NATION

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Christian disscussion thread

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Catholic
215
29%
Mormon
16
2%
Orthodox
52
7%
Baptist
79
11%
Evangelical
38
5%
Presbyterian
24
3%
Lutheran
50
7%
Episcopal
23
3%
Society Of Friends (Quaker)
19
3%
Other(Other denomination, not other religion, only other Christian denominations)
216
30%
 
Total votes : 732

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Orcoa
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Postby Orcoa » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:06 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
Idk, maybe when they're actual living people? Just a stab in the dark.

Stabbing them in the dark is no fun.

Pff! whatever man! I want a game where you can melt faces and make heads explode like god did in Raider's of the lost ark

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:lol2:
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The United Soviet Socialist Republic
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Postby The United Soviet Socialist Republic » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:11 pm

Orcoa wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Stabbing them in the dark is no fun.

Pff! whatever man! I want a game where you can melt faces and make heads explode like god did in Raider's of the lost ark

Image

:lol2:

I would play that game. :p
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Nui-ta
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Postby Nui-ta » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:08 pm

Orcoa wrote:
The Merchant Republics wrote:
Yeah. I'd actually be disappointed to see Constantine in heaven. As you say the epitome of a man who plays the odds to get God on his side.

He will most likely be in Limbo, since what he did was good in the long run but he did not believe it to heart.


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An Slanaitheoir
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Postby An Slanaitheoir » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:13 pm

Nui-ta wrote:
Orcoa wrote:He will most likely be in Limbo, since what he did was good in the long run but he did not believe it to heart.


Only in Catholicism, I believe.

Well, if we are going by Catholic theology, he may be in heaven, If he had all mortal sins forgiven and did reparations for the forgiven mortal and venial sins (I don't have any examples). Although as he was a politician, I doubt he did make reparations.
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Nui-ta
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Postby Nui-ta » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:43 pm

An Slanaitheoir wrote:
Nui-ta wrote:
Only in Catholicism, I believe.

Well, if we are going by Catholic theology, he may be in heaven, If he had all mortal sins forgiven and did reparations for the forgiven mortal and venial sins (I don't have any examples). Although as he was a politician, I doubt he did make reparations.


And if he isn't?
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Athartha
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Postby Athartha » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:35 pm

Born a Catholic, I was always attracted to the Clergy. In my teen years, those pesky hormones got to me and I realized I kind of like girls, a lot... And that I wanted to, maybe some day, have a child and a wife. I asked out this girl I had a crush on for a while, and we dated for 4 years. We'd even talked about getting married. However, in my senior year of high school I got in a car accident. This crash shook me up badly, and while I was in the hospital all I could think about was "am I making the right choices in my life." Long story short, I decided to go ahead and go to seminary school, where I have been for 3 years now (nearly 4)
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The Merchant Republics
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Postby The Merchant Republics » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:51 pm

Athartha wrote:Born a Catholic, I was always attracted to the Clergy. In my teen years, those pesky hormones got to me and I realized I kind of like girls, a lot... And that I wanted to, maybe some day, have a child and a wife. I asked out this girl I had a crush on for a while, and we dated for 4 years. We'd even talked about getting married. However, in my senior year of high school I got in a car accident. This crash shook me up badly, and while I was in the hospital all I could think about was "am I making the right choices in my life." Long story short, I decided to go ahead and go to seminary school, where I have been for 3 years now (nearly 4)


I know this probably won't help you any, but reading stuff like that always make me feel so bad for catholic clergy, I can't imagine a dedicated priest wouldn't make anything but a great father and husband.
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The United Soviet Socialist Republic
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Postby The United Soviet Socialist Republic » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:54 pm

The Merchant Republics wrote:
Athartha wrote:Born a Catholic, I was always attracted to the Clergy. In my teen years, those pesky hormones got to me and I realized I kind of like girls, a lot... And that I wanted to, maybe some day, have a child and a wife. I asked out this girl I had a crush on for a while, and we dated for 4 years. We'd even talked about getting married. However, in my senior year of high school I got in a car accident. This crash shook me up badly, and while I was in the hospital all I could think about was "am I making the right choices in my life." Long story short, I decided to go ahead and go to seminary school, where I have been for 3 years now (nearly 4)


I know this probably won't help you any, but reading stuff like that always make me feel so bad for catholic clergy, I can't imagine a dedicated priest wouldn't make anything but a great father and husband.

Yeah I never understood that. The Vatican should revoke its law of priests not being allowed to marry, there would be a lot less molestations.
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Prussia-Steinbach
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Postby Prussia-Steinbach » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:35 pm

An Slanaitheoir wrote:
Nui-ta wrote:
Only in Catholicism, I believe.

