Israel vs. Palestine

[Milks Empire]

Eh? if I remember it was the Arab governments that encouraged Palestinian Arab's to flee because they would get their homes after they had destroyed the Jews and kicked them out.

Spiritwolf's 'plan' is to invade the Sinai, Gaza and the West Bank, elsewhere and DEPORT ALL THE MUSLIMS RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.
I really don't think America would support Israel if they did that.

I think you underestimate America's overall collective hatred of Islam.

[New Rogernomics]

Spiritwolf's 'plan' is to invade the Sinai, Gaza and the West Bank, elsewhere and DEPORT ALL THE MUSLIMS RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.
I really don't think America would support Israel if they did that.

I think you underestimate America's hatred of Islam.

It's not hatred of Muslims, but of places that aren't America.

[Jafas United]

Hold it there. Who are you to say that Russia would join in on a war against Israel? Heck, the same could even be said for Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

If Saudi Arabia doesn't help then Iran gains further credibility and power in the local power game. Turkey would almost definitely help. Russia would at least help covertly.

You're also ignoring the fact that Israel would get help from the United States, Britain, among others.

Really? Israel invades Gaza and the West Bank and tries to deport all Palestinians and the USA and Britain will support them?

I thought you were discussing a general war involving Israel. I didn't read your whole conversation. My mistake.

Anyway, American support for Israel would depend on who is in the presidency at the time. A conservative president would be more likely to support Israel right or wrong. Not to mention the fact that there would be considerable pressure from America's sizeable Jewish population if indeed the US refuses to support Israel.

Also, in this scenario Iran would be likely to involve itself in a war against Israel. And Saudi Arabia doesn't like to be seen as on the side of Iran. So if there were to be Saudi support for the Palestinians, it would most likely be in a backroom manner.

[Jafas United]

What do you mean inevitable, all there doing is displacing one homeless ethic for another...

Inevitable as in the creation of a Jewish state was going to happen. It was only a matter of time. Other alternatives were Siberia, Uganda and Madagascar. So it comes as no surprise that Palestine was chosen to become the State of Israel.

i'm not condoning either israel or palestine atm but the idea that a ethnic group actuely needs its own nation is silly,

So you believe that Finland shouldn't exist? As with Croatia, Italy and Japan? Hell, most nations, really.

Also, Jews aren't a single ethnic group.

yes the jews suffered horribly in the holocuast but that doesn't mean they should take control of a land that another group of people live in thus displacing them...

Yes...the oldest argument in the book: "ZOMG. Israel displaced the Palestinians in 1948!" I'll have you know that the Palestinians were asked to stay and live as citizens in Israel. Instead, many chose to leave, either because they were unwilling to live with the Jews, or because they expected an Arab victory.

The fact is - Israel is here. It exists whether you like it or not. Move on.

[Rossiyan union]

Free Israel!

[Divair]

Free Israel!

From what?

[Forster Keys]

Free Israel!

From what?

Perhaps he was just offering some free Israel?

[FPCCOS]

Free Israel!

From what?

Good Point! Its Israel thats oppressing people.

[Alikhaa]

I think you underestimate America's hatred of Islam.

It's not hatred of Muslims, but of places that aren't America.

Not sure about that, if you watch the Fox News propaganda machine... Americans as a whole aren't too friendly towards Islam. I mean if you did a nationwide poll, I'm pretty sure the majority would support Israel in Spiritwolf's scenario.

But, I hope that's changing. People are becoming more aware of the truth. This is a scary time for Israel. I really recommend facing facts and trying to be more humane before the culmination of this conflict rears its ugly head as World War III. Remember, God is with the oppressed. Hasbara can't save you in the end.

Do you know what other country used to encroach upon its neighbors and be placated by world powers, until it blew up into a war and in the end almost everyone turned on it?

Yeah, it was Germany. Godwinned. (Pun intended.)

[Cestyr]

Why is anybody who supports Palestine seen as somebody who thinks all Jews should be expelled from their homeland and anybody who supports Israel is seen as somebody who wants all of the middle east under Israel? This isn't debating, this is stupidity.

[Spetznaz Assault Teams]

It's not hatred of Muslims, but of places that aren't America.

Not sure about that, if you watch the Fox News propaganda machine... Americans as a whole aren't too friendly towards Islam. I mean if you did a nationwide poll, I'm pretty sure the majority would support Israel in Spiritwolf's scenario.

But, I hope that's changing. People are becoming more aware of the truth. This is a scary time for Israel. I really recommend facing facts and trying to be more humane before the culmination of this conflict rears its ugly head as World War III. Remember, God is with the oppressed. Hasbara can't save you in the end.

Do you know what other country used to encroach upon its neighbors and be placated by world powers, until it blew up into a war and in the end almost everyone turned on it?

