Bullying, damaging or helpful?

[Holy Trek]

Only if you wanna become a paranoid, anti-social psychopath who enjoys being a bully himself

Well, that's one outcome. Another outcome is that the bullied individual deals with the bullying on their own terms and learns how to avoid a similar situation again.

Nice try, Freud...but that doesn't provide much comfort to the people who've been victimized by bullies. If I wanted 'physical' help, I would go to a gym, not look for the schoolyard bully and ask him to beat me up so I can become a strong man.

[Holy Trek]

So let me get this straight....I made A-B honor roll in 2nd grade.....I had high grades in history and science....I like sci-fi and video games....so because of that, I'm weird and deserved to be bullied??

You probably committed some social taboo, don't rack you brain over what it was, it doesn't matter now.

SINCE WHEN WAS HAVING A-B HONOR ROLL IN SECOND GRADE AND HAVING HIGH GRADES IN HISTORY AND SCIENCE IN HIGH SCHOOL SOME TABOO? I was just like any other kid growing up. Yea, I had my goofy moments, but were I viewing those from another point of view, I wouldn't start bullying the person over them, cuz I'm likely to make the same lame-brain mistake.

[Holy Trek]

Off topic, both of you. Reel it in before the mods shut this down.

Isn't he flame baiting ? [Kazorgkai]. Saying those that killed themselves are wealkings and pitiful when another user posted how they lost 12 friends to bullying.

It's flame-baiting in my book. It also shows how damaged he's become thanks to the bullying he suffered.

[Holy Trek]

Most of my intense bullying happened in elementary school. I was a dreamer and a hard-core book worm so a boy in my class I guess decided I made an easy target. He made fun of me and my weight, I was a heavy-set child but active. I remember one time he actually poked me in the stomach. I know it doesn't sound like much but to me it hurt. I don't remember much of my time there except that I did my best in the classes and avoided the boy whenever I could. He usually had a friend who back him up. I saw his friend a few times after elementary school but I got scared every time I did fearing he'd start up on me again.

In middle school, I tried to make friends and one day while me and my friend were in gym class walking the track we were ambushed by a group of girls who were after my friend and so held me back so I couldn't help her. Later I remember my friend had gotten a group of friends and I thought I was included but I began noticing things that didn't seem right. I ended up with gum in my hair one day while in french class, and I would come up to them while they were talking and when I got close they would stop talking.

In high school, I found it harder to make friends so I retreated inside as much as I could. Doing the classwork and homework and trying to get out of there as fast as I could. I was ignored most of the time and a part of me was fine with that, I delve deeper into my books.

In college I began making friends, not just appearance friends but real friends ones I thought I would never see. I tried out for a sorority but felt out of place among them. I found a group who accepted me whole-heartedly and protected me when a boy took my naivety and made advances as if to I don't know cause I somehow got him to stop before he did anything.

I think my main bully though might be my mom. I try more than I think should to gain her acceptance. I just can never do things right in her eyes. I clean my room and she say's its good could be better. I write a paper about stuff I'm passionate about and she doesn't think anything of it. I tell her what I wanna do with my life and she feels there are better prospects than what I want.

I'll never understand people who say emotional damage isn't a big deal. It's hurt me more than I could ever imagine. I hate feeling inferior and that what I do will never be good enough. That my dreams are just fantasies. That I break down and cry every time I open this door a little. Its not fair. I don't know what kind of person I would be if my life were different. I do know I'll never ever treat my kids this way. Its too cruel.

And just for the record, among the friends she made in college.....was me. We went to the same college, and that's in fact how we fell in love. Now, she's my fiancee.

[Holy Trek]

Yeah, it does. It hurts. And you become a hell of a lot better of a person for it. Don't get me wrong, It is terrible, But what you gain from it is far more valuable than smashed feelings, bruises, blood, and gaining the status as a social pariah.

What "I gained" from being Bullied:

1. Concussions (2): One from a cricket bat to the head, one from being pushed down some stairs.
2. Broken Bones (4): Ankle and leg from being pushed down some stairs. Nose, twice.
3. Weight Loss: from a healthy weight down to 5 and a half stone as a 16 year old.
4. Paranoia: to the point where I thought my entire family was helping those who were bullying me.
5. Addictions (2): To painkillers and sleeping pills.
6. Illnesses (2): Insomnia and Bulimia
7. Suicide Attempts (2): One in 2008 and another in 2011, caused by the mental problems arising from some of the above.
8. Character flaws: too many to list but including a crushing sense of low self-worth, tendency to sabotage any kind of relationship I have, cynicism, paranoia, scepticism.

