Israel vs. Palestine

[Divair]

Aren't the Jews living in the region now indigenous? After all, most of them were probably born and raised in Israel.

Very funny.

Isn't your name just hilarious.

[Evraim]

Aren't the Jews living in the region now indigenous? After all, most of them were probably born and raised in Israel.

Very funny.

Not really.

[Spiritwolf]

So, edit: we need Avoda in Israel and Fatah in Palestine. Then we have a chance of getting the two-state solution and ending this multi-decade shitstorm?

Essentially. It was moving towards that I thought before the most recent shitstorm.

Likud and Hamas are here to stay and the only "chance" that will come of it is another war. The hatreds run too deep here for anything else. Israel needs to be pro-active and map out the borders they believe the IDF can hold and defend well and then they need to roll the IDF into the territories and take them for Israel. Deportation of the palestinian population can then be effected (to any and all nations that will welcome them). The Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and the entirety of the Sinai would be my minimum territorial goal and once the arabs/palestinians are all gone then there will be peace in Israel now and for all future generations. Negotiation is a failure. Dis-engagement is a failure. Waiting for the arabs/palestinians to initiate military action first is suicide. Waiting for the Iranians to fully develop their nuclear capability is also suicide. Israel must survive and to do so she must be bold and decisive. He who Dares Wins.

[Divair]

Essentially. It was moving towards that I thought before the most recent shitstorm.

Likud and Hamas are here to stay and the only "chance" that will come of it is another war. The hatreds run too deep here for anything else. Israel needs to be pro-active and map out the borders they believe the IDF can hold and defend well and then they need to roll the IDF into the territories and take them for Israel. Deportation of the palestinian population can then be effected (to any and all nations that will welcome them). The Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and the entirety of the Sinai would be my minimum territorial goal and once the arabs/palestinians are all gone then there will be peace in Israel now and for all future generations. Negotiation is a failure. Dis-engagement is a failure. Waiting for the arabs/palestinians to initiate military action first is suicide. Waiting for the Iranians to fully develop their nuclear capability is also suicide. Israel must survive and to do so she must be bold and decisive. He who Dares Wins.

No.

[The UK in Exile]

Essentially. It was moving towards that I thought before the most recent shitstorm.

Likud and Hamas are here to stay and the only "chance" that will come of it is another war. The hatreds run too deep here for anything else. Israel needs to be pro-active and map out the borders they believe the IDF can hold and defend well and then they need to roll the IDF into the territories and take them for Israel. Deportation of the palestinian population can then be effected (to any and all nations that will welcome them). The Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and the entirety of the Sinai would be my minimum territorial goal and once the arabs/palestinians are all gone then there will be peace in Israel now and for all future generations. Negotiation is a failure. Dis-engagement is a failure. Waiting for the arabs/palestinians to initiate military action first is suicide. Waiting for the Iranians to fully develop their nuclear capability is also suicide. Israel must survive and to do so she must be bold and decisive. He who Dares Wins.

whats the maximum territorial goal?

[Imperial--japan]

Essentially. It was moving towards that I thought before the most recent shitstorm.

Likud and Hamas are here to stay and the only "chance" that will come of it is another war. The hatreds run too deep here for anything else. Israel needs to be pro-active and map out the borders they believe the IDF can hold and defend well and then they need to roll the IDF into the territories and take them for Israel. Deportation of the palestinian population can then be effected (to any and all nations that will welcome them). The Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and the entirety of the Sinai would be my minimum territorial goal and once the arabs/palestinians are all gone then there will be peace in Israel now and for all future generations. Negotiation is a failure. Dis-engagement is a failure. Waiting for the arabs/palestinians to initiate military action first is suicide. Waiting for the Iranians to fully develop their nuclear capability is also suicide. Israel must survive and to do so she must be bold and decisive. He who Dares Wins.

Oh my god I think I love you.

[Milks Empire]

Essentially. It was moving towards that I thought before the most recent shitstorm.

Likud and Hamas are here to stay and the only "chance" that will come of it is another war. The hatreds run too deep here for anything else. Israel needs to be pro-active and map out the borders they believe the IDF can hold and defend well and then they need to roll the IDF into the territories and take them for Israel. Deportation of the palestinian population can then be effected (to any and all nations that will welcome them). The Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and the entirety of the Sinai would be my minimum territorial goal and once the arabs/palestinians are all gone then there will be peace in Israel now and for all future generations. Negotiation is a failure. Dis-engagement is a failure. Waiting for the arabs/palestinians to initiate military action first is suicide. Waiting for the Iranians to fully develop their nuclear capability is also suicide. Israel must survive and to do so she must be bold and decisive. He who Dares Wins.

So you favor them doing the same fucking thing Slobodan Milosevic did? Wow. Any respect I may have had for you is irrevocably gone.

