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Is There a God?

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Demphor
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Postby Demphor » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:13 am

Transhuman Proteus wrote:Have more faith in you (its ok to still believe).


Are you kidding, I have to drag my Scout troop kicking and screaming through the woods.
Having faith in myself is pretty much mandatory if I'm gonna survive without breaking down.
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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:13 am

Nouvelle-Albion wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:And all of those are as worthless as religious ones because they lack evidence.


I am sure they do have evidence, you chose just to ignore them, or approach them with the a priori opinion that they are all rubbish.


Saying they have evidence=/=there being evidence.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Nouvelle-Albion
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Postby Nouvelle-Albion » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:13 am

Person012345 wrote:
Nouvelle-Albion wrote:
I am sure they do have evidence, you chose just to ignore them, or approach them with the a priori opinion that they are all rubbish.

They don't. There is one that I believe makes some sense hypothetically, however it does lack evidence for it's 2 central premises in reality.


I have never seen them, so I cannot judge, however, there is a tendency for people to approach any argument with an a priori opinion, and, in considering the 'evidence' rather than judge it objectively, let their a priori opinions influance their consideration.

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Tyconna
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Postby Tyconna » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:14 am

Hell yeah there's a God!

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Nouvelle-Albion
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Postby Nouvelle-Albion » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:16 am

Person012345 wrote:
Nouvelle-Albion wrote:So, the question still stands, where does Atheism starts and theism ends.

I already answered. On your example scale, 0.

That only applies if you stick rigidly to the scale though, but since your scale is extremely ill defined...


Yet, your definition of belief and disbelief is also ill defined. I say that there are degrees of belief and disbelief- or rather, varying degrees of belief in the plausibiity of a statement- is based upon one's certainty of a proposition.

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Lilliburlero (Ancient)
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Postby Lilliburlero (Ancient) » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:17 am

Tyconna wrote:Hell yeah there's a God!


No, there are Gods.

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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:20 am

Nouvelle-Albion wrote:
Person012345 wrote:I already answered. On your example scale, 0.

That only applies if you stick rigidly to the scale though, but since your scale is extremely ill defined...


Yet, your definition of belief and disbelief is also ill defined. I say that there are degrees of belief and disbelief- or rather, varying degrees of belief in the plausibiity of a statement- is based upon one's certainty of a proposition.


Considering knowledge and belief are two different things, no.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Transhuman Proteus
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Postby Transhuman Proteus » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:21 am

Demphor wrote:
Transhuman Proteus wrote:Have more faith in you (its ok to still believe).


Are you kidding, I have to drag my Scout troop kicking and screaming through the woods.
Having faith in myself is pretty much mandatory if I'm gonna survive without breaking down.


Hence why I said more.

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Person012345
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Postby Person012345 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:23 am

Nouvelle-Albion wrote:
Person012345 wrote:They don't. There is one that I believe makes some sense hypothetically, however it does lack evidence for it's 2 central premises in reality.


I have never seen them, so I cannot judge, however, there is a tendency for people to approach any argument with an a priori opinion, and, in considering the 'evidence' rather than judge it objectively, let their a priori opinions influance their consideration.

Well, the one I refer to is one of reincarnation. Briefly, if the universe is infinite, then one should re-occur again.

Of course, this is the simplistic way that many people argue it and doing so is flawed. The fact is it relies on 2 unproven premises:
Time is infinite.
The structure of our brains is what makes us us.

Essentially, it's valid in that if it is true that the specific atomic configuration of your brain is what makes you you from a consciousness standpoint and time is infinite then your configuration will occur again and thus you will occur again. Of course, we don't know that time will be infinite and we don't know quite what makes our consciousness "us". In fact, it's pretty hard to even know specifically what our consciousness is at all. So it's not known whether it's possible for our consciousness to occur again. And if it does, is that really "us"? What is the nature of consciousness in the first place?

I mean, it's plausible, but the two main premises are completely undemonstrated.

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Nouvelle-Albion
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Postby Nouvelle-Albion » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:23 am

Mavorpen wrote:
Nouvelle-Albion wrote:
Yet, your definition of belief and disbelief is also ill defined. I say that there are degrees of belief and disbelief- or rather, varying degrees of belief in the plausibiity of a statement- is based upon one's certainty of a proposition.


Considering knowledge and belief are two different things, no.


I believe in something in so far as I know the certainty of that something. So, no.

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Person012345
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Postby Person012345 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:24 am

Nouvelle-Albion wrote:
Person012345 wrote:I already answered. On your example scale, 0.

That only applies if you stick rigidly to the scale though, but since your scale is extremely ill defined...


Yet, your definition of belief and disbelief is also ill defined. I say that there are degrees of belief and disbelief- or rather, varying degrees of belief in the plausibiity of a statement- is based upon one's certainty of a proposition.

There is belief in the plausibility of a statement. That's separate from belief in the statement.

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Person012345
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Postby Person012345 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:27 am

Nouvelle-Albion wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
Considering knowledge and belief are two different things, no.


I believe in something in so far as I know the certainty of that something. So, no.

