NationStates

Birkinghamia wrote:

Liriena wrote:So, I'm a member of:
(Image)

(...and Catholic, but that's besides the point)

Your thoughts, my friends?

What are your beliefs, specifically (regarding liberalism)?

Let's just say that, pretty much most of the liberal stereotype...that's me.
Add to that Catholic morals on the value of solidarity (socialized medicine, welfare, free public education, including universitites), unconditional love and tolerance, and minding your own sins instead of other people's (and Catholic acceptance of the theory of evolution).

In general, I see liberalism in general in a much more positive light than conservativism as it exists today. The brand of conservativism that's rampant this days is too selfish and inhumane for my tastes, even if they do share my basic religious values and beliefs.
I feel a lot more comfortable amongst liberal atheists, even when I do believe in God.

Distruzio wrote:

The Merchant Republics wrote:
I agree that you should.

But in what sense do you mean abolished the laws of the Old Testament? Where is that in scripture?

I'd have used the word fulfilled.

Then I know exactly what we're talking about. Good.

A major source of my discontent with Protestantism is that element of legalism. Although my church at least claims to be above it.

Birkinghamia wrote:

An Slanaitheoir wrote:Are all of Jesus' miracles in the Bible?

Maybe. I don't think anyone living knows the answer to that question, besides God.

"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of [his] disciples that are not written in this book." (John 20:30, NAB)

The Realm of God wrote:

An Slanaitheoir wrote:The New testament is a bible? I thought it was the latter half.

The Old Testement is not really important to the Christian as Jesus abolished the law.

"Do not think I came to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish the law but to fulfill"(Matthew 5:17, NAB)

Liriena wrote:

Birkinghamia wrote:What are your beliefs, specifically (regarding liberalism)?

Let's just say that, pretty much most of the liberal stereotype...that's me.
Add to that Catholic morals on the value of solidarity (socialized medicine, welfare, free public education, including universitites), unconditional love and tolerance, and minding your own sins instead of other people's (and Catholic acceptance of the theory of evolution).

In general, I see liberalism in general in a much more positive light than conservativism as it exists today. The brand of conservativism that's rampant this days is too selfish and inhumane for my tastes, even if they do share my basic religious values and beliefs.
I feel a lot more comfortable amongst liberal atheists, even when I do believe in God.

Sorry, but that is not solidarity. Solidarity is about caring for the person not making them a number and an expense.

Liriena wrote:

Birkinghamia wrote:What are your beliefs, specifically (regarding liberalism)?

Let's just say that, pretty much most of the liberal stereotype...that's me.
Add to that Catholic morals on the value of solidarity (socialized medicine, welfare, free public education, including universitites), unconditional love and tolerance, and minding your own sins instead of other people's (and Catholic acceptance of the theory of evolution).

In general, I see liberalism in general in a much more positive light than conservativism as it exists today. The brand of conservativism that's rampant this days is too selfish and inhumane for my tastes, even if they do share my basic religious values and beliefs.
I feel a lot more comfortable amongst liberal atheists, even when I do believe in God.

Oh really? I have to say that you're the first truly Liberal Christian that I've ever talked to

Well, you know, besides the ones that I know in RL but they're not usually all that involved in the Church.

But some of those points I have mixed feelings on...so I prefer to go with Christian Centrist, myself

An Slanaitheoir wrote:

Birkinghamia wrote:Maybe. I don't think anyone living knows the answer to that question, besides God.

"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of [his] disciples that are not written in this book." (John 20:30, NAB)

But technically, aren't they accounted for, then, in the Bible?

Birkinghamia wrote:

An Slanaitheoir wrote:"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of [his] disciples that are not written in this book." (John 20:30, NAB)

But technically, aren't they accounted for, then, in the Bible?

Then what are they? I understand what you are saying, but it stills stands that we don't know.

An Slanaitheoir wrote:

Birkinghamia wrote:But technically, aren't they accounted for, then, in the Bible?

Then what are they? I understand what you are saying, but it stills stands that we don't know.

Remember each book of the bible was separately written to itself. John alluding to other signs not written in this book, may just be referring to those written in the other gospels; Matthew, Mark and Luke.

