Is There a God?

[Xathranaar]

no, like angular momentum. If the big bang (what? point, blob, cloud) thing was spinning when it exploded, than everything should be spinning in the same direction, which they are not. Plus, matter should be evenly distributed throughout the universe, which it is not.

Who told you that "everything was spinning when it exploded?" Because no scientist has ever said that .

[Salamanstrom]

because everything is spinning. Plus, if it wasnt spinning, it would prove the big bang wrong.

perhaps not at the same speed, but uranus, pluto, neptune, and several moons are going backwards.

[Great Nepal]

because everything is spinning.

And? Doesn't say anything about it was spinning due to big bang.

Plus, if it wasnt spinning, it would prove the big bang wrong.

What on earth are you talking about?

perhaps not at the same speed, but uranus, pluto, neptune, and several moons are going backwards.

Asteroids, collisions with other objects: bazillions of stuff can explain those movements.

[Xathranaar]

because everything is spinning. Plus, if it wasnt spinning, it would prove the big bang wrong.

Anything that collapses inward as a result of gravity will develop a spin, and no one says the big bang started everything spinning except for creationists.

Get an education.

perhaps not at the same speed, but uranus, pluto, neptune, and several moons are going backwards.

Colliding with another object can easily change a planet's spin. Moons also.

Also, how is this evidence for a god? Disproving science doesn't make religion, and specifically your religion, right by default. It is possible for them to both be wrong.

[The New World Oceania]

Debating the macroscopic world isn't at all very substantial for arguing the existence of God.

Now, the subatomic world, on the other hand, is where you can actually gain some momentum that doesn't just keep going back and forth.

[Sociobiology]

because everything is spinning. Plus, if it wasnt spinning, it would prove the big bang wrong.

source because no it wouldn't

perhaps not at the same speed, but uranus, pluto, neptune, and several moons are going backwards.

define "going" because they are not orbiting backwards.

[Salamanstrom]

Angular momentum states that is something is spinning, and something comes from it, it has to be spinning the same direction. THIS IS A FACT. Venus, uranus, and neptune are all rotating backwards. And several moons in our solar system is orbiting their planets backwards. And this is in our solar system only.
Plus, what about this. The "Second Law of Thermodynamics" states that everything tend to chaos. Saying that something exploded or even rapidly expanded and got better doesn't work. Plus than the earth was a flaming ball for a while, than it started getting better. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE DUE TO THE SECOND LAW. It is a fact and you can't get around it. At very least this proves that evolution is wrong.

[Xathranaar]

Angular momentum states that is something is spinning, and something comes from it, it has to be spinning the same direction. THIS IS A FACT. Venus, uranus, and neptune are all rotating backwards. And several moons in our solar system is orbiting their planets backwards. And this is in our solar system only.
Plus, what about this. The "Second Law of Thermodynamics" states that everything tend to chaos. Saying that something exploded or even rapidly expanded and got better doesn't work. Plus than the earth was a flaming ball for a while, than it started getting better. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE DUE TO THE SECOND LAW. It is a fact and you can't get around it. At very least this proves that evolution is wrong.

Allow me to demonstrate what you sound like to people actually familiar with science, ahem:

"If the earth was a sphere, how come the people in Australia don't fall off? Checkmate atheists!"

[Multiflow]

Angular momentum states that is something is spinning, and something comes from it, it has to be spinning the same direction. THIS IS A FACT. Venus, uranus, and neptune are all rotating backwards. And several moons in our solar system is orbiting their planets backwards. And this is in our solar system only.
Plus, what about this. The "Second Law of Thermodynamics" states that everything tend to chaos. Saying that something exploded or even rapidly expanded and got better doesn't work. Plus than the earth was a flaming ball for a while, than it started getting better. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE DUE TO THE SECOND LAW. It is a fact and you can't get around it. At very least this proves that evolution is wrong.

Allow me to demonstrate what you sound like to people actually familiar with science, ahem:

"If the earth was a sphere, how come the people in Australia don't fall off? Checkmate atheists!"

