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Non Aligned States
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Founded: Nov 14, 2004
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Postby Non Aligned States » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:57 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:Winning isn't the goal, getting the current status quo will do.


That's not very good either. The addicts are a pretty much foregone case, but the problem is stopping new addicts. Perhaps if anti-drug campaigns utilized a more gruesome factor in their awareness by showing the faces of long term addicts, not as a shaming means, but as an indicator of what hard drug addiction does to you.

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Kobrania
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Postby Kobrania » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:58 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Kobrania wrote:The war on drugs cannot win, as long as there is demand, there will be a supplier.


Winning isn't the goal, getting the current status quo will do.

Make it legal and the amount of addicted hard drug users would explode. And that is not the kind of society I want to live in.


Btw, whatever you would do, there will be still rape, active paedophiles, murder... You can't win that one too, so let's make it legal! Brilliant, isn't?

No one go's down to the pub and orders the girl next to him tied up and gagged.
"Only when you acknowledge that your country has done evil and ignore it will you be a patriot." -TJ.

ZIONISM = JUSTIFYING GENOCIDE WITH GOD.

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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:48 am

When drugs are legalized, they will be sold at government sponsored stores, with a heavy tax.

There will be no need for runners, let alone kiddies as runners.
"Life is difficult".

-M. Scott Peck

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Hairless Kitten II
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Postby Hairless Kitten II » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:06 am

Pope Joan wrote:When drugs are legalized, they will be sold at government sponsored stores, with a heavy tax.

There will be no need for runners, let alone kiddies as runners.


Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Fuck! We have to stop our illegal crack lab!"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "Doh? Why?"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "The bitches of the government will sell dope WITH a high tax"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "High tax? That means those bitches will be more expensive as us, stupid!"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Oh? Doh? Let's build another lab then..."
Last edited by Hairless Kitten II on Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Kryozerkia
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Postby Kryozerkia » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:15 am

While there are valid arguments against the legalisation of drugs, there are many in favour of, such as by legalising it. We can reduce the stigma of drug usage and allow people to come forward to their doctors and discuss any usage that may have affected their health. It would allow a better gathering of actual usage statistics and allow us to get a better of idea of actual rates of addiction. Moreover, if it is legal, if we know who is using the different drugs, we can better learn to treat addiction because we will see the affects across more people.
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Hairless Kitten II
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Postby Hairless Kitten II » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:49 am

Kryozerkia wrote:While there are valid arguments against the legalisation of drugs, there are many in favour of, such as by legalising it. We can reduce the stigma of drug usage and allow people to come forward to their doctors and discuss any usage that may have affected their health. It would allow a better gathering of actual usage statistics and allow us to get a better of idea of actual rates of addiction. Moreover, if it is legal, if we know who is using the different drugs, we can better learn to treat addiction because we will see the affects across more people.


I agree that we shouldn't lock up users, but instead should focus more on the dealers (small & big fishes).

I believe that in my country that it's rare that they lock up drug users and if they do then it's mostly correlated with a criminal crime they committed to get hard drugs.

I don't think it's a wise idea to make hard drugs legal, much more people would get access and put themselves in big troubles. Stuff like crystal meth, crack and heroin is not what I call recreational stuff that you can try out safely a few times. You will be addicted rather soon, sometimes already after the first use.

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Kryozerkia
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Postby Kryozerkia » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:08 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Kryozerkia wrote:While there are valid arguments against the legalisation of drugs, there are many in favour of, such as by legalising it. We can reduce the stigma of drug usage and allow people to come forward to their doctors and discuss any usage that may have affected their health. It would allow a better gathering of actual usage statistics and allow us to get a better of idea of actual rates of addiction. Moreover, if it is legal, if we know who is using the different drugs, we can better learn to treat addiction because we will see the affects across more people.


I agree that we shouldn't lock up users, but instead should focus more on the dealers (small & big fishes).

