Bullying, damaging or helpful?

[Huskvarneque]

The OP, I would have quoted if I were referring to anyone else. ^^;

Well I dun goof'd.

That.... dog scares me >.>"

[Huskvarneque]

You think i'm a sociopath? well ok, i see no problem with that if you wish to call me a sociopath well fine call me a sociopath if you wish. but just to see if i am a true socipath lest look at the medical definition of sociopath.

Antisocial personality disorder(sociopath)
It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:

1. Callous unconcern for the feelings of others
2. Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
3.Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them
4.Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
5.Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment.
6.Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society

well i admit i am pretty strongly # 1, depending on the circumstances #2 because if i do not agree with them and they go against my own i will generally not care to follow them, i am half of #3, and i am also half of #5. well i guess i am a sociopath...Yay?

Don't worry, being a Sociopath isn't all bad, in some cases it can be quite entertaining!!

[Ifreann]

If bullying is beneficial, then I propose we have teachers smack around every child, every day. Anyone who dies or is injured was obviously too weak, so whatevs.

[Ifreann]

If bullying is beneficial, then I propose we have teachers smack around every child, every day. Anyone who dies or is injured was obviously too weak, so whatevs.

I do think light capital punishment in the classroom was a good thing, but what you have suggested there is ludicrous, children are bullied by other children and that will always happen,

Maybe if we give up trying to stop it, but I don't see why it would be impossible if we actually tried.

but if kids learned that by getting stronger and standing up to their tormentors they could stop them, they would no doubt be better people because of it.

Then allow children to defend themselves, and stop the bullying when they've done so to a satisfactory degree. According to you we'd have a generation of badasses.

[Ifreann]

Your personal experience decisively proves that bullying is the fault of the bullied for inviting it. Just like those so-called "rape victim" sluts. Clap clap.

Rape toughens women up. Truefax.

[Ifreann]

Rape toughens women up. Truefax.

For goodness sake, I never talked about sexual abuse and I wouldn't like to because I haven't been sexually assaulted, but I have been bullied and it did made me stronger.

Sexual assault is not the same as school-yard bullying,

Probably better, if anything.

[Ifreann]

In that case, I much also be a sociopath as I fit into criteria #1, 3, 4 and 5.

Self diagnosis is a bad idea.

Especially on the internet.

[Ifreann]

Especially on the internet.

But it's so easy on the Internet.

Exactly. When you can do easily what a professional needs to study for years to do, you're doing it wrong or you're some kind of magical prodigy. Either way, you shouldn't be on the internet.

[Inuyashina]

Most of my intense bullying happened in elementary school. I was a dreamer and a hard-core book worm so a boy in my class I guess decided I made an easy target. He made fun of me and my weight, I was a heavy-set child but active. I remember one time he actually poked me in the stomach. I know it doesn't sound like much but to me it hurt. I don't remember much of my time there except that I did my best in the classes and avoided the boy whenever I could. He usually had a friend who back him up. I saw his friend a few times after elementary school but I got scared every time I did fearing he'd start up on me again.

In middle school, I tried to make friends and one day while me and my friend were in gym class walking the track we were ambushed by a group of girls who were after my friend and so held me back so I couldn't help her. Later I remember my friend had gotten a group of friends and I thought I was included but I began noticing things that didn't seem right. I ended up with gum in my hair one day while in french class, and I would come up to them while they were talking and when I got close they would stop talking.

In high school, I found it harder to make friends so I retreated inside as much as I could. Doing the classwork and homework and trying to get out of there as fast as I could. I was ignored most of the time and a part of me was fine with that, I delve deeper into my books.

In college I began making friends, not just appearance friends but real friends ones I thought I would never see. I tried out for a sorority but felt out of place among them. I found a group who accepted me whole-heartedly and protected me when a boy took my naivety and made advances as if to I don't know cause I somehow got him to stop before he did anything.

I think my main bully though might be my mom. I try more than I think should to gain her acceptance. I just can never do things right in her eyes. I clean my room and she say's its good could be better. I write a paper about stuff I'm passionate about and she doesn't think anything of it. I tell her what I wanna do with my life and she feels there are better prospects than what I want.