(Image)

[Salamanstrom]

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i use proven scientific facts.
and you answer that.
im sorry, but you atheists are very content at taking the big bang THEORY and beating scientific FACTS with it until we think were wrong.

[Great Nepal]

Angular momentum states that is something is spinning, and something comes from it, it has to be spinning the same direction. THIS IS A FACT. Venus, uranus, and neptune are all rotating backwards. And several moons in our solar system is orbiting their planets backwards. And this is in our solar system only.

And everyone here has already told you that it has nothing to do with big bang and asteroids, collisions with other bodies: bazillions of stuff can explain those movements.

Plus, what about this. The "Second Law of Thermodynamics" states that everything tend to chaos. Saying that something exploded or even rapidly expanded and got better doesn't work. Plus than the earth was a flaming ball for a while, than it started getting better. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE DUE TO THE SECOND LAW. It is a fact and you can't get around it. At very least this proves that evolution is wrong.

Allright, here is simple version of how it happened:-
Once there was nothing. There were quantum fluctuations in this nothing. Once this quantum fluctuations went boom and our universe was born and expanded.
Before "explosion" there was perfect symmetry; and after it symmetry was broken. Effect of second law.

Your problem is what you think of the second law, it doesn't say things get worst. It says "the entropy of an isolated system never decreases".

[Avenio]

Angular momentum states that is something is spinning, and something comes from it, it has to be spinning the same direction. THIS IS A FACT. Venus, uranus, and neptune are all rotating backwards. And several moons in our solar system is orbiting their planets backwards. And this is in our solar system only.

Of course, the thing about Uranus is that it was hit so hard during an impact event that it was tilted on its side; its axis of rotation is 'flat' with the plane of the ecliptic (ie the flat 'disc' that is lined up with the equator of the Sun). So it's likely that Uranus started off rotating in the same direction as the rest of the planets in the solar system, but was knocked into that motion later in its life. Same with Venus.

Plus, what about this. The "Second Law of Thermodynamics" states that everything tend to chaos.

Entropy is not the same thing as chaos. I recommend you read this, as physics is unfortunately quite beyond me.

Saying that something exploded or even rapidly expanded and got better doesn't work. Plus than the earth was a flaming ball for a while, than it started getting better. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE DUE TO THE SECOND LAW. It is a fact and you can't get around it.

The fact that it 'got better' is actually a consequence of the Second Law, in a roundabout way. Without events heating up the planet (like impacts from asteroids and volcanism), the planet gradually cooled enough through radiating away heat that it allowed life to form.

At very least this proves that evolution is wrong.

Not in the least, because biological systems aren't closed. The fact that you ate breakfast this morning proves that.

[Xathranaar]

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i use proven scientific facts.
and you answer that.
im sorry, but you atheists are very content at taking the big bang THEORY and beating scientific FACTS with it until we think were wrong.

You're not over 14 are you?

Suffice it to say you have already been disproven on every point you have made, you just lack the wits to see it.

[Salamanstrom]

Angular momentum states that is something is spinning, and something comes from it, it has to be spinning the same direction. THIS IS A FACT. Venus, uranus, and neptune are all rotating backwards. And several moons in our solar system is orbiting their planets backwards. And this is in our solar system only.

And everyone here has already told you that it has nothing to do with big bang and asteroids, collisions with other bodies: bazillions of stuff can explain those movements.

Plus, what about this. The "Second Law of Thermodynamics" states that everything tend to chaos. Saying that something exploded or even rapidly expanded and got better doesn't work. Plus than the earth was a flaming ball for a while, than it started getting better. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE DUE TO THE SECOND LAW. It is a fact and you can't get around it. At very least this proves that evolution is wrong.

Allright, here is simple version of how it happened:-
Once there was nothing. There were quantum fluctuations in this nothing. Once this quantum fluctuations went boom and our universe was born and expanded.
Before "explosion" there was perfect symmetry; and after it symmetry was broken. Effect of second law.

Your problem is what you think of the second law, it doesn't say things get worst. It says "the entropy of an isolated system never decreases".

than where did the quantum fluctuations come from

[Xathranaar]

And everyone here has already told you that it has nothing to do with big bang and asteroids, collisions with other bodies: bazillions of stuff can explain those movements.