Clearly I gained a lot from 3 years of hell.

I sympathize. Following up on your post, which I'm quoting from...and keeping to Foguk's very damaged mindset, here's what I 'gained' from all the years of bullying:
1) I concussion and a massive lump on my head from being pushed hard enough to hit solid concrete
2) Uncountable bruises on my legs and arms, from the punches I was 'given' by my 'very friendly' bullies.
3) Years of shame and guilt and self-blame which I've only recently, and very slowly, recovered from.
4) a hair-trigger temper
5) Poor averages in school from 3rd grade through college.
6) One black eye from standing up to a bully
7) A suspicious nature which STILL exists today

Summary: I'm NOT a better person for all that, so Foguk either needs to just admit he's been damaged by bullying, or STFU

[Holy Trek]

Bullying makes me fucking sick. Too many people have been driven to suicide because of it, and it leaves too many fucking emotional scars.

It promotes hate, ignorance, and intolerance. It encourages division instead of unity. Separation instead of integration.

To those who say that the victims need to 'toughen up', I can tell that you've never been bullied, or known somebody who has, and I dare you to tell that to the family of anybody who has killed themselves because of it. I double dare you to do it, and see what happens. I assure you that you won't enjoy it a single fucking bit.

I'll take that challenge one step further.....I TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU to tell all those who even now have to seek counselors as a result of years of bullying to "toughen up". I can promise you this.....you won't enjoy the reaction you get from them.

[Holy Trek]

I'd like to share my opinion, especially since most of the anecdotes we've heard so far were from victims (who either "toughened up" or didn't). I think it might add a lot to the conversation if you heard from somebody who himself used to be a bully.

First, let me say that I was a bully until I was 12 or 13, and that I sincerely regret doing what I did. If I met the people who I used to push around, I doubt I'd even muster up the courage to apologize and ask for their forgiveness. In the beginning, I enjoyed bullying because it gave me a sense of power and dominance over people who I perceived as "weaker." However, over time, I realized how ridiculous I was being. Bullying is all about establishing your place in a social hierarchy through violence and psychological warfare.

For those of you who argue that being a victim of bullying "toughens people up," let me say that it doesn't. People react in one of two ways: they escalate or they defer. They don't "toughen up." Bullying is a relentless assault -- 24/7/365 -- of warfare. There's no evading it. It is a form of propaganda intended to strip a person of their power, self-esteem, and willpower. Some, such as the OP, "escalate," and respond by attempting a hard show of toughness. As a bully, I never took this as a sign to "stay away," it merely meant that I needed to get a few of my friends, and pound my victim into the ground until he got the message -- "I can do anything I want to you, and nothing you do will change that." The only form of escalation that would've stopped me at that age was if somebody got fed up with me, got a gun, and killed me, a la Columbine. And deferring isn't much better -- it's a show of what I perceived as weakness. In essence, whatever people did was merely an invitation to continue. The ones who "got tougher" were the just the uncooperative ones who needed extra attention.

If you still think you "toughened up" because of your bullies, or if you view victims of bullying as sissies or weaklings, let me say that everybody has a breaking point. A threshold where they simply can't take it anymore. If your bully never managed to push you to that point, good for you. Consider yourself lucky. But don't lie to yourself. Everybody has buttons that can be pushed, and, if you think you "toughened up," then that just means that whoever bullied you either didn't push the right buttons, or didn't push them hard enough. Being a victim of bullying is like being a victim of the Holocaust -- you're either a survivor or a casualty. Nobody got "tougher" because they were in a concentration camp.

Finally, there is no such thing as bullying "improving self-esteem" or "preparing you for harsh realities." Self-esteem is achieved through success, and preparation for reality is achieved through failure. True, constant success leads to over-confidence, which will rock you when you finally fail. On the other hand, constant failure makes people feel helpless. Bullying is an attempt at sabotaging an individual's psychology, making every failure and shortcoming seem insurmountable, while undermining every meager victory. As somebody who has tutored, coached, and counseled both peers and youth, I can tell from firsthand experience: If you want to build a successful person, you don't bully them. You encourage them to rise to challenges, learn from their failures, and show them that victory is an attainable goal. Bullying does not do this -- it merely oppresses, robs, and breaks. It does not "push" you, but, rather, it "pushes around."