I'll never understand people who say emotional damage isn't a big deal. It's hurt me more than I could ever imagine. I hate feeling inferior and that what I do will never be good enough. That my dreams are just fantasies. That I break down and cry every time I open this door a little. Its not fair. I don't know what kind of person I would be if my life were different. I do know I'll never ever treat my kids this way. Its too cruel.

[Inuyashina]

Now, I'll say about my own experiences with bullying, as the victim.....that my parents-love them very much-often sent me mixed signals. My mom would simply offer a shoulder to cry on and plenty of band-aids when I was little....dad would force me to learn how to fight, which at age 8 was something I HATED doing. What I did learn from him also didn't help as I got older, as the black eye and slight concussion in 8th grade proved...elementary school counselors viewed me as a psycho 4th grader with issues, and junior high counselors didn't even want to see me out of fear they'd say something that would be misinterpreted by me and set me off. I pretty much had to do alot of the psychological and emotional healing on my own. Emotionally, I've healed pretty well...but psychologically...I'll always carry the scars of those years of bullying...and I'll likely always get fired up over anything I view as bullying, and express open hostility toward the unlucky offender.

My parents, my dad, mainly, was on my side during the school bullying. I don't know if he knows the extent of my mom's. Thing is I get along with my mom some of the time and some of the time I don't. My dad helped me a lot. He protected me when he could and talked to the grown-ups when I couldn't. I haven't told many people bout my bullying but I'm beginning to realize more and more that I need to to be able to move on. If I keep my emotions under lock and key, I'll never heal. I'll never be able to forget completely and I'll never be able to I guess love as much as I know I should be able to. I just need to find trust again. Trust in people. Trust in the goodness in people again like I use too.

[Ironmacedonia]

This question may seem to have an obvious answer, and I'm sure a lot of you will be quick to get on the moral high ground and say what any normal person would "Bullying is mentally damaging, physically damaging, dangerous..." and so on, however I pose another answer to this question, one that a lot of the victims of bullying would be appalled by.

I was bullied myself, in my younger years, but because we didn't have the internet to hide behind and insult each other over, it was often done face to face, and that gave the victim a chance to stand up for themselves. After about 6 years of putting up with it, and by the age of 12/13 I started lifting weights, using our gym, I took some self defence classes, and in about 4 years I had made the transition from the bullied little child, to the psychopath nobody dared touch, and I tell you my friends, the sense of achievement I got from it, well it made me want to walk over to my old bullies and shake their hands!

You see, I used to be quite the 'geek' and I found that when I grew stronger and was better able to defend myself, I felt far less worried about using my knowledge in the classroom, my marks increased, I got better CSE's and I did rather well when it came to higher education as well, and I genuinely thank the bullies that allowed me to stand up for myself and rise above them.

People might say that it would have been better if I was never bullied in the first place, but once again I disagree, not only is completely eliminating bullying near impossible, but I am glad I was shown the harsh realities of life as I left school far more prepared, if I had not been subject to seven or eight years of physical bullying, I would've left school a sheltered little child, unprepared for what life was to throw at me and I don't think I would be where I am now, in fact I don't even know if I'd be alive.

When I was in my early twenties, I had stayed the week in Cardiff and was on my way to catch a train home, it was late at night and I was on a secluded pathway when a youth, probably about 18 or 19, approached me from behind he must have hit me in the back of the head, as I stumbled forward only just managing to remain on my feet, I was about to strike back when I noticed he was holding a knife, I managed to grab his wrist and turn his arm violently back on itself, I don't know if I broke anything but the young man, if I remember correctly kicked back into my shin and I fell on the floor, he must have ran off because by the time I got back up, the youth was gone, the police never caught him and I can't remember what he looks like at all, but it was 20 odd years ago.

What I am saying it, if I had not been bullied, not taken self defence classes, not lifted weights, I highly doubt I would have been able to disarm that child and may possibly have been stabbed, it's a thought that makes me shudder, but also causes me to ask this question.

Bullying, damaging or helpful?

Ah perfect timing, finished writing this just as my takeaway arrived, I shall reply later.

[Ironmacedonia]

So you became a bit more confident? I don't think you really needed to be bullied for that.

That said I'm sure you work in mid-level management at best and this story is mostly a fantasy (a 12-13 year old doing weights you say?)

I'm rather insulted by that comment.