Well, if we are going by Catholic theology, he may be in heaven, If he had all mortal sins forgiven and did reparations for the forgiven mortal and venial sins (I don't have any examples). Although as he was a politician, I doubt he did make reparations.

You know, I've always been curious - where does Catholicism get the basis for penance? Where in the Bible does it say that we need to make reparations for our sins?
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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:41 pm

What do Christians think of The Talmud?
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Postby The United Soviet Socialist Republic » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:43 pm

Menassa wrote:What do Christians think of The Talmud?

So as a Jew you wondered?
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Bordurian
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Postby Bordurian » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:44 pm

Menassa wrote:What do Christians think of The Talmud?

What do you mean what do we think about it?
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Menassa
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Postby Menassa » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:46 pm

Bordurian wrote:
Menassa wrote:What do Christians think of The Talmud?

What do you mean what do we think about it?

Do you consider it heresy ..... do you recognize it's existence..... are you indifferent? What do you think?

The United Soviet Socialist Republic wrote:
Menassa wrote:What do Christians think of The Talmud?

So as a Jew you wondered?

hmm?
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SanctusEmpire
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Postby SanctusEmpire » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:40 pm

An Slanaitheoir wrote:
SanctusEmpire wrote:There are those of us who live in a stratosphere above those who dwell in the land of religion. Chingis Khan was one and so was Constantine. My understanding of Chingis Khan was when it came to religion he intrinsically had no problem with an individuals belief system as long as it didnt have a detrimental impact of the common harmony. If it did then he would kill the usurpers. He or his generals would conquer a city then determine whether or not to kill everyone with maintaining harmony in mind. Sometimes this meant killing everyone. If harmony meant killing all the Christians then so be it or killing or the Muslims then so be it also but harmony was the ultimate goal. I understand that Temujin dabbled in the 3 main religions of his time but held favour with Buddhism. I think under this perspective the world might be a better place

So What are you saying, that we should kill those that harm the Harmony? That is a dangerous thought, as those in Power decide who is the disruptive people. I acknowledge you may have just used it as an example, but just asking if you advocate doing what they did.

SanctusEmpire wrote:Constantine as I understand was simply an inept leader who had the fortune of realising that to control his ever converting-to-Christ army he had to become the boss of all Christians.

Or, you know, maybe he actually had a vision from God.

SanctusEmpire wrote:Held a great big meeting where at the end of it he decided what was gospel and what wasn't and hence Christianity was born. I must say at this point I don't know why the Vatican is not in Istanbul today.

I think the easiest answer I can think of is that Peter was martyred in Rome and Peter is the first pope

SanctusEmpire wrote:My point is this. Religion is relative?

Can you explain that a little better


Relative in terms of believing in a set of ideals determined by our environment. I live in a "Christian" environment therefore I will be a Christian. And without truly understanding the ideals of other religions my religion is right. I think and its only my personal opinion that this is the reason behind the Mongol approach to religion. At the risk of displaying a Mongol bias, they believed in the spiritual self to attain a better understanding of a God being so to speak. Religions of Abraham to me seem preoccupied with worrying about everyone else rather than achieving a state of mind and body that compliments their beliefs. Let me add at this point that when the Mongols massacred men women and children they viewed it as a release from the constraints of the physical self. The Templars or Jihadists for example on the other hand view it as sending a heathen to eternal damnation.

So now I have talked myself into another angle of my question "Is religion relative?" I think religion is relative to our environment but according to the laws of relativity can religion survive without paganism or a different doctrine, a set of beliefs from the other side of world perhaps?
Or is it simply that my version of good is better than you're version of good?

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SanctusEmpire
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Postby SanctusEmpire » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:48 pm

Bordurian wrote:
Nansurium wrote:Protestant movement vs Catholicism in the 30 years war.
The only Christians that I know of who fought a war over religion was the Catholic Church. However, you will find that most religious wars have practical, political purposes rather than spiritual ones. Religion is simply an excuse.


Then Religion is simply a tool used for manipulating masses to achieve non-religious goals. The Devil is truly Gods best Angel. I suspect the he truly understands the nature of man better than Jesus does :)

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The United Soviet Socialist Republic
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Postby The United Soviet Socialist Republic » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:50 pm

While I was on my cruise I bought a sterling sliver cross. Im wearing it right now.
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SanctusEmpire
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Postby SanctusEmpire » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:53 pm

I just like to say again. I prefer Jesus's version of Christianity according to the first book :)

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Stovokor
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Postby Stovokor » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:08 pm

SanctusEmpire wrote:I just like to say again. I prefer Jesus's version of Christianity according to the first book :)


Not a fan, for some reason I feel as though if the first testament version of god still did business that way I might just believe. If there's one thing our human existence proves, it's that you can respect vasts amounts of needless destruction and death.
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Birkinghamia
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Postby Birkinghamia » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:33 pm

