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Why a God must have created the universe.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:20 pmby Karinzistan
The universe. How did it get here? It couldn't have gotten here on its own. That would be an example of spontaneous generation, a theory disproved a long, long, time ago. It couldn't have always been here. That to, would be impossible according to science. Therefore, the only possible answer would be that something else would have had to have created it. What's the only thing that could do that? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God.(or many, but that's a discussion for another time.) Well you might be thinking, how did God get here, then? Well, what's the only thing with the ability to create itself? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God. Therefore, a God must have created the universe.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:22 pmby Divair
And who says the universe didn't create itself? Who says the universe had to have a beginning?
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:23 pmby Laerod
Karinzistan wrote:The universe. How did it get here? It couldn't have gotten here on its own. That would be an example of spontaneous generation, a theory disproved a long, long, time ago. It couldn't have always been here. That to, would be impossible according to science. Therefore, the only possible answer would be that something else would have had to have created it. What's the only thing that could do that? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God.(or many, but that's a discussion for another time.) Well you might be thinking, how did God get here, then? Well, what's the only thing with the ability to create itself? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God. Therefore, a God must have created the universe.
A logical argument requires the premise to be true. Not only is your premise not true (when and how would spontaneous creation have been disproven?), it's irrelevant. Whatever happens in the universe happens under the universe's rules. Whatever happens beforehand is not beholden to this universe's laws and requirements.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:23 pmby Karinzistan
Divair wrote:And who says the universe didn't create itself? Who says the universe had to have a beginning?
Basic science.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:23 pmby Ceannairceach
Karinzistan wrote:The universe. How did it get here? It couldn't have gotten here on its own. That would be an example of spontaneous generation, a theory disproved a long, long, time ago. It couldn't have always been here. That to, would be impossible according to science. Therefore, the only possible answer would be that something else would have had to have created it. What's the only thing that could do that? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God.(or many, but that's a discussion for another time.)
Well you might be thinking, how did God get here, then? Well, what's the only thing with the ability to create itself? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God. Therefore, a God must have created the universe.
Wait, no. Your entire post fails at the point where you stated the underlined. Something cannot create itself from nothing, even using your own twisted logic. If everything must have a creator, a premise you accepted at the beginning of your post, then so must god. And god cannot have created himself, because that would mean he had already existed.
Your circular reasoning is not appreciated.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:24 pmby Avenio
Karinzistan wrote:The universe. How did it get here? It couldn't have gotten here on its own.
Why not? God apparently did.
Karinzistan wrote:That would be an example of spontaneous generation, a theory disproved a long, long, time ago.
That is
not spontaneous generation. Spontaneous generation has to do with maggots popping into existence in rotten meat, not the creation of the universe.
Karinzistan wrote:It couldn't have always been here. That to, would be impossible according to science.
What does 'always been here' mean? The Big Bang was the beginning of time, so the universe has 'always' existed, in that time didn't exist before it. Besides which, there are all sorts of
theories associated with cosmogony.
Karinzistan wrote:Therefore, the only possible answer would be that something else would have had to have created it. What's the only thing that could do that? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God.(or many, but that's a discussion for another time.) Well you might be thinking, how did God get here, then? Well, what's the only thing with the ability to create itself? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God. Therefore, a God must have created the universe.
Circular reasoning works because circular reasoning works, etc.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:24 pmby Tlaceceyaya
Karinzistan wrote:The universe. How did it get here? It couldn't have gotten here on its own. That would be an example of spontaneous generation, a theory disproved a long, long, time ago. It couldn't have always been here. That to, would be impossible according to science. Therefore, the only possible answer would be that something else would have had to have created it. What's the only thing that could do that? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God.(or many, but that's a discussion for another time.) Well you might be thinking, how did God get here, then? Well, what's the only thing with the ability to create itself? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God. Therefore, a God must have created the universe.
You do not know how the universe got here, therefore... god? And if you believe so, how did god get there?
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:24 pmby Threlizdun
Which is more complex, the universe, or something that can create the universe? Something with the power to form the universe is more unlikely than the universe itself.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:24 pmby Ceannairceach
Karinzistan wrote:Divair wrote:And who says the universe didn't create itself? Who says the universe had to have a beginning?
Basic science.
Wrong. Time
as we know it started with the big bang and the rapid expansion of the universe from its starting point. Thus, the universe theoretically has always existed because it existed
before time.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:25 pmby Genivaria
Karinzistan wrote:Divair wrote:And who says the universe didn't create itself? Who says the universe had to have a beginning?
Basic science.
Clarify.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:26 pmby Divair
Karinzistan wrote:Divair wrote:And who says the universe didn't create itself? Who says the universe had to have a beginning?
Basic science.