Yes, I remember quite clearly, my parents bought me a small set of dumbbells because they were also rather worried about my performance in school when I was around that age, I remember it because it was as I had just started secondary school and I was very concerned about my well being, I started with a small amount and eventually got better. This is why I make the point that I would not have started at such a young age if I was not forced to.

And not that it's any of your business but I work in a private security firm and I am very content with my position here.

[Ironmacedonia]

Congratulations on having been the exception, rather than the rule. However, you still need to learn that one person's experience is not sufficient evidence to overturn larger statistical examinations. Bullying sucks and does great harm.

I understand your reasoning entirely, but because bullying had no lasting adverse effects on me there is still a debate in this.

[Ironmacedonia]

"bullying turned me into a psychopath and that is why it is helpful"

no seriously that is literally what you just argued

please someone post the huge amounts of studies done on the extremly obvious fact that bullying stunts growth

Oh for goodness sake man. It was a manner of speech, personally I wouldn't have used that phrase either, but that is what my friends used to say to me, in jest of course, and I decided to use it to add a tinge of authenticity to the tale.

I don't care about the studies, I was not harmed by being bullied, in fact I believe it played an important part in the life I have today, so there is still a debate.

You know the Nazi's used to encourage fights in the Hitler Youth because it toughened the boys up for war, and if you look at how strong the SS were as an elite force, it might have done the trick!

[Ironmacedonia]

I was bullied too, and have completely moved on from it. But that wasn't thanks to the bullies. That was because I turned 'round and said, "I don't give one what you think of me, it only matters what I think." But it wasn't the bullies that did that. It was me. It shows strength of character to ignore and walk through it, but that doesn't make bullying helpful. There are too many victims.

Of course I don't thank the bullies for the self determination inside of me, but I do give them credit for providing me with a damn good incentive.

Besides, nowadays youths self harm because someone called their picture ugly on My Space or Face Book, I think back in my day kids were a lot more resilient.

[Ironmacedonia]

Anybody who thinks that bullying is helpful is likely a bully themselves.

I was never a bully, I never prayed on the weak and I find that a very terribly cowardly thing to do, I stood up to my bullies and stopped there.

[Ironmacedonia]

damaging.

overcoming damage means you were damaged.

But if you fix something damaged and it works better, does that not then outweigh the damage? It certainly did for me.

[Ironmacedonia]

I remember making this a few months ago.

Anyway its mentally, and emotionly, and a lot of the time psychically damaging. It sucks. It dose a lot. And once you snap and break one's nose they stop for a bit. Schools cant do a god damned thing to stop it

Funnily enough that was a turning point for me, I was shoved into a railing and it broke my nose, I must have tripped beforehand, but I told my parents I was running and I fell because I was too scared to incriminate the bully who had done it, it was when I got better that I realised the magnitude of the bullying, and how I had to stand up to them, so yes, I was damaged, the school back then took an irritatingly laissez faire attitude to bullying, giving the perpetrator a scolding and sending him on his way, my parents were concerned but unsure of what to do so it was mainly up to me. I fixed myself, and I made myself better, now if I can do that why can other people not? I don't consider myself superior to other people, but nowadays, children especially, seem to rely on the school or the parents to deal with bullies, and I think the next generation will be weaker for it.

[Ironmacedonia]

I understand your reasoning entirely, but because bullying had no lasting adverse effects on me there is still a debate in this.

What part of "exception to the norm" do you not understand?

What on earth are you talking about, I addressed that issue by saying that one exception can allow for much debate over the matter, besides I don't think it's just me that has managed to gain a positive outcome from bullying.

[Ironmacedonia]

Wow, if this isn't a case of Stockholm syndrome, I don't know what is (and no anarchists, us statists don't have this because we are the state).

Stockholm syndrome is feeling compassion for a captor or feeling reminiscent of ones time in captivity, it is not accepting the fact that if I had not been bullied I might not be where I am today, so I suppose in answer to your question, it must be the latter.

Before criticising another on their ability to read, make sure you know how to use correct grammar "Did getting bullied damaged your ability to read?" glazing over the fact that this comment bears no relevance to the comment I made, it's quite ironic how you managed to make a sentence criticising another's intellect sound so idiotic.

And you are the type of child I referred to earlier, you can't deal with it.

[Ironmacedonia]

What on earth are you talking about, I addressed that issue by saying that one exception can allow for much debate over the matter, besides I don't think it's just me that has managed to gain a positive outcome from bullying.