Yeah, it was Germany. Godwinned. (Pun intended.)

Oh uh, hi there.

Now, you'll excuse my ignorance, but I was under the impression that Israel wasn't systematically murdering millions of people.
I understand that atrocities have been committed, but I haven't seen or heard anything about death camps, gas chambers, etc.

I also wasn't aware that the countries that surrounded Germany were the ones to start the war with an invasion of Germany. In fact, I was almost sure it was the other way around.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Germany also led by a totalitarian dictator, even if he didn't call himself such?

[The UK in Exile]

Both sides are home to religious fanatics. In 'Palestine' the religious fanatics are the entire government; in Israel the religious fanatics i.e. the ultra orthodox Jews use their political power to keep the 'holy war' going because as far as they are concerned the land was given to them by god.

Exactly. Which is obviously why religion plays a big part in this conflict. That is all I was trying to get at.

if israel was a nation of atheists and and palestine a nation of agnostics, we'd still have the conflict.

[Ruridova]

Exactly. Which is obviously why religion plays a big part in this conflict. That is all I was trying to get at.

if israel was a nation of atheists and and palestine a nation of agnostics, we'd still have the conflict.

I think it's less religion and more like two little kids fighting over a box of Legos: both kids want the whole thing and aren't willing to settle for less. Except these kids are armed with bombs, missiles, tanks, AK-47s, and bulldozers.

[North Calaveras]

if israel was a nation of atheists and and palestine a nation of agnostics, we'd still have the conflict.

I think it's less religion and more like two little kids fighting over a box of Legos: both kids want the whole thing and aren't willing to settle for less. Except these kids are armed with bombs, missiles, tanks, AK-47s, and bulldozers.

well one kid with like ten others around him

[Ruridova]

I think it's less religion and more like two little kids fighting over a box of Legos: both kids want the whole thing and aren't willing to settle for less. Except these kids are armed with bombs, missiles, tanks, AK-47s, and bulldozers.

well one kid with like ten others around him

Explain?

[North Calaveras]

well one kid with like ten others around him

Explain?

Israel and then you have...well pretty much everyone in the region

[FPCCOS]

if israel was a nation of atheists and and palestine a nation of agnostics, we'd still have the conflict.

I think it's less religion and more like two little kids fighting over a box of Legos: both kids want the whole thing and aren't willing to settle for less. Except these kids are armed with bombs, missiles, tanks, AK-47s, and bulldozers.

How could you reduce this conflict whose result could influence world events to two kids fighting over a toy?

Are you trying to belittle the struggle of the Palestinians to get justice?

I do not think a two-state solution will work, as Israel would have absolute domination over Palestine, meaning that Palestine wouldn't exactly be a truly indepedent state.

I favour a one state solution that has a federal, Islamic government running it named as the Republic of Palestine. This would allow the Jewish community to have courts who rule according to the Torah and the Christian community would have courts that rule by the Bible, whilst Shariah Law would apply on Muslims. This unitary state would have a Advisory Council with representatives from the various regions and experts in various fields. The leader will be chosen by the process of the Advisory Council choosing the best candidate out of the 5 candidates chosen by the people as being the most suitable for the job. This would eliminate the elections of leaders chosen by a purely democratic process who are unsuitable for the job and who only managed to become the leader of the country by misleading the people in election campaigns. This would guarantee the religious freedom of all three communities. I think that the Jewish community has the technology to inhabit the desert, so maybe parts of the Negev desert could be given to the Jewish people as a region for them, whilst the Palestinians would return to the homes they would evicted from and regain all their land. I think a two-state solution would only result in a corrupt, Middle-Eastern Bantustan controlled by Israel which will not allow people to live free of oppression and prosper economically. The capital of this unitary state would be Jerusalem. I also propose that maybe this unitary state be joined with Jordan to form a 'greater Palestine' and that until Palestine proper has matured politically to the point where they can run their part of the country that the Jordanian government runs this unitary state as Jordan has a credible government that is approved of by both Israel and Palestine. This would also work, because historically Jordan was a part of Palestine proper, so essentially they are also Palestinians. The reason why I have chosen Jordan and not either of the present Israeli and Palestinian authorities is because making either of them the government of the unitary state would be seen by one side as powergrabing by the other side. Jordan has also participated in peace-efforts and has shown a commitment to establish peace. The Jordanian royals would also be seen as more legitimate as they are the direct descendants of the Prophet Muhammad SAW.

[Ruridova]

Explain?

Israel and then you have...well pretty much everyone in the region

I haven't seen other Middle Eastern nations do much for Palestine recently other than say, "hey, we technically support you, but you get to deal with them on your own". And the US hasn't been dragging her allies along in its "Israel is always right quest" because Obama's not on that quest, he's on a better quest to get the two sides to shut up, tolerate each other, and conform to the two state solution. So, one-on-one while all the other kids and the teachers just watch and occasionally say that they like a side without offering any actual aid.