Allright, here is simple version of how it happened:-
Once there was nothing. There were quantum fluctuations in this nothing. Once this quantum fluctuations went boom and our universe was born and expanded.
Before "explosion" there was perfect symmetry; and after it symmetry was broken. Effect of second law.

Your problem is what you think of the second law, it doesn't say things get worst. It says "the entropy of an isolated system never decreases".

than where did the quantum fluctuations come from

He just told you, see above.

Reading, you will need it to get into college.

[Great Nepal]

than where did the quantum fluctuations come from

Quantum fluctuations arise from the uncertainty principle, as a field undergoes quantum fluctuations because vacuum is inherently unstable in quantum sense.
Long story short: uncertainty principle allows conservation of energy to be violated for small period of time thus allowing quantum fluctuations.

[Cameroi]

whatever there may or may not be, in the sense of something resembling a god, is neither knowable, nor dependent upon anyone's position on the matter.

if there wants to be one god, there is one god. if there wants to be no god, there is no god. if there wants to be zillions of them there are zillions of them.
in any event, this is neither up to me nor thee.

(nor the revealers of beliefs nor the writers of books about them)

i will say there is something big, friendly and invisible, which gives great hugs and does not micro-manage. i will say this because i have experienced it.
how much this has to do with anyone's idea of a god, or how much anyone's idea of a god has to do with whatever comes closest to resembling what ever god or god-like beings might happen to exist, are entirely matters of speculation.

again i will also say that what we get is in no way limited to what we see. this doesn't even depend upon belief to say it. what people pretend to KNOW about what is not known, is still, none the less, people pretending.

[Frisivisia]

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i use proven scientific facts.
and you answer that.
im sorry, but you atheists are very content at taking the big bang THEORY and beating scientific FACTS with it until we think were wrong.

Gravity is a theory. It's a proven one, though, but if new evidence arose that gravity was not true, the theory would be abandoned. I don't see that happening. But if it did. That's how science works.
Evolution/The Big Bang is a theory. It's a proven one, though, but if new evidence arose that Evolution/The Big Bang was not true, the theory would be abandoned. I don't see that happening. But if it did. That's how science works.

[North America and the Great Lakes]

It's my belief. I don't have to prove it to you or anyone on the planet. Freedom of spiritual belief is a basic right of every human being. I'm not going to waste time on someone who is trying to berate my religious beliefs just for the sake of having an argument.

If you hold that belief, though, you must either have a good reason or be somewhat confused.

I hold this belief because it is my choice to believe in what seems logical to me. I do not see how the Universe could expand from nothingness into everything we see here. Something had to have set off the Big Bang, something had to of created that ball of mass. For you, that something may just be an eventuality of science and nature. For me, that something is God. I truly Believe my God saved my mother from cancer. I truly believe that God speaks to me through my subconscious thought. Like I have said, it is your choice and your choice alone to be an atheist, just as it is my choice and my choice alone to believe in God. EVeryone is different, we all think differently. Unless you're a clone of course. Then you're exactly the same, but that's beside the point

[Multiflow]

I want to jump in the middle, but I am afraid of getting burned by BOTH sides. I have glanced through the thread, but as it is now over 400 pages ... sorry if I missed someone already talking about this.

The biggest problem I usually see in these (*cough*) discussions, is before you begin you should define what you talking about. Everyone assumes that we all agree on what a term means. We get some partial definitions as it goes along and people try to assert a point of view. I am not here at this point to disagree.

My point right now would be, 'What is a god?'

As the science based atheists have pointed out fairly well so far, there does not seem to be a personality to the universe. Because if you look at what Abrahamic religions try to describe as God, it is the universe. We are made of it, it surrounds us, it is everything. But it has no personality.

But to argue for the theists, is a cell in the body aware of our personality? And do you actively care about every cell in your body?