So if something is good for a minority of people, we should continue doing it and it's helpful.

There's no debate that war is good, even if it produced some of the best writers and scientists in the world. There's no debate that what Genghis Khan did wasn't horrific, even if he established the Silk Road. There's no fucking debate about any of these things and there should not be a debate on whether bullying is good or not.

Can you please refrain from overusing profanity to such an extent.

There is debate about anything that cannot be proven for goodness sake, and because bullying had had a positive effect on me, it is up for debate, if you don't want to participate, that's up to you, but if you are going to participate, get your facts right and stop being so bloody obnoxious.

[Ironmacedonia]

Of course I don't thank the bullies for the self determination inside of me, but I do give them credit for providing me with a damn good incentive.

Besides, nowadays youths self harm because someone called their picture ugly on My Space or Face Book, I think back in my day kids were a lot more resilient.

I read on a cracked article once that people are actually psychologically programmed to think of the past better than the present. Back in "your time" (time can't be possesed by anyone as it is an abstract concept ) kids would probably cry when a kid called them a doo-doo head

I think that's called nostalgia my friend, and yes I know, that's why a lot of people from the former DDR have spouts of "ostalgie" a mixture of the German word for 'east' and 'nostalgia', they forget the Stasi, food shortages, the wall, the corruption, and they remember simpler things such as the food, the community and the atmosphere.

I do hate it when people take manners of speech and old fashioned sayings literally, one might say "I went our earlier and it was raining bloody cats and dogs" in wet weather, but you sound like the type of person to tell of it's impossibility. No I don't mean I literally possessed a day, I mean when I was going through the same as the youths today are.

[Ironmacedonia]

What on earth are you talking about, I addressed that issue by saying that one exception can allow for much debate over the matter,

Nope. An overall pattern is still an overall pattern, a single exception does not change that at all. Until such "exceptions"represent more occurrences than the pattern, the rule still holds.

besides I don't think it's just me that has managed to gain a positive outcome from bullying.

That's spiffy. It doesn't change the fact that the negative outcomes outweigh them by far.

LISTEN TO ME.

I am not saying I KNOW bullying is good for people, I am putting the notion out there for debate, and no matter what you say, it had a positive outcome in my instance so it is still debatable, negative outcomes might outweigh the positive, but because there are positive outcomes, it means there is no definite answer.

[Ironmacedonia]

I agree completely with the OP.
Bullying makes us stronger. Attempting to stop bullying will only make children less tough, which will increase the suicide rate when kids finally are confronted with the reality of bullying. Bullying is actually decreasing currently, but bullying-related suicides are going up. I think that has to do with the fact that schools are continually wussifying children. I hate to sound like a social darwinist, but it should be about survival of the fittest. Attempts to interefere with survival of the fittest is interefering with the laws of nature. And bullying is, and should be protected by the first amendment (physical bullying isn't, however)
btw, I was bullied as a kid. I got stronger. Then I beat the bullies up. Nobody ever layed a hand on me after that.
Point is, I got to learn a lesson, and I became stronger

Exactly, parent and teacher intervention is simply sheltering the child from the harsh realities of life that they are sure to face, if I could take back the years I was bullied, beaten up and laughed at, I wouldn't because it made me a stronger person.

[Ironmacedonia]

I was bullied for the past several years, although it was mostly verbally and psychologically. It was excruciating. Several times I reached my breaking point and ended up hitting people. I've since found better ways to manage myself - generally involving shooting things on the Wii - but I believe that it has had long-lasting or even permanent effects on my social skills and psyche. For example, it's Easter, and rather than going to some church type thing with my family and talking to other people, I'm sitting here in my basement, watching an episode of Star Trek on Netflix, drinking a two liter bottle of Mountain Dew and posting on a thread on the Internet. I had friends before. Now I have one. I've been outside four times in the past week. I used to go outside every day. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the bullying psychologically ripped me to pieces, then put me back together in a very different - and in my opinion, much worse - way.
To all of you people who say that bullying is good, you make me sick. It is not possible to put into words how much you disgust me.

Well I managed, perhaps you just couldn't hack it.

I don't care about your personal stories because I know them all, I went through it and I stood up, just because you laid down and took it doesn't mean I'm wrong.