Alright. So science says that nothing can exist forever, correct?
Then why does a god get to break those rules? Why can't I simply say "Well, the universe is itself, so it gets to break the rules."
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:26 pmby Nude East Ireland
There is no scientific evidence to show that God magically waved his hands and caused the universe to 'happen.' Therefore, it is false.
/thread
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:26 pmby Karinzistan
Laerod wrote:Karinzistan wrote:The universe. How did it get here? It couldn't have gotten here on its own. That would be an example of spontaneous generation, a theory disproved a long, long, time ago. It couldn't have always been here. That to, would be impossible according to science. Therefore, the only possible answer would be that something else would have had to have created it. What's the only thing that could do that? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God.(or many, but that's a discussion for another time.) Well you might be thinking, how did God get here, then? Well, what's the only thing with the ability to create itself? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God. Therefore, a God must have created the universe.
A logical argument requires the premise to be true. Not only is your premise not true (when and how would spontaneous creation have been disproven?), it's irrelevant. Whatever happens in the universe happens under the universe's rules. Whatever happens beforehand is not beholden to this universe's laws and requirements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_generation "spontaneous generation is an obsolete principle..."
It's true. I just proved why it had to be. No, because the universe would have to follow its own rules in its creation. Also, it is an abstract concept. It doesn't think or create. It's just a space.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:27 pmby Karinzistan
Nude East Ireland wrote:There is no scientific evidence to show that God magically waved his hands and caused the universe to 'happen.' Therefore, it is false.
/thread
Nope. It is the only possible explanation.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:27 pmby The Orson Empire
Ceannairceach wrote:Karinzistan wrote:Basic science.
Wrong. Time
as we know it started with the big bang and the rapid expansion of the universe from its starting point. Thus, the universe theoretically has always existed because it existed
before time.
I do not believe in the Big Bang. And humans do not know everything. we barely know anything about our own galaxy!
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:27 pmby Karinzistan
Divair wrote:Karinzistan wrote:Basic science.
Alright. So science says that nothing can exist forever, correct?
Then why does a god get to break those rules? Why can't I simply say "Well, the universe is itself, so it gets to break the rules."
Science does not say something can exist forever.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:27 pmby Impius Gentes
Karinzistan wrote:The universe. How did it get here? It couldn't have gotten here on its own. That would be an example of spontaneous generation, a theory disproved a long, long, time ago. It couldn't have always been here. That to, would be impossible according to science. Therefore, the only possible answer would be that something else would have had to have created it. What's the only thing that could do that? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God.(or many, but that's a discussion for another time.) Well you might be thinking, how did God get here, then? Well, what's the only thing with the ability to create itself? Something with ultimate power. What's the only conceivable thing with ultimate power? God. Therefore, a God must have created the universe.
1. Your logic is incredibly flawed
2. Troll harder.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:27 pmby Samuraikoku
Karinzistan wrote:Nude East Ireland wrote:There is no scientific evidence to show that God magically waved his hands and caused the universe to 'happen.' Therefore, it is false.
/thread
Nope. It is the only possible explanation.
Says who?
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:27 pmby Jerusalem and Damascus
I really wish people would stop making these sort of threads because it makes people take me less seriously as a consequence.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:27 pmby Rethan
Karinzistan wrote:Nude East Ireland wrote:There is no scientific evidence to show that God magically waved his hands and caused the universe to 'happen.' Therefore, it is false.
/thread
Nope. It is the only possible explanation.
Except, you know, all those other explanations backed up by scientific hypotheses and evidence, right?
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:27 pmby Divair
Karinzistan wrote:Nude East Ireland wrote:There is no scientific evidence to show that God magically waved his hands and caused the universe to 'happen.' Therefore, it is false.
/thread
Nope. It is the only possible explanation.
"Something I made up can break all the rules of physics. Why does he get to break them? Because I gave him the imaginary power to do so!"
No. This is not science.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:28 pmby Imsogone
What a wonderful invitation to infinite regression!
So there had to be a first cause to the universe. But what created the first cause? And what created that which created the first cause. And so on ad infinitum. Somewhere, sometime, you're going to have to hit on something that wasn't created but simply existed without beginning and without end. You'd like to call it God. I'll call it the universe.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:28 pmby Nude East Ireland
Karinzistan wrote:Nude East Ireland wrote:There is no scientific evidence to show that God magically waved his hands and caused the universe to 'happen.' Therefore, it is false.
/thread
Nope. It is the only possible explanation.
O rly?
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:28 pmby Nightkill the Emperor
Before the Big Bang, we obviously had the Big Foreplay.
Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:28 pmby 1000 Cats
Spontaneous generation is actually completely possible. Steven Hawking was instrumental in showing that, and he gives a good account of it in A Brief History of Time.