Not that I'm sure there weren't many mundane miracles performed by Christ in his three-year ministry not mentioned in the gospels.

The Merchant Republics wrote:

An Slanaitheoir wrote:Then what are they? I understand what you are saying, but it stills stands that we don't know.

Remember each book of the bible was separately written to itself. John alluding to other signs not written in this book, may just be referring to those written in the other gospels; Matthew, Mark and Luke.

Not that I'm sure there weren't many mundane miracles performed by Christ in his three-year ministry not mentioned in the gospels.

"There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not believe that the whole world would contain the books that would be written."(John 20:30, NAB)

An Slanaitheoir wrote:

The Merchant Republics wrote:
Remember each book of the bible was separately written to itself. John alluding to other signs not written in this book, may just be referring to those written in the other gospels; Matthew, Mark and Luke.

Not that I'm sure there weren't many mundane miracles performed by Christ in his three-year ministry not mentioned in the gospels.

"There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not believe that the whole world would contain the books that would be written."(John 20:30, NAB)

Yes. That's the better quote.

The Merchant Republics wrote:

An Slanaitheoir wrote:"There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not believe that the whole world would contain the books that would be written."(John 20:30, NAB)

Yes. That's the better quote.

You are welcome.

Apocrypha tells other miracle stories: Joseph the Carpenter made a chair, but it was too small, so Jesus stretched it; Nazarene children were playing in the mud, making clay animals, Jesus made clay doves which flew away; Nazarene childern were scared of Jesus, so they ran away and hid in the baking oven, Jesus asked "What's in the oven?", parents replied "Piglets." with hilarious results.

325 AD Council of Nicaea deceed that Apocrypha was not included in the Bible.

Galborg wrote:Apocrypha tells other miracle stories: Joseph the Carpenter made a chair, but it was too small, so Jesus stretched it; Nazarene children were playing in the mud, making clay animals, Jesus made clay doves which flew away; Nazarene childern were scared of Jesus, so they ran away and hid in the baking oven, Jesus asked "What's in the oven?", parents replied "Piglets." with hilarious results.

325 AD Council of Nicaea deceed that Apocrypha was not included in the Bible.

Meh, that's because they are too fantastic. Your miracle stories have to be believable for any religion to truely set itself up for the larger massses. *nods*

*Swings thurible censer at surrounding people*

HERETICS! Apostates to the Catholic faith!

*Throws handfuls of holy water in a mad frenzy*

Terraius wrote:*Swings thurible censer at surrounding people*

HERETICS! Apostates to the Catholic faith!

*Throws handfuls of holy water in a mad frenzy*

what?

Seperates wrote:

Galborg wrote:Apocrypha tells other miracle stories: Joseph the Carpenter made a chair, but it was too small, so Jesus stretched it; Nazarene children were playing in the mud, making clay animals, Jesus made clay doves which flew away; Nazarene childern were scared of Jesus, so they ran away and hid in the baking oven, Jesus asked "What's in the oven?", parents replied "Piglets." with hilarious results.

325 AD Council of Nicaea deceed that Apocrypha was not included in the Bible.

Meh, that's because they are too fantastic. Your miracle stories have to be believable for any religion to truely set itself up for the larger massses. *nods*

If they were too nonchalant or 'believeable' they wouldn't qualify as miracles or anything worth note to begin with.

'And Jesus went and turned $20 into four separate 5 dollar bills, allowing the apostles adequate change to pay the ferry.'

Galborg wrote:Apocrypha tells other miracle stories: Joseph the Carpenter made a chair, but it was too small, so Jesus stretched it; Nazarene children were playing in the mud, making clay animals, Jesus made clay doves which flew away; Nazarene childern were scared of Jesus, so they ran away and hid in the baking oven, Jesus asked "What's in the oven?", parents replied "Piglets." with hilarious results.

325 AD Council of Nicaea deceed that Apocrypha was not included in the Bible.

And I would believe it was for good reasons

One thing I don't understand. As a devout Catholic I have one question, is purgatory mentioned in the Bible? I've read it cover to cover many times but never found anything.

An Slanaitheoir wrote:

The Merchant Republics wrote:
Yes. That's the better quote.

You are welcome.