If you are currently a victim of bullying or have been bullied, please feel free to send me a PM/Telegram, or to open up to an understanding friend. There is no shame, disgrace, or weakness in seeking solace, sanctuary, protection, or sympathy from something this serious. If you approach me as a victim of bullying seeking help, I will respect your privacy and your situation, and offer you my wholehearted support.

I for one want to applaud you for coming out and admitting that you used to practice bullying, and that you came to the realization that it hurt the people you did bully, and that made you change your ways and hence become a better person. I'll honestly say that you just earned my respect for what you just did here. Also, the fact that a former bully has posted here and took a stand against those who make the false claim that they were improved thanks to bullying has been noted by me. Thank you

[Holy Trek]

I'll take that challenge one step further.....I TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU to tell all those who even now have to seek counselors as a result of years of bullying to "toughen up". I can promise you this.....you won't enjoy the reaction you get from them.

I would fall into that category, and if somebody ever says that to my face....

Don't look at me....I'm in your corner. I haven't had to see counselors, but I have sympathy for those that have.

[Holy Trek]

Now, I'll say about my own experiences with bullying, as the victim.....that my parents-love them very much-often sent me mixed signals. My mom would simply offer a shoulder to cry on and plenty of band-aids when I was little....dad would force me to learn how to fight, which at age 8 was something I HATED doing. What I did learn from him also didn't help as I got older, as the black eye and slight concussion in 8th grade proved...elementary school counselors viewed me as a psycho 4th grader with issues, and junior high counselors didn't even want to see me out of fear they'd say something that would be misinterpreted by me and set me off. I pretty much had to do alot of the psychological and emotional healing on my own. Emotionally, I've healed pretty well...but psychologically...I'll always carry the scars of those years of bullying...and I'll likely always get fired up over anything I view as bullying, and express open hostility toward the unlucky offender.

[Holy Trek]

You sound like a BAMF, bro. Perhaps you've psychologically damaged yourself through your own bullying...

Who?

[Holy Trek]

Now, I'll say about my own experiences with bullying, as the victim.....that my parents-love them very much-often sent me mixed signals. My mom would simply offer a shoulder to cry on and plenty of band-aids when I was little....dad would force me to learn how to fight, which at age 8 was something I HATED doing. What I did learn from him also didn't help as I got older, as the black eye and slight concussion in 8th grade proved...elementary school counselors viewed me as a psycho 4th grader with issues, and junior high counselors didn't even want to see me out of fear they'd say something that would be misinterpreted by me and set me off. I pretty much had to do alot of the psychological and emotional healing on my own. Emotionally, I've healed pretty well...but psychologically...I'll always carry the scars of those years of bullying...and I'll likely always get fired up over anything I view as bullying, and express open hostility toward the unlucky offender.

My parents, my dad, mainly, was on my side during the school bullying. I don't know if he knows the extent of my mom's. Thing is I get along with my mom some of the time and some of the time I don't. My dad helped me a lot. He protected me when he could and talked to the grown-ups when I couldn't. I haven't told many people bout my bullying but I'm beginning to realize more and more that I need to to be able to move on. If I keep my emotions under lock and key, I'll never heal. I'll never be able to forget completely and I'll never be able to I guess love as much as I know I should be able to. I just need to find trust again. Trust in people. Trust in the goodness in people again like I use too.

I have to believe that the first step to truly heal the wounds left by bullying is to share my experience with others. Like Rebecca said, if I keep it bottled in, I'll never fully heal....though in my case, I might not ever get the confidence I enjoyed in 1st and 2nd grade back.

[Holy Trek]

When I saw people getting constantly physically bullied, I would always befriend them and protect them. Needless to say, they didn't get bullied much after that.

I don't care much for verbal bullying, though. Anyone who can't take words on the chin is not ready for the world yet. And god forbid they ever use the internet. Words cannot hurt, I have been called many "hurtful" things throughout my lifetime, but it doesn't matter, because I realise that words cannot damage me.

Physical bullying does hurt;
Words do not.

Tell me more about your psychology degrees?

DANG....I gotta give you credit, PJ. You, sir, have guts. Plus you're more nicer than I would've been.

[Holy Trek]

And we have been saying to you that your personal anecdote, although 'compelling' to you, is not a sustainable claim. You said words can't hurt, and the truth is that yes, they do and their effects are lasting. Being 'weak' or 'strong' isn't either a proper way to categorize since it is well known that anyone can be a victim of bullying. Peer reviewed articles and studies stand as background, solid, for that.

I already admitted my first position on "words cannot hurt" is wrong.

Yes, anyone can be a victim of bullying. Strong and weak people can be victims. The strong people deal with it and take it on the chin, the weak people either become stronger or stay weak and let it get to them.