No. You either believe it or you don't. You're confusing belief in the plausibility of the statement and belief in the statement.

If someone asks you "do you believe X", "I don't know" does not mean the same thing as "is X true" "I don't know".

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The New World Oceania
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Postby The New World Oceania » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:28 am

Lilliburlero wrote:
Tyconna wrote:Hell yeah there's a God!


No, there are Gods.

The word "God" is truly only capitalized out of a) that being the name, and b) out of reverence. God/Gods is capitalized only in Abrahamic religions, but only in the case that the god being named is actually worshiped. In the case of the Greeks, "god" was not capitalized as it was a status, rather than a position or name, and because they were a Pagan religion, not an Abrahamic one (though some Abrahamic churches undoubtedly have roots in Paganism). In something like Christianity, however, "Gods" is capitalized when referring to the three that make up the Godhead, partially in reverence (this name-capitalizing reverence appearing in Abrahamic churches), and partially in that being the title which they are addressed. "God" is also capitalized in Abrahamic religions, for the same reason. The word "god" in the sense of either one subjected to apotheosis or a god who is not praised, but exists (see 1 Corinthians; 8:5), remains without capitalization, for the very fact that they do not meet the reasons given to others in reverence or name.

Either that, or some Jews got pissed with the Pagans, so they had to step up the reverence factor a notch. The point is that "god/God/gods/Gods" is only capitalized in the Abrahamic sense of the word.
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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:29 am

Nouvelle-Albion wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
Considering knowledge and belief are two different things, no.


I believe in something in so far as I know the certainty of that something. So, no.


So you believe, which makes you a theist. If you don't, you are an atheist. If you know, you are an gnostic. If you don't, you are agnostic. Thank you for proving me right.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Transhuman Proteus
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Postby Transhuman Proteus » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:31 am

Nouvelle-Albion wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:And all of those are as worthless as religious ones because they lack evidence.


I am sure they do have evidence, you chose just to ignore them, or approach them with the a priori opinion that they are all rubbish.


I suggest you provide some of this evidence if it exists.

You can find threads in this forum claiming to contain such "evidence", and you'll see it is typically nothing of the sort. It is non-scientific, or the "the bible says the bible is true and since the bible is true the bible is true."

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Not a pipe
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Postby Not a pipe » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:56 am

The New World Oceania wrote:The word "God" is truly only capitalized out of a) that being the name, and b) out of reverence. ...
No! I think it is because of grammar. They are another word than "god" (a related word, but nevertheless a differnet one).
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The New World Oceania
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Postby The New World Oceania » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:04 pm

Transhuman Proteus wrote:
Nouvelle-Albion wrote:
I am sure they do have evidence, you chose just to ignore them, or approach them with the a priori opinion that they are all rubbish.


I suggest you provide some of this evidence if it exists.

You can find threads in this forum claiming to contain such "evidence", and you'll see it is typically nothing of the sort. It is non-scientific, or the "the bible says the bible is true and since the bible is true the bible is true."

I haven't even looked at this website, but it's the first thing that came up on a search: http://www.godandscience.org/
A quick sweep over it doesn't tel me that it's very well organized, and I'm not sure what the content is, but maybe it'll give you something to blow your weekend off on.
Woman-made-woman.
Formerly Not a Bang but a Whimper.
Mario Cerce, Member of the Red - Green Alliance, Fighting for your Fernão!
Elizia
Joyce Wu, Eternal President of Elizia
Wen Lin, Governor of Jinyu
Ahmed Alef, Member for South Hutnegeri
Dagmar
Elise Marlowe, Member for Varland
Calaverde
Alsafyr Njil, Minister of Justice
Vienna Eliot et. al, Poets
Dick Njil, Journalist
Assad Hazouri, Mayor of Masalbhumi
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Leepaidamba
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Postby Leepaidamba » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:11 pm

Lilliburlero wrote:
Tyconna wrote:Hell yeah there's a God!


No, there are Gods.

I, think you messed that sentence up a bit. No comes after are.
Factbook
Official name: the Grand Duchy of Leepaidamba
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Mavorpen
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Postby Mavorpen » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:13 pm

The New World Oceania wrote:
Transhuman Proteus wrote:
I suggest you provide some of this evidence if it exists.

You can find threads in this forum claiming to contain such "evidence", and you'll see it is typically nothing of the sort. It is non-scientific, or the "the bible says the bible is true and since the bible is true the bible is true."

I haven't even looked at this website, but it's the first thing that came up on a search: http://www.godandscience.org/
A quick sweep over it doesn't tel me that it's very well organized, and I'm not sure what the content is, but maybe it'll give you something to blow your weekend off on.


That's...really sad. To even propose that we should take godandscience.org seriously is insulting.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Lilliburlero (Ancient)
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Postby Lilliburlero (Ancient) » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:14 pm

The New World Oceania wrote:
Lilliburlero wrote:
No, there are Gods.