[North Calaveras]

Israel and then you have...well pretty much everyone in the region

I haven't seen other Middle Eastern nations do much for Palestine recently other than say, "hey, we technically support you, but you get to deal with them on your own". And the US hasn't been dragging her allies along in its "Israel is always right quest" because Obama's not on that quest, he's on a better quest to get the two sides to shut up, tolerate each other, and conform to the two state solution. So, one-on-one while all the other kids and the teachers just watch and occasionally say that they like a side without offering any actual aid.

well support is easier to come by for the palestinians, afterall they don't have the Atlantic ocean seperating them from nations like iran.

[Cestyr]

I think it's less religion and more like two little kids fighting over a box of Legos: both kids want the whole thing and aren't willing to settle for less. Except these kids are armed with bombs, missiles, tanks, AK-47s, and bulldozers.

How could you reduce this conflict whose result could influence world events to two kids fighting over a toy?

Are you trying to belittle the struggle of the Palestinians to get justice?

I do not think a two-state solution will work, as Israel would have absolute domination over Palestine, meaning that Palestine wouldn't exactly be a truly indepedent state.

I favour a one state solution that has a federal, Islamic government running it named as the Republic of Palestine. This would allow the Jewish community to have courts who rule according to the Torah and the Christian community would have courts that rule by the Bible, whilst Shariah Law would apply on Muslims. This unitary state would have a Advisory Council with representatives from the various regions and experts in various fields. The leader will be chosen by the process of the Advisory Council choosing the best candidate out of the 5 candidates chosen by the people as being the most suitable for the job. This would eliminate the elections of leaders chosen by a purely democratic process who are unsuitable for the job and who only managed to become the leader of the country by misleading the people in election campaigns. This would guarantee the religious freedom of all three communities. I think that the Jewish community has the technology to inhabit the desert, so maybe parts of the Negev desert could be given to the Jewish people as a region for them, whilst the Palestinians would return to the homes they would evicted from and regain all their land. I think a two-state solution would only result in a corrupt, Middle-Eastern Bantustan controlled by Israel which will not allow people to live free of oppression and prosper economically. The capital of this unitary state would be Jerusalem. I also propose that maybe this unitary state be joined with Jordan to form a 'greater Palestine' and that until Palestine proper has matured politically to the point where they can run their part of the country that the Jordanian government runs this unitary state as Jordan has a credible government that is approved of by both Israel and Palestine. This would also work, because historically Jordan was a part of Palestine proper, so essentially they are also Palestinians. The reason why I have chosen Jordan and not either of the present Israeli and Palestinian authorities is because making either of them the government of the unitary state would be seen by one side as powergrabing by the other side. Jordan has also participated in peace-efforts and has shown a commitment to establish peace. The Jordanian royals would also be seen as more legitimate as they are the direct descendants of the Prophet Muhammad SAW.

Have you thought of a system which is fair to both Jews and Muslims?

Why do you oppose a two state solution which will let Jews and Muslims govern themselves?

[Ruridova]

I haven't seen other Middle Eastern nations do much for Palestine recently other than say, "hey, we technically support you, but you get to deal with them on your own". And the US hasn't been dragging her allies along in its "Israel is always right quest" because Obama's not on that quest, he's on a better quest to get the two sides to shut up, tolerate each other, and conform to the two state solution. So, one-on-one while all the other kids and the teachers just watch and occasionally say that they like a side without offering any actual aid.

well support is easier to come by for the palestinians, afterall they don't have the Atlantic ocean seperating them from nations like iran.

Iran's military is shit. I don't know why Israel's so scared of it, it's a rusting air force of 1970's American equipment.

[Cestyr]

well support is easier to come by for the palestinians, afterall they don't have the Atlantic ocean seperating them from nations like iran.

Iran's military is shit. I don't know why Israel's so scared of it, it's a rusting air force of 1970's American equipment.

Nobody is scared of Iran. The current military of Iraq, without coalition forces, could invade part of Iran and hold it.

[North Calaveras]

well support is easier to come by for the palestinians, afterall they don't have the Atlantic ocean seperating them from nations like iran.

Iran's military is shit. I don't know why Israel's so scared of it, it's a rusting air force of 1970's American equipment.

It's the combined forces of the their enemys around them and their insurgent/terrorist groups which they can basically fund indefinatley without fear of being struck is what makes them fear...also a theocracy with a nuclear weapon isn't the best thing for the world either

[Alikhaa]

I like the double standard here.

[North Calaveras]

I like the double standard here.

(Image)

Israel dosn't spout about murdering an entire group of people and isn't a oppressive shithole