Athartha wrote:Born a Catholic, I was always attracted to the Clergy. In my teen years, those pesky hormones got to me and I realized I kind of like girls, a lot... And that I wanted to, maybe some day, have a child and a wife. I asked out this girl I had a crush on for a while, and we dated for 4 years. We'd even talked about getting married. However, in my senior year of high school I got in a car accident. This crash shook me up badly, and while I was in the hospital all I could think about was "am I making the right choices in my life." Long story short, I decided to go ahead and go to seminary school, where I have been for 3 years now (nearly 4)

You know, Protestant denominations allow you to marry ;)
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SanctusEmpire
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Postby SanctusEmpire » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:34 pm

Stovokor wrote:
SanctusEmpire wrote:I just like to say again. I prefer Jesus's version of Christianity according to the first book :)


Not a fan, for some reason I feel as though if the first testament version of god still did business that way I might just believe. If there's one thing our human existence proves, it's that you can respect vasts amounts of needless destruction and death.


Im sorry!!!! I meant the first book written in the new testament!!! Because every other book that follows seems to be an exaggeration of the one that precedes it.

Jesus said turn the other cheek, But for some reason and some excellent public relations campaigning the crusades were justified. Same thing happens today in the name of oil. I've googled the religion of oil, interesting

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SanctusEmpire
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Postby SanctusEmpire » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:44 pm

Birkinghamia wrote:
Athartha wrote:Born a Catholic, I was always attracted to the Clergy. In my teen years, those pesky hormones got to me and I realized I kind of like girls, a lot... And that I wanted to, maybe some day, have a child and a wife. I asked out this girl I had a crush on for a while, and we dated for 4 years. We'd even talked about getting married. However, in my senior year of high school I got in a car accident. This crash shook me up badly, and while I was in the hospital all I could think about was "am I making the right choices in my life." Long story short, I decided to go ahead and go to seminary school, where I have been for 3 years now (nearly 4)

You know, Protestant denominations allow you to marry ;)


Oh my friend, go forth and multiply, marry a woman and love her and feel her love. feel the love of children, and the hurt. live!

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Stovokor
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Postby Stovokor » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:44 pm

SanctusEmpire wrote:
Stovokor wrote:
Not a fan, for some reason I feel as though if the first testament version of god still did business that way I might just believe. If there's one thing our human existence proves, it's that you can respect vasts amounts of needless destruction and death.


Im sorry!!!! I meant the first book written in the new testament!!! Because every other book that follows seems to be an exaggeration of the one that precedes it.

Jesus said turn the other cheek, But for some reason and some excellent public relations campaigning the crusades were justified. Same thing happens today in the name of oil. I've googled the religion of oil, interesting


Oh my bad but in any sense I was just being humorous.

However I will say this. I am not a big fan of Karl Marx's conflict theory or the more modern neo conflict theory as a whole but I do understand and like how aspects of it seem very spot on with basic human observation. That said I wouldn't say religion is extrinsically tied with oil of the region but simply used as a political/social mechanism used by society in order to justify actions against the people and governments of the region in order to obtain the resource or achieve some sort of end not directly related to their faith.
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SanctusEmpire
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Postby SanctusEmpire » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:32 am

Stovokor wrote:
SanctusEmpire wrote:
Im sorry!!!! I meant the first book written in the new testament!!! Because every other book that follows seems to be an exaggeration of the one that precedes it.

Jesus said turn the other cheek, But for some reason and some excellent public relations campaigning the crusades were justified. Same thing happens today in the name of oil. I've googled the religion of oil, interesting


Oh my bad but in any sense I was just being humorous.

However I will say this. I am not a big fan of Karl Marx's conflict theory or the more modern neo conflict theory as a whole but I do understand and like how aspects of it seem very spot on with basic human observation. That said I wouldn't say religion is extrinsically tied with oil of the region but simply used as a political/social mechanism used by society in order to justify actions against the people and governments of the region in order to obtain the resource or achieve some sort of end not directly related to their faith.


I didn't say Religion was tied with oil i was simply eluding to fact that oil has a religion like quality.

700 years ago, France wants to conquer the Middle East because she is broke and it appears there is financial gain in exploiting the region of Palestine. The English the Poles and the Russians are aware of this too so whose going to make the first move? If France decides to invade simply for financial gain then she will have to fight a war in Europe first and that's just stupid. Lets make it a holy war!!!! Medieval Europe has already denied the populace the ability to read unless you're born into nobility and therefore the bible is a tool to manipulate the masses. England Poland and Russia are essentially Christian so they feel obliged to oblige, France has scored themselves a winner here! As it turned out the heathens were civilised heathens the illiterate armies weren't expecting this, and they knew military strategy, Christ they invented it! So they failed in their attempt and their second and then western history sort of tries to change the subject after the 3rd attempt. However!!

