Hitler's Many Failures

[Doughertania]

THANK YOU! And besides, WWII was won through a combined effort, not 1 or 2 countries. Also, this thread isn't about who contributed the most or not. It is about Hitler's Many Failures.

That said, would really rather not try it without the US and USSR.

As for Hitler's 'mistakes', while numerous, some wouldn't have changed much. The classic 'attacked Russia', for example. Russia was not going to sit idly by, they were invading sooner or later.

Some others mentioned not undertaking Operation Sea Lion. I feel inclined to point out, even with air superiority, it is still extremely doubtful Sea Lion could have ever succeeded.

1. Agreed, but Britian, Canada, Australia, and other were important, but not as widely known
2. Actually, I was pretty sure that Stalin was preparing to invade Germany, but that doesn't change what you said.
3. Don't know too much about that so...

[Doughertania]

Would have taken much longer though.

And the suppies we sent in peacetime were a giant help.

Would have taken maybe a year longer. Britain would've been able to achieve air superiority, by itself, and the war would've ended slightly later.

Actually, if it wasn't for American attacks, many factories and fuel plants would be still standing then. Britian might have been able to pull it off, but still.

[Costa Fiero]

So, the Americans that died in World War 2, do not deserve your gratitude for what they did?

No and I think the whole idea was none of our business in the first place. Our involvement in the war was much earlier. We already had soldiers fighting and dying in Greece, Crete and North Africa. It was a European war. That's how the Americans saw it and I wished it was how we saw it as well.

I am certaintly grateful the Canadians, Australians, Brazilians, British, French, Dutch, Russian, Polish, Danish, Belgian, and Norwegian soldiers died for a good cause.

Good for you. I'm certainly grateful for the New Zealanders and Australians as well as most of the other allies as well for the sacrifices they made. But I still maintain that we were dragged into a war which was of no interest to us.

Yet they did not personally save my country.

You didn't save our country as well.

[New Sapienta]

So, the Americans that died in World War 2, do not deserve your gratitude for what they did?

No and I think the whole idea was none of our business in the first place. Our involvement in the war was much earlier. We already had soldiers fighting and dying in Greece, Crete and North Africa. It was a European war. That's how the Americans saw it and I wished it was how we saw it as well.

I am certaintly grateful the Canadians, Australians, Brazilians, British, French, Dutch, Russian, Polish, Danish, Belgian, and Norwegian soldiers died for a good cause.

Good for you. I'm certainly grateful for the New Zealanders and Australians as well as most of the other allies as well for the sacrifices they made. But I still maintain that we were dragged into a war which was of no interest to us.

Yet they did not personally save my country.

You didn't save our country as well.

Well, tha'ts just sad then.

WW2 was one of the few wars in which there was a clear good side.

And you should probably abandon all your allies if you don't want to help them when they need, otherwise alliance are pointless.

[IshCong]

That said, would really rather not try it without the US and USSR.

As for Hitler's 'mistakes', while numerous, some wouldn't have changed much. The classic 'attacked Russia', for example. Russia was not going to sit idly by, they were invading sooner or later.

Some others mentioned not undertaking Operation Sea Lion. I feel inclined to point out, even with air superiority, it is still extremely doubtful Sea Lion could have ever succeeded.

1. Agreed, but Britian, Canada, Australia, and other were important, but not as widely known

You said 1-2 countries. I'd have added more, but I just chose two, because you said 1-2.

2. Actually, I was pretty sure that Stalin was preparing to invade Russia, but that doesn't change what you said.

Stalin was preparing to do...what?

3. Don't know too much about that so...

I added a link now. Hopefully that helps.
Basically, the RN is a major pain to anyone who looks at England sideways.

[Doughertania]

1. Agreed, but Britian, Canada, Australia, and other were important, but not as widely known

You said 1-2 countries. I'd have added more, but I just chose two, because you said 1-2.

2. Actually, I was pretty sure that Stalin was preparing to invade Russia, but that doesn't change what you said.

Stalin was preparing to do...what?

3. Don't know too much about that so...

I added a link now. Hopefully that helps.
Basically, the RN is a major pain to anyone who looks at England sideways.