[Evraim]

Likud and Hamas are here to stay and the only "chance" that will come of it is another war. The hatreds run too deep here for anything else. Israel needs to be pro-active and map out the borders they believe the IDF can hold and defend well and then they need to roll the IDF into the territories and take them for Israel. Deportation of the palestinian population can then be effected (to any and all nations that will welcome them). The Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and the entirety of the Sinai would be my minimum territorial goal and once the arabs/palestinians are all gone then there will be peace in Israel now and for all future generations. Negotiation is a failure. Dis-engagement is a failure. Waiting for the arabs/palestinians to initiate military action first is suicide. Waiting for the Iranians to fully develop their nuclear capability is also suicide. Israel must survive and to do so she must be bold and decisive. He who Dares Wins.

No.

I am rather opposed to the plan, although I have no problem with Mossad ruining Iran's nuclear program. I would really prefer to eschew an Israeli-Persian arms race - as would most sensible people.

[Spiritwolf]

No.

I am rather opposed to the plan, although I have no problem with Mossad ruining Iran's nuclear program. I would really prefer to eschew an Israeli-Persian arms race - as would most sensible people.

My plan is extreme, purposefully, as i believe it is cheaper in lives in the long run to fight one sharp, short fight and end the war than it is to spend the next thousand years bleeding and dying for inches. I call it a war because that's effectively what it is........ the arabs/palestinians do everything they can to kill us at every opportunity, and they will only escalate over time. I take it as an article of faith that the majority of people will not endorse such a plan until they have suffered enough to want to take direct action to end this war. As for the Persians and their nuclear plans........ any instrument that is effective should be used to kill the threat of a nuclear armed Iran before they kill us, and they will if we let them. An Israeli-Persian arms race is, in my mind, not in any way realistic. The IDF is very strong and exceptionally well led, and is deployed in a defensive posture with the ability to strike offensively at any threat/target of opportunity in any direction at any time. There is no nation or combination of nations near Israel that can take on and defeat the IDF. Persian conventional forces are, therefore, not a critical threat. An Iranian attack aircraft penetrating Israeli airspace with a nuclear device is a critical threat that should be defeated long before it gets to that stage by any and all means. When the people decide it is time then they will support taking these steps, and that will be a beautiful day indeed.

[Spiritwolf]

Likud and Hamas are here to stay and the only "chance" that will come of it is another war. The hatreds run too deep here for anything else. Israel needs to be pro-active and map out the borders they believe the IDF can hold and defend well and then they need to roll the IDF into the territories and take them for Israel. Deportation of the palestinian population can then be effected (to any and all nations that will welcome them). The Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and the entirety of the Sinai would be my minimum territorial goal and once the arabs/palestinians are all gone then there will be peace in Israel now and for all future generations. Negotiation is a failure. Dis-engagement is a failure. Waiting for the arabs/palestinians to initiate military action first is suicide. Waiting for the Iranians to fully develop their nuclear capability is also suicide. Israel must survive and to do so she must be bold and decisive. He who Dares Wins.

whats the maximum territorial goal?

Once the territories mentioned above are taken and fortified defensively I would be good with taking and holding any terrain feature that is within roughly 5 miles of these areas that offers a defensive advantage or that reduces a potential enemies ability to attack effectively. There is no need to go all the way to Hong Kong to secure Israel.

[Cromarty]

Once the territories mentioned above are taken and fortified defensively I would be good with taking and holding any terrain feature that is within roughly 5 miles of these areas that offers a defensive advantage or that reduces a potential enemies ability to attack effectively. There is no need to go all the way to Hong Kong to secure Israel.

You would cause a war at Israel could not win. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Russia, all these nations would be drawn in and Israel would lose everything it's gained.

[Jafas United]

Once the territories mentioned above are taken and fortified defensively I would be good with taking and holding any terrain feature that is within roughly 5 miles of these areas that offers a defensive advantage or that reduces a potential enemies ability to attack effectively. There is no need to go all the way to Hong Kong to secure Israel.

You would cause a war at Israel could not win. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Russia, all these nations would be drawn in and Israel would lose everything it's gained.

Hold it there. Who are you to say that Russia would join in on a war against Israel? Heck, the same could even be said for Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

You're also ignoring the fact that Israel would get help from the United States, Britain, among others.

[Jafas United]

israeli tanks crashing through peoples home are probably a bigger influence tbh

It could be. But it isn't the only influence. That is what I'm trying to say to Disserbia.

the underlined paragragh pretty much outright states that the beliefs and goals of hamas and the beliefs and goals of muslims are two separate things.

I know. But that wasn't what I was trying to prove.

[New Rogernomics]

israeli tanks crashing through peoples home are probably a bigger influence tbh

It could be. But it isn't the only influence. That is what I'm trying to say to Disserbia.

the underlined paragragh pretty much outright states that the beliefs and goals of hamas and the beliefs and goals of muslims are two separate things.

I know. But that wasn't what I was trying to prove.