I believe that in my country that it's rare that they lock up drug users and if they do then it's mostly correlated with a criminal crime they committed to get hard drugs.

I don't think it's a wise idea to make hard drugs legal, much more people would get access and put themselves in big troubles. Stuff like crystal meth, crack and heroin is not what I call recreational stuff that you can try out safely a few times. You will be addicted rather soon, sometimes already after the first use.

There is a program here in Canada. Currently it's ongoing in Vancouver (BC) with the possibility of being introduced in Toronto as well (though, it may not happen) called InSite. Which the Tories seem to think is a terrible idea. The basis for this is that it allows users to come off the street. It reduces the chance of needles being shared, thus curbing the potential spread of diseases through contaminated needles. It also was designed to provide a rehab program for those who wanted it.
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♦ A-well-a, bird, bird, b-bird's the word

Get the cheese to Sickbay

"Ok folks, show's over... Nothing to see here... Show's OH MY GOD! A horrible plane crash! Hey everybody, get a load of this flaming wreckage! Come on, crowd around, crowd around, don't be shy, crowd around!" -- Chief Wiggum

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Aelosia
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Postby Aelosia » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:23 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:When drugs are legalized, they will be sold at government sponsored stores, with a heavy tax.

There will be no need for runners, let alone kiddies as runners.


Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Fuck! We have to stop our illegal crack lab!"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "Doh? Why?"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "The bitches of the government will sell dope WITH a high tax"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "High tax? That means those bitches will be more expensive as us, stupid!"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Oh? Doh? Let's build another lab then..."


While I can see your point...Are you aware that illegal drug trafficking have a lot of costs that a legal traffic wouldn't face? Security, bribes to cops and other officers, transport and smuggling costs, thugs, rival gangs...

For example, I am pretty sure that you could produce and sell right now cheaper whisky than the legal one, but the profit would be worth of all the effort and cost of concealing the trade?, when you can perfectly and legally buy the drug?
My ratings in the top 100:
Aelosia is ranked 12th in the world for Lowest Unemployment Rates
Aelosia is ranked 12th in the world for Lowest Unemployment Rates
Aelosia is ranked 12th in the world for Largest Defense Forces
Aelosia is ranked 13th in the world for Most Scientifically Advanced
Aelosia is ranked 20th in the world for Most Cultured
Aelosia is ranked 24th in the world for Most Subsidized Industry
Aelosia is ranked 25th in the world for Fastest-Growing Economies
Aelosia is ranked 38th in the world for Largest Public Transport Department
Aelosia is ranked 42th in the world for Largest Publishing Industry
Aelosia is ranked 51th in the world for Largest Information Technology Sector
Aelosia is ranked 61th in the world for Largest Arms Manufacturing Sector

Factbook so far.

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Hairless Kitten II
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Founded: Jun 30, 2009
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Postby Hairless Kitten II » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:13 am

Aelosia wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:When drugs are legalized, they will be sold at government sponsored stores, with a heavy tax.

There will be no need for runners, let alone kiddies as runners.


Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Fuck! We have to stop our illegal crack lab!"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "Doh? Why?"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "The bitches of the government will sell dope WITH a high tax"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "High tax? That means those bitches will be more expensive as us, stupid!"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Oh? Doh? Let's build another lab then..."


While I can see your point...Are you aware that illegal drug trafficking have a lot of costs that a legal traffic wouldn't face? Security, bribes to cops and other officers, transport and smuggling costs, thugs, rival gangs...

For example, I am pretty sure that you could produce and sell right now cheaper whisky than the legal one, but the profit would be worth of all the effort and cost of concealing the trade?, when you can perfectly and legally buy the drug?


Well, cigarettes are rather cheap and legal. But still many criminal gangs are highly interested in selling them.

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Kobrania
Minister
 
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Founded: May 11, 2009
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Postby Kobrania » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:16 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Aelosia wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:When drugs are legalized, they will be sold at government sponsored stores, with a heavy tax.