I guess I want to ask, besides personal satisfaction, why does it matter? Do you need a god for moral justification? Not really as most philosophers, atheists, and various other people can point out. Look at the world around you, ask yourself, why do I think this is right, or wrong. If as you age the only answer you have is because some one says so, see if you can find more to support it. If you cannot, you may find that there may be something else going on.

[Frisivisia]

If you hold that belief, though, you must either have a good reason or be somewhat confused.

I hold this belief because it is my choice to believe in what seems logical to me. I do not see how the Universe could expand from nothingness into everything we see here. Something had to have set off the Big Bang, something had to of created that ball of mass. For you, that something may just be an eventuality of science and nature. For me, that something is God. I truly Believe my God saved my mother from cancer. I truly believe that God speaks to me through my subconscious thought. Like I have said, it is your choice and your choice alone to be an atheist, just as it is my choice and my choice alone to believe in God. EVeryone is different, we all think differently. Unless you're a clone of course. Then you're exactly the same, but that's beside the point

So, your argument, in essence, is "I don't know what happened, therefore, I'm going to imagine that this arbitrary, unprovable, unproven thing did it.". If your reasoning behind God is "I dunno, there's a gap in science, therefore, God.", your ability to think rationally is obviously being impeded by something, whether it be fear of death, childhood indoctrination, or you saw something unlikely and reasoned that improbability is impossibility, leading to the reasoning that therefore it was a miracle.

[Sociobiology]

If you hold that belief, though, you must either have a good reason or be somewhat confused.

I hold this belief because it is my choice to believe in what seems logical to me. I do not see how the Universe could expand from nothingness into everything we see here.

then get off your ass and research it. Don't expect everything to be handed to you and don't just give up and say magic did it.

Something had to have set off the Big Bang,

no nothing does, or more precisely nothing does.

something had to of created that ball of mass.

see nothing

I truly Believe my God saved my mother from cancer.

then your ignorant, about biology.

I truly believe that God speaks to me through my subconscious thought.

then again your ignorant, this time about what your subconscious is.
you're no different than the native who thinks spirits cause rain and witches cause sickness.

god for you is where your turn your brain off and say " I don't want to think anymore"

-Anything you don't understand, Mr. Rankin, you attribute to God. God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 166.]

[Sociobiology]

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i use proven scientific facts.

were?
I haven't seen one come out of you yet.

[Vortropolis]

I hold this belief because it is my choice to believe in what seems logical to me. I do not see how the Universe could expand from nothingness into everything we see here.

then get off your ass and research it. Don't expect everything to be handed to you and don't just give up and say magic did it.

Something had to have set off the Big Bang,

no nothing does, or more precisely nothing does.

something had to of created that ball of mass.

see nothing

I truly Believe my God saved my mother from cancer.

then your ignorant, about biology.

I truly believe that God speaks to me through my subconscious thought.

then again your ignorant, this time about what your subconscious is.
you're no different than the native who thinks spirits cause rain and witches cause sickness.

god for you is where your turn your brain off and say " I don't want to think anymore"

-Anything you don't understand, Mr. Rankin, you attribute to God. God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it. [Dr. Arroway in Carl Sagan's Contact (New York: Pocket Books, 1985), p. 166.]

That's pretty damn harsh.

[Sociobiology]

Angular momentum states that is something is spinning, and something comes from it, it has to be spinning the same direction.

nope
try again.

Venus, uranus, and neptune are all rotating backwards. And several moons in our solar system is orbiting their planets backwards. And this is in our solar system only.

first, source that this is "only in our solar system"
second, so what? simple Brownian motion models predicts those kinds of abberations.

Plus, what about this. The "Second Law of Thermodynamics" states that everything tend to chaos.

again nope
try looking it up yourself instead of copy/pasting.

Saying that something exploded or even rapidly expanded and got better doesn't work.

better?????

Plus than the earth was a flaming ball for a while, than it started getting better.

better??
it got cooler, just as the second law of thermodynamics predicts.

It is a fact and you can't get around it.

I don't need to "get around it" since you have no idea what "it" is, or what "it " means

At very least this proves that evolution is wrong.

how? by demonstrating you don't understand even simple scientific principles?