Both sides are home to religious fanatics. In 'Palestine' the religious fanatics are the entire government; in Israel the religious fanatics i.e. the ultra orthodox Jews use their political power to keep the 'holy war' going because as far as they are concerned the land was given to them by god.

[Jafas United]

It could be. But it isn't the only influence. That is what I'm trying to say to Disserbia.


I know. But that wasn't what I was trying to prove.

Both sides are home to religious fanatics. In 'Palestine' the religious fanatics are the entire government; in Israel the religious fanatics i.e. the ultra orthodox Jews use their political power to keep the 'holy war' going because as far as they are concerned the land was given to them by god.

Exactly. Which is obviously why religion plays a big part in this conflict. That is all I was trying to get at.

[Cromarty]

You would cause a war at Israel could not win. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Russia, all these nations would be drawn in and Israel would lose everything it's gained.

Hold it there. Who are you to say that Russia would join in on a war against Israel? Heck, the same could even be said for Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

If Saudi Arabia doesn't help then Iran gains further credibility and power in the local power game. Turkey would almost definitely help. Russia would at least help covertly.

You're also ignoring the fact that Israel would get help from the United States, Britain, among others.

Really? Israel invades Gaza and the West Bank and tries to deport all Palestinians and the USA and Britain will support them?

[Milks Empire]

You're also ignoring the fact that Israel would get help from the United States, Britain, among others.

Really? Israel invades Gaza and the West Bank and tries to deport all Palestinians and the USA and Britain will support them?

Britain I have my doubts about. The US? Consider how much money AIPAC throws around.

[New Rogernomics]

Hold it there. Who are you to say that Russia would join in on a war against Israel? Heck, the same could even be said for Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

If Saudi Arabia doesn't help then Iran gains further credibility and power in the local power game. Turkey would almost definitely help. Russia would at least help covertly.

You're also ignoring the fact that Israel would get help from the United States, Britain, among others.

Really? Israel invades Gaza and the West Bank and tries to deport all Palestinians and the USA and Britain will support them?

Eh? if I remember it was the Arab governments that encouraged Palestinian Arab's to flee because they would get their homes after they had destroyed the Jews and kicked them out.

[Cromarty]

Really? Israel invades Gaza and the West Bank and tries to deport all Palestinians and the USA and Britain will support them?

Britain I have my doubts about. The US? Consider how much money AIPAC throws around.

Consider that the US is seen as trying to distance itself from Israel, at a time when AIPAC is throwing around more money than ever.

[New Rogernomics]

Britain I have my doubts about. The US? Consider how much money AIPAC throws around.

Consider that the US is seen as trying to distance itself from Israel, at a time when AIPAC is throwing around more money than ever.

According to whistle-blowers (including a CIA one), that's because influential members of Congress and Senate are up to their necks in Turkish government bribes and threats.

[Cromarty]

Consider that the US is seen as trying to distance itself from Israel, at a time when AIPAC is throwing around more money than ever.

According to whistle-blowers (including a CIA one), that's because influential members of Congress and Senate are up to their necks in Turkish government bribes and threats.

Good.

Equal opportunity blackmail and bribery and all that.

[Milks Empire]

Britain I have my doubts about. The US? Consider how much money AIPAC throws around.

Consider that the US is seen as trying to distance itself from Israel, at a time when AIPAC is throwing around more money than ever.

I bet threatening to yank the money from their campaigns would change the tone in one hell of a hurry.

[Cromarty]

If Saudi Arabia doesn't help then Iran gains further credibility and power in the local power game. Turkey would almost definitely help. Russia would at least help covertly.


Really? Israel invades Gaza and the West Bank and tries to deport all Palestinians and the USA and Britain will support them?

Eh? if I remember it was the Arab governments that encouraged Palestinian Arab's to flee because they would get their homes after they had destroyed the Jews and kicked them out.

Spiritwolf's 'plan' is to invade the Sinai, Gaza and the West Bank, elsewhere and DEPORT ALL THE MUSLIMS RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.

I really don't think America would support Israel if they did that.

[Cromarty]

Consider that the US is seen as trying to distance itself from Israel, at a time when AIPAC is throwing around more money than ever.

I bet threatening to yank the money from their campaigns would change the tone in one hell of a hurry.

But you have to remember that in this scenario Israel is essentially doing a Milosevic.

Would the US support what is essentially ethnic cleansing?

[New Rogernomics]

Eh? if I remember it was the Arab governments that encouraged Palestinian Arab's to flee because they would get their homes after they had destroyed the Jews and kicked them out.

Spiritwolf's 'plan' is to invade the Sinai, Gaza and the West Bank, elsewhere and DEPORT ALL THE MUSLIMS RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.

I really don't think America would support Israel if they did that.

Been happening for years with passive American government winks and nods, why would they change tact over 'just a little more'; more worrying is the 'let's hate on African's' trend that has started up in Israel i.e. Israel's Mr Prime Minister Angry Fist is at it again...last time he threatened to nuke Europe in the UN.