There will be no need for runners, let alone kiddies as runners.


Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Fuck! We have to stop our illegal crack lab!"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "Doh? Why?"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "The bitches of the government will sell dope WITH a high tax"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "High tax? That means those bitches will be more expensive as us, stupid!"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Oh? Doh? Let's build another lab then..."


While I can see your point...Are you aware that illegal drug trafficking have a lot of costs that a legal traffic wouldn't face? Security, bribes to cops and other officers, transport and smuggling costs, thugs, rival gangs...

For example, I am pretty sure that you could produce and sell right now cheaper whisky than the legal one, but the profit would be worth of all the effort and cost of concealing the trade?, when you can perfectly and legally buy the drug?


Well, cigarettes are rather cheap and legal. But still many criminal gangs are highly interested in selling them.

I buy from a lot of dealers, I have not onc been asked if I wanted a bootleg cigarette.
"Only when you acknowledge that your country has done evil and ignore it will you be a patriot." -TJ.

ZIONISM = JUSTIFYING GENOCIDE WITH GOD.

Kobrania, the anti-KMA.

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Gauntleted Fist
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Posts: 10061
Founded: Aug 17, 2008
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Postby Gauntleted Fist » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:20 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Aelosia wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:When drugs are legalized, they will be sold at government sponsored stores, with a heavy tax.

There will be no need for runners, let alone kiddies as runners.


Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Fuck! We have to stop our illegal crack lab!"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "Doh? Why?"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "The bitches of the government will sell dope WITH a high tax"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "High tax? That means those bitches will be more expensive as us, stupid!"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Oh? Doh? Let's build another lab then..."


While I can see your point...Are you aware that illegal drug trafficking have a lot of costs that a legal traffic wouldn't face? Security, bribes to cops and other officers, transport and smuggling costs, thugs, rival gangs...

For example, I am pretty sure that you could produce and sell right now cheaper whisky than the legal one, but the profit would be worth of all the effort and cost of concealing the trade?, when you can perfectly and legally buy the drug?


Well, cigarettes are rather cheap and legal. But still many criminal gangs are highly interested in selling them.
Cigarettes are not cheap here. :p

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Charlotte Ryberg
The Muse of the Westcountry
 
Posts: 15007
Founded: Mar 14, 2007
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:25 am

I feel this is the most extreme measure the addict has done to entice youngsters into drug addiction. Terrible. I really hope that the 4-year-old will grow up not to be addicted to drugs, because it is a tragedy to be addicted to it.

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Aelosia
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Postby Aelosia » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:33 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:[Well, cigarettes are rather cheap and legal. But still many criminal gangs are highly interested in selling them.


Cheap? Where do you live? I want to go there.

Cigarrettes are expensive, in most parts of the world. Mostly due to an unfair tax burden on innocent people. Yet, There are no "pirate" cigarrettes or alternate illegal brands or products. Only smuggling.

Same would happening to drugs. Illegals would turn just into smugglers.
My ratings in the top 100:
Aelosia is ranked 12th in the world for Lowest Unemployment Rates
Aelosia is ranked 12th in the world for Lowest Unemployment Rates
Aelosia is ranked 12th in the world for Largest Defense Forces
Aelosia is ranked 13th in the world for Most Scientifically Advanced
Aelosia is ranked 20th in the world for Most Cultured
Aelosia is ranked 24th in the world for Most Subsidized Industry
Aelosia is ranked 25th in the world for Fastest-Growing Economies
Aelosia is ranked 38th in the world for Largest Public Transport Department
Aelosia is ranked 42th in the world for Largest Publishing Industry
Aelosia is ranked 51th in the world for Largest Information Technology Sector
Aelosia is ranked 61th in the world for Largest Arms Manufacturing Sector

Factbook so far.

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BowlsofCream
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Founded: Jul 15, 2009
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Postby BowlsofCream » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:36 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Aelosia wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:When drugs are legalized, they will be sold at government sponsored stores, with a heavy tax.