1. True, my bad
2. Yep, according to my book anyway. Also, Russia was the one who gave Germany an air force and trained their troops.
3. Thank you. It looks interesting. I will read it when I have some more time.

[IshCong]

You said 1-2 countries. I'd have added more, but I just chose two, because you said 1-2.



Stalin was preparing to do...what?



I added a link now. Hopefully that helps.
Basically, the RN is a major pain to anyone who looks at England sideways.

1. True, my bad
2. Yep, according to my book anyway. Also, Russia was the one who gave Germany an air force and trained their troops.
3. Thank you. It looks interesting. I will read it when I have some more time.

No, really, what's this about Stalin invading Russia?

[Costa Fiero]

Well, tha'ts just sad then.

WW2 was one of the few wars in which there was a clear good side.

And you should probably abandon all your allies if you don't want to help them when they need, otherwise alliance are pointless.

It was a war with a clear good side, I'm not denying that (even though some actions were questionable. Dresden and Montecassino come to mind), but it was a war that could have easily been prevented. Britian and France's pandering to Hitler's wishes is the sole reason as to why war broke out in the first place. If Chamberlain and his French counterpart actually had spines, they would have stood up to Hitler. He knew that if they chose to, Britian and France could easily crush Hitler's army and any ambitions for territorial expansion.

Foresight is an aspect of the mind inherently absent in mankind.

[New Sapienta]

You said 1-2 countries. I'd have added more, but I just chose two, because you said 1-2.



Stalin was preparing to do...what?



I added a link now. Hopefully that helps.
Basically, the RN is a major pain to anyone who looks at England sideways.

2. Yep, according to my book anyway. Also, Russia was the one who gave Germany an air force and trained their troops.

What?

[Costa Fiero]

What?

It's true. The German Panzer commanders trained in the Soviet Union prior to Hitler's flouting of the Versailles treaty. Not sure about the pilots in the Luftwaffe.

[New Sapienta]

Well, tha'ts just sad then.

WW2 was one of the few wars in which there was a clear good side.

And you should probably abandon all your allies if you don't want to help them when they need, otherwise alliance are pointless.

It was a war with a clear good side, I'm not denying that (even though some actions were questionable. Dresden and Montecassino come to mind), but it was a war that could have easily been prevented. Britian and France's pandering to Hitler's wishes is the sole reason as to why war broke out in the first place. If Chamberlain and his French counterpart actually had spines, they would have stood up to Hitler. He knew that if they chose to, Britian and France could easily crush Hitler's army and any ambitions for territorial expansion.

Foresight is an aspect of the mind inherently absent in mankind.

Then don't blame the soldiers, blame the politicians.

I'm not saying you should get on your knees and kiss our feet, but a little respect for the dead(even for a great deal of the Germans, who were not all nazis) is appropriate.
Of course, this should not be used as an excuse by Americans to get respect, only for those who fought.

[Doughertania]

2. Yep, according to my book anyway. Also, Russia was the one who gave Germany an air force and trained their troops.

What?

Yeah. It's only a theory, but *shrug*

[New Sapienta]

What?

It's true. The German Panzer commanders trained in the Soviet Union prior to Hitler's flouting of the Versailles treaty. Not sure about the pilots in the Luftwaffe.

But, Stalin invading Russia?

[IshCong]

It was a war with a clear good side, I'm not denying that (even though some actions were questionable. Dresden and Montecassino come to mind), but it was a war that could have easily been prevented. Britian and France's pandering to Hitler's wishes is the sole reason as to why war broke out in the first place. If Chamberlain and his French counterpart actually had spines, they would have stood up to Hitler. He knew that if they chose to, Britian and France could easily crush Hitler's army and any ambitions for territorial expansion.

Foresight is an aspect of the mind inherently absent in mankind.

Then don't blame the soldiers, blame the politicians.

I'm not saying you should get on your knees and kiss our feet, but a little respect for the dead(even for a great deal of the Germans, who were not all nazis) is appropriate.
Of course, this should not be used as an excuse by Americans to get respect, only for those who fought.

And for those soldiers of good moral standing* who fought on all sides of the war.

*By the standards of war, naturally.