Alright, but shouldn't Christian truth be based on the Bible so that we do know is for sure correct?

If we can use the logic that you provided, couldn't I come up with a new denomination that has rituals not ascribed in the Bible?

Besides, doesn't the Catholic Church still sell indulgences?

Bordurian wrote:One thing I don't understand. As a devout Catholic I have one question, is purgatory mentioned in the Bible? I've read it cover to cover many times but never found anything.

90% of what is held within the Catholic faith is not found in the bible, the Catholic church does not operate under 'Sola Scriptora' (Only Scripture), it takes into account Apostolic tradition (Things which the apostles and successors practiced) and Magisterial teaching/interpretation (Synod/Councils of Bishops and the Pontiffs)

Birkinghamia wrote:

An Slanaitheoir wrote:You are welcome.

Alright, but shouldn't Christian truth be based on the Bible so that we do know is for sure correct?

If we can use the logic that you provided, couldn't I come up with a new denomination that has rituals not ascribed in the Bible?

Besides, doesn't the Catholic Church still sell indulgences?

Sola Scriptora is a Protestant concept that agrees with using only the Bible as source of truth, whereas the Catholic, Orthodox, and some Anglican churches do not follow that concept and incorporate apostolic tradition.

Funnily enough- the Bible is never mentioned in the Bible itself. Weird how things work out, eh

Terraius wrote:

Bordurian wrote:One thing I don't understand. As a devout Catholic I have one question, is purgatory mentioned in the Bible? I've read it cover to cover many times but never found anything.

90% of what is held within the Catholic faith is not found in the bible, the Catholic church does not operate under 'Sola Scriptora' (Only Scripture), it takes into account Apostolic tradition (Things which the apostles and successors practiced) and Magisterial teaching/interpretation (Synod/Councils of Bishops and the Pontiffs)

Birkinghamia wrote:Alright, but shouldn't Christian truth be based on the Bible so that we do know is for sure correct?

If we can use the logic that you provided, couldn't I come up
with a new denomination that has rituals not ascribed in the Bible?

Besides, doesn't the Catholic Church still sell indulgences?

Sola Scriptora is a Protestant concept that agrees with using only the Bible as source of truth, whereas the Catholic, Orthodox, and some Anglican churches do not follow that concept and incorporate apostolic tradition.

Funnily enough- the Bible is never mentioned in the Bible itself. Weird how things work out, eh

Thanks. Guess I should have paid more attention in Catechism!

Bordurian wrote:One thing I don't understand. As a devout Catholic I have one question, is purgatory mentioned in the Bible? I've read it cover to cover many times but never found anything.

Not really. It is more of a historical trend based more apon Church rituals and doctrine rather than on the Bible. Especially if you are Catholic (which I was) you should already know that only Church ordained ministers and priests is the only ones who are allowed to interpret the text, with a standard being set by the Pope and other religious officials in the Vatican. So in essence, just because you've read the Bible, that isn't enough for you to understand the more deep meanings and relationships with God and the truest nature of the afterlife.

Of course, as an atheist I think that is all a load of bullshit... but to each their own, no?

Seperates wrote:

Galborg wrote:Apocrypha

325 AD Council of Nicaea deceed that Apocrypha was not included in the Bible.

Meh, that's because they are too fantastic. Your miracle stories have to be believable for any religion to truely set itself up for the larger massses. *nods*

A man is born of a virgin is believable? A man dies and resurrects is believable? When we eat bread and wine we are cannibals is believable?

Penn and Teller can turn clay pigeons into live pigeons every day and three times on Sundays.

Birkinghamia wrote:

An Slanaitheoir wrote:You are welcome.

Alright, but shouldn't Christian truth be based on the Bible so that we do know is for sure correct?

If we can use the logic that you provided, couldn't I come up with a new denomination that has rituals not ascribed in the Bible?

Besides, doesn't the Catholic Church still sell indulgences?

Still sell indulgences? Where did you hear that. I saw an indulgence crucifix recently, and I think that might the furthest extent of selling indulgences now a days (as it was being sold in a gift store for the Mary, Queen of the Universe Basilica down here).

I did not say anything about rituals not in the bible, you did (or the person who first asked the question).