There will be no need for runners, let alone kiddies as runners.


Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Fuck! We have to stop our illegal crack lab!"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "Doh? Why?"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "The bitches of the government will sell dope WITH a high tax"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "High tax? That means those bitches will be more expensive as us, stupid!"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Oh? Doh? Let's build another lab then..."


While I can see your point...Are you aware that illegal drug trafficking have a lot of costs that a legal traffic wouldn't face? Security, bribes to cops and other officers, transport and smuggling costs, thugs, rival gangs...

For example, I am pretty sure that you could produce and sell right now cheaper whisky than the legal one, but the profit would be worth of all the effort and cost of concealing the trade?, when you can perfectly and legally buy the drug?


Well, cigarettes are rather cheap and legal. But still many criminal gangs are highly interested in selling them.

And the government is also taxing the hell out of it, raising the prices to a god-awful amount. To say that illegal marijuana is cheaper than legal marijuana is just stupid. Because it is not. The only time it is cheaper is if it is schwag, in which case you stay away from.

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Hairless Kitten II
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Founded: Jun 30, 2009
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Postby Hairless Kitten II » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:11 am

Aelosia wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:[Well, cigarettes are rather cheap and legal. But still many criminal gangs are highly interested in selling them.


Cheap? Where do you live? I want to go there.

Cigarrettes are expensive, in most parts of the world. Mostly due to an unfair tax burden on innocent people. Yet, There are no "pirate" cigarrettes or alternate illegal brands or products. Only smuggling.

Same would happening to drugs. Illegals would turn just into smugglers.


Here you have a link for the prices of Marlboro Red:

http://www.landenportal.nl/informatie/s ... rlboro.htm

Prices ranges from around 1 Euro to 9 Euro, inside Europe.

I assume you understand that this alone is making room for illegal cigarettes.

But there’s more, some criminal groups create fake cigarettes in by instance China including with a perfect copy of the seal of a specific country for peanuts.

Those fake cigarettes could sometimes be very dangerous for your health.

That you don’t notice those smuggled and fake cigarettes doesn’t mean they are not around you. In most cases you are just not aware.

The illegal cigarette business is a big business:

• More than a million fake cigarettes are seized in UK alone EVERY day.
• Smuggled cigarettes are good for 15% of the entire cigarette market!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4096911.stm

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Hairless Kitten II
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Founded: Jun 30, 2009
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Postby Hairless Kitten II » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:14 am

BowlsofCream wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Aelosia wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:When drugs are legalized, they will be sold at government sponsored stores, with a heavy tax.

There will be no need for runners, let alone kiddies as runners.


Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Fuck! We have to stop our illegal crack lab!"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "Doh? Why?"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "The bitches of the government will sell dope WITH a high tax"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "High tax? That means those bitches will be more expensive as us, stupid!"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Oh? Doh? Let's build another lab then..."


While I can see your point...Are you aware that illegal drug trafficking have a lot of costs that a legal traffic wouldn't face? Security, bribes to cops and other officers, transport and smuggling costs, thugs, rival gangs...

For example, I am pretty sure that you could produce and sell right now cheaper whisky than the legal one, but the profit would be worth of all the effort and cost of concealing the trade?, when you can perfectly and legally buy the drug?


Well, cigarettes are rather cheap and legal. But still many criminal gangs are highly interested in selling them.

And the government is also taxing the hell out of it, raising the prices to a god-awful amount. To say that illegal marijuana is cheaper than legal marijuana is just stupid. Because it is not. The only time it is cheaper is if it is schwag, in which case you stay away from.


Medical MJ is far more expensive than the one I can buy in a Dutch coffee shop...

The first is 100% legal, the second is semi-legal.

And you pay a lot more for MJ in France, where it is illegal, then in Holland.

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• Any similarities with reality is a mere coincidence
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Dimoniquid
Powerbroker
 
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Founded: Jul 10, 2009
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Dimoniquid » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:18 am

Four year old dealer... hah hah hah!