HOLD ON A MINUTE.....you saying I "let it get to me"? Cause let me tell YOU something, chief......I didn't let SH*T get to me. I tried to push it aside and move on with my life. I tried to ignore it, I even tried fighting back against it. I NEVER "let it get to me", but I was overwhelmed by it to such an extent that it altered how I interact with people, even now.

[Holy Trek]

Would you please explain how this causes kids who don't even know what capitalism is to become bullies?

Capitalism is a dog-eat dog type of society. Kids are raised with consumerism and pretty much taught from a young age that if you're not the best you're screwed. This prompts some kids to try to become the best through various means. Some are nice, some are popular, some bully and make everyone fear them. Essentially bullying is a from of politics for children. At the time that bully seems tough, but once you get to high school hardly anyone remembers and/or cares about them. Same goes with politicians over the years.

SERIOUSLY?!? WHO ARE YOU KIDDING?? Kids, at such young ages, know nothing of what capitalism is. They don't learn that until high school, so while your argument would make sense when talking about 16-18 year olds...how the FRAK does it measure up to kids 5-8 years old?

[Holy Trek]

Bullying is neither damaging or helpful. It's the real world. Do you think your boss is going to water down what they say to you? Not if you want a serious job. Sure school isn't the real world and drama spreads like crazy and stupid things happen but bullying isn't the problem, oversensitivity is. That and kids can't deal with it anymore, back in my day you just pulled a Columbine and never got bullied again.

Ok...this will likely get the mods' attention, but I have to say it.....WHAT THE F*CK?!?

[Holy Trek]

We live in a culture dominated by women. A culture where being a grown man watching shows made for 8 year old little girls is acceptable in some circles. More than 70% of teachers are female. Those females are in position of power, and have become many of our role models rather than men also not forgetting that many young men are raised by single mothers. The real problem here I believe is not with bullying, but with feminization of males. Which is a symptom of our increasingly liberal for lack of a better word society.

1. We have people like you on the internet whining like 5 year old boys about others liking a show. A culture like this is going to grow full of assholes who are sexist and full of bigotry. So women teach more, and? I don't see the negativity here. Being raised by a single mother of course affects you, but until you show that it makes the child more feminine, this point is useless. "Feminization of males" is one of the most sexist phrases I have ever seen.

A man needs to defend himself, and to stand up for himself against bullies. When some one disrespects his honor a man should raise to the occasion fully prepared to fight. How can he though learn these skills from a female? Most females are compassionate and caring. Rarely do females concern themselves with the testosterone driven behaviors of men.

LOL, you think fighting solves bullying effectively. Yeah, this post is a joke.

We are told "be nice" when it is to no consequence of ourselves. Then when we're defending our honor or defending ourselves on the playground we are punished. What were these fists made for if not the defense of honor and self? These manly fists.

Our fists were made so that we could hold stuff. You must have the education of a 2 year old.

The biggest criminal here through all of this though is public schooling. It forces children into school regardless of their whims. It oppresses and neuters many young men. I wish for boys to some day work besides other men, and to be influenced by and develop male role models.

Boys DO have male role models. By the way, more sexism.

[Holy Trek]

I honestly think people who complain about bullying are just a part of this age were everyone wants to be the victim and pitied. Everyone these days is out to get attention and being a victim is an easy, quick way to get that attention.

Then again this is coming from the dictator who sacrifices his people's first born children to calm a ravage, interstellar, world eating kite that lives in space and travels between dimensions.
Then again who wants to take the risk of being eaten by an interstellar kite?

Signed,
High Father CAPRAE

YOU THINK I WAS BULLIED SO I COULD GET SYMPATHY AND PITY?! YOU THINK I WANTED TO BE A VICTIM?!? I'm glad you don't live close to me, otherwise I'd show you how much 'pity' I'd want from the likes of you. To even suggest that many people who've posted as victims of bullying are looking for pity is an insult to them, and I, for one, won't take the insult lightly.

[Holy Trek]

Sexism and bigotry don't really matter when you're dealing with members of a certain group who have a disposition towards acting a certain way. I don't know exactly know who men choose as their role models, but Gordon Ramsay or some one along the lines of George Washington would be a great start. Men who are mostly successful, hardworking and influential.

Yes it does. So far you've

1. Implied that there are no successful and hardworking women. Otherwise why the hell would it matter if they choose a woman or a man as a role model?
2. Said that the feminization of boys is a problem, when it's not.
3. Implied that using violence against a bully is the best way to solve the problem.