The Templars grew rich and created banking. Holy war? Holy war in terms of the illiterate masses but a war of financial gain. Palastine was a focal point for trade with Asia and Europe. This is why Rome spent years trying to defeat Carthage. So after 3 failed crusades the French Monarchy decided to ostracise the Templars and on Friday the 13th strung them up and took their money.

Can you draw a parallel today?

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Distruzio
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Postby Distruzio » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:48 am

Nansurium wrote:Yes, I believe that Christ is the head of the Universal Church and ascended to heaven. Look, if you have a point to make, go ahead and make it. I don't like being led down a road via question and answer sessions when I don't quite know the direction you are taking me.


Well, with this answer we have arrived where I wanted us to go. :)

If you believe, as you say you do, that Jesus is fully God and fully Man, that Jesus ascended into heaven complete (body, mind and soul), and that Jesus is the head of the Church, then I have to wonder how you think that that Church is any less physical than He is? Further, Jesus himself said that upon Peter would he build His Church and that the gates of Hell would fail to stand against it. How can you doubt that Jesus would create a physical Church upon physical men with Himself as the head of it physically, spiritually, and mentally, and yet fail to maintain it? Moreover, if you believe that the Word is the infallible Word of God b/c it is protected by the Holy Spirit, also God, then how can you doubt when the very text of the Word states that the pillar and foundation of the Truth, also Jesus, is the Church, that it means any other Church than the only physical Church that existed at the time of the compilation of the Scriptures? Just what Church do you think the man was talking about when he proclaimed Himself the head, that He Himself would guard it against Hell, and that upon His chosen men would it be built? How could you deny that the Church he described was a real and physical thing - especially within the context of historical considerations surrounding the formulation of the scripture as I have described before?

By all accounts within the text of the scripture, by your own professed beliefs, it cannot be denied that the sola scripturist "bible alone" approach to Christianity is a borderline heretical approach that denies the position of Jesus as the head of the Church, denies the existence of Jesus as fully God and fully Man, denies the very words of Jesus Himself, and denies the words of the Bible itself. The Sola Scripturist, in claiming that the "bible alone" is all that is necessary for salvation, removes from authority the Holy Spirit and the Son - two of the triune nature of God Himself. The Sola Scripturist, in claiming that the "bible alone" is all that is necessary for salvation substitutes himself for the supreme pontiff, higher even, than God.

In the book of Acts, which you argue is the basis for your Church's hierarchy, only deacons and elders are authorized to be used by individual churches. No unifying church government, no pope. Only deacons and only elders to oversee and order the affairs of each individual congregation.



Alright. I'm a'gon' break this shiznit down for you, mmkay? Aside from the Book of Acts and the Epistles, the structure of the Orthodox (and in their own way, the Catholic) Church is founded upon the canons - regulations and decrees - established by the first seven ecumenical councils; the canons of many local councils, whose authority was recognized by the whole church; the Apostolic Canons; and the "canons of the Fathers," or selected extracts from prominent church leaders that themselves are considered to be of canonical importance. The canons were compiled into the Byzantine Nomocanon in the 9th Century.

The canons are not themselves a code or law but a view of the church, of its mission, and of its various ministries; they reflect a hermeneutic by which we can view the historical growth, or evolution, of the ecclesiastical structure as we see it today. No canon is approved without consideration by the entire Church and is rigorously weighed against scriptural and theological considerations 2000 years in the making.

There are 13 different Churches within the Orthodox Church, each with its own Patriarch. There is no singular Pope. If you'd like, I can explain the complex nature of our family of Churches and how the Catholics, Anglicans, and the other aforementioned non-heretical Protestant churches fit in.
Last edited by Distruzio on Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Distruzio
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Postby Distruzio » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:54 am

Athartha wrote:Born a Catholic, I was always attracted to the Clergy. In my teen years, those pesky hormones got to me and I realized I kind of like girls, a lot... And that I wanted to, maybe some day, have a child and a wife. I asked out this girl I had a crush on for a while, and we dated for 4 years. We'd even talked about getting married. However, in my senior year of high school I got in a car accident. This crash shook me up badly, and while I was in the hospital all I could think about was "am I making the right choices in my life." Long story short, I decided to go ahead and go to seminary school, where I have been for 3 years now (nearly 4)


Good for you! I considered the priesthood for a year or so but my Priest reminded me of my vanity. I couldn't deny that he had a point there. One doesn't choose the priesthood. One is chosen for it. ;)

I'm far to much of a prick to be a priest. If civilian life doesn't work out for me, a monastery would be the perfect place to recuse myself.
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