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LOL ANARCHY NUBZ
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Founded: Dec 07, 2008
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Postby LOL ANARCHY NUBZ » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:12 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
BowlsofCream wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Aelosia wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:When drugs are legalized, they will be sold at government sponsored stores, with a heavy tax.

There will be no need for runners, let alone kiddies as runners.


Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Fuck! We have to stop our illegal crack lab!"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "Doh? Why?"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "The bitches of the government will sell dope WITH a high tax"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "High tax? That means those bitches will be more expensive as us, stupid!"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Oh? Doh? Let's build another lab then..."


While I can see your point...Are you aware that illegal drug trafficking have a lot of costs that a legal traffic wouldn't face? Security, bribes to cops and other officers, transport and smuggling costs, thugs, rival gangs...

For example, I am pretty sure that you could produce and sell right now cheaper whisky than the legal one, but the profit would be worth of all the effort and cost of concealing the trade?, when you can perfectly and legally buy the drug?


Well, cigarettes are rather cheap and legal. But still many criminal gangs are highly interested in selling them.

And the government is also taxing the hell out of it, raising the prices to a god-awful amount. To say that illegal marijuana is cheaper than legal marijuana is just stupid. Because it is not. The only time it is cheaper is if it is schwag, in which case you stay away from.


Medical MJ is far more expensive than the one I can buy in a Dutch coffee shop...

The first is 100% legal, the second is semi-legal.

And you pay a lot more for MJ in France, where it is illegal, then in Holland.


Therefore legal=cheaper, therefore dealers have no profit. Surely?

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Hairless Kitten II
Senator
 
Posts: 4198
Founded: Jun 30, 2009
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Postby Hairless Kitten II » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:29 am

LOL ANARCHY NUBZ wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
BowlsofCream wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Aelosia wrote:
Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:When drugs are legalized, they will be sold at government sponsored stores, with a heavy tax.

There will be no need for runners, let alone kiddies as runners.


Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Fuck! We have to stop our illegal crack lab!"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "Doh? Why?"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "The bitches of the government will sell dope WITH a high tax"

Bling-Bling Gangsta: "High tax? That means those bitches will be more expensive as us, stupid!"

Mother Fucking Gangsta: "Oh? Doh? Let's build another lab then..."


While I can see your point...Are you aware that illegal drug trafficking have a lot of costs that a legal traffic wouldn't face? Security, bribes to cops and other officers, transport and smuggling costs, thugs, rival gangs...

For example, I am pretty sure that you could produce and sell right now cheaper whisky than the legal one, but the profit would be worth of all the effort and cost of concealing the trade?, when you can perfectly and legally buy the drug?


Well, cigarettes are rather cheap and legal. But still many criminal gangs are highly interested in selling them.

And the government is also taxing the hell out of it, raising the prices to a god-awful amount. To say that illegal marijuana is cheaper than legal marijuana is just stupid. Because it is not. The only time it is cheaper is if it is schwag, in which case you stay away from.


Medical MJ is far more expensive than the one I can buy in a Dutch coffee shop...

The first is 100% legal, the second is semi-legal.

And you pay a lot more for MJ in France, where it is illegal, then in Holland.


Therefore legal=cheaper, therefore dealers have no profit. Surely?


No. Medical MJ in Holland is still more expensive as illegal weed in France. The medical weed isn't loved by the regular and heavy users anyway.

The reason why regular weed is more expensive in France as in Holland is due the risks involved.

People outside The Netherlands have also the false asumption that weed is legal in that country. It's not legal, but tolerated. The suppliers (the coffee shops) have to follow all kind of limiting requirements and currently the government is slowly closing the coffee shops. Last week, the coffee shops of Bergen Op Zoom and Roosendaal are closed permanently. The experiment that started in the 70ties failed.

The main goal of the experiment was lowering the criminal activity in this business and that one didn't work out.

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