[Doughertania]

*

[Costa Fiero]

Then don't blame the soldiers, blame the politicians.

I am blaming the politicians. Their lack of spines in the face of hollow audacity is the reason why 52 million people lost their lives.

Of course, this should not be used as an excuse by Americans to get respect, only for those who fought.

Apparently "saving our asses" is one of the reasons why we ended up in Korea and Vietnam.

[IshCong]

But, Stalin invading Russia?

Wait, no, I ment Germany. Germany! Better edit that.

That makes much more sense.
And, yeah, he was. Turns out, Commies and Nazis don't get along. Shocking, I know.

[Forsher]

Although NS isn't a necessarily military -savvy place, I thought I would make a thread on the failures that prevented Hitler's victory in WW2. Here we go:

-Invasion of Soviet Unoin
-Failure to provide suffecient forces to Erwin Rommel in North Africa
-Failure to occupy Dunkirk before BEF and French could escape
-Failure to seize lighty-defended Middle east, granting almost unlimited oil supplies
-Failure to assault Malta
-Order the bombing of British cities
-Failure to occupy French colonies, allowing Germans to occupy Spanish Morocco with our much trouble and use Luftwaffe to gain control of Gibraltar

and some more.

What are your thoughts, NS? Is this a viable list, or do you dispute some of my points?

Making fryends with Japan...

Really Rommel fell apart because he needed a much better supply line for his strategy. Or perhaps he needed to use a better strategy...

[IshCong]

Although NS isn't a necessarily military -savvy place, I thought I would make a thread on the failures that prevented Hitler's victory in WW2. Here we go:

-Invasion of Soviet Unoin
-Failure to provide suffecient forces to Erwin Rommel in North Africa
-Failure to occupy Dunkirk before BEF and French could escape
-Failure to seize lighty-defended Middle east, granting almost unlimited oil supplies
-Failure to assault Malta
-Order the bombing of British cities
-Failure to occupy French colonies, allowing Germans to occupy Spanish Morocco with our much trouble and use Luftwaffe to gain control of Gibraltar

and some more.

What are your thoughts, NS? Is this a viable list, or do you dispute some of my points?

Making fryends with Japan...

Really Rommel fell apart because he needed a much better supply line for his strategy. Or perhaps he needed to use a better strategy...

Not sure how Hitler was supposed to fix Rommel's resupply issues...

[Forsher]

Making fryends with Japan...

Really Rommel fell apart because he needed a much better supply line for his strategy. Or perhaps he needed to use a better strategy...

Not sure how Hitler was supposed to fix Rommel's resupply issues...

Well, ideally he would find another capable commander, either to replace Rommel or take over his supply lines.

[Hardened Pyrokinetics]

Not sure how Hitler was supposed to fix Rommel's resupply issues...

Well, ideally he would find another capable commander, either to replace Rommel or take over his supply lines.

How, exactly, was Rommel at fault for the Royal Navy owning the Mediterranean?

[The UK in Exile]

Well, ideally he would find another capable commander, either to replace Rommel or take over his supply lines.

How, exactly, was Rommel at fault for the Royal Navy owning the Mediterranean?

launching an offensive you don't have supplies for isn't clever.

[IshCong]

Well, ideally he would find another capable commander, either to replace Rommel or take over his supply lines.

How, exactly, was Rommel at fault for the Royal Navy owning the Mediterranean?

Yeah, I'm with Pyro on this one.
That wasn't a situation that could have been fixed merely by swapping out commanders in Africa.
I'm still not seeing how Hitler could have fixed Rommel's supply problems.

[IshCong]

How, exactly, was Rommel at fault for the Royal Navy owning the Mediterranean?

launching an offensive you don't have supplies for isn't clever.

That's rather different than fixing the supply lines, isn't it.

[The UK in Exile]

launching an offensive you don't have supplies for isn't clever.

That's rather different than fixing the supply lines, isn't it.

indeed it is.

there are two solutions to the problem, send more supplies or use less supplies.

since A wasn't going to happen option B was the only one possible. since rommel didn't give a shit about supplies, he needed to go. as it is he used up all his supplies then declared he was shocked! shocked! that there were difficulties in getting more.