Depends on the circumstance.

Let's see how that works out for the students who implement this.

I can already tell you how it worked out.....IT DIDN'T. I got a black eye for three weeks after standing up to a bully....he wasn't even bruised.

[Holy Trek]

It's true, look at how bullying has risen in importance in the media with the lack of school shootings. How much was bullying brought up in the early 90's? Compare that to the early 2000's. Bulling became bigger because of lack of deterrence. Simple concept.

If massacres are your idea of "deterrence," then I don't know what your major malfunction is. Furthermore, school shootings weren't nearly commonplace enough to act as a deterrent in the first place. They made the news, which milked it for a couple of weeks, then people basically casually forgot aside from those towns.

Oh yeah, and about that "pulled a Columbine" idiocy, the shooters ended up dead. Yeah, they didn't get bullied again, but for a rather unacceptable reason.

THANK YOU for setting that guy straight. I was actually gonna bring that little bit of trivia up, as he seems to have forgotten that little info.

[Holy Trek]

That's not "bullying" as we're defining it here. Everyone gets teased, and everyone occasionally gets into spats with other people. That's not the issue.

The kind of bullying we're talking about is a completely one-sided campaign of psychological abuse. Two people who both hate each other and each give as well as they get are not "bullying" each other. A bully has power over the victim in some way or another that the victim cannot compensate for to fight him on equal terms.

In the situation you described, I never understand why the victim doesn't adjust themselves to make themselves less vulnerable to a psychological abuse. They can laugh at the bully's jest and then say something equally hurtful back (yeah I know it's vicious, but it works), Let's say the person is fitting the stereotype of a "nerd" or "geek" they can try to be more social and garner more friends and support in another way (joining a sports team). The victim doesn't necessarily need to fight back to the bully directly, they only need to adjust the balances of social power so that the bully can move onto "weaker prey" (also sounds really bad, but in my experience this method works best).

I call BS....and here's why...
I only showed interest in sports ONCE.....back in junior high, I tried out for basketball. I was all set to get into sports until I learned the cost in equipment, uniforms, and travel fees my parents would have to incur just so I could play. I backed out of it right then. Now, during that 6 week period in which I tried out, nothing changed. I was STILL being bullied. So, "adjusting the balances of social power" did nothing for me. THAT is why I call BS on your statement.

[Horsefish]

I see, so other people's personal stories don't matter, but yours does. Interesting that.

I can see how he thinks it is open to debate now.

It's a fucking absurd idea-being bullied isn't something good and being proud of being a 'psychopath' shows some deep-rooted issues.

[Horsefish]

What? I know. Kill them if they can't do their times tables haha!

But yes, apologies, slip of the finger.

But I always thought the threat of the slipper helped me a great deal in my education.

Psychologists and people who base their views on evidence seem to disagree. Shame that, I'm sure teachers would enjoy being able to assault small children.... it might lose it's effectivness when the child is big enough to fight back though.

[Horsefish]

I was bullied and I ended up largely isolated and with few friends, and I stopped talking. It was certainly damaging to me.

It turned me into a right little cunt. It took falling out with all my good friends for me to actully become a normal functional human being.

[Huskvarneque]

Well, apparently in your case the bulling helped shape who you are, and in a sorta positive way. It's possible, but just not entirely expected. I can understand the "becoming the feared psychopath" part though, that's about what happened to me when I was still in middle school, and now it still carries on through my high school life. No one wants to bother messing with me because they think I have no care for their life, thus I won't feel bad for hurting them, and of course I would never do such things, as I've never got into a fight, but they still believe so and I'm left alone. While though being alone is good at times, it also adds to the anti-social behavior, and growing that sort of mind is bad for any situation since we live in such a tight nit society where you simply can't live that way.

[Huskvarneque]

Well, apparently in your case the bulling helped shape who you are, and in a sorta positive way. It's possible, but just not entirely expected. I can understand the "becoming the feared psychopath" part though, that's about what happened to me when I was still in middle school, and now it still carries on through my high school life. No one wants to bother messing with me because they think I have no care for their life, thus I won't feel bad for hurting them, and of course I would never do such things, as I've never got into a fight, but they still believe so and I'm left alone. While though being alone is good at times, it also adds to the anti-social behavior, and growing that sort of mind is bad for any situation since we live in such a tight nit society where you simply can't live that way.

Is this addressed to me or the guy a post or two above me?

The OP, I would have quoted if I were referring to anyone else. ^^;