to stay at the hotel. But when management found out about the court case they decided they could no longer recommend the Bounty House, leading to the catastrophic drop in bookings.

I'm not saying I believe it, but this is the reason given for the Hotel's 80% drop in bookings.

[RightLeaningChristians]

Is that an article or a blog? It doesn't come across as very journalistic.
Also, why would tourists now shun the hotel, as implied by the article which states that the bookings went back by 80%? Were they catering almost exclusively to Muslims, or what's going on here?

The Daily Mail
The hospital where she (the Muslim guest) was treated routinely referred outpatients to stay at the hotel. But when management found out about the court case they decided they could no longer recommend the Bounty House, leading to the catastrophic drop in bookings.

I'm not saying I believe it, but this is the reason given for the Hotel's 80% drop in bookings.

Im Christian, and I don't even want to go to a hotel where I am going to have to talk Religion with folks.

[Cabra West]

Is that an article or a blog? It doesn't come across as very journalistic.
Also, why would tourists now shun the hotel, as implied by the article which states that the bookings went back by 80%? Were they catering almost exclusively to Muslims, or what's going on here?

The Daily Mail
The hospital where she (the Muslim guest) was treated routinely referred outpatients to stay at the hotel. But when management found out about the court case they decided they could no longer recommend the Bounty House, leading to the catastrophic drop in bookings.

I'm not saying I believe it, but this is the reason given for the Hotel's 80% drop in bookings.

Hmm... you know, if I was that hospital, I might well have reacted the same way, to be honest.

[Terraliberty]

The Daily Mail
The hospital where she (the Muslim guest) was treated routinely referred outpatients to stay at the hotel. But when management found out about the court case they decided they could no longer recommend the Bounty House, leading to the catastrophic drop in bookings.

I'm not saying I believe it, but this is the reason given for the Hotel's 80% drop in bookings.

I always question The Daily Mail but, for the record, this does routinely happen. If so 80% still sounds steep.

[Sitspot]

Hmm... you know, if I was that hospital, I might well have reacted the same way, to be honest.

Oh I'm certain the hospital did react in that way. The question is were 80% of their bookings dependent on the Hospital referrals?

[Cabra West]

Hmm... you know, if I was that hospital, I might well have reacted the same way, to be honest.

Oh I'm certain the hospital did react in that way. The question is were 80% of their bookings dependent on the Hospital referrals?

Hard to say. I know some B&Bs tend to depend on hospitals or retirement homes around them, and cater mostly for visiting relatives and the like.
Never heard of a hotel that did, though.
If it's true, though, I do think that's definitely the owners' fault. Ridiculous and outlandish as the possible fine may be, you don't go around insulting your guests. It's not really good business practice.

[Terraliberty]

80% is a claim from the Vogelenzangs. Given that this incident happened in march, it's highly unlikely they'd still be in business if it was true.