The word "God" is truly only capitalized out of a) that being the name, and b) out of reverence. God/Gods is capitalized only in Abrahamic religions, but only in the case that the god being named is actually worshiped. In the case of the Greeks, "god" was not capitalized as it was a status, rather than a position or name, and because they were a Pagan religion, not an Abrahamic one (though some Abrahamic churches undoubtedly have roots in Paganism). In something like Christianity, however, "Gods" is capitalized when referring to the three that make up the Godhead, partially in reverence (this name-capitalizing reverence appearing in Abrahamic churches), and partially in that being the title which they are addressed. "God" is also capitalized in Abrahamic religions, for the same reason. The word "god" in the sense of either one subjected to apotheosis or a god who is not praised, but exists (see 1 Corinthians; 8:5), remains without capitalization, for the very fact that they do not meet the reasons given to others in reverence or name.

Either that, or some Jews got pissed with the Pagans, so they had to step up the reverence factor a notch. The point is that "god/God/gods/Gods" is only capitalized in the Abrahamic sense of the word.


The Word 'God', even in the plural, is a Noun and therefore must be capitalised.

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Lilliburlero (Ancient)
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Postby Lilliburlero (Ancient) » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:15 pm

Leepaidamba wrote:
Lilliburlero wrote:
No, there are Gods.

I, think you messed that sentence up a bit. No comes after are.


I mean what I say, there are Gods.

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Norfsex
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Postby Norfsex » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:18 pm

God is everything- we are all just manisfestation of the One God.

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The New World Oceania
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Postby The New World Oceania » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:19 pm

Lilliburlero wrote:
The New World Oceania wrote:The word "God" is truly only capitalized out of a) that being the name, and b) out of reverence. God/Gods is capitalized only in Abrahamic religions, but only in the case that the god being named is actually worshiped. In the case of the Greeks, "god" was not capitalized as it was a status, rather than a position or name, and because they were a Pagan religion, not an Abrahamic one (though some Abrahamic churches undoubtedly have roots in Paganism). In something like Christianity, however, "Gods" is capitalized when referring to the three that make up the Godhead, partially in reverence (this name-capitalizing reverence appearing in Abrahamic churches), and partially in that being the title which they are addressed. "God" is also capitalized in Abrahamic religions, for the same reason. The word "god" in the sense of either one subjected to apotheosis or a god who is not praised, but exists (see 1 Corinthians; 8:5), remains without capitalization, for the very fact that they do not meet the reasons given to others in reverence or name.

Either that, or some Jews got pissed with the Pagans, so they had to step up the reverence factor a notch. The point is that "god/God/gods/Gods" is only capitalized in the Abrahamic sense of the word.


The Word 'God', even in the plural, is a Noun and therefore must be capitalised.

Right. So every Noun must be capitalized, because Nouns are superior to every other Type of Word. I am a Human and a Theist. These Nouns are capitalized, are They not?
Woman-made-woman.
Formerly Not a Bang but a Whimper.
Mario Cerce, Member of the Red - Green Alliance, Fighting for your Fernão!
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Wen Lin, Governor of Jinyu
Ahmed Alef, Member for South Hutnegeri
Dagmar
Elise Marlowe, Member for Varland
Calaverde
Alsafyr Njil, Minister of Justice
Vienna Eliot et. al, Poets
Dick Njil, Journalist
Assad Hazouri, Mayor of Masalbhumi
Baltonia
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Leepaidamba
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Founded: Sep 22, 2010
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Postby Leepaidamba » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:22 pm

Lilliburlero wrote:
Leepaidamba wrote:I, think you messed that sentence up a bit. No comes after are.


I mean what I say, there are Gods.

Well then I'd like like to know why you believe that.
Factbook
Official name: the Grand Duchy of Leepaidamba
Short name: Amba
AKA: the Grand Duchy
Demonym: Leepaidamban/Amban
HoS: co-Grand Dukes David I and Anna I
HoG: Premier Jaap de Waal
Region: Nederland
Map by PB
FlagsNational animal: Rabit
National motto: "Paene est non." (Almost is not)
National anthem: " 't Lied der Vrijheid" (the Song of Freedom)
CapitalsCurrency: Amban Florin/Aƒ
Languages
Dependencies
No news

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Not a pipe
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Founded: Apr 18, 2012
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Postby Not a pipe » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:23 pm

Norfsex wrote:God is everything- we are all just manisfestation of the One God.
Yes, we are all part of universe and universe is just made of God, and God is also made of God.
View signature:
Viva la rivoluzione contro I moderatori fascisti!

I agree to put all of my messages here public domain please use them as public domain no copyright.

Patents should be abolished. Copyrights should be reduced.

The human population is already being too much! Let's make them get reduced over time instead.
D&D:
Name: Iuckqlwviv Kjugobe
Race: Illithid
Class: Wizard/Cerebremancer/Illithid Savant
Align: NG
Skills: scribe, sailor, search, languages, spot, listen, concentration, disable device, forgery, hide, healing, spellcraft, decipher script, ...
Spells: amanuensis, time hop, grease, force screen, modify memory, trace teleport, major creation, true seeing, extend tentacles, locate object, dimension door, object mirroring, prestidigitation, touch of health, ...

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